Actually good decision trying to adjust the AoE problem in PvP, it was too easy.
This x1000.
Many of you either A: Do not PvP very much, or B: Use the aoes yourselves.
I have been in zergs of 50+ people, and all it takes is 1 VR10 AOE-er to jump randomly amongst the zerg and spam the AOE 2-3 times to kill most of the people.
(Waits for the "Don't PvP as a low level then") Actually i will do whatever the eff I want, PvP is open at 10+ for a reason, so people can play it. And that is why I play it, because I pay my dues for the game, and I can play how I like.
Having 1 person (M i k o - cough cough) who has multiple users sharing 1 account to stay at the top of the leaderboards (or 1 dude with seriously no life what so ever), killing a whole attacking army with a couple AOEs is ridiculous.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Actually good decision trying to adjust the AoE problem in PvP, it was too easy.
This x1000.
Many of you either A: Do not PvP very much, or B: Use the aoes yourselves.
I have been in zergs of 50+ people, and all it takes is 1 VR10 AOE-er to jump randomly amongst the zerg and spam the AOE 2-3 times to kill most of the people.
(Waits for the "Don't PvP as a low level then") Actually i will do whatever the eff I want, PvP is open at 10+ for a reason, so people can play it. And that is why I play it, because I pay my dues for the game, and I can play how I like.
Having 1 person (M i k o - cough cough) who has multiple users sharing 1 account to stay at the top of the leaderboards (or 1 dude with seriously no life what so ever), killing a whole attacking army with a couple AOEs is ridiculous.
Stop staking. You nerf the AoE then, not how all AoEs work alltogether.
Actually good decision trying to adjust the AoE problem in PvP, it was too easy.
This x1000.
Many of you either A: Do not PvP very much, or B: Use the aoes yourselves.
I have been in zergs of 50+ people, and all it takes is 1 VR10 AOE-er to jump randomly amongst the zerg and spam the AOE 2-3 times to kill most of the people.
(Waits for the "Don't PvP as a low level then") Actually i will do whatever the eff I want, PvP is open at 10+ for a reason, so people can play it. And that is why I play it, because I pay my dues for the game, and I can play how I like.
Having 1 person (M i k o - cough cough) who has multiple users sharing 1 account to stay at the top of the leaderboards (or 1 dude with seriously no life what so ever), killing a whole attacking army with a couple AOEs is ridiculous.
OK. Went ahead and added a note to the beginning of my OP for some of our more special snowflakes.
The issue is NOT that AOEs are being nerfed. Some of them do need it. The issue is the method in which they are doing it.
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.
Maybe it's not the apocalypse starting as we thought.
As a VR4 Sorcerer who benefits from several of these to-be-nerfed AOE abilities, all I can really say is that it was fun while it lasted. But c'mon, get serious... some of it was ridiculously OPd.
Here's a group of 3 including a Vamp using his bat swarm ultimate, taking down a large group at an objective flag:
Rationalize all you want about "skill" and "teamspeak" etc., but it's not like they're eliminating this, just toning it down... maybe in the future it'll take 6... or 2 vamps
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The definition of back-peddling, do yourself a favor and delete this thread. It would be the right thing to do as your point seems to waver on a whim.
I vote we ignore him, he didn't contribute to the thread the slightest and still doesn't understand how tactics work in pvp. For me, he's the definition of flame-bait.
The definition of back-peddling, do yourself a favor and delete this thread. It would be the right thing to do as your point seems to waver on a whim.
Still failing horribly at reading comprehension it seems. Did I say "nerf" in my title? No. Did I say "caps" (which is the "method" of nerfing which is being discussed) in my title? Yes. Is that what the thread is about, and what I have been saying throughout the whole thing? Yes.
You seem to for some odd reason be incapable of reading more than a sentence at a time and clearly didn't even read the OP. I have been saying the same thing all along. You should try actually reading things sometime instead of just trolling with zero validity to what you're saying.
Here, I can even try to dumb it down into individual sentences to read between the headaches and nosebleeds for you:
Blanket nerfs to a bunch of skills because of a few considered OP instead of individual skill balancing = bad
Hard caps on all AoEs just to avoid a few being OP, resulting in a huge advantage being given to having the bigger force = bad
Looking into the specifics of each skill and adjusting things like their power, resource cost, radius, adding diminishing returns, etc = good
Giving even more of an advantage to zergs, who already have the advantage of numbers and sheer firepower = bad
Reading the details of he discussion before replying rather than getting a shit attitude because you lack the ability to grasp the words that right in your face = good
As a VR4 Sorcerer who benefits from several of these to-be-nerfed AOE abilities, all I can really say is that it was fun while it lasted. But c'mon, get serious... some of it was ridiculously OPd.
Here's a group of 3 including a Vamp using his bat swarm ultimate, taking down a large group at an objective flag:
Rationalize all you want about "skill" and "teamspeak" etc., but it's not like they're eliminating this, just toning it down... maybe in the future it'll take 6... or 2 vamps
That video shows that the AOEs do indeed need to be tuned down. I bet it was a pretty cool feeling to be one of those 3 guys that smoked that whole raid and then some. However, 3 guys should not be able to do that, that quickly. I'm not saying that not one of their enemies should have died there, but not fkn all of them that quickly. Serious design flaw there though it's good to see they are adjusting it.
Maybe wait until after you try the change. Then start an uproar.
Indeed, you know I've seen this same type of behavior (the OP) in WoW when they adjusted the AoE for the exact same reasons. The outcry was horrible, it went on for months, and you know what? IT HELPED THE GAME. This guy is just upset his ZOMG PWNYOU I'M BADASS days are over. And I've read your mumbo jumbo about strategy and you know what I think? You're simply a liar. I don't like ESO for many reasons but when they make a smart move I will acknowledge it and say as much.
Maybe wait until after you try the change. Then start an uproar.
Indeed, you know I've seen this same type of behavior (the OP) in WoW when they adjusted the AoE for the exact same reasons. The outcry was horrible, it went on for months, and you know what? IT HELPED THE GAME. This guy is just upset his ZOMG PWNYOU I'M BADASS days are over. And I've read your mumbo jumbo about strategy and you know what I think? You're simply a liar. I don't like ESO for many reasons but when they make a smart move I will acknowledge it and say as much.
/facepalm
Again with the not reading, or understanding what you're reading.
I am a Nightblade bow user who is built purely for single target damage. I do not even have a single AoE on my hotbars, unless I am doing some AoE farming in PvE. This change would only benefit me personally as others who DO use AoEs will become less effective. That does not make it a good change for the game overall though.
As I have explained, repeatedly, this is not an issue of changes not being needed to AoEs. I agree some of them do need changes. But limiting the number of targets, and making AoEs just randomly pick 6 targets out of a whole group, is not the way to do it. Are you really too slow to grasp that concept? It certainly seems so.
@jonesing22: There is no need to wait when people have already seen the bad results of similar systems in other games along with having the common sense to understand the impact that it has. Once it goes live, it's too late. Sure, they may change it back eventually, but by then the pop will have died because of people not liking such changes.
Over 90% of the nearly 2000 people who have voted so far are against it, and a very large number of posts in that thread contain players who have barely been holding on to the game to begin with while waiting for improvements, and will be leaving if this change goes through, just like they did in other games where this happened.
"We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday. That said, this only impacts a handful of area-of-effect abilities that did not already have a cap. Almost every area-of-effect ability in ESO already has a cap on the live server. This is not a sweeping change to all area-of-effect abilities."
I think it was a case of bad wording on the patch notes. Plus the concept of "zerg stacking" on this game really scares me and a lot of people.
Actually good decision trying to adjust the AoE problem in PvP, it was too easy.
There were like 3 ultimates and multiple synergy activations going on in that tightly packed group. If anything, the 4-5 players caught that group off guard and dropped enough AoE/Ultimates/CC to wipe them out because the zerg was stupid.
That and the VR dudes.
I'd much rather they reduce the damage of an AoE depending upon how many targets are being hit so things like AoE Roots will hit and affect all targets in range rather than cap the number of targets it hits.
I used an AoE skill to keep my tank alive against large groups now I'm ruined. There go the boosters ruining games again. Good job pricks.
All jokes aside, WTF else are we supposed to do when you try to pull 1 mob in a dungeon and the entire thing comes crashing down on your party? This is dumb.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
This was a horrible idea in GW2 and it's gonna be more of the same here. For all those complaining that a smaller group shouldn't be able to fight off a larger one - do u guys comprehend that's what promotes less zerging? If the small group has no way to defend against or escape the Zerg then what's the reason to roam in small groups? Please zenimax remove these changes.
Kind of reminds me of what happened with guild wars 2 WvWvW.
Everyone already know how that turned out.
Don't make that same mistake ZOS.
Seriously this. AOE are suppose to hit multiple targets, but you counter-balance it but reducing the dmg output. GW2 already had issue in WVW's design, just like ESO does, but an aoe cap is just another stupid design move.
GW2 has no caps on the control fields, only damage/healing is capped. ESO won't even have that much.
Copied from a poster on the official forums, not sure if he is right but maybe this explains a bit more.
I think the premise of the post is wrong. Most people have a bad reaction when they hear aoe cap, because of GW2. What most people do not know, is that it was really a combination of aoe cap plus how aoe worked, that made it bad.
In GW2 aoe was almost all ground based, and did not stack. In this game (ESO) most ground based aoe does stack, and lots of aoe is not ground based at all.
What this means is that in GW2 if a zerg all stacked on a dime, only one aoe could hit them at a time.So 3 people attacking a zerg stack in GW2 with aoe would result in 6 people getting hit. In ESO it would result in 18 hits (not necessarily 18 different people).
So aoe damage even with caps will still scale fairly well in ESO, unlike GW2.
Copied from a poster on the official forums, not sure if he is right but maybe this explains a bit more.
I think the premise of the post is wrong. Most people have a bad reaction when they hear aoe cap, because of GW2. What most people do not know, is that it was really a combination of aoe cap plus how aoe worked, that made it bad.
In GW2 aoe was almost all ground based, and did not stack. In this game (ESO) most ground based aoe does stack, and lots of aoe is not ground based at all.
What this means is that in GW2 if a zerg all stacked on a dime, only one aoe could hit them at a time.So 3 people attacking a zerg stack in GW2 with aoe would result in 6 people getting hit. In ESO it would result in 18 hits (not necessarily 18 different people).
So aoe damage even with caps will still scale fairly well in ESO, unlike GW2.
You do realize you just copied a bunch of nonsense?
Copied from a poster on the official forums, not sure if he is right but maybe this explains a bit more.
I think the premise of the post is wrong. Most people have a bad reaction when they hear aoe cap, because of GW2. What most people do not know, is that it was really a combination of aoe cap plus how aoe worked, that made it bad.
In GW2 aoe was almost all ground based, and did not stack. In this game (ESO) most ground based aoe does stack, and lots of aoe is not ground based at all.
What this means is that in GW2 if a zerg all stacked on a dime, only one aoe could hit them at a time.So 3 people attacking a zerg stack in GW2 with aoe would result in 6 people getting hit. In ESO it would result in 18 hits (not necessarily 18 different people).
So aoe damage even with caps will still scale fairly well in ESO, unlike GW2.
You quoted an idiot. All AoEs stack in both games, in GW2 and (updated) ESO all skills will hit similar numbers.
And GW2 has completely uncapped skills by design if they are field control (blocking movement, stun, fear, etc).
Originally posted by Timzilla Unfettered aoe killed warhammer. Aoe doesn't belong in a pvp game, but is ok as long as it doesn't exceed nuisance levels.
Yea...
AoE bad...it doesn't belong in a game like ESO that's specifically trying to copy DAOC....which had tons of AOE, and 12 years with no trouble and no AoE Caps
Probably because most of the people now who have trouble with AoE came from GW2 and lack the basic skills to move left or right when taking damage.
Comments
This x1000.
Many of you either A: Do not PvP very much, or B: Use the aoes yourselves.
I have been in zergs of 50+ people, and all it takes is 1 VR10 AOE-er to jump randomly amongst the zerg and spam the AOE 2-3 times to kill most of the people.
(Waits for the "Don't PvP as a low level then") Actually i will do whatever the eff I want, PvP is open at 10+ for a reason, so people can play it. And that is why I play it, because I pay my dues for the game, and I can play how I like.
Having 1 person (M i k o - cough cough) who has multiple users sharing 1 account to stay at the top of the leaderboards (or 1 dude with seriously no life what so ever), killing a whole attacking army with a couple AOEs is ridiculous.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Stop staking. You nerf the AoE then, not how all AoEs work alltogether.
OK. Went ahead and added a note to the beginning of my OP for some of our more special snowflakes.
The issue is NOT that AOEs are being nerfed. Some of them do need it. The issue is the method in which they are doing it.
Guys, look at this:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/728641/#Comment_728641
To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.
Maybe it's not the apocalypse starting as we thought.
As a VR4 Sorcerer who benefits from several of these to-be-nerfed AOE abilities, all I can really say is that it was fun while it lasted. But c'mon, get serious... some of it was ridiculously OPd.
Here's a group of 3 including a Vamp using his bat swarm ultimate, taking down a large group at an objective flag:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtN-rB0OQVU
Rationalize all you want about "skill" and "teamspeak" etc., but it's not like they're eliminating this, just toning it down... maybe in the future it'll take 6... or 2 vamps
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Your title :
Incoming AoE caps and why they're terrible (PTS)
The definition of back-peddling, do yourself a favor and delete this thread. It would be the right thing to do as your point seems to waver on a whim.
I vote we ignore him, he didn't contribute to the thread the slightest and still doesn't understand how tactics work in pvp. For me, he's the definition of flame-bait.
Still failing horribly at reading comprehension it seems. Did I say "nerf" in my title? No. Did I say "caps" (which is the "method" of nerfing which is being discussed) in my title? Yes. Is that what the thread is about, and what I have been saying throughout the whole thing? Yes.
You seem to for some odd reason be incapable of reading more than a sentence at a time and clearly didn't even read the OP. I have been saying the same thing all along. You should try actually reading things sometime instead of just trolling with zero validity to what you're saying.
Here, I can even try to dumb it down into individual sentences to read between the headaches and nosebleeds for you:
Blanket nerfs to a bunch of skills because of a few considered OP instead of individual skill balancing = bad
Hard caps on all AoEs just to avoid a few being OP, resulting in a huge advantage being given to having the bigger force = bad
Looking into the specifics of each skill and adjusting things like their power, resource cost, radius, adding diminishing returns, etc = good
Giving even more of an advantage to zergs, who already have the advantage of numbers and sheer firepower = bad
Reading the details of he discussion before replying rather than getting a shit attitude because you lack the ability to grasp the words that right in your face = good
You = bad
Simple enough yet?
That video shows that the AOEs do indeed need to be tuned down. I bet it was a pretty cool feeling to be one of those 3 guys that smoked that whole raid and then some. However, 3 guys should not be able to do that, that quickly. I'm not saying that not one of their enemies should have died there, but not fkn all of them that quickly. Serious design flaw there though it's good to see they are adjusting it.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Maybe wait until after you try the change. Then start an uproar.
Indeed, you know I've seen this same type of behavior (the OP) in WoW when they adjusted the AoE for the exact same reasons. The outcry was horrible, it went on for months, and you know what? IT HELPED THE GAME. This guy is just upset his ZOMG PWNYOU I'M BADASS days are over. And I've read your mumbo jumbo about strategy and you know what I think? You're simply a liar. I don't like ESO for many reasons but when they make a smart move I will acknowledge it and say as much.
Wow, Zenimax is learning! It took quite a while but blackness turned to miniscule light dot. First baby steps!
Maybe in a year it will be good AvA lol, its looooooooooooong way to go
/facepalm
Again with the not reading, or understanding what you're reading.
I am a Nightblade bow user who is built purely for single target damage. I do not even have a single AoE on my hotbars, unless I am doing some AoE farming in PvE. This change would only benefit me personally as others who DO use AoEs will become less effective. That does not make it a good change for the game overall though.
As I have explained, repeatedly, this is not an issue of changes not being needed to AoEs. I agree some of them do need changes. But limiting the number of targets, and making AoEs just randomly pick 6 targets out of a whole group, is not the way to do it. Are you really too slow to grasp that concept? It certainly seems so.
@jonesing22: There is no need to wait when people have already seen the bad results of similar systems in other games along with having the common sense to understand the impact that it has. Once it goes live, it's too late. Sure, they may change it back eventually, but by then the pop will have died because of people not liking such changes.
Just look at the poll thread on the official forums: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1
Over 90% of the nearly 2000 people who have voted so far are against it, and a very large number of posts in that thread contain players who have barely been holding on to the game to begin with while waiting for improvements, and will be leaving if this change goes through, just like they did in other games where this happened.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/729932/#Comment_729932
"We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday. That said, this only impacts a handful of area-of-effect abilities that did not already have a cap. Almost every area-of-effect ability in ESO already has a cap on the live server. This is not a sweeping change to all area-of-effect abilities."
I think it was a case of bad wording on the patch notes. Plus the concept of "zerg stacking" on this game really scares me and a lot of people.
There were like 3 ultimates and multiple synergy activations going on in that tightly packed group. If anything, the 4-5 players caught that group off guard and dropped enough AoE/Ultimates/CC to wipe them out because the zerg was stupid.
That and the VR dudes.
I'd much rather they reduce the damage of an AoE depending upon how many targets are being hit so things like AoE Roots will hit and affect all targets in range rather than cap the number of targets it hits.
This is the fault of:
"LF AOE Grind Groups"
I used an AoE skill to keep my tank alive against large groups now I'm ruined. There go the boosters ruining games again. Good job pricks.
All jokes aside, WTF else are we supposed to do when you try to pull 1 mob in a dungeon and the entire thing comes crashing down on your party? This is dumb.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We've already seen it in Guild Wars 2. There's nothing wrong with making an educated guess based on past experience.
GW2 has no caps on the control fields, only damage/healing is capped. ESO won't even have that much.
Copied from a poster on the official forums, not sure if he is right but maybe this explains a bit more.
I think the premise of the post is wrong. Most people have a bad reaction when they hear aoe cap, because of GW2. What most people do not know, is that it was really a combination of aoe cap plus how aoe worked, that made it bad.
In GW2 aoe was almost all ground based, and did not stack. In this game (ESO) most ground based aoe does stack, and lots of aoe is not ground based at all.
What this means is that in GW2 if a zerg all stacked on a dime, only one aoe could hit them at a time. So 3 people attacking a zerg stack in GW2 with aoe would result in 6 people getting hit. In ESO it would result in 18 hits (not necessarily 18 different people).
So aoe damage even with caps will still scale fairly well in ESO, unlike GW2.
You do realize you just copied a bunch of nonsense?
You quoted an idiot. All AoEs stack in both games, in GW2 and (updated) ESO all skills will hit similar numbers.
And GW2 has completely uncapped skills by design if they are field control (blocking movement, stun, fear, etc).
Yea...
AoE bad...it doesn't belong in a game like ESO that's specifically trying to copy DAOC....which had tons of AOE, and 12 years with no trouble and no AoE Caps
Probably because most of the people now who have trouble with AoE came from GW2 and lack the basic skills to move left or right when taking damage.