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BIG ISSUE: Auto renewal and the Terms of Service (TOS)
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Do you have any answer to the obvious counterexamples - namely, the numerous people (like me) who had no charges? Or the people who canceled without being charged an extra month?
I want to turn this around: what are the motives of the people pushing this sort of smear?
There's nothing to "defend". They set up a poor billing system and anyone who is impacted by it can have it fixed by contacting customer service. The idea that a software company spent years and hundreds of thousands of man-hours creating a game just so they could run a credit card scheme is asinine.
Whoever created the system is likely getting reamed or fired for the bad PR it's caused.
Yes they can pre-authorize for $1 or less. Whichever accountant came up with charging the full amount is clearly a rere.
To warn people that it can happen, and has happened, perhaps?
Because it didn't happen to you personally doesn't mean it hasn't happened to anyone else.
And so long as it has happened to some people, then it is true and, hence, not a 'smear'.
I realize there are people who are going to try and defend Zenimax against any and all criticism, spinning any situation any way they can think of to try and make sure Zeni comes out smelling like a rose every time - every MMO has these people, including ESO.
However, if you're going to accuse people of "smearing" the company, make sure you're at least using the term correctly.
If you read all the topics related to this issue, you will realise that other than usual trolls no one is even entertaining this idea.The guy i quoted doesn't believe that. However he did explain his point regarding why it is not a usual practise and that pre authorisation can also be done without taking money from your account.
Honestly, the more the fans try to defend Zenimax more this issue will escalate. Since the very first topic regarding this came up..fans have been making excuses for the company and bashing those who are upset about being charged.
Even now you can see same people are trying to make it look as if there is some kind of agenda behind these complaints. that is how deluded they are.
So i doubt this is going to calm down that easily.
Exactly.
It's not s "smear" if this is actually happening, and it is. Just becuase this issue has not affected 6 or so regular defenders on this forum (which as we all know represents a tiny fraction of the overall playerbase) does not mean it has not happened to thousands and thousands of others. Something those defending this have no way of knowing.
So it's more a public service announcement than anything else. Only very paranoid individuals would see this as attacking their game rather than highlighting the pitfalls associated with a problematic billing system.
Why do you see this as a smear - which suggest some untruth; what Kartelli has posted are TESO's T&Cs.
It hasn't happened to you - fine - so why are they there? Kartelli - and others - have had problems and possibly these T&Cs could be used to make things more difficult for people. Possibly because they probably won't stand up in the EU, US though hmmm ...
Like I say above, if they have no basis, if there is no intention to use them; if they will never be used change the T&Cs and make them clearer.
WoWs T&Cs for example are radically different (cancel any time if requested, pro-rata refund based on time played / time left.)
It's this exactly. It's the fact that they CAN do it and they have already notified you and you agreed to it.
Lets take a ridiculous example and see how it sounds. If someone puts a gun to your head, they CAN shoot and kill you or they can decide not to. If they simply decide not to, is it ok that they ever put a gun to your head? Nothing happened, so it should be fine, right (or so it would seem following the logic in some of these posts)?
Yes, I know that the ZOS ToS are no where near the severity of this example, but if you want an analogy, ZOS is essentially holding the gun to it's customer's head. They can decide if they want to pull the trigger at any time and you have already agreed that it's ok whatever they decide to do. That's the whole problem. The door is open. If ZOS has no intention of following the wording in their ToS, they should change the ToS.
Do you even read the nonsense you post?
Even if it is few hundred people doesn't mean the problem should be just shrugged off. What kind of stupid logic is this? a problem is only more relevant if it happens to everyone?
Go have a look at the official customer care forums and you will see how many people have been effected by this.
Yeah i think you should visit official ESO forums i heard everything is fine over there.
I've been there, it's even worse lol. I'm just going to play the game that I think is the best game since Vanilla WoW, and the most fun I've had since the first time I stepped foot on the Frontiers of DAoC. Just ignore all gaming sites for awhile
He says it feels as if he's in a shady business deal and people are generally acting like this is was an intentional attempt to charge people before their 30 days. That's why I said what I said. Not only that, but ZOS has already shown good faith by giving early access folks 2 extra days before official billing starts due to downtime during early access.
Like I said, there's nothing to defend here because it is what it is, a poorly thought out and set up system and ZOS has already commented saying that people will indeed get their 30 days for free and that if their billing system has caused a problem for you to contact them and they will fix it.
Basically I'm not sure what exactly it is you (general you) want them to do. It seems like it would be more work on everyone's (players and ZOS) part for them to wipe all transactions and make everyone re-enter their card in order to be charged a $1 pre-auth fee instead. May as well let the pre-auth process complete itself and troubleshoot individuals on a case by case basis.
Honestly, I'm not on the side of ZOS (and I will openly admit that I'm a fanboy of ESO itself - as a game), but all I see are people piling on about what I can only say is a resolved issue. Unless people are offering solutions, it amounts to bashing for the sake of bashing (and even if you're not intending to do that, you're opening it up to trolls who have not purchased ESO at all to come in and make claims about how they're being screwed just because they want to see another game fail).
Here is the problem. More you will tell people that their problem is insignificant or that it is not a big deal more they will retaliate. it is for not you to decide whose problem is bigger and smaller.
As far as OP is concerned even i didn't know about EULA and i have been playing ESO since beta. He is simply trying to inform people about it..that is what these forums are for... to share information.
I've seen game launches with actual problems, and I know what an official forum looks like for such a game. There were reportedly something like 5 million people who tried the beta. I have no idea what the subscription rate is, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least hundreds of thousands. If tens of thousands of people had billing problems the web site would be shut down and unreadable, with every nook and cranny filled with complaints. Because that's exactly what happened with, for example, Total War Rome 2. Which had numerous game-ending crashes on release.
Instead what I'm seeing is entirely typical for normal, relatively smooth launches. There are always a few people who have problems, and the volume of complaints on the actual forums and the real fan sites is low. Here, however, there are people who seem to absolutely hate this game and who just move from attack to attack. After reading this sub-forum and looking at posting histories I fully expect the same people to pop up with some different reason why the game is terrible after this one fades.
And, no, posting things that are not correct is not providing information. It's called providing misinformation.
You should probably read other EULAs...
Well if you are saying EULA that OP posted is fake then yes it is mis information.
You might have a point if he didn't try and sway everyone to his interpretation of this whenever someone reads as something different than he's presenting it as.
"come talk to me if you have questions" or something along those lines comes to mind.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
He might not speak for them but he is the only logical person in this thread, oh and myself.
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That's exactly how mine showed as well. They did an Auth charge that was canceled at same moment. So no actual charge was made!
ITT a bunch of people that can't tell the difference between Terms of Service worded in a way that leaves the door wide open for Zenimax to take advantage of it's customers and the pre-authorization issue.
This issue has nothing to do with the preauth. It also has nothing to do with some desire for ESO to fail. What it IS about is highlighting text in the Terms of Service that leave the consumer wide open for good bending over. If Zenimax has no intention of bending its customers over, they should just change or remove that line of the Terms of Service. Minimally they should explain what it means in plain English.
Anyone arguing against this is essentially supporting Zenimax's ability to screw over consumers by their Terms of Service. Even if you are the biggest ESO fanboy there is, you should be able to see that this isn't an "ESO sucks" or "I want ZOS to fail" issue. In fact, changing the Terms of Service to more customer friendly text is GOOD for both the game and Zenimax as a company.
In this case. Uninstall all your Online Games. Delete your account from this website. Then throw your computer out of the window.
Like the poster above me already said. TOS and EULA's are all the same. EVERYWHERE!
If you don't like it. Better stop playing games althogether, throw away your computer and find a new hobby.
I'm saying the conclusions that he drew from it, and the things that people are posting about it, are incorrect. Do you dispute this? There is a world of difference between pointing out an actual problem and spending a lot of effort trying to infer malevolent potential intent from one of those obscure computer software term of service agreements.
WoW.
EvE and SWTOR - not as friendly but friendlier than TESO.