i agree with the sarcasm here, i mean if we could all aford the P2W prices then the people who take advantage of them would be complaining that they dont fill more powerfull then others.
I don't think "afford" is the core of the problem here.
In my own case I enjoy improving my character and if I just could buy a character with full gear I would tire of the game in a day no matter how great it is.
I just don't see the point of playing in the long run if putting real money into the game is the purpose of the game, the is no challenge in that.
But you are surely right that the people who do enjoy beating up other players with bought gear probably prefer that the gear is so expensive that just a select few can afford it, the question is just why the majority of the players would bother to playoh i agree with you here, i was just simply going for the low hanging fruit
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
And that's a good reason why I prefer P2P and everyone has equal opportunity within the game.
Everyone has equal opportunity in a p2w game. Your dollar is as mighty as mine. Equal opportunity is not an argument against p2w .. you can argue you don't like it ... which is your prerogative.
But it is as fair as opportunities costing time.
yeah because everyone has the same amount of money, amirite?
well, not everyone has the same amount of time .. so yeah .. it is as fair as time.
Originally posted by iridescence And that's a good reason why I prefer P2P and everyone has equal opportunity within the game.
Everyone has equal opportunity in a p2w game. Your dollar is as mighty as mine. Equal opportunity is not an argument against p2w .. you can argue you don't like it ... which is your prerogative.
But it is as fair as opportunities costing time.
yeah because everyone has the same amount of money, amirite?
well, not everyone has the same amount of time .. so yeah .. it is as fair as time.
So, do you have "less" or "more" than the usual 24 hours in a day?
On the flip side, do you have "more" or "less" than 500k in terms of money? (You really don't have to answer that, for I don't care. I made that comment to make a point, only.)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by iridescence And that's a good reason why I prefer P2P and everyone has equal opportunity within the game.
Everyone has equal opportunity in a p2w game. Your dollar is as mighty as mine. Equal opportunity is not an argument against p2w .. you can argue you don't like it ... which is your prerogative.
But it is as fair as opportunities costing time.
yeah because everyone has the same amount of money, amirite?
well, not everyone has the same amount of time .. so yeah .. it is as fair as time.
So, do you have "less" or "more" than the usual 24 hours in a day?
On the flip side, do you have "more" or "less" than 500k in terms of money? (You really don't have to answer that, for I don't care. I made that comment to make a point, only.)
I have less than 24 hours a day to play games because a) i have a job, and b) i have to sleep 8 hours a day. Other people may vary.
Don't tell me everyone has the same amount of leisure time to play games. If you say that, i would say everyone has the same opportunity and time to make money.
I like exclusive content in moderation. That guy that spent an extra 100 bucks on the collectors edition deserves some one-time benefits for supporting the game. However, I dislike cash shops driven games that are constantly rolling out more and more exclusive perks, items, and benefits.
I have less than 24 hours a day to play games because a) i have a job, and b) i have to sleep 8 hours a day. Other people may vary.
Don't tell me everyone has the same amount of leisure time to play games. If you say that, i would say everyone has the same opportunity and time to make money.
You still have the time though. You just use it differently. It's different from a person literally not having the money to compete in P2W. Many hobbies take lots of time if you really want to be the good at whatever it is. Paying money for cool stuff in a game is like paying some guy to pretend he's you and play the guitar because you don't have time to practice and get good yourself - kind of pathetic and pointless in my opinion.
Anyway, if you want to play games where the point is to just show off how much money you have knock yourself out. I don't consider that much of a game and won't touch them.
I have less than 24 hours a day to play games because a) i have a job, and b) i have to sleep 8 hours a day. Other people may vary.
Don't tell me everyone has the same amount of leisure time to play games. If you say that, i would say everyone has the same opportunity and time to make money.
You still have the time though. You just use it differently. It's different from a person literally not having the money to compete in P2W. Many hobbies take lots of time if you really want to be the good at whatever it is. Paying money for cool stuff in a game is like paying some guy to pretend he's you and play the guitar because you don't have time to practice and get good yourself - kind of pathetic and pointless in my opinion.
Anyway, if you want to play games where the point is to just show off how much money you have knock yourself out. I don't consider that much of a game and won't touch them.
Well that is the point of most MMOs. It is more important in some than others, but overall, it shows up in just about every MMO.
Originally posted by iridescenceAnd that's a good reason why I prefer P2P and everyone has equal opportunity within the game.
Everyone has equal opportunity in a p2w game. Your dollar is as mighty as mine. Equal opportunity is not an argument against p2w .. you can argue you don't like it ... which is your prerogative.But it is as fair as opportunities costing time.
yeah because everyone has the same amount of money, amirite?
well, not everyone has the same amount of time .. so yeah .. it is as fair as time.
So, do you have "less" or "more" than the usual 24 hours in a day?On the flip side, do you have "more" or "less" than 500k in terms of money? (You really don't have to answer that, for I don't care. I made that comment to make a point, only.)
I have less than 24 hours a day to play games because a) i have a job, and b) i have to sleep 8 hours a day. Other people may vary.Don't tell me everyone has the same amount of leisure time to play games. If you say that, i would say everyone has the same opportunity and time to make money.
I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Really? Anyone can be anything? Even the one-armed baseball player? The blind bus driver? The poor white boy with mediocre grades that can not get into a university because he is just not as smart as other college applicants? (He is not a minority or a woman, so he gets no "special interest group" help.) The Doctor who gets sick at the sight of blood? I am sorry, but what dreamworld do *you* live in?
And here comes the kicker. If a person does not have the means to buy a Ferrari, they don't. They DON'T buy that multi-million dollar mansion. Yet over and over, people WITHOUT the leisure time demand to be accounted for in video games, even when they rarely spend money on them, MMO-wise. THAT is the difference here...
MONEY is the currency of the real world. TIME is the currency of video games. If I don't have the money for real world things, I DON'T buy them. I also don't bitch about NOT having those items. If *you* don't have the time for video games, DON'T play them. Or, play them when you can and stop bitching about not having time.
EVERYONE has 24 hours in every day. The difference is how they choose to spend those hours. If you want to play a video game, but NOT spend the time to do so, don't expect the same experience as someone who DOES decide to make the time to "play."
Keep your "leisure time" crap out of it. You have the leisure time available to you that *you* choose to make available.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
The only time exclusive content makes me angry is when I want it.
I don't EVER EVER EVER want to be an Imperial. If the game makers PAID ME to play as an imperial I would middle finger them. But there was some Forgotten Realms based game which name I've forgotten that was selling VIP packs with drow and spider mounts - EXCLUSIVELY. Like I said, I don't even remember that game's name nor will I ever try to find out let alone play it. Stricken from the records because they offended me.
If I'm going play some wizard's of the coast approved mmo I had better be allowed EVERYTHING drow at regular price!
I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
Off the top of my head, Retirees, Pensioners, Disabled people, Non-Working Spouses, People living with others as a Dependent. Are those rare enough for you?
- When you go out go to a bar, that is time *you* choose to spend that way. - When you choose to go to a gym, that is time *you* choose to spend that way. - If *you* choose to make XXX amount of money and to do so, you have to work 80 hour weeks, that is *your* choice in how to spend your time. It is not that you "have" to work, but rather a choice in "how much" do you want to make.
Choices. Most of us have them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
Off the top of my head, Retirees, Pensioners, Disabled people, Non-Working Spouses, People living with others as a Dependent. Are those rare enough for you?
In fact, you just made my point ....
non-working people have an "unfair" advantage over working people, not unlike rich have an advantage over poor ones.
So yeah ... i think using money is as fair as using time, as a measure of power.
And oh .. they don't play 24/7 .. they need to sleep, particularly the old ones. So both of my points are valid.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
Off the top of my head, Retirees, Pensioners, Disabled people, Non-Working Spouses, People living with others as a Dependent. Are those rare enough for you?
