If you have access to the white imperial horse why not just buy 2 imperial horses?
cash shop arguments don't phase me. i don't care if they add a full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop. If they do we'll all just play something else, they'll go under, and this old world will still be spinning.
It's not up to you to decide when someone else is wasting money. It's their money to spend as they see fit, and if they enjoy what they get for it, it wasn't a waste. And please, stop with the myth of the "Pay-To-Win" cash shop, no major game has ever had one.
It is a very fair statement that paying money for something you already have is a waste of money. Disagree all you want but I have the right to call it that if I like. The only reason to get the other horse is for the look. If they want the look that is one thing but we weren't talking cosmetics.
Stats-wise the cash horse is equivalent to the imperial horse which is inferior to the in-game bought 40k gold horses. This is the only point I made and anything else you are arguing about has nothing to do with any post i've made here.
And please, read the post before you reply. You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."
Screw that. I will support either revenue model guys, just not two in one game.. Seems like they are in maximize revenue mode already. Just like TSW, SWTOR, Champions Online and STO before them. I just get the feeling they are gearing up for a switch from sub to B2P/F2P. I hate when companies do that and I'll never play a mmo that switches revenue models. Played TSW and SWTOR until they made the switch and haven't been back since. It seems that once they switch revenue models they also switch mindsets from content (retention) to cater (enticement) , stick a fork in me, I'm done.
Good luck though, I still hope it does well and they stay focused on providing solid content for their players rather than catering to their players wallets.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Personally it's not enough to turn me away from the game, but it's certainly enough to ruin any level of trust going in, which hurts long term appeal. I mentioned in another thread the imperial edition was enough of a slap, considering it's my go to choice of race in TES, I had already come to grips with them being unavailable, then they started selling them. Now they completely change their tune on purchasable items. FOr me it's not the existence of a cash shop, it's the 180; I have enough of a problem placing trust in any company, that's before they start giving reasons not to trust them that I see in plain light.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'll take a cash shop any day over an RNG lock box system.
cash shops, IMO are expected in MMO's. Final Fantasy XIV is the only one that comes to mind that doesnt have one (and is a sub game). Why does this surprise any of you?
That's fair - especially the part where you said I'm not too excited in the first place. But let's be reasonable: are people really still falling for hype these days? Do I have to *really* be excited for a game before it's even out before my opinion is valid? I was going to buy the game. That should be enough to get me a seat at the table of this discussion.
The fastest way they could close my open mind is to have a full pay-to-play subscription model that sells mechanical advantages - no matter how slight or how temporary - at a premium. That's a mountain for me - abso-fucking-lutely.
I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. I'm just pointing out that the more excited someone is for the game, the less likely they are to see this as an issue even if they don't like it. If I had to guess, based on the success seen from adding cash shops in other games, they are probably going to make substantially more from decisions like this than they lose from disgruntled people who don't want RMTs in their sub games. And in the end, that is their job, to make as much money from the game as possible.
I think in the long run, players who decide to be extremely rigid when it comes to issues like this are going to eventually reach the point where they have to either bend or leave the genre entirely, because there just don't seem to be enough of them for the developers to care if they do leave. And it is starting to look like that point is coming sooner rather than later.
Originally posted by Randallt3mp
So where do you draw the line then? Or do you? What would it take from them for you to say hey "this isn't right, i dont like this." Don't give me some crazy exaggerated crap either. Give me a reasonable situation on a spectrum.
The problem is they aren't going to suddenly start slaughtering kittens on twitch (obv exaggerated). They will gradually see what they can get away with and before you know it you'll be spending alot more that you originally though you would have and things will have changed alot more than you expected.
Honestly? There are plenty of things where I would say "I don't like this," but I doubt I would ever say "This isn't right." To me, unless someone is forcing people to do something against their will, right and wrong don't enter into it, only like and dislike. If enough people dislike something they might change their minds, but I honestly doubt that the level of outrage over a sub-par horse that is only useful for 10-20 levels is going to be that high.
