At this point, it's worth pointing out: Mounts work differently on WoW than TESO.
The cost of a mount in WoW is literal pocket change for their respective levels, even for new players. The actual "cost" is getting the Riding skill, which costs about 20x more than the actual mount... and *CANNOT* be purchased in the cash shop.
TESOs mounts aren't pocket change - you don't get them for awhile if you're a new player. 17k is nothing to sneeze at until high level.
If TESOs mounts were like WoW, it would cost about 500 gold to buy it in game - and that's all you'd get from the Cash Shop. I don't think folks would be complaining about that.
Havent played WoW in a very long time. I thought the mounts are cheap, but the riding training was the catch?
At this point, it's worth pointing out: Mounts work differently on WoW than TESO.
The cost of a mount in WoW is literal pocket change for their respective levels, even for new players. The actual "cost" is getting the Riding skill, which costs about 20x more than the actual mount... and *CANNOT* be purchased in the cash shop.
TESOs mounts aren't pocket change - you don't get them for awhile if you're a new player. 17k is nothing to sneeze at until high level.
If TESOs mounts were like WoW, it would cost about 500 gold to buy it in game - and that's all you'd get from the Cash Shop. I don't think folks would be complaining about that.
Havent played WoW in a very long time. I thought the mounts are cheap, but the riding training was the catch?
Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear - but that's exactly how it works. The actual mounts in WoW are dirt cheap. For all intent and purpose, what you're buying in WoW's cash shop is a cosmetic skin. I'm fine with that.
That's not the case here. In TESO, you're buying a costly mechanical edge, especially if you're a new player.
I don't like ESO so I won't be playing it, but this bothers me because I don't want any kind of momentum shifting towards this kind of business model. I really only want two options. 1. Buy to Play or 2. Sub to play - micro transactions all together could disappear and I would be happy.
This horse in the cash shop (side note... Box price and sub fee and cash shop?) at any rate this horse, did everyone that pre ordered already know about this? Or did this just come out today as a surprise?
This really could be considered pay to win in some regards. Have a mount is an advantage as one become established in an mmorpg.
The following isn't directly related to ESO just a rehashing of the robbery imposed onto gamers.
Part of the reason I hate f2p is because I don't like surprises that are tempting me to dip into my pocket book. These video game companies really got you by the balls, you can be so addicted and dedicated to their game, and at any given moment they add a watchamagadget that you can't live without for $20.
We've also got games releasing with half the content they should have because the other half was held back for a $15 DLC
Originally posted by Knotwood They should Fire Matt Firor and put Paul Sage in his place.
We only know what they say publicly, we have no idea what goes on internally. So attributing this decision to any one particular individual is a little unreasonable.
Ive watched enough of their videos to know it was Matt Firor's decision. Paul Sage is probably hiding right now and refused to say this.
Keep also in mind that Matt Firor is the head of the entire show, what he says goes or doesn't go also.
I doubt it, I think Paul is the bad guy. Maybe it's Konkle, he is not to be trusted either though. Shady peeps working over there.
I got a fire burning nice and hot. someone find out who made this decision, we need a sacrifice!
I don't like ESO so I won't be playing it, but this bothers me because I don't want any kind of momentum shifting towards this kind of business model. I really only want two options. 1. Buy to Play or 2. Sub to play - micro transactions all together could disappear and I would be happy.
This horse in the cash shop (side note... Box price and sub fee and cash shop?) at any rate this horse, did everyone that pre ordered already know about this? Or did this just come out today as a surprise?
This really could be considered pay to win in some regards. Have a mount is an advantage as one become established in an mmorpg.
The following isn't directly related to ESO just a rehashing of the robbery imposed onto gamers.
Part of the reason I hate f2p is because I don't like surprises that are tempting me to dip into my pocket book. These video game companies really got you by the balls, you can be so addicted and dedicated to their game, and at any given moment they add a watchamagadget that you can't live without for $20.
We've also got games releasing with half the content they should have because the other half was held back for a $15 DLC
Excellent post.
It is a little concerning how willing people are to part with more and more money over games they are excited over.
I mean, I'm not poor - the difference between a $60 and an $80 isn't much to me. But I also don't want it to become acceptable for the situation you described. TESO makes out like a bandit here, using a F2P Cash Shop format in a P2P Subscription model... it's just a bad thing to see get momentum.
Originally posted by Fearum This site is full of Drama Queens. Its a f*cking mount, you can buy them in any game with a cash shop, sub or not since WoW introduced them in 1978.
No problem with the mount, just take away the speed boost from it and make it cosmetic...problem solved.
+1.
New players don't get 17k gold very quickly. It's one heck of an advantage to have at the starting gate because you paid $80 rather than $60.
Get a better job I guess, not sure what to tell you. The last few MMO's I have purchased Digital CE all came with a mount. I don't know man, you are out numbered in your protest. They are selling like hot cakes.
Of course their selling like hot cakes! LOL Who wouldnt want an edge, even for a few days, in any game.
See here's the thing - you think everything is about shafting you and giving someone else an advantage. There are some of us that gaming is their hobby and we don't mind spending money on it. Just like that guy restoring that PoS car etc I don't get why he does it but I accept he does and more power to him because he's getting happiness from investing in his hobby.
I don't like ESO so I won't be playing it, but this bothers me because I don't want any kind of momentum shifting towards this kind of business model. I really only want two options. 1. Buy to Play or 2. Sub to play - micro transactions all together could disappear and I would be happy.
This horse in the cash shop (side note... Box price and sub fee and cash shop?) at any rate this horse, did everyone that pre ordered already know about this? Or did this just come out today as a surprise?
This really could be considered pay to win in some regards. Have a mount is an advantage as one become established in an mmorpg.
The following isn't directly related to ESO just a rehashing of the robbery imposed onto gamers.
Part of the reason I hate f2p is because I don't like surprises that are tempting me to dip into my pocket book. These video game companies really got you by the balls, you can be so addicted and dedicated to their game, and at any given moment they add a watchamagadget that you can't live without for $20.
We've also got games releasing with half the content they should have because the other half was held back for a $15 DLC
Excellent post.
It is a little concerning how willing people are to part with more and more money over games they are excited over.
I mean, I'm not poor - the difference between a $60 and an $80 isn't much to me. But I also don't want it to become acceptable for the situation you described. TESO makes out like a bandit here, using a F2P Cash Shop format in a P2P Subscription model... it's just a bad thing to see get momentum.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think sub games are going to be $15 forever. B2P games make their money off of the cash shops, so not sure how your theory would work here.
Its either they hike up that price for a sub or sell crap in a cash shop to make other profits. Imagine the first game that will come out with a $20/month sub fee or even $25 and the shit storm it will cause, I can't wait. I would be happy to see the cash shops die also but the majority seem to think it is a great idea. Spending an extra $20 on a CE I will already have a horse so I don't care if they put it in the cash shop for others to pick up.
Well, if you didn't pre-order the Imperial edition, and you don't feel like saving in-game money to buy one - you can just purchase a horse from their cash shop. In this interview released today Matt Firor confirms. Is this the first stepping stone of what Matt Firor calls a "variety of additional services for interested players?" Time will tell what else the cash shop offers over time, but I highly doubt they will leave it at this forever. Personally it doesn't sit well with me paying a sub and also having these cash shop purchase options for significant things (a horse is very significant in this game). And before you yell "wow did it too!", let me say 2 wrongs don't make a right.
What types of items or services can we expect to find in the Zenimax store?
The purpose of the store is to offer interested players a variety of additional services. At launch we’re going to have two items: the ability to upgrade to the Imperial Edition, and an entry level horse (Palomino colored). The horse you get in both purchases is functionally the same, but the Imperial Edition is the only way to ever get the White horse. We have the Palomino horse available to allow players to purchase a basic mount without purchasing the entire Imperial Edition.
1) This is in response to people bitching about the Imperail Edition.
2) No I don't care, because I bought the Imperial Edition
3) Even if I hadn't bought the Imperial Edition, I still wouldn't care because the base horse costs 17,000 gold. Which I would have by level 20 or so.
Originally posted by umcorian
At this point, it's worth pointing out: Mounts work differently on WoW than TESO.
The cost of a mount in WoW is literal pocket change for their respective levels, even for new players. The actual "cost" is getting the Riding skill, which costs about 20x more than the actual mount for their respective levels and *CANNOT* be purchased in the cash shop.
TESOs mounts aren't pocket change - you don't get them for awhile if you're a new player. 17k is nothing to sneeze at until high level.
If TESOs mounts were like WoW, it would cost about 500 gold to buy it in game - and that's all you'd get from the Cash Shop that's technically mechanical. I don't think folks would be complaining about that.
What are you talking about? I had 6k by level 11. I would've had more that 17k by level 20 or 25.
Well this is pure shite to put it mildly and now it's only a matter of time until they start peddling other stuff in cash shop. Gonna play until then though but I must admit that I feel ripped off.
"And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree" - Gibran said it better than I can.
