So...does this mean West Coast players have the same right to complain about the location of the US server (East Coast) as the European players, right?
I was on both sides of the country for two of the weekend sessions, didn't notice a difference. And that's just as much, if not more, 'distance lag' inducing as going home to Germany and playing there. The only ones I feel bad for are the Aussies/extreme east Asia. They are always getting shafted on servers.
I don't get all the fuzz about the supposed "lag from hell" we euro's are supposed the experience. I played the beta and except from "the stress test lag" I didn't fell any lag or disadvantage compared to my american peers, heck I was even competitive in Cyrodill and managed to kill US players.
Those crying about 300-500ms latency ...have you guys ever pinged a server in the US? infrastructure has improved drastically and while pinging random servers on speedtest.net I get varying latencies of 80ms-120ms, which in the end is way more than enough to not be at a disavantage in PvP.
Now if ZeniMax have at least some form of a brain they will make sure they have the best possible routing setup with their partners so that EU players will experience the least amount of latency possible.
Internet speeds have increased enough over the years that lag is much less of an issue than it used to be. Any ping under about 120-150 should be barely noticeable for most people, which is exactly the type of ping someone in EU can expect. I say this as a gamer in Alaska, where I actually have worse ping than EU when it comes to connecting to east coast servers.
It's not like the early days of broadband, where being able to pick a close server meant the difference between a 50ms ping and a 300 ms unplayable ping.
Plus, splitting the concept of only having one mega server thing starts to fall apart when you are trying to deploy regional servers all over the place.
If it really bothers you, I suggest you support the variety of EU-based MMO developers and play their products instead.
Originally posted by blazzen67 its only going to be in the Us for launch, it will be moved to EU with in the first few weeks of the game. nothing at all to worry about
Really?
did you ever do a server move?
there is so much that can and will go wrong with big projects like this..
we can expect atleast 3 days of downtime when they change sites
as i said there is not a single valid reason not to have servers in europe at release..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
For those that said ping 150ish is acceptable, having an additional 100 ms ping makes finely tuned raising unplayable- especially whoever the server runs sub - optimally, there's just no slack with that, So if they are aiming for a raiding guild player base they need to get a grip because that ain't gonna cut it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
They first say that they will move the servers as soon as the game is stable and all that. Then they say the game will be stable at launch(hehehe) but they don`t move the servers to Europe they wait for after launch...
They can work on the server remotely its 2014 not 1994 so that is a non issue...
I think they just slacked... but i would like to be able to play with as little lag as possible, i know some say it doesn`t matter but i remember the old FPS days when 50ms would be intolerable... and this MMO is close enough with all the blocking/dodging.
Nobody likes to see what the NPC did 0.3 seconds ago and then to push a button only to lose 0.3 more seconds to get to the server... by that time you are 0.6 seconds behind due to the connection and you will die even if its not your fault. Well in some way it is your fault for accepting to play with such a delay and paying them to give you this experience.
I guess i am a MILLION times more experienced than their very best network people?Well i guess longevity does offer more experience over quick noobs out of college.
I have been monitoring ping/latency issues for MANY years way back to the early days of Doom,then Quake and unreal.
I can have a 25 ping "so says the ping "and have tons of lag,so bad it is noticeable.Then i can have a very good experience with 120 ping which is normal for Canada>EU.
The thing is that you can never predict lag issues based on a vague statement like they gave us.Example the USA is HUGE there is a definite difference just going from the west coast to the east coast let alone then to Europe.In Canada i would experience the same issues as EU players will to the USA.It is hit n miss ,it can be sooooo bad you want to quit gaming ,so for them to make a claim it won't affect game play is an outright lie.
Matter of FACT even the recently added ZERO ping programs are not perfect,bottom line is the information still has to go from your PC to the server.If there is a hiccup on the packet loss even 1% can lose information that can completely remove a turn.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Zenimax is just in it for the money. Just think about all the things they did (imperial race, horse cash shop). This is just the next logical step. No EU servers in Europe mean they save money. There is no other reason. It wouldn't even suprise me if there never will be EU located servers. (remember all the lies they told?) Just vote with your wallet, dont' become a cashbag for zeni.
