But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
Question. Why does it get your panties in such a bunch if someone chooses to run dungeons over and over for loot? Is it any different from going out to getting mats to craft gear over and over for people? ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they wanted to get rid of a perfectly working system and implement something that would just alienate and infuriate their already low amount of customers.
2 words and an abbreviation for you my very strange creature whom i still find amazing. Risk vs Reward.
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
I'll stand with you, brother!!! It's already been stated in numerous articles that, in ESO, crafting will be an integral part to the game. This is by design. It's not some sort of flaw in the design. While we, maybe, didn't inherently know that it meant massively nerfed loot drops in dungeons, we were told/warned that crafting was going to be a big deal.
As far as the ninjas/trolls/a-holes. Been there, done that. The major difference before now was loot rules. However, the massive backlash on this topic is the exact reason that the world isn't ready for Sandboxes, even though they say they are. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in sandboxes where non-instanced dungeons are concerned. It's one reason that instances exist! It's also why loot rules exist!
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that this isn't anything new to anyone who really paid close attention to any information on the game. Oh! Also, I'm pretty sure that Al Capone, Hitler, Stalin, etc. didn't drop epic weapons. They were just bad dudes. As for bosses in ESO? Well, maybe they were also more concentrated on specing into damage roles instead of crafting, so they can't craft anything good yet. Just sayin'
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
Question. Why does it get your panties in such a bunch if someone chooses to run dungeons over and over for loot? Is it any different from going out to getting mats to craft gear over and over for people? ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they wanted to get rid of a perfectly working system and implement something that would just alienate and infuriate their already low amount of customers.
3 words for you my very strange creature whom i still find amazing. Risk vs Reward.
What I find more strange is a creature who bitches and complains every single time that a "WoW Clone" is released, but then any deviation from that yields similarly loud screams of hatred on "Why fix it if it ain't broken?" Geeez! People really need to make up their damn minds. Really, though, if you'd like to play something like WoW, why not just go play WoW?
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
I'll stand with you, brother!!! It's already been stated in numerous articles that, in ESO, crafting will be an integral part to the game. This is by design. It's not some sort of flaw in the design. While we, maybe, didn't inherently know that it meant massively nerfed loot drops in dungeons, we were told/warned that crafting was going to be a big deal.
As far as the ninjas/trolls/a-holes. Been there, done that. The major difference before now was loot rules. However, the massive backlash on this topic is the exact reason that the world isn't ready for Sandboxes, even though they say they are. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in sandboxes where non-instanced dungeons are concerned. It's one reason that instances exist! It's also why loot rules exist!
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that this isn't anything new to anyone who really paid close attention to any information on the game. Oh! Also, I'm pretty sure that Al Capone, Hitler, Stalin, etc. didn't drop epic weapons. They were just bad dudes. As for bosses in ESO? Well, maybe they were also more concentrated on specing into damage roles instead of crafting, so they can't craft anything good yet. Just sayin'
Oh god, did you really just try to draw a comparison from irl ORDINARY HUMANS WHO ONLY HAVE CLOTHES AND GUNS to fantastical FUCKING MONSTERS WITH ARMOR, WEAPONS, MAGIC, ENCHANTED ITEMS, ETC.?
I'm just...im shocked. I'm truly shocked. Also spoils of war you kitty.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
What I find more strange is a creature who bitches and complains every single time that a "WoW Clone" is released, but then any deviation from that yields similarly loud screams of hatred on "Why fix it if it ain't broken?" Geeez! People really need to make up their damn minds. Really, though, if you'd like to play something like WoW, why not just go play WoW?