This thread makes me think more of the Bard. "Much ado about nothing," or perhaps even better, "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
ESO has given EVERYONE an additional option in the game, buy a horse or don't buy one... And this is somehow bad?
Ahh yes, because if you don't want to spend money on something then no one else should be allowed to. Got it.
No, it's the same original option, buy the game or don't buy the game...not good or bad, the consumer is just more informed now on what they are buying into...
Sadly I am very disappointed the direction they have taken. I wouldn't mind if they went B2P like GW2, but a full Sub game... Before anyone start comparing to WoW, they didn't add shops till the 4th expansion.
ESO has given EVERYONE an additional option in the game, buy a horse or don't buy one... And this is somehow bad?
Ahh yes, because if you don't want to spend money on something then no one else should be allowed to. Got it.
No, it's the same original option, buy the game or don't buy the game...not good or bad, the consumer is just more informed now on what they are buying into...
What they should do is put the Imperial Race in the store to buy separately, its unfair that they put a horse in there but not an imperial race. Hell put a mudcrab in there and a rings of mara...
Originally posted by kayze68 Sadly I am very disappointed the direction they have taken. I wouldn't mind if they went B2P like GW2, but a full Sub game... Before anyone start comparing to WoW, they didn't add shops till the 4th expansion.
Whenever people try to defend lack of content in a game at launch by pointing out it has more than WoW launched with, they get told "You can't compare to WoW when it launched, you have to compare to WoW now." It's not realistic to compare how long after launch a new game adds a cash shop to how long after launch an old game did, because the old games are still here, today is all that matters, and today virtually every AAA MMO has a cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by kayze68 Sadly I am very disappointed the direction they have taken. I wouldn't mind if they went B2P like GW2, but a full Sub game... Before anyone start comparing to WoW, they didn't add shops till the 4th expansion.
Whenever people try to defend lack of content in a game at launch by pointing out it has more than WoW launched with, they get told "You can't compare to WoW when it launched, you have to compare to WoW now." It's not realistic to compare how long after launch a new game adds a cash shop to how long after launch an old game did, because the old games are still here, today is all that matters, and today virtually every AAA MMO has a cash shop.
If you think WoW did not make enough money to fully support the game and server WITHOUT ANY subs for next 10 years, you are fooling yourself. The only reason WoW added cash shops was because realizing they can make more. Realizing the the potential LoL had unlocked for all games in general, it is just another body of water to fish in, and frankly they can do whatever they want and still maintain their player base. Can the same be said for a new MMO? Only time will tell. However, playing on words with their customer and fan base is not off to a good start.
If you think WoW did not make enough money to fully support the game and server WITHOUT ANY subs for next 10 years, you are fooling yourself. The only reason WoW added cash shops was because realizing they can make more. Realizing the the potential LoL had unlocked for all games in general, it is just another body of water to fish in, and frankly they can do whatever they want and still maintain their player base. Can the same be said for a new MMO? Only time will tell. However, playing on words with their customer and fan base is not off to a good start.
You're missing my point. It doesn't matter whether a game can survive without a cash shop. The purpose of companies isn't to merely survive. It's about maximizing profit, and including a cash shop is the new normal. A team would need an extremely compelling argument to convince their investors that *not* having a cash shop is a good idea. I'm not sure what that argument would be, but clearly either ZOS couldn't think of it either, or they tried it and their bosses at Zenimax Media didn't find it compelling.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Seems like selling stuff like this in the cash shop would give Zeni the incentive to introduce more grind (grind for gold to get horse or buy it) than without a cash shop.
That's unfortunate. One of the reasons why a lot of people have been asking for a decent sub-based game is to avoid just this kind of stink.
It doesn't matter whether a game can survive without a cash shop. The purpose of companies isn't to merely survive. It's about maximizing profit, and including a cash shop is the new normal. A team would need an extremely compelling argument to convince their investors that *not* having a cash shop is a good idea. I'm not sure what that argument would be, but clearly either ZOS couldn't think of it either, or they tried it and their bosses at Zenimax Media didn't find it compelling.
Pretty much this. This is why you should never ever white knight a company and/or game (regardless of the emotional attachment one may have). Just because someone says one thing does not mean it's going to be that way forever.
Suits:Grab as much money as you can before going F2P before the one year mark!
If you think WoW did not make enough money to fully support the game and server WITHOUT ANY subs for next 10 years, you are fooling yourself. The only reason WoW added cash shops was because realizing they can make more. Realizing the the potential LoL had unlocked for all games in general, it is just another body of water to fish in, and frankly they can do whatever they want and still maintain their player base. Can the same be said for a new MMO? Only time will tell. However, playing on words with their customer and fan base is not off to a good start.
