Why is everyone coming down on this...this is EVE, it's a part of it. What I don't understand is just how someone could be so naive when it is said repeatedly over an over again in local chat in Jita and all the other main trade hubs - don't fall for scams! Anyone that actually thinks that someone is just going to double your ISK - because they say they will...don't play EVE - you're the reason things like this happen - you're gullible and lack good judgment. The guy that fell for this scam I do not feel sorry for one bit. It's like people that believe in God and hand over cash to churches - it's a scam. If the God of a church is so powerful, what does a church or religion have need of money for - why doesn't your God just provide for it's needs - he is suppose to be all mighty and powerful - or are you not capable of good judgement to understand this - hmmmm?
Oh and don't try to tell me I'm just as bad as the scammers that did this because I don't feel sorry for this guy...that guy at one point actually knew he had been scammed and yet "he allowed" them to continue on. All he had to do was stop. So more than once this person showed bad judgement. In fact he did it 4 times. So no, I don't feel bad for this person. And his language toward the end of the sound clip...that is inexcusable.
I believe in this world people like the 'victim' who suffer from some kind of disabilities should be protected by good people. These kind of things happen because we humans turn the other way around and not give a shit.
And i am sorry to say but you don't seem like a good person, the guy has speech impedment...suffers from severe PTSD and is mentally unstable because of his two tours to IRAQ and you are giving me this nonsense that 'he deserved it'?
I guess all people who have some kind of physical and mental disorders deserved to be scammed and humiliated then right?
What BS Teala..what a load of BS!
Even though I completely agree with you, there is no way for the "good guys" to do anything about it. What can you go to E1's spacedock and attack him without getting a 100 of his goon friends? Or you would go to the in-game police and ask for help, cuz unless you are podded in high sec, the in-game police doesn't give a shit.
IMO EVE is a game that puts a show of the worst of humanity. No laws, no rules, "user-driven sandbox" ... bullshit. If you set a bounty high enough he'll just let his buddies destroy some rookie ship to collect the bounty. The game is full of shit
The least i can do is show some sympathy and even if i am humanly incapable of doing that atleast i won't say stuff like 'he deserves it'.
Whatever happened to basic human descency ffs? the guy suffers from PTSD and obviously had a lot of mental baggage after 2 tours to to IRAQ and they are making him sing songs and laughing at him.
People like him needs lot of support and don't 'deserve it'. Anyone who prey on people with mental disorders and take advantage of them is lowest of the lowest scums on this planet.
Except it's not. It's really, really not like that experiment. The experiment did not provide a blank slate, it provided a very clear script for the actors that spiraled out of control very quickly. Every person involved in the experiment fell victim to the environment and roles they were asked to play.
A little known fact about the experiment that I've learned recently is that the participants were not all selected randomly. Many were selected by responding to an ad that specifically mentioned the environment being a prison. Half the people who responded were looking to be involved in a prison experiment, not an experiment. The experiment may have turned out differently had the participants been selected randomly. Or not. We won't know because there are things like Institutional Review Boards that keep us from doing experiments like this.
Eve has been running for years, with tens of thousands of people online every day. That some small percentage of them are complete and total d!cks should not surprise anyone. Pick any group of fifty thousand people, put them all online at the same time and some small percentage of them are going to be d!cks relative to the rest of the group. Put fifty thousand vow of silence monks in retreat and some small percentage of those monks are going to try and make the other monks talk. Some people just aren't able to leave things alone.
If there's a finger to point here, it's squarely at the people involved, who did this outside of the game. Because if they did it inside the game using game chat resources, they would have been sanctioned, and they know it. Not for the theft, for the harassment.
Obviously it's not exactly like that experiment, but it encourages the internet equivalent of the type of behavior that experiment led to. The issue, to me (I really don't care about the particular people involved in the example from this thread) is that MMOs like EvE have a tendency to give people who want to embrace sociopathic or psychopathic behavior all of the tools they need to do so, while rarely providing any of the necessary tools that would allow the rest of the community to effectively punish or deter such behavior.
Frankly, MMOs that purport to offer "virtual worlds" need to include virtual prisons, or the means for players to create virtual prisons, and they need to have virtual bounties that pay for "live" capture, so that players have incentives both to behave well and to hunt down and punish those who behave poorly. Until players have the necessary tools to simulate actual civilization, all we are getting is anarchy simulators, not virtual worlds.
Um. Yeah. Did you not see the results of the Stanford Prison Experiment? How would creating such an environment within the confines of the game world in any way improve the behavior of the people sent there?
There was a prison riot, "prisoners" were made to stand naked for hours, "guards" worked out psychological torture to control "prisoners" by taking away their mattresses and forcing them to sleep on the concrete floor and one "prisoner" had a mental breakdown. The experiment was shut down after only six days. Eve Online seems to be a far cry from the kind of bedlam exhibited in the prison experiment. Eve actually seems pretty controlled, with most players not even engaging in PvP, much less psychopathic behavior.
It would be possible to argue that Eve Online, like any environment that humans interact in affects their behavior. At the same time, when players are not logged into the game, the environment they are operating in, the real world, also affects their behavior. Humans are perfectly capable of moving between different environments that have different sets of rules. They do it all the time when moving between home, work, shopping centers and movie theaters. The people who deviate from accepted norms are small in number relative to the general population, and this seems to be the case with Eve too.
Are people more likely to play the role of a Troll or Psychopath when playing Eve than when online in general? What is the likelihood of an Eve player exhibiting Troll or Psychopath behavior relative to incidents of such behavior in the real world? I don't know. Neither do you, since you don't interact with all the tens of thousands of people who play Eve every day. It doesn't seem impossible, but this one incident doesn't prove anything other than some people really shouldn't be allowed to interact with other people without supervision.
**
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the behavior shown. I feel like "something should be done" too. I just think the issue has more to do with the people involved, not the players involved, if that makes sense. If there is a punishment, it needs to be something outside the game, not inside the game. Restrict the accounts or something. Don't add more game play unless your goal is to get more people involved in the game. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a different discussion. Improving behavior should involve something outside of the game play as well, again, unless the goal is to get more people involved in the game or the game play. For instance, player councils, player "colleges", etc.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The most replies I've seen to the OP is that all community based games have something similar. The despicable types that prey on people that some can point to and say they deserve that because they are stupid, and it helps them bolster their own egos because they feel they are superior and would never be that stupid.
So the replies to the OP perform two functions.
Excuse the behavior and exonerate the entertainment the player identifies with. IOW: "I like it so it can't be bad".
Validates their ego by identifying people that they can classify as being inferior. Which allows them to confirm to themselves that they are in turn not inferior.
One of the many problems with the excusing of this behavior I would like to point out is that if other communities have this level of anti-social behavior why then do we not see this level of 'game show of humiliation' in WoW or any other MMO? Where are the podcasts of people torturing others?
No, this is a symptom of the attitude of the game managers and the expectations that have grown up around EVE, expectations that laud anti-social behavior. It is the acceptance of, 'That's just how EVE works, It's not bad'. That acceptance breeds further pressing of the boundaries of expected social behavior. This podcast is an evolution of allowing anti-social behavior to not just occur, but be celebrated.
Mittani, one of the former heads of the CSM and a notorious bad guy in-game, once drunkenly ordered his alliance and people of the pvp orientation at fanfest to gank a person suffering from suicidal tendencies until he "gets over it". Mittani got hit with a sledgehammer for that remark getting a ban, removal from CSM and basically ending his in-game career to a large degree, he still controls his alliance and still has alts but no one really forgot that slip up and no one really trusts him anymore.
And the EVE community bands together everytime there is a catastrophe of natural origin ( earthquake, tsunami, etc) and donate heavily towards a relief fund set up by CCP (thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars have been donated this way up until now and this is a donation btw, I think only once was there a specially skinned ship provided by CCP but at all other times you donated because you wanted to either in isk or plex).
Have fun with your soap box though, I very much enjoy your type talking from the wrong end about a game someone told you about (I truly hope that because if you played and have this sort of opinion... does not look good on you).
Are people more likely to play the role of a Troll or Psychopath when playing Eve than when online in general? What is the likelihood of an Eve player exhibiting Troll or Psychopath behavior relative to incidents of such behavior in the real world? I don't know. Neither do you, since you don't interact with all the tens of thousands of people who play Eve every day. It doesn't seem impossible, but this one incident doesn't prove anything other than some people really shouldn't be allowed to interact with other people without supervision.
**
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the behavior shown. I feel like "something should be done" too. I just think the issue has more to do with the people involved, not the players involved, if that makes sense. If there is a punishment, it needs to be something outside the game, not inside the game. Restrict the accounts or something. Don't add more game play unless your goal is to get more people involved in the game. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a different discussion. Improving behavior should involve something outside of the game play as well, again, unless the goal is to get more people involved in the game or the game play. For instance, player councils, player "colleges", etc.
To me, the primary issue isn't whether the game environment makes people more likely to behave this way. It's that the way the game is setup makes it more likely to attract people who *already* behave this way, and it gives them all the necessary tools to engage in that behavior, while providing limited if any tools by which other players can punish or deter that behavior. What are the primary punishments and deterrents to severely anti-social behavior in the real world? Death and/or imprisonment. A game where death isn't permanent removes that as an effective punishment or deterrent, which leaves us with imprisonment. Now this particular incident involved going outside the game to behave poorly, so it wouldn't directly help in that case, but some form of in-game prisons could severely reduce the in-game occurrence of undesirable behavior, to the point where many of the inherently undesirable people would remove themselves from the EvE community, both in-game and out.
Basically my point is that any game which wants to lay claim to providing a "virtual world" needs to allow for both crime and punishment, not just crime, because going halfway isn't realistic in the slightest, and for the vast majority of potential players, it isn't fun either.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I am surprised nobody has brought up the notion that the whole thing was staged. I am on the fence whether or not it is.
Eve has a very VERY fine line to toe regarding what is bannable griefing and what is scamming within the parameters of thhe sandbox. I am glad its not me who has to make the call because for me I could see the ban / don't ban going either way and calling it fair.
Though in general, scammers could use a good punch in the gut. Eve needs bad guys but I don't personally think scammers are the type of bad guys it needs. Warlords like mittens and pirate corps like the orphanage unite the community to defeat (or join!) The douches. But scammers operate docked and safe and funnel their money to other toons. So they're hard to retaliate against which is why I do see how the behaviour could be considered bannable
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Originally posted by itchmon I am surprised nobody has brought up the notion that the whole thing was staged. I am on the fence whether or not it is.
Eve has a very VERY fine line to toe regarding what is bannable griefing and what is scamming within the parameters of thhe sandbox. I am glad its not me who has to make the call because for me I could see the ban / don't ban going either way and calling it fair.
Though in general, scammers could use a good punch in the gut. Eve needs bad guys but I don't personally think scammers are the type of bad guys it needs. Warlords like mittens and pirate corps like the orphanage unite the community to defeat (or join!) The douches. But scammers operate docked and safe and funnel their money to other toons. So they're hard to retaliate against which is why I do see how the behaviour could be considered bannable
Problem is that this is not just about scamming. If it was then the scammers would have left the moment the guy gave them his stuff. This is about humiliation and sadism. The people doing this are clearly psycopaths and it does not matter that the guy being scammed is stupid/gullible. Since when is that an excuse for sadists and other scum to torture and humiliate them?
