So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
Well actually yes, you are being a little ignorant and I don't mean to be demeaning when I say that. A couple of percentage points here and there come a poor third behind player skill and skill point allocation. Sure the spreadsheet crawling min / max junkie will notice but honestly, nobody else will. just play your class well, forget about numbers and have fun, that's what games are all about.
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
The final fantasy one doesn't even look like a cat.
Setting hard standards on what a fictional, bi-pedal, humanoid cat should or shouldn't look like? You don't see a problem with that?
For me it just means I won't play a Khajiit. What might bother me is they will get tagged with a negative because they have enough of a farming advantage to become the preferred character for gold farmers. So in time, seeing a Khajiit will imply bot or RMT.
Originally posted by sfc1971 Originally posted by HrothaOriginally posted by free2playAnd only PvP micro managers will notice.So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.
You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.
And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.
you, sir, r beautiful. balanced games r boring as hell. just like in real life, some people r just better than others. if the world was balanced, it would b boring.
Originally posted by mistmaker they could have +100% damage, but i would still never play a cat with a tail
Cat part I can't agree but ESO cat?
IMO they might have lost this war.
Or
If I'm in cat girl mood, I know where to log in.
One looks like a cat the other looks like a pretty human wearing cat ears.
The first looks like an anime cartoon pretty girl with cat ears.
The later is actually quite impressive. Was that taken in-game? wow
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
The final fantasy one doesn't even look like a cat.
the final fantasy one looks so generic; even as a cat, faces look all the same; TES cats hands down
Unless you are talking pvp,you NEVER want a totally balanced game,it just makes for a lame and limited game.There is nothing to fix,you allow EVERY class to be viable by giving them something outside of a one dimensional idea of bonus dmg or bonus hp.
I won't start listing the bazillion ideas because any decent system designer SHOULD be able f think of many.
I will however list one idea because everyone understands it and will follow the WHY.
Ok lets try this...
say for example your a Khajiit getting 15% on top of 100.Ok that is 115 and i only get 80 dmg for my best dps ability/spell.
To make BOTH viable you give the lesser class an ability to AOE for say 50 with various range.So now that AOE ability might hit 4 enemy at 50 adding up to 200 total damage,while the other guy gets his 115 on one target.
Actually i'll add one more idea for a third different class.What if the 3rd class gets say only 60 damage but gets a Drain effect of 50%?
This all works out because the AOE guy will draw aggro from all over,the single higher dps wil draw the most hate from one and the drain guy can literally heal himself so the healer does not have to frantically heal everyone.
Then of course you add in a multitude of other ideas like each wearing different armor,range distance,speed of attack,other buffs and de-buffs for self and others it goes on and on.Point being you do NOT need a balanced design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.
You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.
And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.
I agree, you see this in games like WoW and I started to hate it, also in games like Gw2 playing the dam midgets just to get the slight edge in pvp combat, I got sick of people that play MMO's like that and I feel they are a big part of what went wrong with MMO's over the years.
I play MMO's to get immersed, I can never and have never played a class that I couldn't get into, no matter how big of an advantage they gave me, I have to feel like the character connects with me and is the reason out of the 13 years of playing MMO's I never played a female because I am not one nor wish to be. (not that there is anything wrong with role playing a female, I respect your choice and fantasy)
When I make a toon in a MMO I try my best to make that toon look like me in real life in some way, human, tan skin, black hair, blue eyes and average build.
I kind of got lucky playing WoW as a human after a while when they added "Every Man for Himself " lol, but I could care less about race bonuses as I always find a way to overcome and most important I am truly playing the class, race & gender I truly enjoy for years to come.
I always found it funny when I saw people paying real money for a gender, class or race change just to get that small edge and thought to myself "what a sucker" lol
Well said... I play an Exorcist on TSW (it fits the background story I made for my Templar). You know, that class 100% healer who cant even make a single attack? I like the look and the clothes of it... It was a pain to evolve it, trust me... Worth every minute of play as well.. As someone spoke, mix-maxers are a bane to a mmoRPG ....
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.
You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.
And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.
I agree completely....they learned this concept A LONG time ago with racials. Overpowered racials are not a good thing in MMOs. The game would be alot more fun if they remove racials and allow people to play what they want to play without regret. All my friends are playing Khajit not because they like it but because of the racials which is sad.
Originally posted by mistmaker they could have +100% damage, but i would still never play a cat with a tail
Cat part I can't agree but ESO cat?
IMO they might have lost this war.
Or
If I'm in cat girl mood, I know where to log in.
One looks like a cat the other looks like a pretty human wearing cat ears.
The first looks like an anime cartoon pretty girl with cat ears.
The later is actually quite impressive. Was that taken in-game? wow
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
The final fantasy one doesn't even look like a cat.
the final fantasy one looks so generic; even as a cat, faces look all the same; TES cats hands down
Sorry, you guys are just wrong
Wins the bad ass Elf but Miqo'te is best Cat girl. It's just the way it is.
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's
If this were true then MMO's wouldn't have stats for characters. A lot of people enjoy the min-max aspect of MMO's for PvE and PvP.