And no, I won't suddenly be spending a lot more, because I'm not a gambler or an addict. I look at each transaction individually, and decide whether the cost is worth the benefit. And I know you asked for specifics, but I'm going to give you a generality instead; if it ever reached the point where I had to spend more money than the subscription just to enjoy the game, and the amount more money they were asking was worth more to me than the fun I would get, I would dislike that, and I would stop playing. But I wouldn't rage on a forum, or accuse anyone of lying, or try to frame my personal distaste as a matter of High Moral Principle. I would just go do something else with my time.
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
And please, read the post before you reply. You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."
You said you didn't care if they added a "full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop." Something which doesn't appear to actually exist in any major game, so bringing up "Pay-to-Win" at all is just hyperbole.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Most MMO's offer a CE that includes a mount these days, ZoS are no different. However ZoS CE comes with an exclusive race that has exclusive passive and that irks me a little tbh, but I wanted the mount. My plan was to upgrade to imp edition at launch, but I wasn't exactly happy about supporting the race thing. This announcement means I can get a mount without supporting them selling a race as day one DLC, so it actually makes me pretty happy
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Distopia Personally it's not enough to turn me away from the game, but it's certainly enough to ruin any level of trust going in, which hurts long term appeal. I mentioned in another thread the imperial edition was enough of a slap, considering it's my go to choice of race in TES, I had already come to grips with them being unavailable, then they started selling them. Now they completely change their tune on purchasable items. FOr me it's not the existence of a cash shop, it's the 180; I have enough of a problem placing trust in any company, that's before they start giving reasons not to trust them that I see in plain light.
It left a sour taste in my mouth, but I let the whole Imperial race thing slide because I reckoned Imperials would be balanced with other races. It was, in theory, cosmetic. A big grey area, but I was willing to overlook it.
I admit, it was news to me that a 17k gold mount was being handed to people who forked over more money today. I thought it was something they just added to the cash-shop, when in reality, they already let players pay-to-win with the Imperial Edition... even if if only until players who paid less $$ earned 17k gold or whatever.
Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out. Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.
Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.
That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.
and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out. Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.
Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.
That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.
and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P
You're arguing semantics. I don't care about semantics.
Me: "This is not okay because it gives a mechanical advantage." You: "It is okay because the mechanical advantage you're getting is not always going to be useful because of X, Y and Z."
You've acknowledged that a mechanical advantage is being given in exchange for real money. You're trying to convince me it's not a big deal.
I don't care how big a deal it is - I'm not playing a subscription game that sells mechanical advantages (no matter how small) for a premium. End of story.
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.
That's because most people expect great cash shop kind of crap inside of a CE or expansion. What they don't expect is a Cash Shop even if it has one horse in it, because they were told there was going to be no cash shop.
I think in the end it wont matter, my ass is still playing because the fact of the matter is, a game like this only comes out every 10 years, and I'll take it and take it some more, no matter what they add to this game. Even if it goes free to play. Its still worth the hours and money I spend on it compared to all the other games out there.
And please, read the post before you reply. You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."
You said you didn't care if they added a "full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop." Something which doesn't appear to actually exist in any major game, so bringing up "Pay-to-Win" at all is just hyperbole.
Not really no. Hyperbole is an exaggeration. My intent was to convey my message literally exactly as I have written it. If you read anything other than precisely what was written you are in error.
It was not my intent to convey any hidden or deeper meaning.
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
its a valid point.
at the end of the day every dollar you spend on a game goes towards a virtual item to some extent.
Simply out, I am NOT playing against you... whoever you are. It's a horse. It doesn't make you stronger, it doesn't make you a better player, it's a convenience item. I'm getting a horse from my pre-order and most of the time I won't even use it as I'll be gathering resources. I'll only use it... as a convenience.
As long as all they sell are convenience items, I'm ok with it. I won't think more of you as a player because you have one and I won't think less of you as a person because you paid cash for one. As long as stats and gear and skills are earned, I'm perfectly ok with cosmetics and such are available in the cash shop SO LONG AS THEY ARE ALSO EARNABLE IN GAME. That's the kicker for me, if it can be earned in game by normal playing then I have no issues, but once they cross that line and offer things you can never earn in game then I would feel the subscription model has been violated.