In fact, you just made my point ....
non-working people have an "unfair" advantage over working people, not unlike rich have an advantage over poor ones.
So yeah ... i think using money is as fair as using time, as a measure of power.
And oh .. they don't play 24/7 .. they need to sleep, particularly the old ones. So both of my points are valid.
I would ask you a few questions.
If you choose that gaming is not important to you and you would rather spend your time making money, hanging out with friends, or whatever else you deem to be time better spent then why are you playing a game that takes a lot of time at all? There are many games out there that are not computer/video games that you can't compete in. There are board games, sports, art contests, etc. Would you like it if someone paid their way to victory, paid for an advantage, or paid for a third prize award? If someone decides they are going to dedicate themselves to spending hours on a game by making real life sacrifices perhaps they deserve to have more than just someone coming in and buying their way to the top. It devalues both the point of playing the game an the achievement of doing well or just having something meaningful out of the time you invested. The mechanics of MMOs today devalue their feeling of being worthwhile to play or investing time into them. I know some people will jump in and say that MMOs are just a game and you shouldn't take them so seriously. Spend time on something else. To that I say MMOs are a game like any other in life. It has as much meaning as you are willing to give it.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky I did not ask for "leisure time", did I? You said nothing about "leisure time" in your original post about "time" (underlined for your convenience). Now, you want to qualify it?
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
Off the top of my head, Retirees, Pensioners, Disabled people, Non-Working Spouses, People living with others as a Dependent. Are those rare enough for you?
In fact, you just made my point ....
non-working people have an "unfair" advantage over working people, not unlike rich have an advantage over poor ones.
So yeah ... i think using money is as fair as using time, as a measure of power.
And oh .. they don't play 24/7 .. they need to sleep, particularly the old ones. So both of my points are valid.
You are correct, of course, I am fairly certain that NOBODY can play 24/7. They have to eat, sleep, and empty their bowels and bladders.
However, the people I listed DO have time to spend in video games, maybe NOT 24/7, but more than someone else may.
So, what was your point again? Everyone can be a multi-millionaire? I see you totally neglected THAT part of my post.
I disagree that real life money should be considered as a form currency in video games. You believe otherwise. Not the first time we have disagreed, nor the last, I am sure
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Games with all exclusive are great only if we dont have pay again for items in shops. The World of Warcraft system is great, we have to pay for game + sub to play but we dont have buy anything else to play.
Something good is also in tibia system, when u are facc account and u can play but its like demo but pacc its not expensive and u can buy it for in game cash.
We shouldnt forget about game developers, they hard work should be rewarded.
The biggest problem with "exclusive" content is when that content is no longer available. It's fun to pre-order before lunch, but once someone comes along after launch day and notices some cool Dragon Egg, Cape, or Pair of goggles, that person is going to be pissed when he finds out that there is nothing he could ever do to obtain them again. It always becomes a problem after the cut-off date.
If there must be an incentive to pre-order, it should be something like a headstart.
WAR held a Gamesday convention a few weeks before launch. Those people who attended (like myself) were given a special in-game code that would reward them with the ability to turn their character into a humanoid rat.
Now some of you people may not be able to believe this, but the following is an example how important "exclusive" content is to them:
When I was at the convention, I asked the developer if I could have a few copies of the "in-game" code. The dev gave me 4-5 of 'em. I went home and put them on eBay. Each unit was selling for around $200. Those who wanted one but didn't have any money and/or lived too far from the convention were out of luck. It was bs.
Everyone plays these games differently. While some people simply like the combat, others enjoy the collecting. Nobody should be "s.o.l" because of larger-than-normal finance requirements in these MMOs.
The Borg, a major species in The Star Trek realm, could only be obtained by purchasing the $250 lifelime sub before the STO launch date. It pisses people off.
It just rings cheap IMO and instantly start to look down on the company.