So you think the need/greed system and vote to kick features is equivalent to WoW as a whole? Good stuff.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Simple fix: Make chest loot in dungeons instanced for each person the way monsters are. Leave them non instanced outside dungeons. Profit
Agreed, except they would have to figure out if they need to lower the quality of loot obtained from chests in dungeons if they do this due to the fact that they would now be multiplying loot by 5 for every chest. So an even better fix would be to apply a need/greed roll to chest loot(like above green quality or w/e)
Originally posted by Aeonblades Simple fix: Make chest loot in dungeons instanced for each person the way monsters are. Leave them non instanced outside dungeons. Profit
Agreed, except they would have to figure out if they need to lower the quality of loot obtained from chests in dungeons if they do this due to the fact that they would now be multiplying loot by 5 for every chest. So an even better fix would be to apply a need/greed roll to chest loot(like above green quality or w/e)
That's another good idea for a fix too. It may take more time to implement though being as there is no roll system in game now, where I feel like tweaking the way chests work would be a quick and easy short term solution. Good idea!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I'll stand with you, brother!!! It's already been stated in numerous articles that, in ESO, crafting will be an integral part to the game. This is by design. It's not some sort of flaw in the design. While we, maybe, didn't inherently know that it meant massively nerfed loot drops in dungeons, we were told/warned that crafting was going to be a big deal.
As far as the ninjas/trolls/a-holes. Been there, done that. The major difference before now was loot rules. However, the massive backlash on this topic is the exact reason that the world isn't ready for Sandboxes, even though they say they are. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in sandboxes where non-instanced dungeons are concerned. It's one reason that instances exist! It's also why loot rules exist!
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that this isn't anything new to anyone who really paid close attention to any information on the game. Oh! Also, I'm pretty sure that Al Capone, Hitler, Stalin, etc. didn't drop epic weapons. They were just bad dudes. As for bosses in ESO? Well, maybe they were also more concentrated on specing into damage roles instead of crafting, so they can't craft anything good yet. Just sayin'
Oh god, did you really just try to draw a comparison from irl ORDINARY HUMANS WHO ONLY HAVE CLOTHES AND GUNS to fantastical FUCKING MONSTERS WITH ARMOR, WEAPONS, MAGIC, ENCHANTED ITEMS, ETC.?
I'm just...im shocked. I'm truly shocked. Also spoils of war you kitty.
Just sayin' where do you get the expectation that a boss would drop something good? My guess is every other game out there! Nothing wrong with that. I have a special, addicted part of my heart dedicated to WoW and I'm sure I'll be back to it before the expansion is out. All I'm saying is that you were told! Why is this surprising?
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
What I find more strange is a creature who bitches and complains every single time that a "WoW Clone" is released, but then any deviation from that yields similarly loud screams of hatred on "Why fix it if it ain't broken?" Geeez! People really need to make up their damn minds. Really, though, if you'd like to play something like WoW, why not just go play WoW?
So you think the need/greed system and vote to kick features is equivalent to WoW as a whole? Good stuff.
Nope, not once did I say that. However, the WoW name has been dropped an awful lot, not only in this thread, but in others. I would say that loot rules and instancing is a popular feature of MMOs, hence any time that they're used in a game it simply adds fodder to the "WoW Clone" cannon.
Why change something that differentiates a game from the mainstream? Apparently that's what plenty of people want, based on the feedback we always hear on here. Either that, or the market truly IS 95% themepark lovers, just like I've always said. Well, I guess that we should know a little more about that once The Repop is out and maybe EQN?
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
guaranteed boss loot?! in which game was that supposed to happen?
example wow: you dont get loot every boss. you get loot like every 3 or 4 bosses. and then you need to fight with those who want it too, hell, even using extra rolls only ends up in giving you moar gold!
example aion: same thing, just a MUCH weirder drop rate on the stuff you really want.
example ToR: aaaaand again. same thing..
example TSW: nope, no guaranteed boss loot (same for conan, same system)
example GW2: err... yes... no.
(just named a few never ones here, but it was the same for every older mmo i played)
so, which games did i miss that give you GUARANTEED boss loot? and are they still fun? can't imagine them being.
PS: totaly agreed on the "grp kick / ini kick out" thingie tho.
but hey, that's why we all hate randoms, don't we? *G*
When was the last time you played WOW? because i played it last week and every boss in dungeons drops loot which you need or greed.
So yes every boss drops loot. its guaranteed and same goes for any other themepark MMO. Rift, FFXIV ARR etc
So he is right about 'guaranteed' part.
