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What's the difference between fighting great AI and fighting a player?
bcbully
Member EpicPosts: 11,843
It's combat right?
Why would a person ask for great AI to combat, but refuse to engage in combat with a player?
I'm no psychologist, so could some one please explain this mindset?
Comments
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Although now that you bring it up, it could be hilarious in the right MMO.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
While I like pvp myself... I can see where some people might like that the NPC does not tea bag/ hump them after a defeat.
Oh if only NPC's could pm hate messages after a defeat that would be cool too.
Great AI doesn't exist?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I don't have to talk to the great AI or hear what it has to say.
The AI follows logical in-character reasons for attacking me or not.
The AI doesn't hang out at the respawn point killing me over and over until i log out.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Report the mob for griefing.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Players are unpredictable and can be better than you. [mod edit]
NPC are easier to interact with.
Fundamentally, an interaction with another human being is unpredictable, and thus people are apprehensive to do it at first.
Humans are complex, think, react differently and thus interacting with humans is simply more complex than with NPC with a predictable range of reactions (and you can apply this to PvP, but also grouping, sellings, conversations, etc.).
You need to be "there" mentally to interact with a human... If you had a bad day at work, do I want to use too much brainpower to play a game? Might be easier to play PvE in this case and just mash a few stupid mobs.
Also, the general impression is that PvP players are all experts, waiting blades out to cut every new player into pieces... Which is untrue, since half of PvP players are losers (this is true mathematically, if the other half are winners).
Combat-wise not much both will typically have cookie cutter builds with a predictable strategy that is published on a website along with how to counter it. Even a great AI will be as predictable as the typical PvP player.
Aside from verbal the interaction difference others have pointed out there is another difference. The NPC isn't so driven that it will exploit every possible game weakness to gain an advantage. Nor will it buy third party utility programs.
It really depends on the game being played, and what a person is considering to be 'good' AI.
The shortest answer possible would be 'a challenge'. Though sometimes the opposite is what a player actually wants.
Typically, you want to have robust (good) AI in games that revolve heavily around strategy. RTS games for example: Starcraft, Civilization, etc. Or games like Chess. The reason being is that it can be difficult to find players of a similar skill lvl for certain games. At which point you run into the problem of, do you expect players to wait around for 30minutes, hoping to get a decent matchup? Or do you give them the ability to simulate a decent matchup using AI, so they don't have to wait?
Another example would be w/ games like MOBAs. The AI in these games tends to be much more lackluster, though it's not 100% why. It does seem like for these types of games the AI is primarily used as a teaching tool. Players want to play vs. the AI to learn the game better, and to 'ease' into the more competitive play against other players. This tends to get reinforced by player attitudes, and people raging at teammates if they make mistakes / don't know how to play perfectly.
For other games like RPGs, WoW or Diablo for example; it becomes more of a euphoric sensation. Fighting against AI is generally easy to understand, more simplistic, and therefor more accessible. These games also give the player a feeling of 'hey, you're a total badass!', which gets reinforced constantly throughout the game, usually as reward for doing little else than playing the game. This has to do w/ Skinner-Box design, and how it places people in a self-perpetuating loot of feeling good for chasing gear, to chase more gear, to feel better. Playing against other players (and not AI), runs counter to this. As it rewards skill / intelligence, over playtime & commitment. As such, most players do not want to PvP for their loot, but instead would rather quest / raid for it.
There are other examples, but those 3 are the major / most common ones.
IBM's Deep Blue beat Garry Kasparov at chess.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I hope you are trolling because your opinion is completely absurd.
Not really. Go to any game forum with a PvP section. There will be build discussion and how to play that build. There will be questions on how to defeat a certain type of build. There are some players that can think and work outside the box but really not that many. The question was "fighting a player" I took that to mean the typical PvP player.
Only if one teabags my corpse.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Too bad 'innovate' often means 'loses fair fight, brings high level friends to help win next fight'.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
He's right.for every great PvP player who is creative and does smart,unpredictable things thee 1 million people who pvp predictably as any AI based on build and situation.Then there's 2 million more that play like complete morons.These figures are scientifically proven accurate in my imagination!
I enjoy both PvE and PvP but don't particularly think one is better game design or more fun than the other.By the OP and others opinions there would never be any single player or PvE games ever made and all we'd have is open world full loot PvP games and that would be boring as hell after awhile.I prefer variety.
To me if all it were was adapting and reacting it wouldn't be so bad. The problem is people will go to the extreme to gain whatever advantage they can in PvP. They will get the best equipment or get all these little clickies to gain an edge. If it were just equal players going up against one another (like chess) I don't think people would mind so much. The other part is the group PvP which can chaotic. I was never a big fan of following a leader around. I was less of a fan of using chat programs (which are usually required) to listen to orders during group PvP. I don't mind dueling once in a while. Another thing is that I didn't enjoy PvPing for very long in WoW. It was fun to do battleground or open world PvP at first, but once you die (and you will die) the 1000th time it's not exactly a fun time anymore. It becomes tedious like anything else you repeat, but there is little reward.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Smart post.