Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I love the "give in" part of the title. Like there's this irresistible force pushing them that way... wishful thinking much?
If you want to wait 2 or 3 years, go for it.
Yeah, I always get the feeling that there's this hidden agenda behind many of these "F2P doom" posts, lol
It's like: "I actually quite enjoy this game, but I don't want to pay for it, so if it goes F2P in 6 months, I'm OK. Otherwise, I'll just cave and buy it now, because I'm not realistically going to wait 1 or 2 years before I play it."
It's either that or judging MMOs on their P2P worthiness is the latest wannabe reviewer's meme.
I mean, shit... I either want to play a game or not. If I don't, no amount of financial model changing will ever get me to play it
If I do want to play it the only thing that would make me pause and think is if the game is "free" to play, do I have the ability to put-up with their immersion-breaking intrusive marketing with all their "blue light special!" shit.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It should have been b2p from the get go with the high price they have, then have a vanity shop where you can change your looks etc. I think the price for the game is extremly high, and on top of that 15 bucks per month is asking for peeps rage. If it will go f2p? In a heartbeat...
Free2Play games are always more expensive as sub fee games, if you want to make fast progression and dont want to make a grind, there are not many games, that have a real free to play without restrictions like Path of Exile.
I hope TESO will have a sub for a long time.
The community in sub fee games is much better and less Goldspam in the Chat.
Game was extremly expensive and the only ones excited for it are the p2p fanboys here, the reception of it in general seems to be abysmal so far just look at Gaf or other big gaming sites the people there mostly dont like it(and lets face it those where the people they wanted to attract with this game development was started in the wow hype goldrush) so yes game will be f2p in no time, thats a no brainer,
Many people won't play this game because in their opinion, it isn't worth a sub. Those same people would probably give it more of a chance if they had nothing to lose.
Although, the people who like the game enough now to P2P will probably end up leaving when the cash shop is introduced to support the F2P model.
Its a vicious circle.
In my opinion, this game should have launched as a B2P and introduced cosmetics into a cash shop.
ESO will absolutely go F2P - but that's not a bad thing.
It is a smart thing (for the developer)
First people need to get out of their head that F2P is an indicator of "failure" - it's not - it's an indicator of wanting to maximize profits.
1. Release the game as Box price + sub (this is the highest profit method for a major AAA game)
2. At some point convert to F2P (gets another huge boost in profits - do this around 6-12 months post launch when the playerbase is down to about 25% of launch numbers)
3. Profit
Players need to understand that all MMOs are ultimately a business - and their business is to entertain their players AND make the max amount of $$$ at the same time
That is best done with F2P conversion at some point.
Thank you for the developer's CFO perspective... now back to the gamer's perspective: F2P games market at me while I play - I don't like that...the end.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO is going to fill several nices in the MMO market which are currently only filled by eve-online and a lot of people aren't playing that because it's eve-online.
Crafters and traders are going to feel right at home, and if MMO history teaches us anything it's that these kind of players stick around for awhile. The most hardcore traders are playing eve-online but a lot of people who're coming from stuff like Ultima Online, Shadowbane and SWG have been looking for a good crafting game in a fantasy ARPG setting for a while.
Open world PvP and RvR players are going to flock to the game. I mean, it's the first game in a long while that's been able to pull off large scale siege battles without major lag or system requirement problems. So you have people coming from Shadowbane, Dark age of Camelot and Warhammer online - and while the RvR is not as tactical as it was in those games it's not as gimmicky as it was in GW2 either + there is really no other option.
Elder Scrolls players in general are going to feel at home in the world. The monthly fee will scare some of them away, but even if only 10% of the Skyrim players decide to play ESO thats still more than 1 million people.
Casual players are going to enjoy the style in ESO because it's a really good game to be casual in. Everyone is on the same server so your friends will always be available for play + you don't have to raid four times a week to be able to get the best gear.
It's coming out for XBOX, Playstation and Mac and those platforms haven't had a good MMO for years.
I think ESO is going to sell around five million copies in it's first month and I think it's going to have more than a million subscribers by the end of the year which means there is really no reason for it to go F2P.
I love current state of game BUT this doesn't decide logentivity. Logentivity will be decided after a few months after release and I'm talking about promised quality content and world expansion if this content will be like gw2 small dumb and cheap game will not last long at least PVE side.
But consider that game it's P2P wow like and they still have full stuff of development so most probably expansions will be good and in new expansions we might see even more features that will make game even better.
Still I want to believe Zenimax have high hope with this project and will focus even more to become a Titan in MMO P2P market . I'm not intrested in and any kind of cheap and super dumb sandbox like ArcheAge. Eso in comparison with that have a SOUL there is something special about it you want to explore it.
ESO it's like that shy and cute girl who nobody sees , she's a mistery and you want to explore her.
While ArcheAge is some kind of most popular girl in school who is spoiled has a rich daddy and has 0 brain. ( still lot of guys want to stick her)
Any way main factor that will decide longetivity is Frequent map expansions witch also will include new skills new features and polishing of present content. ^^
Keeps whiny players out. I'll pay for that....seriously.
No, it doesn't. The financial capacity and willingness to pay a sub does not preclude being whiny.
Originally posted by Gaxusn
I predict F2P within 6-12 months.
Many people won't play this game because in their opinion, it isn't worth a sub. Those same people would probably give it more of a chance if they had nothing to lose.
Correction; many people won't play any sub game because they think games in general aren't worth a sub. The ones who think that subs can be ok, and this particular game just doesn't happen to be worth one are the people who probably wouldn't play even if there wasn't one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
it depends if the game's good or not. good games work under any payment model. bad games don't work under any payment model.
Right :-P I mean from current beta impressions?
And here you seem to reveal your true intentions with your insinuations. You either want to paint the game as not good and so not worthy of a subscription because of your F2P bias or you are just another ESO hater trying to smear the game because you don't personally like it.
Like the person you quoted stated...if the game is good the pay model is irrelevant. If the game is good people will pay for it either with a sub or with micro-transactions but it will earn money regardless because it's a good game. If the game sucks (which it doesn't) it doesn't matter if it's P2P or B2P or F2P..the game will still suck so who cares? On the other hand if the game is good but you won't play just because of the pay model that says more about you than it does about the game.
Nothing is free and others shouldn't have to pay your way so you can get a free ride (especially on a multi-million dollar game that needs to turn a profit). Even if the game was technically "F2P" they would need to earn a certain average dollar amount per person per month which just means the free players get to play thanks to the people who spend way more than the average (sub price). Nobody cares about the actual "free" players who never buy anything. Not the devs (it's not a charity) and certainly not the paying customers (who pay your way).
Have you read actual beta impressions like the in-depth Tamriel Foundry article instead of whiney posts/reviews from people who either hate the game because of it's pay model (regardless of the game itself) or people who have only played 10 levels in beta? Doesn't sound like it.
The question needs clarification as there are two parts to it: the initial payment and the continuing payment.
Initial payment:
Most companies charge for their products; whether it is $60 or 99 cents. There are however some Free-to-Buy games; ones you can start playing for nothing. Different business strategies - "price points", "consumer resistance" even "luxury pricing".
Do I think ESO will go Free-to-Buy (as STWOR did for example): NO. I believe it will stay B2P like e.g. TSW. Might get cheaper over time but I don't believe it will become free-to-buy.
Continuing Payment:
Do I believe that ESO will adopt a "micro-transaction" style approach - NO. don't believe it will work either. It isn't designed around the concept.
Do I believe that if ESO launches with a sub it will carry on with a sub? YES probably.
Do I believe that ESO will "adopt" a DLC model like TSW. If it launches - as seems to be the case - with a sub not likely but possible. Post launch there are problems of what to do with the people who did sub. And most of the lost sales will stay lost; TSW has not really recovered.
Do I believe it will continue with a sub: sadly YES.
Having a sub however impacts the price point. And generates huge customer resistance. There is also no longer any justification for having one. When they started networks, database software, techs all made for huge costs and it was accepted. And new content was not included. Look at the justifications usually given out:
bug fixes - no, zero tolerance; if a game has bugs you expect them to be fixed sub or not
customer support - "all" companies provide this (good or bad!);
network costs - still some justification but the cost is tiny otherwise e.g. GW1 would never have been possible;
keep the riff-raff out; classic "luxury pricing" comment, but luxury pricing implies smaller markets ....
future content / keep the devs working. Why? You don't buy a TV for $500 and then keep paying $125 a month so that the designers can come up with next years design. Destiny launches later this year without a sub. Destiny is planning on 10 years of content - no sub and yet it is still going to pay its devs. How can this be?
WoW has lots of subscribers. Indeed but it also loses lots every month and lots of people return. ESO won't have returning subscribers for a long time.
There is another - business - reason:
to smooth out revenue flow and as there is nothing set in stone as to what the sub is for it is very flexible
Will ESO sell. Absolutely. Tens of millions? Unlikely. If it only gets e.g. 2.4M sales like SWTOR .... will it ever fulfil its potential? Does anyone doubt that with a sub we are looking at initial sales; medium retention; decline down to a core playerbase that gradually dwindles?
So will the sub revenue make up for lost sales ... and potential DLC sales?
When Titanfall launches later this month it will use the same model that EA have used with BF3 and BF4. So Respawn (and maybe Microsoft) must be happy with it.
The BF model is B2P + "optional subscription package". Those who take out the package get a fixed number of xpacs. Very clear; very clean cut. Very simple. Those that don't have to buy as DLC. There is still an element of trust required on the part of the subscribers but a clear commitment. And note all these games have networks but no sub.
Activision's attempt at a subscription service for CoD is interesting. They offered "fuzzy" service extras, nothing definitive; the service failed. And when Desiny launches later this year it won't have a sub. 10 years of expansion packs are planned but no sub.
Moral: I suggest that consumers don't have a problem paying for something as long as they know what they are getting and believe that the price they are paying is reasonable. They are happy with cash on delivery but some would prefer the "luxury price" that a sub represents to "keep out" the undesirables. Never understood it myself but it is there.
Like I said if Zenimax go with a sub I think they will stay with a sub. And the game's potential, imo, will be unfulfilled.
ESO will be an ideal DLC platform. And they can sell legendary packages in later years. And if they need to hold back some dungeons from the core game fine. Just make sure they can launch some solid DLC in the first year say.
A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.
Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.
Sure. Eventually it will. But there is plenty of worhthile fun to be had in the game before then. To me, it's $50 for a month of play. Whatever happens after, i'll cross that bridge when i get there (if i get there).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..
This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.
The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..
This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.
The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...
Yeah sure thats why DC online (and thats even f2p) and FF14 are the biggest MMOs around oh wait.
Console players usually dont play p2p titles and next gen install base is not that huge to begin with so far and there are other problems aswell like the xbone users needing a gold subscrition to play eso for example.
F2P I see as never going away for the bla games out there.
I played beta this weekend for the first time in TESO and I was very pleased with what I got to see, with a few changes that could be made. I'm afraid of TESO going free to play and what it will do to the gaming industry as a whole.
Sub based games are just better for everyone, backing up the game with your money isn't a bad things like all the "freeloaders" keep saying out there. They will troll on any game that isn't free to play and it's really hurting all gamers.
If you can't afford to pay a few cents a day to play a game then maybe you should find something else to spend your time with? maybe long walks or hanging out at the mall? those are both free.
What will keep the sub money coming in is the End game and PVP.
F2P I see as never going away for the bla games out there.
I played beta this weekend for the first time in TESO and I was very pleased with what I got to see, with a few changes that could be made. I'm afraid of TESO going free to play and what it will do to the gaming industry as a whole.
Sub based games are just better for everyone, backing up the game with your money isn't a bad things like all the "freeloaders" keep saying out there. They will troll on any game that isn't free to play and it's really hurting all gamers.
If you can't afford to pay a few cents a day to play a game then maybe you should find something else to spend your time with? maybe long walks or hanging out at the mall? those are both free.
What will keep the sub money coming in is the End game and PVP.