And don't argue with "it doesn't affect you so much". Why are you defending Zenimax so much? What's your interest in seeing them have even bigger profits? Are you a shareholder?
If, as Zenimax say, there is no different in the game experience why would Zenimax say that they are looking at opening datacentres in Europe?
And - as mentioned - if the game is stable why do they then say they will look at EU servers when the game is stable?
As BadOrb and VGamer say I suspect that this is purely a business decision. They want to use cheaper overflow servers before they implement other datacentres.
As some have mentioned lag - which is more of a factor in PvP - is somewhat hit and miss depending on local ISPs, number of hops etc. The location of the servers however is a factor.
Bottonline: for a number of people this will be a reason to "put off" buying ESO on day 1.
I also wonder what there plan for maintenance patches is. Even if everything is located in the US one can hope that they have "timed" updates.
I dont think that the lag will be that disaterous. First of all everyone playing from EU is affected by the same average latency so it basically evens out for every player. ESO isnt a twich shooter where you can get one shotted by one skill similar to a headshot. Most of the time you have ample time to react to the situation. If there would really be lag issues there would have been way more feedback on the forums concerning lag. Especially from the EU people playing since month on the PTS. I havent seen an mmo yet where a lag difference between 50ms and 150ms were really noticeable.
Stupid,... Need servers on this side of the ocean. Was thinking about getting this game, but now with this news I won't. Hate lag and latency issues. Thanks for making this more easy.
Playing: TESO (great!) ************** Most looking forward for: Everquest Next ************** Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
If, as Zenimax say, there is no different in the game experience why would Zenimax say that they are looking at opening datacentres in Europe?
And - as mentioned - if the game is stable why do they then say they will look at EU servers when the game is stable?
As BadOrb and VGamer say I suspect that this is purely a business decision. They want to use cheaper overflow servers before they implement other datacentres.
As some have mentioned lag - which is more of a factor in PvP - is somewhat hit and miss depending on local ISPs, number of hops etc. The location of the servers however is a factor.
Bottonline: for a number of people this will be a reason to "put off" buying ESO on day 1.
I also wonder what there plan for maintenance patches is. Even if everything is located in the US one can hope that they have "timed" updates.
Probably because they know that saying otherwise means one group of people will just whine and complain. And if they ever do decide to open a datacenter there, for whatever reason, another group of people entirely will just whine and complain about "being lied to" or whatever.
The MMO community is one of the worst groups of people any company could ever hope to deal with.
" the location of these servers is not going to affect the gameplay experience" - ESO Zenimax
"our testing has now confirmed that millions of players from Europe (and beyond) can play on our North American server and experience ESO as it was designed—without latency or lag problems." - ESO Zenimax
Full Paragraph below:
In addition to gameplay changes, your time in testing also helps us to address and plan for less obvious improvements as well. The worldwide interest in ESO is gratifying but staggering, and each test we run allows us to prepare for a large number of players during our launch phase, and allocate resources as needed. We have constructed large datacenters in North America and in Europe to support this game. North America is fully operational and our European datacenter will be soon, but we have found during our beta tests that the location of these servers is not going to affect the gameplay experience. Our testing has now confirmed that millions of players from Europe (and beyond) can play on our North American server and experience ESO as it was designed—without latency or lag problems. (Please note that users in our last scale test had lag issues, especially in Cyrodiil, but this was a game bug, not a location issue – all players, no matter where, experienced that particular problem). So, regardless of a player’s location or the datacenter being used, the confirmed efficiency of our platform architecture will prevent anyone from enjoying a gameplay advantage. And as both datacenters become fully operational, we will continue to add capacity to meet the demands of gamers worldwide.
You are either a paid shill poster, a troll or just stupid.
There is no way anyone in Europe can expect to play competitively with 150 ms + ping they will most likely have from playing on a US based server. To me it just comes off as lazy that Zenimax can't even be bothered to serve the other hemisphere correctly which most of their competitors have.