If you choose that gaming is not important to you and you would rather spend your time making money, hanging out with friends, or whatever else you deem to be time better spent then why are you playing a game that takes a lot of time at all?
I don't .. says who i play a game that takes a lot of time?
The only one that takes a lot of time recently for me is D3 .. which it is naturally fun because of the combat. I never spend a lot of time in other games.
Don't tell me you think modern MMOs are games that take 'a lot of time'. I finished Marvel Heroes story content in 30 hours for one character. That is not a lot of time particularly when i play over weeks. In fact, it is not that much more than a SP game.
You are correct, of course, I am fairly certain that NOBODY can play 24/7. They have to eat, sleep, and empty their bowels and bladders.
However, the people I listed DO have time to spend in video games, maybe NOT 24/7, but more than someone else may.
So, what was your point again? Everyone can be a multi-millionaire? I see you totally neglected THAT part of my post.
The point is simple .. people have different amount of time to play games.
People have different amount of money to put into p2w games.
There is little difference, in terms of fairness, whether the game is p2w or take more time to win.
In fact, precisely because few are milionaires, and that not everyone has some amount of time to play as a home-maker, make the comparison adequate.
There is no fairness in p2w or time-to-win ... so one is not "more fair" than the other.
Or in other words, your dollar is same as my dollar, just like your 5 min is the same as mine .. in a game.
"Time" is more appreciated than "money".
You can't pay to be the best boxer, soccer player, or musician. You can't instantly pay to have a rock-hard and combat-worthy body. You have to dedicate time and practice. The same concept used to apply to MMORPGs.
If people could just "pay" for superior skills, musicians like Hendrix and Steve Vai would be of no value. Skill would become cheap and watered down, much like the MMOs of today.
People who purchase advantage will always be looked upon as cheap... and for good reason.
So? It is still the same "unfair"-ness when some has more time, as some has more money.
And how is buying advantage "cheap"? .. they are the whales who spend money. The "cheap" people are the one who grind the advantage without spending a dime.
So? It is still the same "unfair"-ness when some has more time, as some has more money.
Unless you are doing slave labor or something it's not "unfair" at all. You're getting paid for your time. You probably have more money than they guy who sits around playing games all day. His life probably sucks pretty bad outside the game actually and chances are he'd gladly trade places with you if he could.
I don't mind the collectors stuff to draw people in to pay whatever they are willing to pay for the game itself. It supports the game and is usually a one time thing for those wanting to take the first jump.
I am more bothered by when they get a cash shop, free to play or not, then a considerable amount of cool looking stuff or whatever winds up being developed for the shop and away from being awarded in game.
If you choose that gaming is not important to you and you would rather spend your time making money, hanging out with friends, or whatever else you deem to be time better spent then why are you playing a game that takes a lot of time at all?
I don't .. says who i play a game that takes a lot of time?
The only one that takes a lot of time recently for me is D3 .. which it is naturally fun because of the combat. I never spend a lot of time in other games.
Don't tell me you think modern MMOs are games that take 'a lot of time'. I finished Marvel Heroes story content in 30 hours for one character. That is not a lot of time particularly when i play over weeks. In fact, it is not that much more than a SP game.
Exactly my point. People have taken the meaning out of MMOs. They are not just casual jokes and side attractions. It's why I don't play them much anymore and they don't hold my interest.
Comments
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
well, not everyone has the same amount of time .. so yeah .. it is as fair as time.
On the flip side, do you have "more" or "less" than 500k in terms of money? (You really don't have to answer that, for I don't care. I made that comment to make a point, only.)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I have less than 24 hours a day to play games because a) i have a job, and b) i have to sleep 8 hours a day. Other people may vary.
Don't tell me everyone has the same amount of leisure time to play games. If you say that, i would say everyone has the same opportunity and time to make money.
