I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
I think a lot of that has been self reflective. IE people kicking themselves in the ass over defending ZOS on this very issue in the past.
I do agree with the part about expectations, but it's hard to defend ZOS here in that they are who set those expectations verbally.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world," he said, explaining the former point. "We don't want players to hit monetisation fees when they're in the world.
We wanted to do monetisation outside of the game. So, if I pay for a month at a time, I have 100 per cent of the game. I don't have to worry about paying one more cent. I'll never run into a pay gate and I'll be in the world."
And before you yell "wow did it too!", let me say 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Just wanted to point out, this isn't an issue of right and wrong. It's an issue about video games.
Would it be better if I worded it for you this way Mr. Knit Picky?
2 ethically questionable business practice decisions from video game companies does not equal an ethically sound/moral business practice decision from a video game company.
Its not about ethics or morals either its simply different payment models of which you don't have to choose any.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world," he said, explaining the former point. "We don't want players to hit monetisation fees when they're in the world.
We wanted to do monetisation outside of the game. So, if I pay for a month at a time, I have 100 per cent of the game. I don't have to worry about paying one more cent. I'll never run into a pay gate and I'll be in the world."
-Matt Firor
Well, technically you can get a horse without paying a dime. Just earn it in game. The horse isn't the issue. The issue is "what else are they willing to put there".
I'll tell you these guys have no clue about how to handle P.R.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ok, I stepped back and thought about the impact of having a horse for sale in a Cash Store....
1. 17k gold, that crafters wont be able to sell their good to someone for. It all goes to the company instead.
2. They lied. Now that you cant believe what they said.
3. Will there be End Game gear for sale? Will legendary Upgrade items be for sale later? They already hurt the crafter once, will they do this again at End Game?
4. Can we trust them to never do this again? Will they sell Siege weapons someday, or wall building materials?
I wonder if I can buy another horse and feed it something different to make it maybe a pack mule. I already have one horse from the CE, probably gonna make it a fast horse.
I have, and I understand that you feel betrayed about the game having a cash shop.
However, I don't understand how an out-of-combat 15% speed buff with a 1something second cast time and a knockdown penalty if hit (i.e. a mount) of a tier that most people will be skipping anyway that has an ingame cost of what you would normally get within your first three days of playing for real money is game breaking. If I wasn't an imp, I would be inclined to call those people idiots. In the bigger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Now, if they were selling the top tier mounts, that is a problem.
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
I admit, I'm surprised in this day-in-age when people gripe about cash shops in general.
In my opinion, there are two types of acceptable cash-shops.
A. The Free-to-Play Based Cash-Shops that sells both Cosmetic benefits and mechanical benefits that you can also get in game.
and
B. The Pay-to-Play Subscription Based Cash-Shop that sells *only* Cosmetic benefits.
What Zenimax is doing is *not* acceptable. They are using a Free-To-Play Cash Shop model in a Pay-to-Play Subscription Based game. That's not just a slippery slope - we've already tripped ass-first and started falling. It's just a question of how far down Zenimax is willing to make the drop.
I have, and I understand that you feel betrayed about the game having a cash shop.
However, I don't understand how an out-of-combat 15% speed buff with a 1something second cast time and a knockdown penalty if hit (i.e. a mount) of a tier that most people will be skipping anyway that has an ingame cost of what you would normally get within your first three days of playing for real money is game breaking. If I wasn't an imp, I would be inclined to call those people idiots. In the bigger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Now, if they were selling the top tier mounts, that is a problem.
LOL, we seem to have this talent of posting within seconds of each other... after I address what you just posted about. Read my post just after yours. TESO having a cash shop doesn't bother me - it's what they're selling in it.
Originally posted by Fearum This site is full of Drama Queens. Its a f*cking mount, you can buy them in any game with a cash shop, sub or not since WoW introduced them in 1978.
No problem with the mount, just take away the speed boost from it and make it cosmetic...problem solved. Players can even pay 17K to boost the speed = to in game mounts.
I do agree there as well, it's really no different, that being said; I'm not seeing much in the way of bile filled posts here just yet. Mostly people calling ZOS out over their own statements.
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world," he said, explaining the former point. "We don't want players to hit monetisation fees when they're in the world.
We wanted to do monetisation outside of the game. So, if I pay for a month at a time, I have 100 per cent of the game. I don't have to worry about paying one more cent. I'll never run into a pay gate and I'll be in the world."
-Matt Firor
Well, technically you can get a horse without paying a dime. Just earn it in game. The horse isn't the issue. The issue is "what else are they willing to put there".
I'll tell you these guys have no clue about how to handle P.R.