The most replies I've seen to the OP is that all community based games have something similar. The despicable types that prey on people that some can point to and say they deserve that because they are stupid, and it helps them bolster their own egos because they feel they are superior and would never be that stupid.
So the replies to the OP perform two functions.
Excuse the behavior and exonerate the entertainment the player identifies with. IOW: "I like it so it can't be bad".
Validates their ego by identifying people that they can classify as being inferior. Which allows them to confirm to themselves that they are in turn not inferior.
One of the many problems with the excusing of this behavior I would like to point out is that if other communities have this level of anti-social behavior why then do we not see this level of 'game show of humiliation' in WoW or any other MMO? Where are the podcasts of people torturing others?
No, this is a symptom of the attitude of the game managers and the expectations that have grown up around EVE, expectations that laud anti-social behavior. It is the acceptance of, 'That's just how EVE works, It's not bad'. That acceptance breeds further pressing of the boundaries of expected social behavior. This podcast is an evolution of allowing anti-social behavior to not just occur, but be celebrated.
Mittani, one of the former heads of the CSM and a notorious bad guy in-game, once drunkenly ordered his alliance and people of the pvp orientation at fanfest to gank a person suffering from suicidal tendencies until he "gets over it". Mittani got hit with a sledgehammer for that remark getting a ban, removal from CSM and basically ending his in-game career to a large degree, he still controls his alliance and still has alts but no one really forgot that slip up and no one really trusts him anymore.
And the EVE community bands together everytime there is a catastrophe of natural origin ( earthquake, tsunami, etc) and donate heavily towards a relief fund set up by CCP (thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars have been donated this way up until now and this is a donation btw, I think only once was there a specially skinned ship provided by CCP but at all other times you donated because you wanted to either in isk or plex).
So you're saying that we need to excuse the pathological and sociopathic things people do in the game because of the things that the community have done as a baseline level of human concern? "Oh, it's ok that we have people in our game that torture others, because we sometimes ostracize people who try to get other people to commit suicide, and when thousands die, we actually feel bad."
Sorry, but those do not excuse the first. Civilized and socially well-adjusted people are supposed to do these things, you don't get bonus points or get to excuse the psychopath Erotica 1 because of them.
Have fun with your soap box though, I very much enjoy your type talking from the wrong end about a game someone told you about (I truly hope that because if you played and have this sort of opinion... does not look good on you).
Ending your post with a passive-aggressive insult and an obvious attempt to cast me as inferior just so you can help your ego feel superior does not help your case of EVE players being friendly and socially well-adjusted.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
now either the player was some noob with less than 1 -2 months play time or it did not happen
nobody plays eve for more than 2 months and has no knowledge of the scams
now I know there are some scams which can still catch a experienced player off guard but giving a stranger full access to your assets is asking for trouble no experienced player would do such a thing
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Teala is exactly right here and its idiots like this that keep scammers in business to begin with. I cannot and will not feel sorry for stupidity and honestly if the guy loses his stuff and figured out it was a scam cussing and raging then he should of just accepted it and got out of speak. He chose to continue to be tormented in hopes of getting his stuff back. I do not condone behavior like this and the guys doing it no less deserve to get their asses beat down but sometimes people here seem to forget what personal responsibility is. I watch it on the news all the time people doing stupid stuff and then expecting to sue whoever or whatever business because they got hurt. Blaming CCP for the actions of some idiots and some excuse my french but some dumbass guy is pretty ridiculous and some of you here need to rethink things a bit more seriously. They skirted the rules and so did the guy being scammed so CCP is not liable for this mess. This guy learned a hard rule in life , there are pricks out there that will try and get under your skin and scam you. Be smart about it and not let it happen again. Just like I tell both my kids all the time if someone bullies you in school knock em the hell out .
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Originally posted by cronius77 wow so all ive gathered since my last comment is people actually feel sorry for this guy being scammed . So people should have no personal
Teala is exactly right here and its idiots like this that keep scammers in business to begin with. I cannot and will not feel sorry for stupidity and honestly if the guy loses his stuff and figured out it was a scam cussing and raging then he should of just accepted it and got out of speak. He chose to continue to be tormented in hopes of getting his stuff back. I do not condone behavior like this and the guys doing it no less deserve to get their asses beat down but sometimes people here seem to forget what personal responsibility is. I watch it on the news all the time people doing stupid stuff and then expecting to sue whoever or whatever business because they got hurt. Blaming CCP for the actions of some idiots and some excuse my french but some dumbass guy is pretty ridiculous and some of you here need to rethink things a bit more seriously. They skirted the rules and so did the guy being scammed so CCP is not liable for this mess. This guy learned a hard rule in life , there are pricks out there that will try and get under your skin and scam you. Be smart about it and not let it happen again. Just like I tell both my kids all the time if someone bullies you in school knock em the hell out .
No, re-read through. It has nothing to do with him being scammed. They had his stuff and continued on. Assets are not why most people are upset. He was tormented. What enabled him to be tormented was the thought of possibly getting his stuff back. 45 minutes in, it should have ended. But emotional attachment and mere possibility of regaining something was enough for Erotica to suck him back in. Claiming Erotica 1 didn't know what he was doing is a lie. You push someone over the edge and they do something stupid you bear some of that responsibility in my opinion.
Had these two been in the same room someone would have got hurt. Erotica 1 pushed him to the breaking point. Not a dam thing funny or entertaining about that. He didn't come out of character. He kept pushing him the whole time up until the very end. Not once coming out of character to say "Hey this got out of hand! Time to stop." I think this is the most damming thing for any defense he has. People act as if no one can listen to the recording.
Was what Erotica 1 did all that bad? I think that is a better defense if you are going to try and defend him. Was it his responsibility if another person can't control himself? Just because I deem a person stupid doesn't mean I can or should break them. Every human is breakable. Just have to know the right buttons to push or correct moment in time. Some are easier than others. I think this shows either a lack of empathy from people or the lack of understanding the situation?