You still have the time though. You just use it differently. It's different from a person literally not having the money to compete in P2W. Many hobbies take lots of time if you really want to be the good at whatever it is. Paying money for cool stuff in a game is like paying some guy to pretend he's you and play the guitar because you don't have time to practice and get good yourself - kind of pathetic and pointless in my opinion.
Anyway, if you want to play games where the point is to just show off how much money you have knock yourself out. I don't consider that much of a game and won't touch them.
Well that is the point of most MMOs. It is more important in some than others, but overall, it shows up in just about every MMO.
Really? Anyone can be anything? Even the one-armed baseball player? The blind bus driver? The poor white boy with mediocre grades that can not get into a university because he is just not as smart as other college applicants? (He is not a minority or a woman, so he gets no "special interest group" help.) The Doctor who gets sick at the sight of blood? I am sorry, but what dreamworld do *you* live in?
And here comes the kicker. If a person does not have the means to buy a Ferrari, they don't. They DON'T buy that multi-million dollar mansion. Yet over and over, people WITHOUT the leisure time demand to be accounted for in video games, even when they rarely spend money on them, MMO-wise. THAT is the difference here...
MONEY is the currency of the real world. TIME is the currency of video games. If I don't have the money for real world things, I DON'T buy them. I also don't bitch about NOT having those items. If *you* don't have the time for video games, DON'T play them. Or, play them when you can and stop bitching about not having time.
EVERYONE has 24 hours in every day. The difference is how they choose to spend those hours. If you want to play a video game, but NOT spend the time to do so, don't expect the same experience as someone who DOES decide to make the time to "play."
Keep your "leisure time" crap out of it. You have the leisure time available to you that *you* choose to make available.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The only time exclusive content makes me angry is when I want it.
I don't EVER EVER EVER want to be an Imperial. If the game makers PAID ME to play as an imperial I would middle finger them. But there was some Forgotten Realms based game which name I've forgotten that was selling VIP packs with drow and spider mounts - EXCLUSIVELY. Like I said, I don't even remember that game's name nor will I ever try to find out let alone play it. Stricken from the records because they offended me.
If I'm going play some wizard's of the coast approved mmo I had better be allowed EVERYTHING drow at regular price!
Yes, because obviously very rarely people can just play MMO 24/7 ignoring life.
- When you go out go to a bar, that is time *you* choose to spend that way.
- When you choose to go to a gym, that is time *you* choose to spend that way.
- If *you* choose to make XXX amount of money and to do so, you have to work 80 hour weeks, that is *your* choice in how to spend your time. It is not that you "have" to work, but rather a choice in "how much" do you want to make.
Choices. Most of us have them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
In fact, you just made my point ....
non-working people have an "unfair" advantage over working people, not unlike rich have an advantage over poor ones.
So yeah ... i think using money is as fair as using time, as a measure of power.
And oh .. they don't play 24/7 .. they need to sleep, particularly the old ones. So both of my points are valid.
I would ask you a few questions.
If you choose that gaming is not important to you and you would rather spend your time making money, hanging out with friends, or whatever else you deem to be time better spent then why are you playing a game that takes a lot of time at all? There are many games out there that are not computer/video games that you can't compete in. There are board games, sports, art contests, etc. Would you like it if someone paid their way to victory, paid for an advantage, or paid for a third prize award? If someone decides they are going to dedicate themselves to spending hours on a game by making real life sacrifices perhaps they deserve to have more than just someone coming in and buying their way to the top. It devalues both the point of playing the game an the achievement of doing well or just having something meaningful out of the time you invested. The mechanics of MMOs today devalue their feeling of being worthwhile to play or investing time into them. I know some people will jump in and say that MMOs are just a game and you shouldn't take them so seriously. Spend time on something else. To that I say MMOs are a game like any other in life. It has as much meaning as you are willing to give it.
However, the people I listed DO have time to spend in video games, maybe NOT 24/7, but more than someone else may.
So, what was your point again? Everyone can be a multi-millionaire? I see you totally neglected THAT part of my post.
I disagree that real life money should be considered as a form currency in video games. You believe otherwise. Not the first time we have disagreed, nor the last, I am sure
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Games with all exclusive are great only if we dont have pay again for items in shops. The World of Warcraft system is great, we have to pay for game + sub to play but we dont have buy anything else to play.
Something good is also in tibia system, when u are facc account and u can play but its like demo but pacc its not expensive and u can buy it for in game cash.
We shouldnt forget about game developers, they hard work should be rewarded.
The biggest problem with "exclusive" content is when that content is no longer available. It's fun to pre-order before lunch, but once someone comes along after launch day and notices some cool Dragon Egg, Cape, or Pair of goggles, that person is going to be pissed when he finds out that there is nothing he could ever do to obtain them again. It always becomes a problem after the cut-off date.
If there must be an incentive to pre-order, it should be something like a headstart.
WAR held a Gamesday convention a few weeks before launch. Those people who attended (like myself) were given a special in-game code that would reward them with the ability to turn their character into a humanoid rat.
Now some of you people may not be able to believe this, but the following is an example how important "exclusive" content is to them:
When I was at the convention, I asked the developer if I could have a few copies of the "in-game" code. The dev gave me 4-5 of 'em. I went home and put them on eBay. Each unit was selling for around $200. Those who wanted one but didn't have any money and/or lived too far from the convention were out of luck. It was bs.
Everyone plays these games differently. While some people simply like the combat, others enjoy the collecting. Nobody should be "s.o.l" because of larger-than-normal finance requirements in these MMOs.
The Borg, a major species in The Star Trek realm, could only be obtained by purchasing the $250 lifelime sub before the STO launch date. It pisses people off.
It just rings cheap IMO and instantly start to look down on the company.
The point is simple .. people have different amount of time to play games.
People have different amount of money to put into p2w games.
There is little difference, in terms of fairness, whether the game is p2w or take more time to win.
In fact, precisely because few are milionaires, and that not everyone has some amount of time to play as a home-maker, make the comparison adequate.
There is no fairness in p2w or time-to-win ... so one is not "more fair" than the other.
Or in other words, your dollar is same as my dollar, just like your 5 min is the same as mine .. in a game.
I don't .. says who i play a game that takes a lot of time?
The only one that takes a lot of time recently for me is D3 .. which it is naturally fun because of the combat. I never spend a lot of time in other games.
Don't tell me you think modern MMOs are games that take 'a lot of time'. I finished Marvel Heroes story content in 30 hours for one character. That is not a lot of time particularly when i play over weeks. In fact, it is not that much more than a SP game.
"Time" is more appreciated than "money".
You can't pay to be the best boxer, soccer player, or musician. You can't instantly pay to have a rock-hard and combat-worthy body. You have to dedicate time and practice. The same concept used to apply to MMORPGs.
If people could just "pay" for superior skills, musicians like Hendrix and Steve Vai would be of no value. Skill would become cheap and watered down, much like the MMOs of today.
People who purchase advantage will always be looked upon as cheap... and for good reason.
So? It is still the same "unfair"-ness when some has more time, as some has more money.
And how is buying advantage "cheap"? .. they are the whales who spend money. The "cheap" people are the one who grind the advantage without spending a dime.
Unless you are doing slave labor or something it's not "unfair" at all. You're getting paid for your time. You probably have more money than they guy who sits around playing games all day. His life probably sucks pretty bad outside the game actually and chances are he'd gladly trade places with you if he could.
I don't mind the collectors stuff to draw people in to pay whatever they are willing to pay for the game itself. It supports the game and is usually a one time thing for those wanting to take the first jump.
I am more bothered by when they get a cash shop, free to play or not, then a considerable amount of cool looking stuff or whatever winds up being developed for the shop and away from being awarded in game.
Exactly my point. People have taken the meaning out of MMOs. They are not just casual jokes and side attractions. It's why I don't play them much anymore and they don't hold my interest.