And it is not just about the loot drop from boss but putting loot in chests which works on 'first come first serve' basis. And the one whop opens it gets the items bound so you can not even trade with others.
Theres nothing bound in ESO, expect the quest items you sometimes get. OR SET parts are bound after you equipped them. But having a profile of posts bashing the game told me everything :O.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Agreed. I will say that while I am not currently playing the game, they have been on top of fixes so I am hoping that this one gets addressed sooner than later. The PVE experience in an MMO is what I look to first and foremost and something like this is a deal breaker for me personally only because I can't convince even a few of my guildies to purchase ESO at the moment so I would be forced to do PUG's for all of my group content. I also prefer group oriented content over single player so it makes this issue a double whammy.
I'll stand with you, brother!!! It's already been stated in numerous articles that, in ESO, crafting will be an integral part to the game. This is by design. It's not some sort of flaw in the design. While we, maybe, didn't inherently know that it meant massively nerfed loot drops in dungeons, we were told/warned that crafting was going to be a big deal.
As far as the ninjas/trolls/a-holes. Been there, done that. The major difference before now was loot rules. However, the massive backlash on this topic is the exact reason that the world isn't ready for Sandboxes, even though they say they are. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in sandboxes where non-instanced dungeons are concerned. It's one reason that instances exist! It's also why loot rules exist!
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that this isn't anything new to anyone who really paid close attention to any information on the game. Oh! Also, I'm pretty sure that Al Capone, Hitler, Stalin, etc. didn't drop epic weapons. They were just bad dudes. As for bosses in ESO? Well, maybe they were also more concentrated on specing into damage roles instead of crafting, so they can't craft anything good yet. Just sayin'
Oh god, did you really just try to draw a comparison from irl ORDINARY HUMANS WHO ONLY HAVE CLOTHES AND GUNS to fantastical FUCKING MONSTERS WITH ARMOR, WEAPONS, MAGIC, ENCHANTED ITEMS, ETC.?
I'm just...im shocked. I'm truly shocked. Also spoils of war you kitty.
Just sayin' where do you get the expectation that a boss would drop something good?
Where do i get the expectation that a boss would drop something good? Shall i introduce you to risk vs reward?
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Lets use some perspective here... We had all these issues in FFXIV also. For one, the party who kicked that player should never have cleaned up his trash, anyone whos a troll wont stand around doing nothing for too long. They'll leave after you stop fighting and theres no progression going on.
Kick features and No Kick features work the same way.... Everything can be abused in any way shape and form no matter what, Start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug.
I personally think if you run with strangers your asking for trouble, you should ALWAYS run with guild buddies, we can have over 500 people in a guild do runs, its not too hard to find people who are associated to you in the form of a guild.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Lets use some perspective here... We had all these issues in FFXIV also. For one, the party who kicked that player should never have cleaned up his trash, anyone whos a troll wont stand around doing nothing for too long. They'll leave after you stop fighting and theres no progression going on.
Kick features and No Kick features work the same way.... Everything can be abused in any way shape and form no matter what, Start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug.
I personally think if you run with strangers your asking for trouble, you should ALWAYS run with guild buddies, we can have over 500 people in a guild do runs, its not too hard to find people who are associated to you in the form of a guild.
Fair enough I suppose. This still doesn't explain the issue that one player was allowed to remain in an instance and ruin it for the other 3 members. While I can agree with you that trolls are everywhere (obviously) and that any system can be abused, I just can't fathom the reasoning behind allowing a player who was kicked from a group in a group instance to be allowed to remain there.
Sure they could have reset the instance and picked up a new member, but that is a waste of the 3's time and efforts because the minority wanted to be an asshat. Sure they could have ran with guild members only, but maybe not everyone wants to only run with guild members or join a guild for that matter. I like meeting new people in my MMO's and am very social but I can acknowledge that there are those who do not. Sure they can change the loot system later and include a need/greed system or whatever they decide, but it will not address someone holding your game session at a stand still because he doesn't want to leave. And lastly, sure they can stand around and do nothing in the hopes that the troll would leave, but he didn't and not only that he trained groups back to them because of their inactivity.
The point is we can sit around here and spout out all kinds of different ways to work around the issue but it will not address the issue that the OP was showing in the video.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Lets use some perspective here... We had all these issues in FFXIV also. For one, the party who kicked that player should never have cleaned up his trash, anyone whos a troll wont stand around doing nothing for too long. They'll leave after you stop fighting and theres no progression going on.
Kick features and No Kick features work the same way.... Everything can be abused in any way shape and form no matter what, Start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug.
I personally think if you run with strangers your asking for trouble, you should ALWAYS run with guild buddies, we can have over 500 people in a guild do runs, its not too hard to find people who are associated to you in the form of a guild.
FFXIV did have similar problems and still do, but that's a show of what not to do, not what to copy and emulate in your own game.
As far the 'start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug'. Depending on the games mechanics not so simple to do. In FFXIV for instance, you leave, you incur a 30 minute dungeon cooldown. Also, not everyone can sit there and play all day long, some people only have an hour or two to play and issues like these severely cut into their playtime.
Lastly, it is not so simple to find people who's in your guild to do a dungeon with. Partly due to needing the right composition of classes. Partly due to the fact that many people don't like being in gigantic guilds that are entirely impersonal at times. Be honest, 500 people in 1 guild is fucking downright daunting and you can't realistically think a guild of 500 can be anywhere near as close knit as a smaller guild of say 20-30. Which is what most people are in, smaller guilds. And often times they just don't have enough on for the dungeon due to differing time zones or like i said earlier, group composition.
Though ESO's allowing of being in multiple guilds sort of alleviates this concern somewhat, but i question how many people actually utilize said feature due to stubbornly(or loyally?) holding on to pre-conceived traditions of guilds.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I'm not playing ESO. But I will say, the "game dungeon mechanics" don't PROMOTE trollish behavior. It's the ANONYMITY of the Internet that promotes trollish behavior- the Dungeon Trolls are just a side-effect of it.
Also, a lot of people weren't raised properly. Seriously, parents these days suck, and in turn, so do their snotty little children. Buy the kids whatever they want to shut them up, teach them to assume no personal responsibility, and unleash them on the world. /GetOffMyLawn
I hope this gets fixed for the ESO fans... it would really drive me up a wall. I am not sure how true it is that the Alpha/Beta testers brought it up to the Devs and they denied it, but if that's so... youch.
At the very least, make it customizable per group...
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
"Im ready for All the comparisons I think its dumb and its embarrassing Im switching off No longer listening Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
It is INCONCEIVABLE to me, how a MMO launching 2014 can be so BLANTATLY ignoring everything we learned about MMOs in the last 10 years! Zenimax acts as if their MMO was the first MMo ever made! Do we learn nothing!
This is just so laughable. They launch a MMO in 2014 with zero loot roll mechanics! Where kicked players stay in the dungeon and it even prevents the group from bringing in another person? It is so unbelievably amateurish to neglect such basic stuff in a MMO like loot roll mechanics and group handling. Not to speak of the sheer absurdity that chests vanish, once they are taken. Whoever introduced that to ESO needs to be banished from EVER making a MMO again! That's just hilariously wrong!
And bossses often drop just white trash? WTF? What incentive are you having, if a difficult boss just drops trash?
WHAT THE FUCK?
I still don't understand how such a system could get through any QA. ZoS developed the game in complete ignorance of every experience with previous MMOs. Chest and loot stealing... good riddance. We left behind that anti-social shit in the MMO dark ages! That certainly was NOT a feature from the past that needed ressurrection.
hahaha so true
Likely one of the many things they pushed off for release. I too feel it was a bad choice.
But if people here haven't suggested this through official channels to ZOS then stop wasting your time here.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
I'm not playing ESO. But I will say, the "game dungeon mechanics" don't PROMOTE trollish behavior. It's the ANONYMITY of the Internet that promotes trollish behavior- the Dungeon Trolls are just a side-effect of it.
Also, a lot of people weren't raised properly. Seriously, parents these days suck, and in turn, so do their snotty little children. Buy the kids whatever they want to shut them up, teach them to assume no personal responsibility, and unleash them on the world. /GetOffMyLawn
I hope this gets fixed for the ESO fans... it would really drive me up a wall. I am not sure how true it is that the Alpha/Beta testers brought it up to the Devs and they denied it, but if that's so... youch.
At the very least, make it customizable per group...
That's like saying, bad parenting + public schools don't PROMOTE school shootings, it's the ANONYMITY of the Ski shooting masks that promotes school shootings - the mass murderers are just a side-effect of them.
Seriously your whole argument has so many logical fallacies i dont even know where to start. I'm not gonna bother either.
Theres nothing bound in ESO, expect the quest items you sometimes get. OR SET parts are bound after you equipped them. But having a profile of posts bashing the game told me everything :O.
And out of my profile you conveniently ignored the posts where i have defended ESO when it deserved and also said several times why i am enjoying it a lot?
Ofcourse you did because that won't support your 'you dislike something about ESO so you must be hater' narrow minded view point. I have opened more chests than you can even dream of and i got all bound blue gear from it. So i am not just making stuff up here. Dungeon chests and open world chests two different things.
But hey lets ignore the real issue and lets focus on whether items from chest are bound or not because that is what this video was about right?
But the other thing he was saying is that bosses need to have phat loot. And that is just plain not getting that dungeons here are not meant to be repeated. They're just not set-up that way... and the XP in there is crap deliberately to discourage leveling through endless dungeon queuing.
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
Question. Why does it get your panties in such a bunch if someone chooses to run dungeons over and over for loot? Is it any different from going out to getting mats to craft gear over and over for people? ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they wanted to get rid of a perfectly working system and implement something that would just alienate and infuriate their already low amount of customers.
3 words for you my very strange creature whom i still find amazing. Risk vs Reward.
Two words and an abbreviation :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
That maybe be true and the game is designed that way but I don't think it's wow brainwashing to kill the "epic" boss at the end of the dungeon and expect some type of better than avg loot to drop. That seems like a pretty normal place to find the better loot. One only has to look at the hobbit to see that idea has been around a lot longer than any video game.
Yes. But the problem with that tradition is that it also encourages repeat dungeon crawling as a way to gear up and level. I mean, shit. WOW has codified to such an extent that there are now in-game guides that tell you all the possible loot any given boss in any given dungeon or raid drops all nicely arranged by class and spec.
That IS the WOW way. Run dungeons over and over for the best loot at any given level is something hey want you to do.
ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they don't want that in their game. The lack of boss phat drops is very much a part of that decision. I mean, what do you think people would be doing if the best loot came from those dungeons?
Like I said, you can like their decision or not. And you can even have a fair complaint about having the choice of how to play taken away from you. But no boss loot is as deliberate as the XP nerf in those dungeons was.
I'm already starting to see the best loot come from, of all places, my guild's store...complete with the crafter's name who chose a great trait, improved it to purple and put a nice enchant on it. Haven't they've been saying all along that the best loot would be crafted? Well, it is.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Question. Why does it get your panties in such a bunch if someone chooses to run dungeons over and over for loot? Is it any different from going out to getting mats to craft gear over and over for people? ZOS, in their wisdom, has decided very definitively that they wanted to get rid of a perfectly working system and implement something that would just alienate and infuriate their already low amount of customers.
2 words and an abbreviation for you my very strange creature whom i still find amazing. Risk vs Reward.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I'll stand with you, brother!!! It's already been stated in numerous articles that, in ESO, crafting will be an integral part to the game. This is by design. It's not some sort of flaw in the design. While we, maybe, didn't inherently know that it meant massively nerfed loot drops in dungeons, we were told/warned that crafting was going to be a big deal.
As far as the ninjas/trolls/a-holes. Been there, done that. The major difference before now was loot rules. However, the massive backlash on this topic is the exact reason that the world isn't ready for Sandboxes, even though they say they are. This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME in sandboxes where non-instanced dungeons are concerned. It's one reason that instances exist! It's also why loot rules exist!
Anyway, just thought I'd mention that this isn't anything new to anyone who really paid close attention to any information on the game. Oh! Also, I'm pretty sure that Al Capone, Hitler, Stalin, etc. didn't drop epic weapons. They were just bad dudes. As for bosses in ESO? Well, maybe they were also more concentrated on specing into damage roles instead of crafting, so they can't craft anything good yet. Just sayin'
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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What I find more strange is a creature who bitches and complains every single time that a "WoW Clone" is released, but then any deviation from that yields similarly loud screams of hatred on "Why fix it if it ain't broken?" Geeez! People really need to make up their damn minds. Really, though, if you'd like to play something like WoW, why not just go play WoW?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Oh god, did you really just try to draw a comparison from irl ORDINARY HUMANS WHO ONLY HAVE CLOTHES AND GUNS to fantastical FUCKING MONSTERS WITH ARMOR, WEAPONS, MAGIC, ENCHANTED ITEMS, ETC.?
I'm just...im shocked. I'm truly shocked. Also spoils of war you kitty.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Agreed, except they would have to figure out if they need to lower the quality of loot obtained from chests in dungeons if they do this due to the fact that they would now be multiplying loot by 5 for every chest. So an even better fix would be to apply a need/greed roll to chest loot(like above green quality or w/e)
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
That's another good idea for a fix too. It may take more time to implement though being as there is no roll system in game now, where I feel like tweaking the way chests work would be a quick and easy short term solution. Good idea!
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
As with all games you'll get trolls, this one will be no exception. When you have millions playing you will run into them. Especially if you run with strangers.
I have two guilds now that are at 500, and the community inside those two guilds is AAA. I have only seen one fight, and that was over ps4 and xbox. So you cannot judge an entire community on just dungeon runs with strangers......
Woosh.jpg
We all know and understand there are trolls in every game. The problem in this game however lies in the fact that the games dungeon mechanics almost seem to PROMOTE trollish behavior.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I am guessing even mt TLDR was too long?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Just sayin' where do you get the expectation that a boss would drop something good? My guess is every other game out there! Nothing wrong with that. I have a special, addicted part of my heart dedicated to WoW and I'm sure I'll be back to it before the expansion is out. All I'm saying is that you were told! Why is this surprising?
Nope, not once did I say that. However, the WoW name has been dropped an awful lot, not only in this thread, but in others. I would say that loot rules and instancing is a popular feature of MMOs, hence any time that they're used in a game it simply adds fodder to the "WoW Clone" cannon.
Why change something that differentiates a game from the mainstream? Apparently that's what plenty of people want, based on the feedback we always hear on here. Either that, or the market truly IS 95% themepark lovers, just like I've always said. Well, I guess that we should know a little more about that once The Repop is out and maybe EQN?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Apparently lol. Give him a break though, at least it wasn't a profanity laced rant and semi-on topic
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Theres nothing bound in ESO, expect the quest items you sometimes get. OR SET parts are bound after you equipped them. But having a profile of posts bashing the game told me everything :O.
Agreed. I will say that while I am not currently playing the game, they have been on top of fixes so I am hoping that this one gets addressed sooner than later. The PVE experience in an MMO is what I look to first and foremost and something like this is a deal breaker for me personally only because I can't convince even a few of my guildies to purchase ESO at the moment so I would be forced to do PUG's for all of my group content. I also prefer group oriented content over single player so it makes this issue a double whammy.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Where do i get the expectation that a boss would drop something good? Shall i introduce you to risk vs reward?
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Lets use some perspective here... We had all these issues in FFXIV also. For one, the party who kicked that player should never have cleaned up his trash, anyone whos a troll wont stand around doing nothing for too long. They'll leave after you stop fighting and theres no progression going on.
Kick features and No Kick features work the same way.... Everything can be abused in any way shape and form no matter what, Start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug.
I personally think if you run with strangers your asking for trouble, you should ALWAYS run with guild buddies, we can have over 500 people in a guild do runs, its not too hard to find people who are associated to you in the form of a guild.