What should CCP do if anything? No idea. I know that if one gets punished they both should. But it's not my call.
Edit: I don't know.. Sorry I just I've seen this to often in real life. People broken and pushed over the top. Some bad stuff can happen when that happens. It can ruin lives. The fact that I listened to it happen in a mini game that someone made up as part of the meta for a mmo. It bothers me. I love Eve and the fact that CCP don't cave to the mainstream. I love the lawlessness of Eve. I even laughed a bit as Erotica 1 mocked the outrage going on in that thread. I'll be quiet on the subject. I've posted to much in this thread I think. I just know exactly what Sohkar went through because I've seen so much in person. It's not funny and shouldn't be funny over a video game.
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
Are people more likely to play the role of a Troll or Psychopath when playing Eve than when online in general? What is the likelihood of an Eve player exhibiting Troll or Psychopath behavior relative to incidents of such behavior in the real world? I don't know. Neither do you, since you don't interact with all the tens of thousands of people who play Eve every day. It doesn't seem impossible, but this one incident doesn't prove anything other than some people really shouldn't be allowed to interact with other people without supervision.
**
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the behavior shown. I feel like "something should be done" too. I just think the issue has more to do with the people involved, not the players involved, if that makes sense. If there is a punishment, it needs to be something outside the game, not inside the game. Restrict the accounts or something. Don't add more game play unless your goal is to get more people involved in the game. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a different discussion. Improving behavior should involve something outside of the game play as well, again, unless the goal is to get more people involved in the game or the game play. For instance, player councils, player "colleges", etc.
To me, the primary issue isn't whether the game environment makes people more likely to behave this way. It's that the way the game is setup makes it more likely to attract people who *already* behave this way, and it gives them all the necessary tools to engage in that behavior, while providing limited if any tools by which other players can punish or deter that behavior. What are the primary punishments and deterrents to severely anti-social behavior in the real world? Death and/or imprisonment. A game where death isn't permanent removes that as an effective punishment or deterrent, which leaves us with imprisonment. Now this particular incident involved going outside the game to behave poorly, so it wouldn't directly help in that case, but some form of in-game prisons could severely reduce the in-game occurrence of undesirable behavior, to the point where many of the inherently undesirable people would remove themselves from the EvE community, both in-game and out.
Basically my point is that any game which wants to lay claim to providing a "virtual world" needs to allow for both crime and punishment, not just crime, because going halfway isn't realistic in the slightest, and for the vast majority of potential players, it isn't fun either.
I think I understand your point, I just don't think it's a functional solution. In game jails are game play. They enhance the game for the players on both sides of the equation. They do not curb or shape behavior in the game. The other problem is that most humans past the age of eight or nine in Western cultures aren't obeying the rules because of the consequences. They are obeying the rules because they either agree with them, or they believe in the idea of rules being necessary or good. If jails are in the game, then they are just going to be part of the game play. The "offender" isn't really taken out of the system.
The behavior that is offensive here isn't behavior that's acceptable in the game or in the real world. I'm not talking about the scamming. That's an acceptable norm in Eve's game play. I'm talking about tormenting the other player, with the intent of driving them away from the game. That is not acceptable behavior within the game or in the real world. That behavior is also a oddity. Most players would not do that. They would scam, steal, kill within the context of the game, but because that is how the game is played. Anyone playing it should accept those things as the norm. For Eve players, they are "fun". It's the other stuff that isn't acceptable.
It's also in the real world where the punishment, if there is any should be taken. I don't run Eve, so I don't know what they should do. I would consider being suspended from the game an appropriate response, and removal from any elevated positions within the game as well, such as player councils or the like. Of course, they need to make sure the whole thing wasn't staged, that there weren't additional circumstances surrounding this event, etc. Mostly, they would just need to make sure that the people are actually Eve players and that the events actually happened at all.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
i do agree that when you sign up to play eve, you are basically consenting to let people try to take your stuff. and that is part of what makes eve so engrossing. but one thing that i think would be nice is for there to be some way of counterattacking the scammers. Since every other form of "douchery" in eve has an in game counter.
some way to eject them from being docked would be particularly hilarious. though pains would need to be made not to let the system be exploitable to make non criminals get ejected from stations.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
You don't have to be mentally disabled to be incapable of making sound mind decision. Any kind of anxiety and PTSD disorder is enough. People like him suffer from sever mood swings and can easily harm themselves and others. On top of that he suffers from speech impediment. (which i am sure he didn't have from birth. I have seen a lot of marines developing this problem).
But that doesn't mean he is incapable of doing his job. What kind of decent human being would enjoy the misery and de humanisation of such an individual? do you know the amount of mental tolls it takes on a person when he tours Iraq?i know because i did one tour myself and that was enough for me to put a bullet in my brain after the things i saw. And he did it twice.
Yes he went on racists rant and got abusive but that was after almost 2 hours of mental harrasement (he even apologised for it). Erotic 1 knew the kind of person he is dealing with but he continued to enjoy it. I will write in cap for you... IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCAMMING. Its about laughing and enjoying at cost of suffering of a fellow human being.
You are incapable of understanding the deeper issues i am afraid. Stick to complaining and ranting about video games in your blog. That is what you do best.
This is a great representation of the PvP Community as a whole. All PvP players love and enjoy watching others suffer. That's why they play these games not for "skill". I couldn't be happer to have them no where near me in any MMO I play. They can call PVEers carebears all they want I call them caring and sane Individuals.
The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
You don't have to be mentally disabled to be incapable of making sound mind decision. Any kind of anxiety and PTSD disorder is enough. People like him suffer from sever mood swings and can easily harm themselves and others. On top of that he suffers from speech impediment. (which i am sure he didn't have from birth. I have seen a lot of marines developing this problem).