Can one of you rich young mogul MMORPG playboys explain to me what is the purpose of a subscription model if you have a nickel and dime cash shop on top of that?
If they want more money from people why not absorb the cost into the subscription?
Or sell some f#%king t-shirts and coffee mugs or something?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Originally posted by Fearum This site is full of Drama Queens. Its a f*cking mount, you can buy them in any game with a cash shop, sub or not since WoW introduced them in 1978.
No problem with the mount, just take away the speed boost from it and make it cosmetic...problem solved.
+1.
New players don't get 17k gold very quickly. It's one heck of an advantage to have at the starting gate because you paid $80 rather than $60.
Can one of you rich young mogul MMORPG playboys explain to me what is the purpose of a subscription model if you have a nickel and dime cash shop on top of that?
If they want more money from people why not absorb the cost into the subscription?
Or sell some f#%king t-shirts and coffee mugs or something?
Originally posted by Knotwood One question.... what the price of this horse. It might be worth it to cancel the pre order CE edition now and get a standard.
I doubt it would be $20 or $5, so $10? But I wouldn't be shocked if it was $20.
It would be shocking if it was $20, because $20 is what it costs to get a horse, a race, and the ability to convert any armor to Imperial. More than ten would be surprising.
Only we don't know what the upgrade will cost in the cash shop. Once the game is live it could be 30 or 40 to upgrade and 20 for the horse. I wouldn't think so, but...
I have, and I understand that you feel betrayed about the game having a cash shop.
However, I don't understand how an out-of-combat 15% speed buff with a 1something second cast time and a knockdown penalty if hit (i.e. a mount) of a tier that most people will be skipping anyway that has an ingame cost of what you would normally get within your first three days of playing for real money is game breaking. If I wasn't an imp, I would be inclined to call those people idiots. In the bigger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Now, if they were selling the top tier mounts, that is a problem.
LOL, we seem to have this talent of posting within seconds of each other... after I address what you just posted about. Read my post just after yours. TESO having a cash shop doesn't bother me - it's what they're selling in it.
LOL, that we do.. you must have ESP or something.
I get where you're coming from.. it's not about the horse per se, but that a mechanical advantage being sold in addition to a sub. There's not much the community can do about that except not use the shop if you really want ESO, seek business elsewhere if you can do without ESO, or maybe start a suit witch hunt.
As long as they don't pull an oblivion-level blunder where they start selling "horse armor" DLC, I think I can deal with mounts in a cash shop. WoW does it, and it hasn't bothered me nearly as much as I thought it would. Probably because the mount selection is small, expensive, and separated from the hundreds of mounts available through normal means.
Maybe ESO will do the same, or maybe they'll screw it up and simply offer everything in game available for sell in the cash shop as well. I'm not going to start claiming gloom and doom before it's released.
Originally posted by Fearum This site is full of Drama Queens. Its a f*cking mount, you can buy them in any game with a cash shop, sub or not since WoW introduced them in 1978.
No problem with the mount, just take away the speed boost from it and make it cosmetic...problem solved.
+1.
New players don't get 17k gold very quickly. It's one heck of an advantage to have at the starting gate because you paid $80 rather than $60.
I'm not for neutering mounts, but I don't have a problem if I have to pay full gold price for the white horse.
Can one of you rich young mogul MMORPG playboys explain to me what is the purpose of a subscription model if you have a nickel and dime cash shop on top of that?
If they want more money from people why not absorb the cost into the subscription?
Or sell some f#%king t-shirts and coffee mugs or something?
Yeah a mount in the cash shop, its the end of the world. Soon we will have a max level toon for $60, whats this world coming too...
But the subscription is for what? Oh and YES, its all about that lone single mount in that itty bitty teeny weeny cash shop that's not going to sell anything else that should be covered by the subscription.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Comments
That's only because this is for the fallout MMO not ESO. The player's clothes should have been a dead give away.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And it's perfectly fair to be irritated that, as you put it, they did a 180. I just think it is overly dramatic when people start ranting about "lies," and I never thought it was reasonable to expect there would never be a cash shop, regardless of what they said. The only surprising thing here is that they ever said there wouldn't be one in the first place.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I think a lot of that has been self reflective. IE people kicking themselves in the ass over defending ZOS on this very issue in the past.
I do agree with the part about expectations, but it's hard to defend ZOS here in that they are who set those expectations verbally.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I now expect Shadowmere will be in the cash shop at the same time the Dark Brotherhood quest line is added to the game.
"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world," he said, explaining the former point. "We don't want players to hit monetisation fees when they're in the world.
We wanted to do monetisation outside of the game. So, if I pay for a month at a time, I have 100 per cent of the game. I don't have to worry about paying one more cent. I'll never run into a pay gate and I'll be in the world."
-Matt Firor
Its not about ethics or morals either its simply different payment models of which you don't have to choose any.
I guess I am a little annoyed, I really only bought the digital CE for the horse, so it appears I could have saved a few bucks.
But what the heck, it's only money.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, technically you can get a horse without paying a dime. Just earn it in game. The horse isn't the issue. The issue is "what else are they willing to put there".
I'll tell you these guys have no clue about how to handle P.R.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ok, I stepped back and thought about the impact of having a horse for sale in a Cash Store....
1. 17k gold, that crafters wont be able to sell their good to someone for. It all goes to the company instead.
2. They lied. Now that you cant believe what they said.
3. Will there be End Game gear for sale? Will legendary Upgrade items be for sale later? They already hurt the crafter once, will they do this again at End Game?
4. Can we trust them to never do this again? Will they sell Siege weapons someday, or wall building materials?
I have, and I understand that you feel betrayed about the game having a cash shop.
However, I don't understand how an out-of-combat 15% speed buff with a 1something second cast time and a knockdown penalty if hit (i.e. a mount) of a tier that most people will be skipping anyway that has an ingame cost of what you would normally get within your first three days of playing for real money is game breaking. If I wasn't an imp, I would be inclined to call those people idiots. In the bigger scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Now, if they were selling the top tier mounts, that is a problem.
I admit, I'm surprised in this day-in-age when people gripe about cash shops in general.
In my opinion, there are two types of acceptable cash-shops.
A. The Free-to-Play Based Cash-Shops that sells both Cosmetic benefits and mechanical benefits that you can also get in game.
and
B. The Pay-to-Play Subscription Based Cash-Shop that sells *only* Cosmetic benefits.
What Zenimax is doing is *not* acceptable. They are using a Free-To-Play Cash Shop model in a Pay-to-Play Subscription Based game. That's not just a slippery slope - we've already tripped ass-first and started falling. It's just a question of how far down Zenimax is willing to make the drop.
LOL, we seem to have this talent of posting within seconds of each other... after I address what you just posted about. Read my post just after yours. TESO having a cash shop doesn't bother me - it's what they're selling in it.
LOL ESO is launching with a cash shop $60 + $15 per month is not enough money OMG
IF it's not setting up to fall back on F2P why is their a cash shop at launch
Zinnamax wants to make their 30 Mil and then who cares what happons next it's SWTOR all over again
At least SWTOR did not have a cash shop at Launch
I am saddened to see TES fall down the path of greed and kick the real core TES fans to the dirt
No problem with the mount, just take away the speed boost from it and make it cosmetic...problem solved. Players can even pay 17K to boost the speed = to in game mounts.
Can one of you rich young mogul MMORPG playboys explain to me what is the purpose of a subscription model if you have a nickel and dime cash shop on top of that?
If they want more money from people why not absorb the cost into the subscription?
Or sell some f#%king t-shirts and coffee mugs or something?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1.
New players don't get 17k gold very quickly. It's one heck of an advantage to have at the starting gate because you paid $80 rather than $60.
http://store.bethsoft.com/apparel/mens/t-shirts.html?brand=166
There is a T-shirt for ya.
Yeah a mount in the cash shop, its the end of the world. Soon we will have a max level toon for $60, whats this world coming too...
Only we don't know what the upgrade will cost in the cash shop. Once the game is live it could be 30 or 40 to upgrade and 20 for the horse. I wouldn't think so, but...
LOL, that we do.. you must have ESP or something.
I get where you're coming from.. it's not about the horse per se, but that a mechanical advantage being sold in addition to a sub. There's not much the community can do about that except not use the shop if you really want ESO, seek business elsewhere if you can do without ESO, or maybe start a suit witch hunt.
As long as they don't pull an oblivion-level blunder where they start selling "horse armor" DLC, I think I can deal with mounts in a cash shop. WoW does it, and it hasn't bothered me nearly as much as I thought it would. Probably because the mount selection is small, expensive, and separated from the hundreds of mounts available through normal means.
Maybe ESO will do the same, or maybe they'll screw it up and simply offer everything in game available for sell in the cash shop as well. I'm not going to start claiming gloom and doom before it's released.
You make me like charity
I'm not for neutering mounts, but I don't have a problem if I have to pay full gold price for the white horse.
But the subscription is for what? Oh and YES, its all about that lone single mount in that itty bitty teeny weeny cash shop that's not going to sell anything else that should be covered by the subscription.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