Tweaking your character stats to improve your character is fun. Playing a race just because you are afraid those who play that race will out- minmax you is the OCD brand of tweaking.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's
If this were true then MMO's wouldn't have stats for characters. A lot of people enjoy the min-max aspect of MMO's for PvE and PvP.
Tweaking your character stats to improve your character is fun. Playing a race just because you are afraid those who play that race will out- minmax you is the OCD brand of tweaking.
We can agree on that discussing such a thing with individuals who like to stay in the vague fog of life and never allow themselves to dive into an experience fully, is rather obsolete. They might do it when they are ready. Typically speaks out for an individual who is still quite immature. But I am not here to judge, they can approach the game as they want to approach it - I just spoke out facts. And numbers are hard facts behind everything. Why those inviduals want to create such an artificial resistance about "Min-maxers" , as they call it, is also up to them. Like I have mentioned those who speak themselves out in this fashion will get the same spoken out about them in return. And the cycle is complete. I stay here and observe it and have my fun.
When i used to raid in EQ i used to allways be tweaking my berserker to be in the top 3 on the dps parse. I had to compete with rogues/monks and wizzys and back then they all had better abilitys than a berserker but i was allways in the top 3 if not the no. one dps on the raid. When you are max level in a mmo there is allways a stat cap where stuff like crits and the stats like dex and str that can help with crits all stop being that benifical when you reach a cap. So it just ment that yes 15% crit damage will help but with TESOs gear enhancements and how unique you can make your gear the 15% will be next to useless once you hit these caps.
The racials will only help when you are leveling up and if you cant over come that 15% by tweaking your gear then you really need to put more thought into your char and his gear set up.
Since ppl speak of being able to reach soft caps-rendering racials more or less insignificant: what advantage does a khajiit have with already 15% crit, what other stat can the khajiit (a nightblade for instance) spend slots in gear for, giving them a different stat advantage?
And does the 3 meter stealth increase have any true benefit for a NB wit the 2.5 sec stealth? This doesnt affect crouching? Theres no other way to get that stat right (khajiit/woodie).
Hey little bunnies ever heard of game where you could actually play races like centaur which runs almost 2x faster then other races or have natural flying or be a tough as nails half-giant or minotaur? No? No problem enjoy your +2STR wow/teso stat differences little carebear bunnies.
Hey little bunnies ever heard of game where you could actually play races like centaur which runs almost 2x faster then other races or have natural flying or be a tough as nails half-giant or minotaur? No? No problem enjoy your +2STR wow/teso stat differences little carebear bunnies.
You mean that failed game that isn't around anymore? Oh, right, that one.
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's
If this were true then MMO's wouldn't have stats for characters. A lot of people enjoy the min-max aspect of MMO's for PvE and PvP.
Tweaking your character stats to improve your character is fun. Playing a race just because you are afraid those who play that race will out- minmax you is the OCD brand of tweaking.
We can agree on that discussing such a thing with individuals who like to stay in the vague fog of life and never allow themselves to dive into an experience fully, is rather obsolete. They might do it when they are ready. Typically speaks out for an individual who is still quite immature. But I am not here to judge, they can approach the game as they want to approach it - I just spoke out facts. And numbers are hard facts behind everything. Why those inviduals want to create such an artificial resistance about "Min-maxers" , as they call it, is also up to them. Like I have mentioned those who speak themselves out in this fashion will get the same spoken out about them in return. And the cycle is complete. I stay here and observe it and have my fun.
Coming from someone who obviously takes gaming way too seriously, that you would call those who play for the fun of it "immature" is pretty effing hilarious. Not to mention, someone who lobs around cute little e-taunts like, "See you in PvP."
Hey little bunnies ever heard of game where you could actually play races like centaur which runs almost 2x faster then other races or have natural flying or be a tough as nails half-giant or minotaur? No? No problem enjoy your +2STR wow/teso stat differences little carebear bunnies.
NOPE All the way Redguard here, because I am half Persian and they looks like Persians too ..
I am on 80% sure I will go Redguard Dragonknight ranger, here not sure if off set weapon will be 2h, dual wield, or 1h/shield .. also not sure if medium or heavy armor yet.
Look, you cant just balance every racial to 100% otherwise you can just have no racials at all ..
^This.
I actually ended up with a Redguard DK ,Earthen Heart Spec,Dual Wield,Bow,Medium Armor and I loved the build.
Played mainly Ranged in PvP and Melee for PvE(Whirlwind is great for killing packs of mobs).
Meh, don't care. Though I'm somewhat of a min maxer, I'll still be playing a redguard, and building my character accordingly attribute wise. Most likely going nightblade, medium armor, two-hander, and bow. I am tempted to do sword and board instead of two hander though.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
Comments
Well actually yes, you are being a little ignorant and I don't mean to be demeaning when I say that. A couple of percentage points here and there come a poor third behind player skill and skill point allocation. Sure the spreadsheet crawling min / max junkie will notice but honestly, nobody else will. just play your class well, forget about numbers and have fun, that's what games are all about.
Setting hard standards on what a fictional, bi-pedal, humanoid cat should or shouldn't look like? You don't see a problem with that?
For me it just means I won't play a Khajiit. What might bother me is they will get tagged with a negative because they have enough of a farming advantage to become the preferred character for gold farmers. So in time, seeing a Khajiit will imply bot or RMT.
No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.
You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.
And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.
you, sir, r beautiful. balanced games r boring as hell. just like in real life, some people r just better than others. if the world was balanced, it would b boring.
the final fantasy one looks so generic; even as a cat, faces look all the same; TES cats hands down
Unless you are talking pvp,you NEVER want a totally balanced game,it just makes for a lame and limited game.There is nothing to fix,you allow EVERY class to be viable by giving them something outside of a one dimensional idea of bonus dmg or bonus hp.
I won't start listing the bazillion ideas because any decent system designer SHOULD be able f think of many.
I will however list one idea because everyone understands it and will follow the WHY.
Ok lets try this...
say for example your a Khajiit getting 15% on top of 100.Ok that is 115 and i only get 80 dmg for my best dps ability/spell.
To make BOTH viable you give the lesser class an ability to AOE for say 50 with various range.So now that AOE ability might hit 4 enemy at 50 adding up to 200 total damage,while the other guy gets his 115 on one target.
Actually i'll add one more idea for a third different class.What if the 3rd class gets say only 60 damage but gets a Drain effect of 50%?
This all works out because the AOE guy will draw aggro from all over,the single higher dps wil draw the most hate from one and the drain guy can literally heal himself so the healer does not have to frantically heal everyone.
Then of course you add in a multitude of other ideas like each wearing different armor,range distance,speed of attack,other buffs and de-buffs for self and others it goes on and on.Point being you do NOT need a balanced design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Truer Words Were Never Spoken
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Well said... I play an Exorcist on TSW (it fits the background story I made for my Templar). You know, that class 100% healer who cant even make a single attack? I like the look and the clothes of it... It was a pain to evolve it, trust me... Worth every minute of play as well.. As someone spoke, mix-maxers are a bane to a mmoRPG ....
You tell him!
If this were true then MMO's wouldn't have stats for characters. A lot of people enjoy the min-max aspect of MMO's for PvE and PvP.
Sorry, you guys are just wrong
Wins the bad ass Elf but Miqo'te is best Cat girl. It's just the way it is.
aaaaaand they are the bane. Not hard to grasp.
Stats are stats....they would be there regardless. Min-maxers are the people that shake that ketchup bottle til every last drop comes out.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Tweaking your character stats to improve your character is fun. Playing a race just because you are afraid those who play that race will out- minmax you is the OCD brand of tweaking.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
A-****ing-men to that.
We can agree on that discussing such a thing with individuals who like to stay in the vague fog of life and never allow themselves to dive into an experience fully, is rather obsolete. They might do it when they are ready. Typically speaks out for an individual who is still quite immature. But I am not here to judge, they can approach the game as they want to approach it - I just spoke out facts. And numbers are hard facts behind everything. Why those inviduals want to create such an artificial resistance about "Min-maxers" , as they call it, is also up to them. Like I have mentioned those who speak themselves out in this fashion will get the same spoken out about them in return. And the cycle is complete. I stay here and observe it and have my fun.
When i used to raid in EQ i used to allways be tweaking my berserker to be in the top 3 on the dps parse. I had to compete with rogues/monks and wizzys and back then they all had better abilitys than a berserker but i was allways in the top 3 if not the no. one dps on the raid. When you are max level in a mmo there is allways a stat cap where stuff like crits and the stats like dex and str that can help with crits all stop being that benifical when you reach a cap. So it just ment that yes 15% crit damage will help but with TESOs gear enhancements and how unique you can make your gear the 15% will be next to useless once you hit these caps.
The racials will only help when you are leveling up and if you cant over come that 15% by tweaking your gear then you really need to put more thought into your char and his gear set up.
Since ppl speak of being able to reach soft caps-rendering racials more or less insignificant: what advantage does a khajiit have with already 15% crit, what other stat can the khajiit (a nightblade for instance) spend slots in gear for, giving them a different stat advantage?
And does the 3 meter stealth increase have any true benefit for a NB wit the 2.5 sec stealth? This doesnt affect crouching? Theres no other way to get that stat right (khajiit/woodie).
Hey little bunnies ever heard of game where you could actually play races like centaur which runs almost 2x faster then other races or have natural flying or be a tough as nails half-giant or minotaur? No? No problem enjoy your +2STR wow/teso stat differences little carebear bunnies.
You mean that failed game that isn't around anymore? Oh, right, that one.
Coming from someone who obviously takes gaming way too seriously, that you would call those who play for the fun of it "immature" is pretty effing hilarious. Not to mention, someone who lobs around cute little e-taunts like, "See you in PvP."
Yes, you're truly the epitome of maturity, ha.Bears aren't bunnies.
Thought I'd point that out for you.
You stay sassy!
^This.
I actually ended up with a Redguard DK ,Earthen Heart Spec,Dual Wield,Bow,Medium Armor and I loved the build.
Played mainly Ranged in PvP and Melee for PvE(Whirlwind is great for killing packs of mobs).
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron