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How do you feel about this public everything?
Celusios
Member UncommonPosts: 337
How are you guys feeling about this public everything? For those of you who don't know what I mean, I'm talking about how in ESO every single quest dungeon and etc (with the exception of main quests) is public.
I personally despise this system because I cannot remember how many times now I have gone into a dungeon looking to clear out some mobs only to find them dead. Not only that but then you go to kill the boss and there is 6-10 others there waiting as well which gives you a really dumbed down experience. I mean, so many times now I have entered a boss fight only to get one hit in because a group of others are already attacking.
Outside of dungeons I get a really crowded experience. I mean soooo many of the mob areas (often times that require you to kill) are so heavily camped by people trying to power level.
TL;DR - This megaserver is a huge fail in my opinion.
Comments
I kind of agree with you.
this was something I mentioned in my feedback in beta. I love public dungeons but having specific quests tied to bosses in dungeons has proven "not fun". I've gotten most of my quest objectives done by just "showing up" and having some one else do the dirty work. Or in the cases where I need to attack the boss I might "tap it" and that's it.
I think public dungeons work better in grind games. At least my experience.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't think you're quite understanding that public dungeons isn't the problem. The actual DESIGN of the public dungeons is where it fails to live up to expectations.
Firstly, dungeons are overcrowded due to how small they are. Most of them are copy/paste dungeons, at least from what I've experienced so far, and they just don't consist of a whole lot. I have yet to experience a public dungeon with more than one map area, or more than one level, or consist of more than a few hallways and rooms. If these dungeons had more area and scope to them, you wouldn't see so many people all of the time. DAoC did them very well. They had several layers. Some of them had very complex tunnels and large separate wings to them. Some areas were too difficult to get through alone. ESO dungeons are simple, solo'able and lack any sort of creativity whatsoever.
Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature. These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots. This is what you are experiencing. Bots are camping the bosses because the loot is extremely high, given the bosses quick spawn rate and ease of difficulty. ZOS is fixing this by adding a feature that should stop farmers from being able to receive gear and experience from these bosses within a given time frame. It's a simple fix, though, it seems that they didn't have the foresight to recognize the potential issue from the start. Once this is fixed, this issue should be resolved. Then you'll be complaining at the difficulty of the bosses.
Outside of dungeons, it is meant to be crowded. The whole idea of a megaserver is to make sure the players never feel alone. ZOS effectively eliminates server population imbalances, as well as helps prevent ghost towns. People playing MMO's do not want to feel like no one else is playing with them. So, perhaps you didn't quite think this complaint through. Would you rather have no one else playing with you? Seems as if you'd prefer to play Skyrim. I believe that game has already been released.
The megaserver fails in other areas though. Instancing and phasing that affects group play is the most obvious. Megaservers also hurt community building. I also prefer persistent PvP and seamless worlds, which ESO does not provide, and it's largely design choices affected directly by the choice of using megaserver technology. That is another discussing though.
No, they work when designed properly. The type of game doesn't matter.
I like it.
I think its more of the public dungeons being stupid tiny that the cause of the problem not the fact that they are public.
i think the smart way to have done it would have been much bigger dungeons with the boss room being a separate instanced area with a person cap. would allow for more interesting mob AI as well.
Megaserver is good for one thing : avoiding bad publicity of having to merge servers when the population runs low.
Due to the megaserver we:
_lost normal pvp servers
_desynch from group members in phasing
_lost the sense of community as there are always different people phasing in with you, no sense of server rivalry either as its just one big soup of PVE.
_have other players around us everywhere. This can be good and bad. Good because they might jump in to help you with a quest, bad because they steal every chest and resource node from you. Funny thing is, nobody talks to each other. We just pop in, help with a quest or steal a chest/resource and pop out.
ESO is the kind of game that frustrates me because of how good it could be, specially since it runs soo smoothly and looks so good, but due to bad design choices the game simply sucks at the moment. Only a blind man or a quest addict cannot see the whole picture of what's wrong with ESO right now.
I agree with this. After having played GW2 for a while, I forgot what absolute d-bags people can be to each other when they have the option.
As to the other problems, I think they won't be as bad once the leveling run is over and the game is in its "mature" phase. But I know that doesn't help us right now, and a lot of people won't be around later for various reasons, I think, especially when they realize what VR leveling has in store for them.
I like the way you justified your opinion with an in depth and appropriate response.
Timing has nothign to do with it.
Secondly, the boss design is the problem, not the public nature. These bosses do not have timers for loot, as it would prevent farming by bots. This is what you are experiencing.
Bots are only a small part of the problme. My issue is more with players.
If you kill a boss and we have to wait for a spawn time on the boss or looting, that isn't going to do anyting for "me" who shows up "just" as the boss is downed but I'm in the vicinity and I get credit.
If I "just" arrive and the boss is downed then that's not fun. If I wait and the boss spawns and all the players in the area burn it down in two seconds or less then that's not fun. Believe it or not players are actually camping these bosses just to get the kill, most of my experience has to do with players.
You seem to be looking at this solely through the lens of "bots bots bots" and that's a very narrow view of the situation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I do not Think hes talking about the small dungeons market with a torch on the map, hes talking about the quest and quest objectives in most of the quests. In general in these dungeons you mention you mostly don't even have a quest, you just run in kill the boss and you are finished.
And again..Outside dungeons or quests is not either really what he is complaing about.
the complaint is aimed towards how the "quests" are told to you, for example "let's enter the dwemer ruins that has not been entered in ages or someones Dream that has to be entered in by very special means, and yet you see 10 other players doing the same thing as you and kills the boss for you etc etc,
If Zenimax really thought this true , atleast they should boost the enemies so they last longer based on how many players there are, right now it.s the same solo boss regardless of number of players.
It's been hit or miss for me. I have had the bad ones with a lot of other players and multiple bots on the boss. I haven't had an issue with killing the boss. I always get a swing off and get credit, but I would like it to be a challenge.
But then the last two I did weren't that bad. I went in and waited till the first mobs popped back up. Then went through with only one other player. In two different dungeons. There weren't any bots in both of them for me last night. It felt more like it should. Just myself and one other player. Then another joined at the boss, but I have no issues with getting help. Just the bots or multiple players that make it too easy.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I agree with you.
Quests don't "feel right" when you are hiding behind some crates to spy on someone and 3 other people are actually "on top of you" doing the same thing.
Quests don't feel right when you are sneaking into a house to steal something back and 10 other people are doing the same thing.
And as I've said, they don't feel right when I arrive just as a boss goes down and I get credit. Then I wait around until the respawn so I can actually "do" something and not feel like a "schlub".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think the instancing has its head on backwards.
The main story solo quests that kill players many times over should be shareable so we can hop in and help if a friend needs help.
On the other hand, the 3-mob public dungeons should be instanced. The 5-mob ones that scale can stay public and scale with number of players inside. I don't see why they made easy, soloable dungeons public, but enforce strict solo on killer content that gates story progression.
It would make more sense to do it the other way around. Make public dungeons killer, make story easier. Make public dungeons not-so-public, make story less solo enforced.
Based on your response, it would still be a design issue and not the fact that it's public when it comes to bosses. I don't really want everything to be instanced, that would make it feel more like a single player game than it already is.
Good responses guys. As usual on this site you get some of the most split sidings. I'm shocked to see how many of you aren't annoyed or bothered by the "public" aspect. I see so many (including myself) complaining in game that I thought for sure we'd all be on the same side.
I do have to agree with the person who said that main stories should also be public then. For whatever bright reason ESO made it so the public solo dungeons are snorefest easy yet are the public instances... then you have the main quests which some of them feel as though they're made for several people.
maybe go play a single player rpg... last time i checked MMO was massively multiplayer... as in meant to be played with other people.
Edit - just to iterate i'm glad that ZOS is pushing social interaction in this game, regardless of if it was being trivialized by bots, which ZOS took steps towards fixing, aswel as putting a loot timer on public dungeon bosses and i havent seen them getting farmed in a long time now.
this thread is however where MMORPGS have gone wrong, you dont want an MMORPG you want a single player online rpg, i actually like social ineraction in a game thats meant to be played with many people and have social aspects too it, i'm actually liking ZOS's design in this regard and i hope they do some fine tuning to it all, but i'm glad you need to group with others n such to complete things, especially later on in veteran zones.
I don't mind the public thing but what I don't care for, same as the OP, is that too often you find yourself walking into a room to have your quest updated by the guy who just killed that mob before you got there and is now on his way out.
Speaking of Everquest, and other games where public areas worked, those games had MUCH tougher fights to go through in order to get where you were trying to go and MUCH faster respawn rates to keep too many people from getting the free ride from the previous groups kill.
Another thing that these games had that ESO doesn't was the requirement that a player at least lay a hit or a heal on someone fighting the mob in order to get credit for the kill. ESO updates your stuff just because you are standing there and have the quest, and that can often be super anti-climactic.
I think that if ESO adopted some of these other designs moving forward the megaserver would not only not be a bad thing anymore but would probably turn out to be a blessing.
It's just a situation of having two different things that don't go together. You don't need a megaserver is your quest objective is only 3 kills away with a long respawn and you don't need to make your quests so easy to complete when you have so many people that could, and are wiling, to band together in order to get you to your objective.
Sometimes though, when I am alone and there's no one else around, I can see why they might have thought that the current setup was appropriate. It really isn't though and could use some adjusting in my opinion.
These types of responses are the ones I have a problem with. They're not constructive and force off opinions of subjects as self proclaimed facts. A lot of people these days have trouble with the term "MMO". In this very moment you have taken the term and portrayed it as something that requires everything be alongside others.
You do understand all that MMO classifies is that the game is a massive multiplayer online game. In that VERY term any game that has massive amounts of players playing is a MMO. What we have on ESO is a cluster of those players... that is nothing to take joy in. Having different servers would of made this game MUCH better. Or at least the ability to switch instances from less crowded ones.
I Think there needs to be some sorting out the terms of dungeons and quests in ESO atleast in the regards to this thread.
1.OPEN LAND AND QUEST SERIES, can include houses, Caves , dungeons, small villages and even the big cities..These are the quests that can get RUINED by having a bunch of other players there at the same time.
However, sometimes it makes sence to have others around, like in a big rebellion in city , or helping an army etc. But many times it does not, that is the times when the quest specifically dictates it.
2 MINI DUNGEONS often found by exploring the land and is market by a TORCH on the map , small sidequests can lead to these or be found inside of them, they are the ones beiing riddled with bots(not so much lately) and the static spawned boss Always camped with 3-4 guys.
These places are rather silly and easy, since they are littered with players and feel copy pasted..Zenimax should really alter them or redesign them all together.
3 PUBLIC DUNGEON, this is where it gets confusing, each land has ONE sk public dungeon, these are TOUGHER and BIGGER.
One such dungeon is Obsidian Scar in Rivenspire or Bad man's Hollow in Glennumbra, It also has a multi part quest inside . These are good PUBLIC dungeons.
The bad thing is that these dungeons are marked with a TORCH aswell and can be easily mistaken for nr 2.
4. THE GROUP DUNGEONS, The Crypt of Hearts , Volenfell, Wayrest Sewers etc is INSTANCED and require a Group of players , usually 4 when played in the appropriate level.
PART FROM POINT 4 ..You will be able to see other players in all other cases, but they are NOT public since they mostly require you to be in a certain part of a phase, and if you meet someone during these quests, they are in the same part of a quest as you are. once you completed the questline you will no longer be able to see the other players still inside.
When you finally has made all the quests in a zone and determined the outcome for the area you are in, this zone will still not be completly public since there are lots of players that has not yet done Everything in the zone , yet you will see them in cities but maybe not in some areas since it looks diffrent etc,, ea a player has phased out from you.
i don't get it why are ppl still defending this game? it is kinda obvious that if has failed because of many things, just read the forums players that play the game and exp problems with it. There won;t be a change now, in the coming months maybe as they already said that in there " to do list" will be implemented in the coming months and next year.
I already left the game and for those that stay, GL and keep paying sub for this. U guys just deserve it to play such a great designed game.
Yeah you would be glad to have a few people around places like Obsidian Scar. The mobs spawn in packs up to 7 and are quite close together so you can end up pulling 2 packs. I tried that dungeon solo and died within reach of the skyshard and halfway through the quests but was fun.
The instanced dungeons have plenty of bosses, some side bosses that can be ignored, some storyline and are reasonably difficult at times. You get 3 available every few levels
The other public dungeons people refer to are just small areas to explore for some extra xp and maybe a skyshard. They're not even dungeons, its just the same as an indoor cave in Skyrim! You could handle one of these solo and its no different from people camping a small world boss. Unless you're lucky enough to be in there alone theres not much point sticking around after you complete it.