You're missing my point. It doesn't matter whether a game can survive without a cash shop. The purpose of companies isn't to merely survive. It's about maximizing profit, and including a cash shop is the new normal. A team would need an extremely compelling argument to convince their investors that *not* having a cash shop is a good idea. I'm not sure what that argument would be, but clearly either ZOS couldn't think of it either, or they tried it and their bosses at Zenimax Media didn't find it compelling.
If they stated that from the first place, I'm sure no one would have any problems with it. However I'm going to quote the director of Zeni here:
“You pay once per month after the first 30 days and the entire game is available to you.”
“The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP.”
“There won’t be anything like ‘bonus points’ but we’ll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it’s not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price.”
“Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being “monetized” in the middle of playing the game…”
Obviously we are already pass the 100% access with imperial locked behind a paywall. But hey whatever, right? Now are we categorizing mounts with account services, like name changes? I'm sorry, you can say its a play on words or whatever, but people are not going to think mounts, cosmetic, with name changes. You are literally putting a price on gold right now, 17k equates to $10. Is there a difference for them to sell 17k gold for 10 bucks so we can just buy the damn mount in game? Nope. But hey. You guys can justify it however you want with excuses. But we been lied to, plain and simple.
If they stated that from the first place, I'm sure no one would have any problems with it. However I'm going to quote the director of Zeni here:
“You pay once per month after the first 30 days and the entire game is available to you.”
“The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP.”
“There won’t be anything like ‘bonus points’ but we’ll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it’s not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price.”
“Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being “monetized” in the middle of playing the game…”
Obviously we are already pass the 100% access with imperial locked behind a paywall. But hey whatever, right? Now are we categorizing mounts with account services, like name changes? I'm sorry, you can say its a play on words or whatever, but people are not going to think mounts, cosmetic, with name changes. You are literally putting a price on gold right now, 17k equates to $10. Is there a difference for them to sell 17k gold for 10 bucks so we can just buy the damn mount in game? Nope. But hey. You guys can justify it however you want with excuses. But we been lied to, plain and simple.
I don't care how many times I have to repeat it; it's only a lie if they didn't mean it when they said it. Changing your mind, or being overruled by a higher authority, does not mean you lied. And none of us here are mind readers, so we don't know what they were thinking when those statements were made. All this calling people liars amounts to is an attempt at libel, plain and simple.
And if we're being realistic, there is already a price on gold in games. Anybody who wants to buy gold can find someone to sell it to them. Anything a player can manage to pay somebody to do for them is something the company making the game should be offering, so that they are the ones who get the money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
Havent played WoW in a very long time. I thought the mounts are cheap, but the riding training was the catch?
Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear - but that's exactly how it works. The actual mounts in WoW are dirt cheap. For all intent and purpose, what you're buying in WoW's cash shop is a cosmetic skin. I'm fine with that.
That's not the case here. In TESO, you're buying a costly mechanical edge, especially if you're a new player.
I don't like ESO so I won't be playing it, but this bothers me because I don't want any kind of momentum shifting towards this kind of business model. I really only want two options. 1. Buy to Play or 2. Sub to play - micro transactions all together could disappear and I would be happy.
This horse in the cash shop (side note... Box price and sub fee and cash shop?) at any rate this horse, did everyone that pre ordered already know about this? Or did this just come out today as a surprise?
This really could be considered pay to win in some regards. Have a mount is an advantage as one become established in an mmorpg.
The following isn't directly related to ESO just a rehashing of the robbery imposed onto gamers.
Part of the reason I hate f2p is because I don't like surprises that are tempting me to dip into my pocket book. These video game companies really got you by the balls, you can be so addicted and dedicated to their game, and at any given moment they add a watchamagadget that you can't live without for $20.
We've also got games releasing with half the content they should have because the other half was held back for a $15 DLC
I got a fire burning nice and hot. someone find out who made this decision, we need a sacrifice!
Time for us to start a Dark Anchor!
Rare footage of a Zenimax Company Retreat. Those guys really live their business philosophy. Kudos.
http://youtu.be/I-8wEKI1cAs
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Excellent post.
It is a little concerning how willing people are to part with more and more money over games they are excited over.
I mean, I'm not poor - the difference between a $60 and an $80 isn't much to me. But I also don't want it to become acceptable for the situation you described. TESO makes out like a bandit here, using a F2P Cash Shop format in a P2P Subscription model... it's just a bad thing to see get momentum.