But that doesn't mean he is incapable of doing his job. What kind of decent human being would enjoy the misery and de humanisation of such an individual? do you know the amount of mental tolls it takes on a person when he tours Iraq?i know because i did one tour myself and that was enough for me to put a bullet in my brain after the things i saw. And he did it twice.
Yes he went on racists rant and got abusive but that was after almost 2 hours of mental harrasement (he even apologised for it). Erotic 1 knew the kind of person he is dealing with but he continued to enjoy it. I will write in cap for you... IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCAMMING. Its about laughing and enjoying at cost of suffering of a fellow human being.
You are incapable of understanding the deeper issues i am afraid. Stick to complaining and ranting about video games in your blog. That is what you do best.
Don't give me this, he has PTSD and unstable and is an air traffic controller...you can't be an air traffic controller and have those types of issues - it isn't allowed - period.
No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
A psychosis;
A neurosis; or
Any personality or mental disorder that clearly demonstrates a potential hazard to safety in the air traffic control system. Determinations will be based on medical case history (including past, social, and occupational adjustment) supported by clinical psychologists and board-certified psychiatrists, including such psychological tests as may be required as part of medical evaluation.
PTSD falls into catogory 3. Look it up.
Stop making excuses for this guy. He messed up. He fell for the scam and he did it because he was greedy.
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
You don't have to be mentally disabled to be incapable of making sound mind decision. Any kind of anxiety and PTSD disorder is enough. People like him suffer from sever mood swings and can easily harm themselves and others. On top of that he suffers from speech impediment. (which i am sure he didn't have from birth. I have seen a lot of marines developing this problem).
But that doesn't mean he is incapable of doing his job. What kind of decent human being would enjoy the misery and de humanisation of such an individual? do you know the amount of mental tolls it takes on a person when he tours Iraq?i know because i did one tour myself and that was enough for me to put a bullet in my brain after the things i saw. And he did it twice.
Yes he went on racists rant and got abusive but that was after almost 2 hours of mental harrasement (he even apologised for it). Erotic 1 knew the kind of person he is dealing with but he continued to enjoy it. I will write in cap for you... IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCAMMING. Its about laughing and enjoying at cost of suffering of a fellow human being.
You are incapable of understanding the deeper issues i am afraid. Stick to complaining and ranting about video games in your blog. That is what you do best.
i do not think anyone in this thread supports this guy being tormented for two hours nor do i think she is not capable of understanding deeper emotion. Some of us though here feel that personal responsibility needs to be also looked at here as well. The guy was greedy and got scammed then harrassed , and instead of accepting it he played their game allowing them to have complete control over here. If the guy is incapable of seeing through stuff like this he needs parental controls on his computer seriously. No one is also condoning bad behavior on the part of the scammers in all honesty im probably harsher thinking then most here as I would love to see each of them get their jaws broken and suck out of a straw for about 6 weeks but thats just me and I will not get into that. People just need to realize here that things like this would never happen if it was a profitable venture on the part of the scammer. I see people on the official forums of games all the time complaining about how their accounts were hacked and when you get to the bottom of it they vaguely admit to buying gold or giving out their account email etc to scammers. Im not bashing the victim either here, I do feel bad for the guy somewhat but at the same time I know that a scam like that you would never in a million thinks people lack enough common sense to actually fall for that sort of thing. CCP isnt to blame here, the scammers are for sure but lets be honest if that sort of thing didnt work they wouldnt be doing it therefore the person being scammed lacks common sense to give all his stuff away.
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
You don't have to be mentally disabled to be incapable of making sound mind decision. Any kind of anxiety and PTSD disorder is enough. People like him suffer from sever mood swings and can easily harm themselves and others. On top of that he suffers from speech impediment. (which i am sure he didn't have from birth. I have seen a lot of marines developing this problem).
But that doesn't mean he is incapable of doing his job. What kind of decent human being would enjoy the misery and de humanisation of such an individual? do you know the amount of mental tolls it takes on a person when he tours Iraq?i know because i did one tour myself and that was enough for me to put a bullet in my brain after the things i saw. And he did it twice.
Yes he went on racists rant and got abusive but that was after almost 2 hours of mental harrasement (he even apologised for it). Erotic 1 knew the kind of person he is dealing with but he continued to enjoy it. I will write in cap for you... IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCAMMING. Its about laughing and enjoying at cost of suffering of a fellow human being.
You are incapable of understanding the deeper issues i am afraid. Stick to complaining and ranting about video games in your blog. That is what you do best.
Don't give me this, he has PTSD and unstable and is an air traffic controller...you can't be an air traffic controller and have those types of issues - it isn't allowed - period.
No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
A psychosis;
A neurosis; or
Any personality or mental disorder that clearly demonstrates a potential hazard to safety in the air traffic control system. Determinations will be based on medical case history (including past, social, and occupational adjustment) supported by clinical psychologists and board-certified psychiatrists, including such psychological tests as may be required as part of medical evaluation.
PTSD falls into catogory 3. Look it up.
Stop making excuses for this guy. He messed up. He fell for the scam and he did it because he was greedy.
Yes because i am sure he wrote in caps that he suffers from PTSD on his resume. Most of the ex marines do not even get proper treatment or support and thus mostly go un noticed. You don't know and i don't know under what circumstances he got that job. And people with PTSD are fully capable of doing their work.
I bet no one harasses him for 2 hours continuously at his job so that he snaps like he did while in game.
The moment he mentioned he was marine and did two tours..that should have been enough to make them stop. That was a red flag right there. I haven't met one fellow marine yet who did not suffer from post traumatic disorder because it is very common. Its the degree that varies. So i don't need you or anyone else to tell me that he didn't have PTSD.
I know what i am talking about and i don't need to make any excuses for him.
I dont even understand what happened there. Why would he give all of his in game assets to some random people?
Because he was told by them that he could get 4 times the amount back if he did. It is a common scam in EVE. You send a scammer X amount of money, they promise to double, triple, and even quadruple it. Some scams have you play a game in order to win. But make no mistake...it is a scam. You will not win. Why do people fall for it...greed + stupidity.
The moment he mentioned he was marine and did two tours..that should have been enough to make them stop. That was a red flag right there. I haven't met one fellow marine yet who did not suffer from post traumatic disorder because it is very common. Its the degree that varies. So i don't need you or anyone else to tell me that he didn't have PTSD.
I know what i am talking about and i don't need to make any excuses for him.
Amen to that, brother. This made me sick but even more so that it happened to a fellow Marine. Semper Fi.
Comments
The least i can do is show some sympathy and even if i am humanly incapable of doing that atleast i won't say stuff like 'he deserves it'.
Whatever happened to basic human descency ffs? the guy suffers from PTSD and obviously had a lot of mental baggage after 2 tours to to IRAQ and they are making him sing songs and laughing at him.
People like him needs lot of support and don't 'deserve it'. Anyone who prey on people with mental disorders and take advantage of them is lowest of the lowest scums on this planet.
Um. Yeah. Did you not see the results of the Stanford Prison Experiment? How would creating such an environment within the confines of the game world in any way improve the behavior of the people sent there?
There was a prison riot, "prisoners" were made to stand naked for hours, "guards" worked out psychological torture to control "prisoners" by taking away their mattresses and forcing them to sleep on the concrete floor and one "prisoner" had a mental breakdown. The experiment was shut down after only six days. Eve Online seems to be a far cry from the kind of bedlam exhibited in the prison experiment. Eve actually seems pretty controlled, with most players not even engaging in PvP, much less psychopathic behavior.
It would be possible to argue that Eve Online, like any environment that humans interact in affects their behavior. At the same time, when players are not logged into the game, the environment they are operating in, the real world, also affects their behavior. Humans are perfectly capable of moving between different environments that have different sets of rules. They do it all the time when moving between home, work, shopping centers and movie theaters. The people who deviate from accepted norms are small in number relative to the general population, and this seems to be the case with Eve too.
Are people more likely to play the role of a Troll or Psychopath when playing Eve than when online in general? What is the likelihood of an Eve player exhibiting Troll or Psychopath behavior relative to incidents of such behavior in the real world? I don't know. Neither do you, since you don't interact with all the tens of thousands of people who play Eve every day. It doesn't seem impossible, but this one incident doesn't prove anything other than some people really shouldn't be allowed to interact with other people without supervision.
**
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the behavior shown. I feel like "something should be done" too. I just think the issue has more to do with the people involved, not the players involved, if that makes sense. If there is a punishment, it needs to be something outside the game, not inside the game. Restrict the accounts or something. Don't add more game play unless your goal is to get more people involved in the game. Which isn't a bad idea, but it's a different discussion. Improving behavior should involve something outside of the game play as well, again, unless the goal is to get more people involved in the game or the game play. For instance, player councils, player "colleges", etc.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Mittani, one of the former heads of the CSM and a notorious bad guy in-game, once drunkenly ordered his alliance and people of the pvp orientation at fanfest to gank a person suffering from suicidal tendencies until he "gets over it". Mittani got hit with a sledgehammer for that remark getting a ban, removal from CSM and basically ending his in-game career to a large degree, he still controls his alliance and still has alts but no one really forgot that slip up and no one really trusts him anymore.
And the EVE community bands together everytime there is a catastrophe of natural origin ( earthquake, tsunami, etc) and donate heavily towards a relief fund set up by CCP (thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars have been donated this way up until now and this is a donation btw, I think only once was there a specially skinned ship provided by CCP but at all other times you donated because you wanted to either in isk or plex).
Have fun with your soap box though, I very much enjoy your type talking from the wrong end about a game someone told you about (I truly hope that because if you played and have this sort of opinion... does not look good on you).
To me, the primary issue isn't whether the game environment makes people more likely to behave this way. It's that the way the game is setup makes it more likely to attract people who *already* behave this way, and it gives them all the necessary tools to engage in that behavior, while providing limited if any tools by which other players can punish or deter that behavior. What are the primary punishments and deterrents to severely anti-social behavior in the real world? Death and/or imprisonment. A game where death isn't permanent removes that as an effective punishment or deterrent, which leaves us with imprisonment. Now this particular incident involved going outside the game to behave poorly, so it wouldn't directly help in that case, but some form of in-game prisons could severely reduce the in-game occurrence of undesirable behavior, to the point where many of the inherently undesirable people would remove themselves from the EvE community, both in-game and out.
Basically my point is that any game which wants to lay claim to providing a "virtual world" needs to allow for both crime and punishment, not just crime, because going halfway isn't realistic in the slightest, and for the vast majority of potential players, it isn't fun either.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Im not a bad person, although I did pop transports in hi-sec, and I really do hate scammers having been a victim of them.
But, I finally just finished the whole thing and all I can really say is...
"sigh"
I miss EVE
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Eve has a very VERY fine line to toe regarding what is bannable griefing and what is scamming within the parameters of thhe sandbox. I am glad its not me who has to make the call because for me I could see the ban / don't ban going either way and calling it fair.
Though in general, scammers could use a good punch in the gut. Eve needs bad guys but I don't personally think scammers are the type of bad guys it needs. Warlords like mittens and pirate corps like the orphanage unite the community to defeat (or join!) The douches. But scammers operate docked and safe and funnel their money to other toons. So they're hard to retaliate against which is why I do see how the behaviour could be considered bannable
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Problem is that this is not just about scamming. If it was then the scammers would have left the moment the guy gave them his stuff. This is about humiliation and sadism. The people doing this are clearly psycopaths and it does not matter that the guy being scammed is stupid/gullible. Since when is that an excuse for sadists and other scum to torture and humiliate them?
And CCP making money of this makes them as bad.
My gaming blog
So you're saying that we need to excuse the pathological and sociopathic things people do in the game because of the things that the community have done as a baseline level of human concern? "Oh, it's ok that we have people in our game that torture others, because we sometimes ostracize people who try to get other people to commit suicide, and when thousands die, we actually feel bad."
Sorry, but those do not excuse the first. Civilized and socially well-adjusted people are supposed to do these things, you don't get bonus points or get to excuse the psychopath Erotica 1 because of them.
Ending your post with a passive-aggressive insult and an obvious attempt to cast me as inferior just so you can help your ego feel superior does not help your case of EVE players being friendly and socially well-adjusted.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I thought about the story
now either the player was some noob with less than 1 -2 months play time or it did not happen
nobody plays eve for more than 2 months and has no knowledge of the scams
now I know there are some scams which can still catch a experienced player off guard but giving a stranger full access to your assets is asking for trouble no experienced player would do such a thing
Being a EX Eve scammer, there are plenty of moments where common sense should sink in but it doesnt. The one i used all the time in the past was
"ill Double whatever money you give me" The victum would generally give me afew small amount at first to make sure i was legit, however would give in to greed sooner or later and drop a ton of ISK on me. To which i would just fly away.
We used to have corps join our alliance and we would arrange them liquidating their assets for us to build them better ships, and then we would just fly away with everything they owned.
Welcome to EVE, most scams are easy to avoid if you use some sense
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Responsibility in society?
Teala is exactly right here and its idiots like this that keep scammers in business to begin with. I cannot and will not feel sorry for stupidity and honestly if the guy loses his stuff and figured out it was a scam cussing and raging then he should of just accepted it and got out of speak. He chose to continue to be tormented in hopes of getting his stuff back. I do not condone behavior like this and the guys doing it no less deserve to get their asses beat down but sometimes people here seem to forget what personal responsibility is. I watch it on the news all the time people doing stupid stuff and then expecting to sue whoever or whatever business because they got hurt. Blaming CCP for the actions of some idiots and some excuse my french but some dumbass guy is pretty ridiculous and some of you here need to rethink things a bit more seriously. They skirted the rules and so did the guy being scammed so CCP is not liable for this mess. This guy learned a hard rule in life , there are pricks out there that will try and get under your skin and scam you. Be smart about it and not let it happen again. Just like I tell both my kids all the time if someone bullies you in school knock em the hell out .
And what is a person (like the victim in this incident) is incapable of using common sense for variety of reasons? is it still ok to scam and dehumanise that person even though you know he suffers from speech impediment, PTSD, anxiety and all other kind of mental and psychological issues?
If you see someone like that who is incapable of taking acre of himself is being harassed and laughed at in public..will you just walk by and ignore it or will you do something about it?
Bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. And anyone with a little heart would support this guy and try to help him out..i know i will.
No, re-read through. It has nothing to do with him being scammed. They had his stuff and continued on. Assets are not why most people are upset. He was tormented. What enabled him to be tormented was the thought of possibly getting his stuff back. 45 minutes in, it should have ended. But emotional attachment and mere possibility of regaining something was enough for Erotica to suck him back in. Claiming Erotica 1 didn't know what he was doing is a lie. You push someone over the edge and they do something stupid you bear some of that responsibility in my opinion.
Had these two been in the same room someone would have got hurt. Erotica 1 pushed him to the breaking point. Not a dam thing funny or entertaining about that. He didn't come out of character. He kept pushing him the whole time up until the very end. Not once coming out of character to say "Hey this got out of hand! Time to stop." I think this is the most damming thing for any defense he has. People act as if no one can listen to the recording.
Was what Erotica 1 did all that bad? I think that is a better defense if you are going to try and defend him. Was it his responsibility if another person can't control himself? Just because I deem a person stupid doesn't mean I can or should break them. Every human is breakable. Just have to know the right buttons to push or correct moment in time. Some are easier than others. I think this shows either a lack of empathy from people or the lack of understanding the situation?
What should CCP do if anything? No idea. I know that if one gets punished they both should. But it's not my call.
Edit: I don't know.. Sorry I just I've seen this to often in real life. People broken and pushed over the top. Some bad stuff can happen when that happens. It can ruin lives. The fact that I listened to it happen in a mini game that someone made up as part of the meta for a mmo. It bothers me. I love Eve and the fact that CCP don't cave to the mainstream. I love the lawlessness of Eve. I even laughed a bit as Erotica 1 mocked the outrage going on in that thread. I'll be quiet on the subject. I've posted to much in this thread I think. I just know exactly what Sohkar went through because I've seen so much in person. It's not funny and shouldn't be funny over a video game.
Yes, now let's make it sound like the victim was mentally disabled. He is, according to his own statement in the recording, an air traffic controller, do you think they let mentally disabled people do this job? Seriously...stop trying to make excuses for the guy that got scammed. He screwed up. He was greedy. He fell for a scam in a game that is well known for scamming. Unless this guy was just a couple of hours old in game and never heard of EVE before, he might not know, but even then I find that hard to believe, especially since people are ragging on scammers in trade hub locals constantly and warning others to not fall for the scams.
As I said in a previous post, this guy knew it was a potential scam going into it...go listen to the recording. He knows he has fallen for their little scam and yet he continues to play along. Nobody is torturing him and forcing him to continue - except his own greed.
Then, listen to him in the last few minutes of this recording. He starts going off on a racist tirade, cussing, threatening people. This is the kind of person you want to defend? I don't care if he is ex-military...there is no excuse for that type of behavior. Do I feel sorry for him? No...he is suppose to be an adult. He is playing a game made for adults. He is making choices.
As for your comment, bad things happen because good people don't do anything about it. This guys own greed and stupidity put him into this situation...not good people. He did this to himself.
I think I understand your point, I just don't think it's a functional solution. In game jails are game play. They enhance the game for the players on both sides of the equation. They do not curb or shape behavior in the game. The other problem is that most humans past the age of eight or nine in Western cultures aren't obeying the rules because of the consequences. They are obeying the rules because they either agree with them, or they believe in the idea of rules being necessary or good. If jails are in the game, then they are just going to be part of the game play. The "offender" isn't really taken out of the system.
The behavior that is offensive here isn't behavior that's acceptable in the game or in the real world. I'm not talking about the scamming. That's an acceptable norm in Eve's game play. I'm talking about tormenting the other player, with the intent of driving them away from the game. That is not acceptable behavior within the game or in the real world. That behavior is also a oddity. Most players would not do that. They would scam, steal, kill within the context of the game, but because that is how the game is played. Anyone playing it should accept those things as the norm. For Eve players, they are "fun". It's the other stuff that isn't acceptable.
It's also in the real world where the punishment, if there is any should be taken. I don't run Eve, so I don't know what they should do. I would consider being suspended from the game an appropriate response, and removal from any elevated positions within the game as well, such as player councils or the like. Of course, they need to make sure the whole thing wasn't staged, that there weren't additional circumstances surrounding this event, etc. Mostly, they would just need to make sure that the people are actually Eve players and that the events actually happened at all.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If this type of behavior is considered part of the game experience of EvE, then consider me unimpressed with ccp as game devs.
i do agree that when you sign up to play eve, you are basically consenting to let people try to take your stuff. and that is part of what makes eve so engrossing. but one thing that i think would be nice is for there to be some way of counterattacking the scammers. Since every other form of "douchery" in eve has an in game counter.
some way to eject them from being docked would be particularly hilarious. though pains would need to be made not to let the system be exploitable to make non criminals get ejected from stations.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
You don't have to be mentally disabled to be incapable of making sound mind decision. Any kind of anxiety and PTSD disorder is enough. People like him suffer from sever mood swings and can easily harm themselves and others. On top of that he suffers from speech impediment. (which i am sure he didn't have from birth. I have seen a lot of marines developing this problem).
But that doesn't mean he is incapable of doing his job. What kind of decent human being would enjoy the misery and de humanisation of such an individual? do you know the amount of mental tolls it takes on a person when he tours Iraq?i know because i did one tour myself and that was enough for me to put a bullet in my brain after the things i saw. And he did it twice.
Yes he went on racists rant and got abusive but that was after almost 2 hours of mental harrasement (he even apologised for it). Erotic 1 knew the kind of person he is dealing with but he continued to enjoy it. I will write in cap for you... IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCAMMING. Its about laughing and enjoying at cost of suffering of a fellow human being.
You are incapable of understanding the deeper issues i am afraid. Stick to complaining and ranting about video games in your blog. That is what you do best.
The first MMO you loved will always be the best. You will never get that feeling back stop trying.
Don't give me this, he has PTSD and unstable and is an air traffic controller...you can't be an air traffic controller and have those types of issues - it isn't allowed - period.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/2100/air-traffic-control-series-2152/
Psychiatric
No established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
I dont even understand what happened there. Why would he give all of his in game assets to some random people?
i do not think anyone in this thread supports this guy being tormented for two hours nor do i think she is not capable of understanding deeper emotion. Some of us though here feel that personal responsibility needs to be also looked at here as well. The guy was greedy and got scammed then harrassed , and instead of accepting it he played their game allowing them to have complete control over here. If the guy is incapable of seeing through stuff like this he needs parental controls on his computer seriously. No one is also condoning bad behavior on the part of the scammers in all honesty im probably harsher thinking then most here as I would love to see each of them get their jaws broken and suck out of a straw for about 6 weeks but thats just me and I will not get into that. People just need to realize here that things like this would never happen if it was a profitable venture on the part of the scammer. I see people on the official forums of games all the time complaining about how their accounts were hacked and when you get to the bottom of it they vaguely admit to buying gold or giving out their account email etc to scammers. Im not bashing the victim either here, I do feel bad for the guy somewhat but at the same time I know that a scam like that you would never in a million thinks people lack enough common sense to actually fall for that sort of thing. CCP isnt to blame here, the scammers are for sure but lets be honest if that sort of thing didnt work they wouldnt be doing it therefore the person being scammed lacks common sense to give all his stuff away.
Yes because i am sure he wrote in caps that he suffers from PTSD on his resume. Most of the ex marines do not even get proper treatment or support and thus mostly go un noticed. You don't know and i don't know under what circumstances he got that job. And people with PTSD are fully capable of doing their work.
I bet no one harasses him for 2 hours continuously at his job so that he snaps like he did while in game.
The moment he mentioned he was marine and did two tours..that should have been enough to make them stop. That was a red flag right there. I haven't met one fellow marine yet who did not suffer from post traumatic disorder because it is very common. Its the degree that varies. So i don't need you or anyone else to tell me that he didn't have PTSD.
I know what i am talking about and i don't need to make any excuses for him.
Because he was told by them that he could get 4 times the amount back if he did. It is a common scam in EVE. You send a scammer X amount of money, they promise to double, triple, and even quadruple it. Some scams have you play a game in order to win. But make no mistake...it is a scam. You will not win. Why do people fall for it...greed + stupidity.
Amen to that, brother. This made me sick but even more so that it happened to a fellow Marine. Semper Fi.
RAWR