What i dont get is people arguing that there will be no lag or higher ping or that it will not degrade your gaming expirience..... Realy ? come on putt of those rose tinted glasses and use your brains....
I understand that its a HUGE investment to setup and keep a fully datacenter running, let alone buying all servers and installing it all. But you make money, and you should invest a portion of that money to show your product buyers that their money is used to offer quality....not a cash grab.
If those servers will not be installed here in EU within a quick timeframe then they just destroyed their whole tradename. It will be forever tainted as cash grabbers, if EU needs to keep playing with severe lag or high pings then you already doomed your game here on this continent.
On the other hand, if they hold true on their word, then no problem. People can live with it. Its only for a short week or 2 after all, so no probs.
They should not promise something they can deliver tough, if they dont then people have a right to ask their money back and that is going to hurt the most. All the people on all forums will produce 1 massive outcry how they got robbed.
I hope Zenimax keep their words and they know they cant break that promise So wait and see guys, i have faith they wont let it come that far.
I don't see how there is a dispute to that... to play with 30ms or 150-200ms not to mention the packet losses we will have cause it's over the atlantic. I hope they move the servers ASAP otherwise Europe will just quit the game cause there will be lag no doubt about that, the beta had it so will the full game. First ever subscription based mainstream MMORPG without servers in Europe....
Comments
So...does this mean West Coast players have the same right to complain about the location of the US server (East Coast) as the European players, right?
I was on both sides of the country for two of the weekend sessions, didn't notice a difference. And that's just as much, if not more, 'distance lag' inducing as going home to Germany and playing there. The only ones I feel bad for are the Aussies/extreme east Asia. They are always getting shafted on servers.
Some people really do complain just to complain.
I don't get all the fuzz about the supposed "lag from hell" we euro's are supposed the experience. I played the beta and except from "the stress test lag" I didn't fell any lag or disadvantage compared to my american peers, heck I was even competitive in Cyrodill and managed to kill US players.
Those crying about 300-500ms latency ...have you guys ever pinged a server in the US? infrastructure has improved drastically and while pinging random servers on speedtest.net I get varying latencies of 80ms-120ms, which in the end is way more than enough to not be at a disavantage in PvP.
Now if ZeniMax have at least some form of a brain they will make sure they have the best possible routing setup with their partners so that EU players will experience the least amount of latency possible.
Internet speeds have increased enough over the years that lag is much less of an issue than it used to be. Any ping under about 120-150 should be barely noticeable for most people, which is exactly the type of ping someone in EU can expect. I say this as a gamer in Alaska, where I actually have worse ping than EU when it comes to connecting to east coast servers.
It's not like the early days of broadband, where being able to pick a close server meant the difference between a 50ms ping and a 300 ms unplayable ping.
Plus, splitting the concept of only having one mega server thing starts to fall apart when you are trying to deploy regional servers all over the place.
If it really bothers you, I suggest you support the variety of EU-based MMO developers and play their products instead.
You make me like charity
Really?
did you ever do a server move?
there is so much that can and will go wrong with big projects like this..
we can expect atleast 3 days of downtime when they change sites
as i said there is not a single valid reason not to have servers in europe at release..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Official hype-piece "feature" on MMORPG.COM
"Why having all servers located in the US is not so bad"
incoming in 3, 2, 1....
They first say that they will move the servers as soon as the game is stable and all that. Then they say the game will be stable at launch(hehehe) but they don`t move the servers to Europe they wait for after launch...
They can work on the server remotely its 2014 not 1994 so that is a non issue...
I think they just slacked... but i would like to be able to play with as little lag as possible, i know some say it doesn`t matter but i remember the old FPS days when 50ms would be intolerable... and this MMO is close enough with all the blocking/dodging.
Nobody likes to see what the NPC did 0.3 seconds ago and then to push a button only to lose 0.3 more seconds to get to the server... by that time you are 0.6 seconds behind due to the connection and you will die even if its not your fault. Well in some way it is your fault for accepting to play with such a delay and paying them to give you this experience.