See here's the thing - you think everything is about shafting you and giving someone else an advantage. There are some of us that gaming is their hobby and we don't mind spending money on it. Just like that guy restoring that PoS car etc I don't get why he does it but I accept he does and more power to him because he's getting happiness from investing in his hobby.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think sub games are going to be $15 forever. B2P games make their money off of the cash shops, so not sure how your theory would work here.
Its either they hike up that price for a sub or sell crap in a cash shop to make other profits. Imagine the first game that will come out with a $20/month sub fee or even $25 and the shit storm it will cause, I can't wait. I would be happy to see the cash shops die also but the majority seem to think it is a great idea. Spending an extra $20 on a CE I will already have a horse so I don't care if they put it in the cash shop for others to pick up.
1) This is in response to people bitching about the Imperail Edition.
2) No I don't care, because I bought the Imperial Edition
3) Even if I hadn't bought the Imperial Edition, I still wouldn't care because the base horse costs 17,000 gold. Which I would have by level 20 or so.
What are you talking about? I had 6k by level 11. I would've had more that 17k by level 20 or 25.
eeh too off topic
ESO has given EVERYONE an additional option in the game, buy a horse or don't buy one... And this is somehow bad?
Ahh yes, because if you don't want to spend money on something then no one else should be allowed to. Got it.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
This thread makes me think more of the Bard. "Much ado about nothing," or perhaps even better, "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
No, it's the same original option, buy the game or don't buy the game...not good or bad, the consumer is just more informed now on what they are buying into...
True
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
What they should do is put the Imperial Race in the store to buy separately, its unfair that they put a horse in there but not an imperial race. Hell put a mudcrab in there and a rings of mara...
Whenever people try to defend lack of content in a game at launch by pointing out it has more than WoW launched with, they get told "You can't compare to WoW when it launched, you have to compare to WoW now." It's not realistic to compare how long after launch a new game adds a cash shop to how long after launch an old game did, because the old games are still here, today is all that matters, and today virtually every AAA MMO has a cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If you think WoW did not make enough money to fully support the game and server WITHOUT ANY subs for next 10 years, you are fooling yourself. The only reason WoW added cash shops was because realizing they can make more. Realizing the the potential LoL had unlocked for all games in general, it is just another body of water to fish in, and frankly they can do whatever they want and still maintain their player base. Can the same be said for a new MMO? Only time will tell. However, playing on words with their customer and fan base is not off to a good start.
You're missing my point. It doesn't matter whether a game can survive without a cash shop. The purpose of companies isn't to merely survive. It's about maximizing profit, and including a cash shop is the new normal. A team would need an extremely compelling argument to convince their investors that *not* having a cash shop is a good idea. I'm not sure what that argument would be, but clearly either ZOS couldn't think of it either, or they tried it and their bosses at Zenimax Media didn't find it compelling.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Seems like selling stuff like this in the cash shop would give Zeni the incentive to introduce more grind (grind for gold to get horse or buy it) than without a cash shop.
That's unfortunate. One of the reasons why a lot of people have been asking for a decent sub-based game is to avoid just this kind of stink.
Pretty much this. This is why you should never ever white knight a company and/or game (regardless of the emotional attachment one may have). Just because someone says one thing does not mean it's going to be that way forever.
Suits: Grab as much money as you can before going F2P before the one year mark!
If they stated that from the first place, I'm sure no one would have any problems with it. However I'm going to quote the director of Zeni here:
“You pay once per month after the first 30 days and the entire game is available to you.”
“The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP.”
“There won’t be anything like ‘bonus points’ but we’ll have a shop to buy kinda fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that. But it’s not part of the core game, anything in the core game is included in the subscription price.”
“Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being “monetized” in the middle of playing the game…”
Obviously we are already pass the 100% access with imperial locked behind a paywall. But hey whatever, right? Now are we categorizing mounts with account services, like name changes? I'm sorry, you can say its a play on words or whatever, but people are not going to think mounts, cosmetic, with name changes. You are literally putting a price on gold right now, 17k equates to $10. Is there a difference for them to sell 17k gold for 10 bucks so we can just buy the damn mount in game? Nope. But hey. You guys can justify it however you want with excuses. But we been lied to, plain and simple.
I don't care how many times I have to repeat it; it's only a lie if they didn't mean it when they said it. Changing your mind, or being overruled by a higher authority, does not mean you lied. And none of us here are mind readers, so we don't know what they were thinking when those statements were made. All this calling people liars amounts to is an attempt at libel, plain and simple.
And if we're being realistic, there is already a price on gold in games. Anybody who wants to buy gold can find someone to sell it to them. Anything a player can manage to pay somebody to do for them is something the company making the game should be offering, so that they are the ones who get the money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.