Originally posted by Ragnar1337 Soon even the most hardcore fanboys will have to admit that this game is pure garbage and totally designed as an up front cash grab because the game has no future past 2014. Worst designed MMO in a decade. I"m so glad I saved myself the money by playing the beta and seeing how horrible this game was before release. Anyone that doesn't ask for a refund is a sucker imo. As long as people keep paying for garbage we will continue to get garbage game like ESO.
A. I'm not a fanboi but I am playing and having fun.
B. Yes the game has bugs. I haven't run into any of the major game breaking bugs personally. Most software has bugs on release. Look at Microsoft. Doesn't excuse the it, but that's life. Deal with it.
3. Ive been playing this game every day for almost 4 weeks. I feel ive gotten my moneys worth. Doesn't make me a sucker.
Please go troll the WoW Star.... er, I mean Wild Star forums.
See, I was right there with you till the last comment. Why is it okay to defend this game by attacking another game? That makes you no better than the ESO haters. I just don't understand people sometimes...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
This post was made to inform people who are not happy with their purchase that there is in fact hope. Thats all, ignore it if you dont care.
And the reason i put it on these forums is because when i tried to put one on the Elder scrolls forms where most people need the post to be, Zenimax immediately deleted the post.
Are you suggesting that people are so stupid that they don't know what refunds are?
*forgot to mention, my question is rhetorical
Zenimax have it in their TOA that customers rescind all their rights to a refund however in countries like mine (Aus) we are protected from such rubbish. I got mine thru this morning as well, took 5m to arrange with CS (email) and 3days to arrive in my account. There are several other countries that protect their citizens consumer rights also and I think his intent was to let ppl know it is possible to get a refund as opposed to explaining what a refund is.
if you really think this is protecting its citizens rights by asking for a refund on a game three weeks after playing it the entire time you need to go back to school. This law wasnt designed for people like you that can basically play something for free for a month, devour the content and then get all their money back. Regardless if you liked it or not if you play it for a week or two you deserve to pay the box fee regardless if you like it or not. Unless you had a technical issue preventing you from playing there is no excuse for this sort of thing. Bugs happen in all new games including old ones like DAOC and EQ its part of the technical time in software thats unavoidable.
Originally posted by Ragnar1337 Soon even the most hardcore fanboys will have to admit that this game is pure garbage and totally designed as an up front cash grab because the game has no future past 2014. Worst designed MMO in a decade. I"m so glad I saved myself the money by playing the beta and seeing how horrible this game was before release. Anyone that doesn't ask for a refund is a sucker imo. As long as people keep paying for garbage we will continue to get garbage game like ESO.
A. I'm not a fanboi but I am playing and having fun.
B. Yes the game has bugs. I haven't run into any of the major game breaking bugs personally. Most software has bugs on release. Look at Microsoft. Doesn't excuse the it, but that's life. Deal with it.
3. Ive been playing this game every day for almost 4 weeks. I feel ive gotten my moneys worth. Doesn't make me a sucker.
Please go troll the WoW Star.... er, I mean Wild Star forums.
See, I was right there with you till the last comment. Why is it okay to defend this game by attacking another game? That makes you no better than the ESO haters. I just don't understand people sometimes...
You're correct. It was an unnecessary comment. I'm a bad person.
This post was made to inform people who are not happy with their purchase that there is in fact hope. Thats all, ignore it if you dont care.
And the reason i put it on these forums is because when i tried to put one on the Elder scrolls forms where most people need the post to be, Zenimax immediately deleted the post.
Are you suggesting that people are so stupid that they don't know what refunds are?
*forgot to mention, my question is rhetorical
Zenimax have it in their TOA that customers rescind all their rights to a refund however in countries like mine (Aus) we are protected from such rubbish. I got mine thru this morning as well, took 5m to arrange with CS (email) and 3days to arrive in my account. There are several other countries that protect their citizens consumer rights also and I think his intent was to let ppl know it is possible to get a refund as opposed to explaining what a refund is.
if you really think this is protecting its citizens rights by asking for a refund on a game three weeks after playing it the entire time you need to go back to school. This law wasnt designed for people like you that can basically play something for free for a month, devour the content and then get all their money back. Regardless if you liked it or not if you play it for a week or two you deserve to pay the box fee regardless if you like it or not. Unless you had a technical issue preventing you from playing there is no excuse for this sort of thing. Bugs happen in all new games including old ones like DAOC and EQ its part of the technical time in software thats unavoidable.
I just finished my lunch and it wasn't as good as I had hoped, I believe I'm due for a refund.
Typical part of a poor american law, its meant for customer protection but gets largely abused by people that refuse to pay for most things anyway...
Another good example of this: warehouse chain Costco used to have a 1 year "return for (pretty much) any reason return policy". Great, right?
Then people started to buy big screen TVs, use them for a year minus one day, then return them to Costco and upgrade to the newer model. Thanks, fuckers.
Return policy is now 30 days for certain electronics I think.
OT: so, Zenimax ok'd the refunds with paypal? Good for them. Some people clamoring for refunds for their games is fairly standard, happens to all games in some numbers.
It would be nice if a) game companies would be more accepting of this, because sometimes stuff just doesn't work (broken game, or your custom PC just won't run the game), and b) we gamers don't take advantage of this just to play a game for free.
... and since b) won't happen I won't hold my breath for a) either.
If he got to level 50 in just a week then he truly does deserve a refund
C'mon people, you're telling everyone to speak with their wallet if they want change in this genre. When they finally do so, however, you accuse them of taking away the necessary funds to fix the very problems that caused people to demand a refund in the first place.. And I don't see why they have to fund a problem that isn't supposed to be there.
Whether or not ESO is a good game depends on the one who plays it. I'm happy for those who enjoy it and I feel for those who didn't get what they expected. Remember, just because a bug didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's non-existent. By defending a flaw you're only hurting the game you're trying to protect. Be critical.
And for others who might be interested in a refund, even those inside EU: Many countries, including those within EU, have separate laws regarding refunds. It's not the first time that online companies have made illegal terms that actually doesn't apply in some countries. Thus, their claim of non-refunding can be overruled
If he got to level 50 in just a week then he truly does deserve a refund
C'mon people, you're telling everyone to speak with their wallet if they want change in this genre. When they finally do so, however, you accuse them of taking away the necessary funds to fix the very problems that caused people to demand a refund in the first place.. And I don't see why they have to fund a problem that isn't supposed to be there.
Whether or not ESO is a good game depends on the one who plays it. I'm happy for those who enjoy it and I feel for those who didn't get what they expected. Remember, just because a bug didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's non-existent. By defending a flaw you're only hurting the game you're trying to protect. Be critical.
And for others who might be interested in a refund, even those inside EU: Many countries, including those within EU, have separate laws regarding refunds. It's not the first time that online companies have made illegal terms that actually doesn't apply in the some countries. Thus, their claim of non-refunding can be overruled
Speaking with your wallet doesn't mean playing for weeks, burning through the content and then demanding a full refund.
Does the OP realize that his actions make the world a bad place? Play for a week and get stuck at level 10, that's one thing. Skip a bunch of stuff, get to 50, and then can't do a quest and you didn't get your money's worth? Give me a break.
If he got to level 50 in just a week then he truly does deserve a refund
C'mon people, you're telling everyone to speak with their wallet if they want change in this genre. When they finally do so, however, you accuse them of taking away the necessary funds to fix the very problems that caused people to demand a refund in the first place.. And I don't see why they have to fund a problem that isn't supposed to be there.
Whether or not ESO is a good game depends on the one who plays it. I'm happy for those who enjoy it and I feel for those who didn't get what they expected. Remember, just because a bug didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's non-existent. By defending a flaw you're only hurting the game you're trying to protect. Be critical.
And for others who might be interested in a refund, even those inside EU: Many countries, including those within EU, have separate laws regarding refunds. It's not the first time that online companies have made illegal terms that actually doesn't apply in the some countries. Thus, their claim of non-refunding can be overruled
Speaking with your wallet doesn't mean playing for weeks, burning through the content and then demanding a full refund.
It does if a particular fault is hindering further progress. Even more so if the fault or flaw has been reported several times and remained unfixed. I grant you, we cannot know whether or not OP's words are actually true in this regard. There will always be some who exploit the system and some who are truly in need of a refund.
This post was made to inform people who are not happy with their purchase that there is in fact hope. Thats all, ignore it if you dont care.
And the reason i put it on these forums is because when i tried to put one on the Elder scrolls forms where most people need the post to be, Zenimax immediately deleted the post.
Are you suggesting that people are so stupid that they don't know what refunds are?
*forgot to mention, my question is rhetorical
Zenimax have it in their TOA that customers rescind all their rights to a refund however in countries like mine (Aus) we are protected from such rubbish. I got mine thru this morning as well, took 5m to arrange with CS (email) and 3days to arrive in my account. There are several other countries that protect their citizens consumer rights also and I think his intent was to let ppl know it is possible to get a refund as opposed to explaining what a refund is.
if you really think this is protecting its citizens rights by asking for a refund on a game three weeks after playing it the entire time you need to go back to school. This law wasnt designed for people like you that can basically play something for free for a month, devour the content and then get all their money back. Regardless if you liked it or not if you play it for a week or two you deserve to pay the box fee regardless if you like it or not. Unless you had a technical issue preventing you from playing there is no excuse for this sort of thing. Bugs happen in all new games including old ones like DAOC and EQ its part of the technical time in software thats unavoidable.
You need remedial comprehension.
How did you arrive at your assumption that I beat the game in three weeks and used a refund to get it for free? It's like you saw some key words that pushed your auto regurgitation button and off you went. In my country if we aren't satisfied with the quality of a product or service we are protected under consumer law in that we can request a refund. Part of that law also prevents businesses from rescinding it.
You are kidding yourself if you think the issues with this game and customer service fall into minor commissioning bugs.
So an MMO was played for 2 weeks......2 weeks......and this is an absolute wall? I agree that many MMOs are being released with bugs and glitches and exploits etc, but a couple weeks in an MMO is a blink. Slow down, enjoy the content that was worked on for years and enjoy the things that went right. Create another character, blink again and you will be at endgame and perhaps not get the progression destroying bug that was experienced last time and perhaps that old bug will have been squashed by then. I just think in the MMO space to completely lambast a game after blitzing through it in a couple weeks is a little reckless.
Now having said this, I only played a couple days of beta and am actually here to research whether or not to play this one on live servers. I see there are some concerns and you certainly do sway my decision a bit, but I just can't give credibility to folks who think the world should stop because the content isn't totally bug free. Blame the BETA testers for not reporting it, lol.
I say that overall, in this situation, it's a good thing. I don't care if the OP got his money's worth or not or if it can be said that he's cheating ZM. What about ZM cheating everyone else? Consumers can send a message to these developers/publishers that they need to stop releasing broken crap. Fisnish development properly, release completed games that have been tested, QA'd and that basically work as intended.
Now, as far as the OP's right to a refund.....I say he has every right. ZM did not deliver a game that was ready for release. OP didn't get what he paid for. 3 days or 3 weeks, what does it matter if the product is incomplete? These companies need to be held accountable for what they sell. Simple as that.
Typical part of a poor american law, its meant for customer protection but gets largely abused by people that refuse to pay for most things anyway...
This law does not work in any European country except Norway, buying this game in europe explicitly said no refunds according to law X...
And since you probably got over a hundred hours in gametime... no judge would say you did not get any value from the purchase because of some stupid Bug..
actually i had less then 40 hours worth of game time and i was vr5. My bug was largely reported and was never fixed. This happened to me for 2 weeks and showed no sign of being fixed. I'm sorry but a game that doesn't allow you to move forwards in the story or in anyway what-so-ever is broken by definition. As a consumer I used my rights to refund the game before I payed for the sub fee.
I feel bad for the europeans, but yeah i took in account the game time which I played and told pay pal that i would accept a refund of 50 dollars rather then 59.99 if they couldnt get a full refund, saying that those 9 dollars would be almost about the same as paying for a half months worth of play time. They gave me the full refund anyways. So yeah i took into account that the game is intrunsically a service when i made this decision, but either way I didnt want to continue to pay for a game that was clearly broken for me and wasnt being fixed for another month or 2. Hell a youtuber, force-strategy gamer made a video about a similar bug not long ago that he him self was stuck in. I was stuck in my bug for 2 weeks and he was raging about being stuck in his bug for less then 2-3 days.
and you could of continued to report the issue every day to stay on them. You were VR5 thats a ton of hours into a game that you felt isnt worth the box price but had no issues getting all the way to 50. If you liked the game past 10 regardless of a bug that will be fixed as you know in a patch probably soon you could of just protested and stopped your sub until its fixed. Thats money out of the developers pocket for a game you obviously liked all the way to 50 yet think because of a bug that is serious yes , that you deserve not to pay a dime for..... Seriously dude grow up man this is immature and you know it or anyone here rational will see it. Read the post from Matt Frior, those bugs were a priority but demanding your money back isnt going to help nor solve the problem any sooner. But I guess you do not care anyways you got all the way to 50 for free now....
I find it interesting that only in video games industry specially mmorpg's if a person wants a better value for his money or is not satisfied with product / service provided to him he would be called immature or hater.
Where as anywhere else in the sane world returning a faulty or broken product would be considered smart, intelligent and mature thing to do.
One week or two weeks play time doesn't matter. if the product he paid for isn't working up to his satisfaction he has the right to return it.
What a bizzaro world mmo gamers live in where being pro active and responsible with your money gets you labeled as immature.
ahh, no thanks, but thanks for the info, its still way too early to see where this game goes in the long run and I don't really feel like repurchasing it again in the future.
i've come to the conclusion I have been playing mmorpg's for a long time and it will always be a gamble when buying these types of games.
I think people should start voting with wallets a lot more and it shouldn't be such a problem to get a refund on a game which's half-done or broken.
I 100% agree, voting with our wallets is the only way any company really listens =-) To OP, good for you. Anyone flaming you is not worth listening too. Its awesome you are helping people find a way to vote with their wallets. To the people who love the game and will keep playing till they fix it, good for you for supporting the game!!!! To each their own.
I pretty sure since you didnt go through the company for a refund then your account will be banned. You basicly did the same thing as a charge back that credit card companies do. And the game companies can and most likely will perma ban your account for doing such things.
Originally posted by Tsuru I pretty sure since you didnt go through the company for a refund then your account will be banned. You basicly did the same thing as a charge back that credit card companies do. And the game companies can and most likely will perma ban your account for doing such things.
Not likely, more like they will remove the CD Key and hope he buys a copy one day he can add so they make money. I did something like this once with another game.
Reading through this proves how bad U.S. gaming industry treats its customers. And because the U.S. gamer is used to being treated this way they just take it up the butt. This guys gets a refund and hes treated like an a bad person here. The laws here have always been about protecting the big company against the cosumer and everyone is ok with that. In fact it should be part of the free 30 days that you can return it if your not happy. They charge you 60+ dollars and on top of that a 15 dollar a month fee. You should be able to return it. Name in other product that you can buy thats broken and your stuck with no way of returning it. To the OP,good for you man.
Originally posted by Hariken Reading through this proves how bad U.S. gaming industry treats its customers. And because the U.S. gamer is used to being treated this way they just take it up the butt. This guys gets a refund and hes treated like an a bad person here. The laws here have always been about protecting the big company against the cosumer and everyone is ok with that. In fact it should be part of the free 30 days that you can return it if your not happy. They charge you 60+ dollars and on top of that a 15 dollar a month fee. You should be able to return it. Name in other product that you can buy thats broken and your stuck with no way of returning it. To the OP,good for you man.
Anything with a sealed package that gives you licence rights like software, movies, music cds. All no refund, only replacement. IMO only under extreme circumstance should software be refunded. IMO if ZM had offered to extend the free time to all players till they fix the problems. You may see less people upset like this.
I think people should start voting with wallets a lot more and it shouldn't be such a problem to get a refund on a game which's half-done or broken.
I paid with a credit card and got a refund, so it's not just a paypal thing. You just have to get in touch with CS. Of course, I'm not sure how effective a refund request will be after the 30 days of free time is up, but still.
Anyone have any luck with amazon digital purchase? I havent even input the key into my account yet. I suppose I could just call and find out but hopefully someone can help me avoid wasting my time and possible frustration on a futile attempt.
Originally posted by Hariken Reading through this proves how bad U.S. gaming industry treats its customers. And because the U.S. gamer is used to being treated this way they just take it up the butt. This guys gets a refund and hes treated like an a bad person here. The laws here have always been about protecting the big company against the cosumer and everyone is ok with that. In fact it should be part of the free 30 days that you can return it if your not happy. They charge you 60+ dollars and on top of that a 15 dollar a month fee. You should be able to return it. Name in other product that you can buy thats broken and your stuck with no way of returning it. To the OP,good for you man.
This isn't a US gaming industry issue, though. It's a long-standing software issue. The main point of "no-return" policies on software is that returning the physical product doesn't mean returning the software. 20 years ago, you could buy a program, install and activate it, then return it for a full refund. The program would still work just fine, and the problem gets sorted out between the retailer and the creator. Problem is, the creator knows the software is still in use, so they would reject the RMA request from the retailing, meaning the retailer is left holding the bag.
So retailers started the whole "no-return" policy on software, which makes sense considering they tend to be on the losing end of any argument here.
As more products are released as "services" rather than actual software, this is largely going away. A lot of companies like MS, Adobe, and of course games, are moving towards subscription models. Not only does it smooth out their flow of income, but it makes systematic abuses such as piracy and refund scams largely irrelevant.
So no, this isn't the US gaming industry screwing people over. It's just the way the retail industry has evolved with the software industry.
Comments
See, I was right there with you till the last comment. Why is it okay to defend this game by attacking another game? That makes you no better than the ESO haters. I just don't understand people sometimes...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
if you really think this is protecting its citizens rights by asking for a refund on a game three weeks after playing it the entire time you need to go back to school. This law wasnt designed for people like you that can basically play something for free for a month, devour the content and then get all their money back. Regardless if you liked it or not if you play it for a week or two you deserve to pay the box fee regardless if you like it or not. Unless you had a technical issue preventing you from playing there is no excuse for this sort of thing. Bugs happen in all new games including old ones like DAOC and EQ its part of the technical time in software thats unavoidable.
You're correct. It was an unnecessary comment. I'm a bad person.
I just finished my lunch and it wasn't as good as I had hoped, I believe I'm due for a refund.
Another good example of this: warehouse chain Costco used to have a 1 year "return for (pretty much) any reason return policy". Great, right?
Then people started to buy big screen TVs, use them for a year minus one day, then return them to Costco and upgrade to the newer model. Thanks, fuckers.
Return policy is now 30 days for certain electronics I think.
OT: so, Zenimax ok'd the refunds with paypal? Good for them. Some people clamoring for refunds for their games is fairly standard, happens to all games in some numbers.
It would be nice if a) game companies would be more accepting of this, because sometimes stuff just doesn't work (broken game, or your custom PC just won't run the game), and b) we gamers don't take advantage of this just to play a game for free.
... and since b) won't happen I won't hold my breath for a) either.
If he got to level 50 in just a week then he truly does deserve a refund
C'mon people, you're telling everyone to speak with their wallet if they want change in this genre. When they finally do so, however, you accuse them of taking away the necessary funds to fix the very problems that caused people to demand a refund in the first place.. And I don't see why they have to fund a problem that isn't supposed to be there.
Whether or not ESO is a good game depends on the one who plays it. I'm happy for those who enjoy it and I feel for those who didn't get what they expected. Remember, just because a bug didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's non-existent. By defending a flaw you're only hurting the game you're trying to protect. Be critical.
And for others who might be interested in a refund, even those inside EU: Many countries, including those within EU, have separate laws regarding refunds. It's not the first time that online companies have made illegal terms that actually doesn't apply in some countries. Thus, their claim of non-refunding can be overruled
Speaking with your wallet doesn't mean playing for weeks, burning through the content and then demanding a full refund.
Does the OP realize that his actions make the world a bad place? Play for a week and get stuck at level 10, that's one thing. Skip a bunch of stuff, get to 50, and then can't do a quest and you didn't get your money's worth? Give me a break.
It does if a particular fault is hindering further progress. Even more so if the fault or flaw has been reported several times and remained unfixed. I grant you, we cannot know whether or not OP's words are actually true in this regard. There will always be some who exploit the system and some who are truly in need of a refund.
It's impossible to get all content in one week !!! There are so many quest lore quest dungeon exploration .....
even being a no life retard and you wont manage to see all content .....
these ppl lvled by killing trash like zombies brainless zombies !!!
one of their week for most people are a year ....
You need remedial comprehension.
How did you arrive at your assumption that I beat the game in three weeks and used a refund to get it for free? It's like you saw some key words that pushed your auto regurgitation button and off you went. In my country if we aren't satisfied with the quality of a product or service we are protected under consumer law in that we can request a refund. Part of that law also prevents businesses from rescinding it.
You are kidding yourself if you think the issues with this game and customer service fall into minor commissioning bugs.
So an MMO was played for 2 weeks......2 weeks......and this is an absolute wall? I agree that many MMOs are being released with bugs and glitches and exploits etc, but a couple weeks in an MMO is a blink. Slow down, enjoy the content that was worked on for years and enjoy the things that went right. Create another character, blink again and you will be at endgame and perhaps not get the progression destroying bug that was experienced last time and perhaps that old bug will have been squashed by then. I just think in the MMO space to completely lambast a game after blitzing through it in a couple weeks is a little reckless.
Now having said this, I only played a couple days of beta and am actually here to research whether or not to play this one on live servers. I see there are some concerns and you certainly do sway my decision a bit, but I just can't give credibility to folks who think the world should stop because the content isn't totally bug free. Blame the BETA testers for not reporting it, lol.
I say that overall, in this situation, it's a good thing. I don't care if the OP got his money's worth or not or if it can be said that he's cheating ZM. What about ZM cheating everyone else? Consumers can send a message to these developers/publishers that they need to stop releasing broken crap. Fisnish development properly, release completed games that have been tested, QA'd and that basically work as intended.
Now, as far as the OP's right to a refund.....I say he has every right. ZM did not deliver a game that was ready for release. OP didn't get what he paid for. 3 days or 3 weeks, what does it matter if the product is incomplete? These companies need to be held accountable for what they sell. Simple as that.
I find it interesting that only in video games industry specially mmorpg's if a person wants a better value for his money or is not satisfied with product / service provided to him he would be called immature or hater.
Where as anywhere else in the sane world returning a faulty or broken product would be considered smart, intelligent and mature thing to do.
One week or two weeks play time doesn't matter. if the product he paid for isn't working up to his satisfaction he has the right to return it.
What a bizzaro world mmo gamers live in where being pro active and responsible with your money gets you labeled as immature.
to op..
ahh, no thanks, but thanks for the info, its still way too early to see where this game goes in the long run and I don't really feel like repurchasing it again in the future.
i've come to the conclusion I have been playing mmorpg's for a long time and it will always be a gamble when buying these types of games.
I 100% agree, voting with our wallets is the only way any company really listens =-) To OP, good for you. Anyone flaming you is not worth listening too. Its awesome you are helping people find a way to vote with their wallets. To the people who love the game and will keep playing till they fix it, good for you for supporting the game!!!! To each their own.
Not likely, more like they will remove the CD Key and hope he buys a copy one day he can add so they make money. I did something like this once with another game.
Anything with a sealed package that gives you licence rights like software, movies, music cds. All no refund, only replacement. IMO only under extreme circumstance should software be refunded. IMO if ZM had offered to extend the free time to all players till they fix the problems. You may see less people upset like this.
I paid with a credit card and got a refund, so it's not just a paypal thing. You just have to get in touch with CS. Of course, I'm not sure how effective a refund request will be after the 30 days of free time is up, but still.
You make me like charity
This isn't a US gaming industry issue, though. It's a long-standing software issue. The main point of "no-return" policies on software is that returning the physical product doesn't mean returning the software. 20 years ago, you could buy a program, install and activate it, then return it for a full refund. The program would still work just fine, and the problem gets sorted out between the retailer and the creator. Problem is, the creator knows the software is still in use, so they would reject the RMA request from the retailing, meaning the retailer is left holding the bag.
So retailers started the whole "no-return" policy on software, which makes sense considering they tend to be on the losing end of any argument here.
As more products are released as "services" rather than actual software, this is largely going away. A lot of companies like MS, Adobe, and of course games, are moving towards subscription models. Not only does it smooth out their flow of income, but it makes systematic abuses such as piracy and refund scams largely irrelevant.
So no, this isn't the US gaming industry screwing people over. It's just the way the retail industry has evolved with the software industry.
You make me like charity