Peace,
Lascer
Yeah sure tell that to the millions of "bla" players they are targeting with this game i wonder how that goes
Comments
And look where it is now...
Contrast that with GW2, which is B2P with an in-game cash shop.
Or EQ2 which is B2P for only the latest expansion, with an in-game cash shop.
Or EVE with its very low B2P price (20.00) and monthly sub.
Or SWTOR which is basically free to trial, but to really play the full game, you need to sub or buy content and functionality from the cash shop.
But really free to play, like Rift or Aion, I don't see anything like that for a very long time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's either that or judging MMOs on their P2P worthiness is the latest wannabe reviewer's meme.
I mean, shit... I either want to play a game or not. If I don't, no amount of financial model changing will ever get me to play it
If I do want to play it the only thing that would make me pause and think is if the game is "free" to play, do I have the ability to put-up with their immersion-breaking intrusive marketing with all their "blue light special!" shit.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Free2Play games are always more expensive as sub fee games, if you want to make fast progression and dont want to make a grind, there are not many games, that have a real free to play without restrictions like Path of Exile.
I hope TESO will have a sub for a long time.
The community in sub fee games is much better and less Goldspam in the Chat.
And 13€ is not more like a Big Pizza
The game is not expensive there are games on the market where you have 25 hours playtime and they cost 50-60 €
So here you pay 42€ if you preorder from gmg in the last sale and have a free month so you have way more than 25 hours playtime.
I predict F2P within 6-12 months.
Many people won't play this game because in their opinion, it isn't worth a sub. Those same people would probably give it more of a chance if they had nothing to lose.
Although, the people who like the game enough now to P2P will probably end up leaving when the cash shop is introduced to support the F2P model.
Its a vicious circle.
In my opinion, this game should have launched as a B2P and introduced cosmetics into a cash shop.
Playing: Nothing
Played: EQ1, EQ2, VG:SoH, WoW, AoC, LoTRO, Aion, L2, DF, WAR.
Favourites: EQ1, VG:SoH, Original WoW.
Waiting: Pantheon: ROTF
Thank you for the developer's CFO perspective... now back to the gamer's perspective: F2P games market at me while I play - I don't like that...the end.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO is going to fill several nices in the MMO market which are currently only filled by eve-online and a lot of people aren't playing that because it's eve-online.
I love current state of game BUT this doesn't decide logentivity. Logentivity will be decided after a few months after release and I'm talking about promised quality content and world expansion if this content will be like gw2 small dumb and cheap game will not last long at least PVE side.
But consider that game it's P2P wow like and they still have full stuff of development so most probably expansions will be good and in new expansions we might see even more features that will make game even better.
Still I want to believe Zenimax have high hope with this project and will focus even more to become a Titan in MMO P2P market . I'm not intrested in and any kind of cheap and super dumb sandbox like ArcheAge. Eso in comparison with that have a SOUL there is something special about it you want to explore it.
ESO it's like that shy and cute girl who nobody sees , she's a mistery and you want to explore her.
While ArcheAge is some kind of most popular girl in school who is spoiled has a rich daddy and has 0 brain. ( still lot of guys want to stick her)
Any way main factor that will decide longetivity is Frequent map expansions witch also will include new skills new features and polishing of present content. ^^
Correction; many people won't play any sub game because they think games in general aren't worth a sub. The ones who think that subs can be ok, and this particular game just doesn't happen to be worth one are the people who probably wouldn't play even if there wasn't one.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
And here you seem to reveal your true intentions with your insinuations. You either want to paint the game as not good and so not worthy of a subscription because of your F2P bias or you are just another ESO hater trying to smear the game because you don't personally like it.
Like the person you quoted stated...if the game is good the pay model is irrelevant. If the game is good people will pay for it either with a sub or with micro-transactions but it will earn money regardless because it's a good game. If the game sucks (which it doesn't) it doesn't matter if it's P2P or B2P or F2P..the game will still suck so who cares? On the other hand if the game is good but you won't play just because of the pay model that says more about you than it does about the game.
Nothing is free and others shouldn't have to pay your way so you can get a free ride (especially on a multi-million dollar game that needs to turn a profit). Even if the game was technically "F2P" they would need to earn a certain average dollar amount per person per month which just means the free players get to play thanks to the people who spend way more than the average (sub price). Nobody cares about the actual "free" players who never buy anything. Not the devs (it's not a charity) and certainly not the paying customers (who pay your way).
Have you read actual beta impressions like the in-depth Tamriel Foundry article instead of whiney posts/reviews from people who either hate the game because of it's pay model (regardless of the game itself) or people who have only played 10 levels in beta? Doesn't sound like it.
The question needs clarification as there are two parts to it: the initial payment and the continuing payment.
Initial payment:
Most companies charge for their products; whether it is $60 or 99 cents. There are however some Free-to-Buy games; ones you can start playing for nothing. Different business strategies - "price points", "consumer resistance" even "luxury pricing".
Do I think ESO will go Free-to-Buy (as STWOR did for example): NO. I believe it will stay B2P like e.g. TSW. Might get cheaper over time but I don't believe it will become free-to-buy.
Continuing Payment:
Do I believe that ESO will adopt a "micro-transaction" style approach - NO. don't believe it will work either. It isn't designed around the concept.
Do I believe that if ESO launches with a sub it will carry on with a sub? YES probably.
Do I believe that ESO will "adopt" a DLC model like TSW. If it launches - as seems to be the case - with a sub not likely but possible. Post launch there are problems of what to do with the people who did sub. And most of the lost sales will stay lost; TSW has not really recovered.
Do I believe it will continue with a sub: sadly YES.
Having a sub however impacts the price point. And generates huge customer resistance. There is also no longer any justification for having one. When they started networks, database software, techs all made for huge costs and it was accepted. And new content was not included. Look at the justifications usually given out:
As with all MMOs it depends entirely on how long the subscriber population remains healthy.
With how much they invested into it, they will definitely switch to F2P as soon as it becomes more profitable to do so.
My guess.
DAOC...a 12 year old game still is $15 subscription. This game has a strong and better set of features with its AvA.
The game has better pve than DAOC.
DAOC had over 1 million subscribers at it's peak
The game stays $15 /mo subscription.
Dream on...
There are a lot of good reasons old MMOs like DAOC stayed P2P so far none of them apply to newer (and way more expensive to develope) MMOs like ESO.
Sure. Eventually it will. But there is plenty of worhthile fun to be had in the game before then. To me, it's $50 for a month of play. Whatever happens after, i'll cross that bridge when i get there (if i get there).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
ESO will be the only major MMO available on consoles.... a new market.... a fresh game for many.... everyone is underestimating the number of console players that will fall for the game and so, it will be a game of wowish proportions on the consoles..
This will keep the game a subscription game for much much longer.
The PC release is only the pre release of the console version... we will be the bughunters and when released on consoles, the game will be of perfect proportions...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Lol, I m a huge DAOC fan, but it never came close to 1 mill.
Why people crap on DAOC pve , I ll never know. IMO it was better then TESO has.
RvR vs AvA, lol this is no comparison. DAOC hands down.
F2P eventually is my guess.
Yeah sure thats why DC online (and thats even f2p) and FF14 are the biggest MMOs around oh wait.
Console players usually dont play p2p titles and next gen install base is not that huge to begin with so far and there are other problems aswell like the xbone users needing a gold subscrition to play eso for example.
F2P I see as never going away for the bla games out there.
I played beta this weekend for the first time in TESO and I was very pleased with what I got to see, with a few changes that could be made. I'm afraid of TESO going free to play and what it will do to the gaming industry as a whole.
Sub based games are just better for everyone, backing up the game with your money isn't a bad things like all the "freeloaders" keep saying out there. They will troll on any game that isn't free to play and it's really hurting all gamers.
If you can't afford to pay a few cents a day to play a game then maybe you should find something else to spend your time with? maybe long walks or hanging out at the mall? those are both free.
What will keep the sub money coming in is the End game and PVP.
Peace,
Lascer
Yeah sure tell that to the millions of "bla" players they are targeting with this game i wonder how that goes