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.
It's not a big mystery: a lot of us who are suddenly pissed off now didn't actually look closely enough at the Imperial Edition. I don't normally go for Deluxe Versions of games and all I really knew was you got the Imperial Race if you bought it. I gave that a pass as a cosmetic benefit - I'm assuming Imperials aren't designed to be the best race in the game, so - as long as it's balanced - it's technically cosmetic.
Moving the horse to the Cash Shop underlined, bold-faced and underscored a pay-to-win part of that Deluxe Version that I had overlooked. Obviously, others hadn't though... they complained and Zenimax's solution to the Imperial Version having a pay-to-win element was: "Fine, now you can pay a little less to win."
Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out. Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.
Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.
That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.
and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P
You're arguing semantics. I don't care about semantics.
Me: "This is not okay because it gives a mechanical advantage." You: "It is okay because the mechanical advantage you're getting is not always going to be useful because of X, Y and Z."
You've acknowledged that a mechanical advantage is being given in exchange for real money. You're trying to convince me it's not a big deal.
I don't care how big a deal it is - I'm not playing a subscription game that sells mechanical advantages (no matter how small) for a premium. End of story.
You knew the imps were getting horses, and you didn't flip out then? why flip out now? because they're offering another horse outside of an imperial upgrade? You're complaining about the same advantage you said so yourself you were willing to let slide when they're offering that same advantage to everybody for less.
You're just looking for something to complain about. End of story.
maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There's no squirming out of this one. This makes what they said last August/September appear deliberately misleading. Minus 10 credibility.
Also a very dumb PR move that fuels one of the favorite hater digs at the game... a dig we've been telling them for months was unwarranted... guess what? It no longer is.
PS: in the beta forums that are normally gushing with giddy positive comments the night before a beta test, this has been at the top of the general "Sanguine" section for quite a while... the poll there is now running 77% against.
Thank you for having the backbone to call it. I have a lot of respect for that.
I really don't mind a cash shop or that they're selling a horse in it. I mind that Matt Firor wasn't honest. I mind that ZO went to great lengths to justify a sub while taking subtle (or not so subtle) shots at the sub-free cash shop model. I think they should have been honest from the beginning, but there isn't a lot of PR wiggle room with that.
Turbine and LotRO was the last gaming company I played that blatantly lied and said one thing while doing something else all the while pointing in another direction and denying it. They were truly masters of the smoke and mirror tactics.
Yeah, I'm not ok with this move either. I'm done with Cash Shops, and I am certainly not a supporter of double-dipping. I was fully on board to support Matt in his vision with ESO being a pure sub model, but now..?
Doing a 180 is bad enough, but the timing of it really bothers me. They are betting that people's hype and excitement this close to launch and of another Beta weekend will buffer or completely override this proto-Cash Shop announcement. In my mind, that's an intentional manipulation and leads me to suspect that they have full plans for more on the near horizon.
Comments
First Horses, then gears then eventually XP potions and exclusive contents.
Disappointing to say the least Zenmiax.
It is a very fair statement that paying money for something you already have is a waste of money. Disagree all you want but I have the right to call it that if I like. The only reason to get the other horse is for the look. If they want the look that is one thing but we weren't talking cosmetics.
Stats-wise the cash horse is equivalent to the imperial horse which is inferior to the in-game bought 40k gold horses. This is the only point I made and anything else you are arguing about has nothing to do with any post i've made here.
And please, read the post before you reply. You obviously did not because I never started "with the myth of the Pay-To-Win cash shop."
Screw that. I will support either revenue model guys, just not two in one game.. Seems like they are in maximize revenue mode already. Just like TSW, SWTOR, Champions Online and STO before them. I just get the feeling they are gearing up for a switch from sub to B2P/F2P. I hate when companies do that and I'll never play a mmo that switches revenue models. Played TSW and SWTOR until they made the switch and haven't been back since. It seems that once they switch revenue models they also switch mindsets from content (retention) to cater (enticement) , stick a fork in me, I'm done.
Good luck though, I still hope it does well and they stay focused on providing solid content for their players rather than catering to their players wallets.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'll take a cash shop any day over an RNG lock box system.
cash shops, IMO are expected in MMO's. Final Fantasy XIV is the only one that comes to mind that doesnt have one (and is a sub game). Why does this surprise any of you?
I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. I'm just pointing out that the more excited someone is for the game, the less likely they are to see this as an issue even if they don't like it. If I had to guess, based on the success seen from adding cash shops in other games, they are probably going to make substantially more from decisions like this than they lose from disgruntled people who don't want RMTs in their sub games. And in the end, that is their job, to make as much money from the game as possible.
I think in the long run, players who decide to be extremely rigid when it comes to issues like this are going to eventually reach the point where they have to either bend or leave the genre entirely, because there just don't seem to be enough of them for the developers to care if they do leave. And it is starting to look like that point is coming sooner rather than later.
Honestly? There are plenty of things where I would say "I don't like this," but I doubt I would ever say "This isn't right." To me, unless someone is forcing people to do something against their will, right and wrong don't enter into it, only like and dislike. If enough people dislike something they might change their minds, but I honestly doubt that the level of outrage over a sub-par horse that is only useful for 10-20 levels is going to be that high.
And no, I won't suddenly be spending a lot more, because I'm not a gambler or an addict. I look at each transaction individually, and decide whether the cost is worth the benefit. And I know you asked for specifics, but I'm going to give you a generality instead; if it ever reached the point where I had to spend more money than the subscription just to enjoy the game, and the amount more money they were asking was worth more to me than the fun I would get, I would dislike that, and I would stop playing. But I wouldn't rage on a forum, or accuse anyone of lying, or try to frame my personal distaste as a matter of High Moral Principle. I would just go do something else with my time.
You said you didn't care if they added a "full blown Pay-To-Win cash shop." Something which doesn't appear to actually exist in any major game, so bringing up "Pay-to-Win" at all is just hyperbole.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Whats more concerning is that the imperial race is locked behind that cash shop too.
You should get that with your sub fee, There is no excuse other than greed why this should not be.
As for the horse, w/e.
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maybe this has been said here (I haven't seen it yet but it could be here): how is this worse than buying the imperial Edition?
I mean, "buy the imperial edition" and get all sorts of stuff and a horse. Or, if you don't want "all sorts of stuff" then you can just buy the horse for less than the imperial edition.
My thought is that if you are against this then you are against the Imperial Edition as well (which may be).
And of course there is the obvious (we aren't going to have a cash shop) which is even a larger issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It left a sour taste in my mouth, but I let the whole Imperial race thing slide because I reckoned Imperials would be balanced with other races. It was, in theory, cosmetic. A big grey area, but I was willing to overlook it.
I admit, it was news to me that a 17k gold mount was being handed to people who forked over more money today. I thought it was something they just added to the cash-shop, when in reality, they already let players pay-to-win with the Imperial Edition... even if if only until players who paid less $$ earned 17k gold or whatever.
That's just not gonna fly for a lot of people.
Considering that they gave Imperials white horses, I'm not really sure how this news update is hate-worthy. That status quo has already been set the minute preorder info came out. Maybe they just offered the opportunity to those who were complaining about Imps getting a horse or what not.. you know, like what they said on the interview. They're not going to hand them out for free, obviously; After all, the imps paid for them.. that wouldn't be equitable.
Now if you're really worried about that mechanical advantage in AvA, consider this: A basic horse grants 15% move speed.. Retreating Maneuver grants 33, Boundless Storm (sorc skill) grants 30 (I think?). It would take that horse 48 days to be as fast as you (if you rolled sorc, at least.. dunno for the other 3 classes) If you really wanted to chase him down, you could do so easily. He won't be turning very quick, he won't be using any skills while mounted, and he certainly won't be able to defend himself until you get your opening.
That is, if you really wanted to chase him down, or escape, you would build yourself towards doing so, and not wait 48 days for a horse to do it for you. Unless you really just want to complain about something.
and /in before ad hominem because I'm a 1 poster imp :P
It does seem a little mind-boggling that several posters who expressed no problem with either the Imperial Edition or the post-launch ability to pay $20 in the "services" shop to upgrade to the Imperial Edition seem shocked and appalled now that they have essentially taken the Imperial Horse, slapped a different skin on it, and offered to charge less.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You're arguing semantics. I don't care about semantics.
Me: "This is not okay because it gives a mechanical advantage."
You: "It is okay because the mechanical advantage you're getting is not always going to be useful because of X, Y and Z."
You've acknowledged that a mechanical advantage is being given in exchange for real money. You're trying to convince me it's not a big deal.
I don't care how big a deal it is - I'm not playing a subscription game that sells mechanical advantages (no matter how small) for a premium. End of story.
That's because most people expect great cash shop kind of crap inside of a CE or expansion. What they don't expect is a Cash Shop even if it has one horse in it, because they were told there was going to be no cash shop.
I think in the end it wont matter, my ass is still playing because the fact of the matter is, a game like this only comes out every 10 years, and I'll take it and take it some more, no matter what they add to this game. Even if it goes free to play. Its still worth the hours and money I spend on it compared to all the other games out there.
Not really no. Hyperbole is an exaggeration. My intent was to convey my message literally exactly as I have written it. If you read anything other than precisely what was written you are in error.
It was not my intent to convey any hidden or deeper meaning.
its a valid point.
at the end of the day every dollar you spend on a game goes towards a virtual item to some extent.
At the risk of being controversial...
I
Don't
Care
Simply out, I am NOT playing against you... whoever you are. It's a horse. It doesn't make you stronger, it doesn't make you a better player, it's a convenience item. I'm getting a horse from my pre-order and most of the time I won't even use it as I'll be gathering resources. I'll only use it... as a convenience.
As long as all they sell are convenience items, I'm ok with it. I won't think more of you as a player because you have one and I won't think less of you as a person because you paid cash for one. As long as stats and gear and skills are earned, I'm perfectly ok with cosmetics and such are available in the cash shop SO LONG AS THEY ARE ALSO EARNABLE IN GAME. That's the kicker for me, if it can be earned in game by normal playing then I have no issues, but once they cross that line and offer things you can never earn in game then I would feel the subscription model has been violated.
Just my 2 cents.
It's not a big mystery: a lot of us who are suddenly pissed off now didn't actually look closely enough at the Imperial Edition. I don't normally go for Deluxe Versions of games and all I really knew was you got the Imperial Race if you bought it. I gave that a pass as a cosmetic benefit - I'm assuming Imperials aren't designed to be the best race in the game, so - as long as it's balanced - it's technically cosmetic.
Moving the horse to the Cash Shop underlined, bold-faced and underscored a pay-to-win part of that Deluxe Version that I had overlooked. Obviously, others hadn't though... they complained and Zenimax's solution to the Imperial Version having a pay-to-win element was: "Fine, now you can pay a little less to win."
It's very unwelcome news to me.
You knew the imps were getting horses, and you didn't flip out then? why flip out now? because they're offering another horse outside of an imperial upgrade? You're complaining about the same advantage you said so yourself you were willing to let slide when they're offering that same advantage to everybody for less.
You're just looking for something to complain about. End of story.
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That sombrero is immersion breaking!
Yeah, I'm not ok with this move either. I'm done with Cash Shops, and I am certainly not a supporter of double-dipping. I was fully on board to support Matt in his vision with ESO being a pure sub model, but now..?
Doing a 180 is bad enough, but the timing of it really bothers me. They are betting that people's hype and excitement this close to launch and of another Beta weekend will buffer or completely override this proto-Cash Shop announcement. In my mind, that's an intentional manipulation and leads me to suspect that they have full plans for more on the near horizon.