I guess i am a MILLION times more experienced than their very best network people?Well i guess longevity does offer more experience over quick noobs out of college.
I have been monitoring ping/latency issues for MANY years way back to the early days of Doom,then Quake and unreal.
I can have a 25 ping "so says the ping "and have tons of lag,so bad it is noticeable.Then i can have a very good experience with 120 ping which is normal for Canada>EU.
The thing is that you can never predict lag issues based on a vague statement like they gave us.Example the USA is HUGE there is a definite difference just going from the west coast to the east coast let alone then to Europe.In Canada i would experience the same issues as EU players will to the USA.It is hit n miss ,it can be sooooo bad you want to quit gaming ,so for them to make a claim it won't affect game play is an outright lie.
Matter of FACT even the recently added ZERO ping programs are not perfect,bottom line is the information still has to go from your PC to the server.If there is a hiccup on the packet loss even 1% can lose information that can completely remove a turn.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Zenimax is just in it for the money. Just think about all the things they did (imperial race, horse cash shop). This is just the next logical step. No EU servers in Europe mean they save money. There is no other reason. It wouldn't even suprise me if there never will be EU located servers. (remember all the lies they told?) Just vote with your wallet, dont' become a cashbag for zeni.
And don't argue with "it doesn't affect you so much". Why are you defending Zenimax so much? What's your interest in seeing them have even bigger profits? Are you a shareholder?
If, as Zenimax say, there is no different in the game experience why would Zenimax say that they are looking at opening datacentres in Europe?
And - as mentioned - if the game is stable why do they then say they will look at EU servers when the game is stable?
As BadOrb and VGamer say I suspect that this is purely a business decision. They want to use cheaper overflow servers before they implement other datacentres.
As some have mentioned lag - which is more of a factor in PvP - is somewhat hit and miss depending on local ISPs, number of hops etc. The location of the servers however is a factor.
Bottonline: for a number of people this will be a reason to "put off" buying ESO on day 1.
I also wonder what there plan for maintenance patches is. Even if everything is located in the US one can hope that they have "timed" updates.
Stupid,... Need servers on this side of the ocean. Was thinking about getting this game, but now with this news I won't. Hate lag and latency issues. Thanks for making this more easy.
Playing: TESO (great!)
**************
Most looking forward for: Everquest Next
**************
Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift
Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
Probably because they know that saying otherwise means one group of people will just whine and complain. And if they ever do decide to open a datacenter there, for whatever reason, another group of people entirely will just whine and complain about "being lied to" or whatever.
The MMO community is one of the worst groups of people any company could ever hope to deal with.
You make me like charity
You are either a paid shill poster, a troll or just stupid.
There is no way anyone in Europe can expect to play competitively with 150 ms + ping they will most likely have from playing on a US based server. To me it just comes off as lazy that Zenimax can't even be bothered to serve the other hemisphere correctly which most of their competitors have.
What i dont get is people arguing that there will be no lag or higher ping or that it will not degrade your gaming expirience.....
Realy ? come on putt of those rose tinted glasses and use your brains....
I understand that its a HUGE investment to setup and keep a fully datacenter running, let alone buying all servers and installing it all.
But you make money, and you should invest a portion of that money to show your product buyers that their money is used to offer quality....not a cash grab.
If those servers will not be installed here in EU within a quick timeframe then they just destroyed their whole tradename.
It will be forever tainted as cash grabbers, if EU needs to keep playing with severe lag or high pings then you already doomed your game here on this continent.
On the other hand, if they hold true on their word, then no problem.
People can live with it.
Its only for a short week or 2 after all, so no probs.
They should not promise something they can deliver tough, if they dont then people have a right to ask their money back and that is going to hurt the most.
All the people on all forums will produce 1 massive outcry how they got robbed.
I hope Zenimax keep their words and they know they cant break that promise
So wait and see guys, i have faith they wont let it come that far.
Fuck With The Best, Die Like The Rest!!!