Fair enough I suppose. This still doesn't explain the issue that one player was allowed to remain in an instance and ruin it for the other 3 members. While I can agree with you that trolls are everywhere (obviously) and that any system can be abused, I just can't fathom the reasoning behind allowing a player who was kicked from a group in a group instance to be allowed to remain there.
Sure they could have reset the instance and picked up a new member, but that is a waste of the 3's time and efforts because the minority wanted to be an asshat. Sure they could have ran with guild members only, but maybe not everyone wants to only run with guild members or join a guild for that matter. I like meeting new people in my MMO's and am very social but I can acknowledge that there are those who do not. Sure they can change the loot system later and include a need/greed system or whatever they decide, but it will not address someone holding your game session at a stand still because he doesn't want to leave. And lastly, sure they can stand around and do nothing in the hopes that the troll would leave, but he didn't and not only that he trained groups back to them because of their inactivity.
The point is we can sit around here and spout out all kinds of different ways to work around the issue but it will not address the issue that the OP was showing in the video.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
FFXIV did have similar problems and still do, but that's a show of what not to do, not what to copy and emulate in your own game.
As far the 'start the dungeon over if you had a bad pug'. Depending on the games mechanics not so simple to do. In FFXIV for instance, you leave, you incur a 30 minute dungeon cooldown. Also, not everyone can sit there and play all day long, some people only have an hour or two to play and issues like these severely cut into their playtime.
Lastly, it is not so simple to find people who's in your guild to do a dungeon with. Partly due to needing the right composition of classes. Partly due to the fact that many people don't like being in gigantic guilds that are entirely impersonal at times. Be honest, 500 people in 1 guild is fucking downright daunting and you can't realistically think a guild of 500 can be anywhere near as close knit as a smaller guild of say 20-30. Which is what most people are in, smaller guilds. And often times they just don't have enough on for the dungeon due to differing time zones or like i said earlier, group composition.
Though ESO's allowing of being in multiple guilds sort of alleviates this concern somewhat, but i question how many people actually utilize said feature due to stubbornly(or loyally?) holding on to pre-conceived traditions of guilds.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I'm not playing ESO. But I will say, the "game dungeon mechanics" don't PROMOTE trollish behavior. It's the ANONYMITY of the Internet that promotes trollish behavior- the Dungeon Trolls are just a side-effect of it.
Also, a lot of people weren't raised properly. Seriously, parents these days suck, and in turn, so do their snotty little children. Buy the kids whatever they want to shut them up, teach them to assume no personal responsibility, and unleash them on the world. /GetOffMyLawn
I hope this gets fixed for the ESO fans... it would really drive me up a wall. I am not sure how true it is that the Alpha/Beta testers brought it up to the Devs and they denied it, but if that's so... youch.
At the very least, make it customizable per group...
Loves: SMITE, WildStar, Project Zomboid, PSO2, DCUO,
Worst Online Communities: WoW/WoD(the OG MMO Trolls), DayZ/WarZ, SMITE/LoL/DOTA, EVE Online, APB
"Im ready for
All the comparisons
I think its dumb and its embarrassing
Im switching off
No longer listening
Ive had enough of persecution and conditioning
Maybe its instinct- Were only animal" - Lily Allen, Sheezus
So what was all the closed beta testing was for?
That's like saying, bad parenting + public schools don't PROMOTE school shootings, it's the ANONYMITY of the Ski shooting masks that promotes school shootings - the mass murderers are just a side-effect of them.
Seriously your whole argument has so many logical fallacies i dont even know where to start. I'm not gonna bother either.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
And out of my profile you conveniently ignored the posts where i have defended ESO when it deserved and also said several times why i am enjoying it a lot?
Ofcourse you did because that won't support your 'you dislike something about ESO so you must be hater' narrow minded view point. I have opened more chests than you can even dream of and i got all bound blue gear from it. So i am not just making stuff up here. Dungeon chests and open world chests two different things.
But hey lets ignore the real issue and lets focus on whether items from chest are bound or not because that is what this video was about right?
Two words and an abbreviation :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson