Originally posted by Kyarra All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.
Except that the game mechanics revolve around having both on one server ...
Which is why I think it would be great if just one game could copy SWG and have the TEF system, when I feel like pvp I turn my flag on (and healers get flagged if they help), when I feel like taking in the scenery let me have it off. That would please everyone, even if they don't have different server types
owPvPers generally dont like that. They dont like seeing someone they cant kill.
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that...
Imagine wandering across a vast, virtual terrain--enjoying the sights and sounds as you venture over hills and through forests--yet simultaneously fearing unexpected interaction with others at every turn. It's just a totally different experience when you play a game with an active, heightened sense of awareness as opposed to passively pressing buttons and watching otherwise meaningless stuff happen. One can argue that it's about immersion too, as much as it is about the adrenaline rush. It's not your character that gets ganked, it's you.
What the OP experienced was a thrill in his eyes, not a waste of time as others might surmise. But you're right, if he's found himself a pastime that can give him that rush then all the more power to him.
I've gotten that from PvE games too. When PvE encounters are hard enough, you tread carefully. Some single-player RPG's still offer this, whereas very few MMO games do. It's probably why dungeon crawling and raiding are what PvE players rush towards. It's the same kind of rush.
QFT. I used to experience this in FFXI where some quests send you into zones where mobs smell you rather than see you and let me tell you it was an adrenaline rush knowing you could die if you took a wrong turn. Since the game was all about grouping, even a max level character wasn't safe to mindlessly wonder.
EQ was the same way. nothing like running through a zone praying your invis didnt drop
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?
Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.
No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.
But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.
Your biased statement here doesnt mesh with the rest of your post.
You are right that both sides have their fair share of asshats. I see it more age than anything. games with older audiences, such as EQ/EQ2 or DAoC tend to have overall better communities. there are old asshats too, but the bulk of asshattery is coming from your 20-35ish generation. the generation that grew as the internet grew and anonymous dickishness flourished. of course that happens to be the bulk of the MMO population which is why we are often surrounded with asshats.
Thta said, im sure if there was a study done it would show that people that favor owPvP are more likely to be the type of person that thrives on causing others misery. In other words, an open world PvPer is more likely to be a sociopath than a 'carebear'. but there are definitely 'carebear' sociopaths and most PvPers are good people.
[mod edit]
Griefing a players, aka, ruining their experience on purpose and enjoying it, can be done in different game modes.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
After reading some of te responses you'd think the game didn't have entire continents dedicated to those people who don't want pvp.
It also looks like a lot of those people also missed a point the OP brings up. AA offers actual risk vs reward.
It's also not full loot. You lose the trade pack in the pvp continent; not all of your gear.
It's obvious you know nothing of the game. Before posting drivel you really should get the facts. Safe zones are a misnomer, you can be ganked pretty much anywhere except one island because even your own faction members can attack you. Currently in Alpha I have yet to go into a 30+ zone where 90% of the people I see from my faction are flagged to gank.
Currently AA has a Justice system that is supposed to make ganking your own faction less desireable but the way the penalties work it has no deterrence at all. I'm ok with allowing outlaws but if you are going to implement a Justice system, at least make it actually do something besides being a joke. I see the same people 20-30 times a day in court and yet as soon as they are done they are back out there ganking their own faction.
This is all true, in 30+ zones you're flagged, the only caveat is to look for pvp activity on your map marked by highlighted circles. This only means heavy activity which still means you can get attacked anywhere.
The justice system is kind of a joke put in place for entertainment (your trial takes place on open chat) There are really minimal consequences. think about it, the game devs are not going give out harsh time-outs to their paying customers. Also you can bust out of prison.
Originally posted by Kyarra All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.
Except that the game mechanics revolve around having both on one server ...
Which is why I think it would be great if just one game could copy SWG and have the TEF system, when I feel like pvp I turn my flag on (and healers get flagged if they help), when I feel like taking in the scenery let me have it off. That would please everyone, even if they don't have different server types
Become invulnerable on a press of a button. It's like a defining themepark feature cattering to a full blown PvE player.
There needs to be system with much more depth than that if you really want to consider PvP players in the same game.
Originally posted by Kyarra All they need to do to make everyone happy is to have different server types.
Except that the game mechanics revolve around having both on one server ...
Which is why I think it would be great if just one game could copy SWG and have the TEF system, when I feel like pvp I turn my flag on (and healers get flagged if they help), when I feel like taking in the scenery let me have it off. That would please everyone, even if they don't have different server types
Become invulnerable on a press of a button. It's like a defining themepark feature cattering to a full blown PvE player.
There needs to be system with much more depth than that if you really want to consider PvP players in the same game.
Except in SWG, if you wanted to unflag pvp, it took a few minutes (I think 5 min) before it would take affect. So you were not out of harms way for awhile.
This is all true, in 30+ zones you're flagged, the only caveat is to look for pvp activity on your map marked by highlighted circles. This only means heavy activity which still means you can get attacked anywhere.
The justice system is kind of a joke put in place for entertainment (your trial takes place on open chat) There are really minimal consequences. think about it, the game devs are not going give out harsh time-outs to their paying customers. Also you can bust out of prison.
I don't think getting banned on a regular basis, from your favourite game, when you have most fun time, from a few minutes up to an hour or even more, is very light punishment.
I've gotten that from PvE games too. When PvE encounters are hard enough, you tread carefully. Some single-player RPG's still offer this, whereas very few MMO games do. It's probably why dungeon crawling and raiding are what PvE players rush towards. It's the same kind of rush.
QFT. I used to experience this in FFXI where some quests send you into zones where mobs smell you rather than see you and let me tell you it was an adrenaline rush knowing you could die if you took a wrong turn. Since the game was all about grouping, even a max level character wasn't safe to mindlessly wonder.
EQ was the same way. nothing like running through a zone praying your invis didnt drop
Yeah they don't make em like they used to. As for on topic discussion, gotta love when the derogatory "carebear" label comes out just because you don't enjoy that aspect of a game. To the gankers and PKr's that love to throw around that title I will think of you all as Joffreys, because that is who I picture when I read your responses.
No doubt crafting is fun, it's not going stay fun when you have 12+ hours invested plus materials and labor only to have it ripped off from gankers. I could fail stealing and die for half that time and still have a good days worth of product just killing. I'm just saying gamers always take the easy way out.
What? You can't loose items you craft unless you willingly sell/trade/destroy them.
And just in case you missuse terms, your farm grows alone. You plant stuff, you water/feed it and than come back to harvest rewards later after some time. 12+ hours invested for one lost trade pack? Could you exagerate more?
I don't understand your point at all, yes it takes time to plant 12hr's (ex for beans) plus seeds plus labor points to dig up. Livestock the same, time for them to mature, so yeah imagine how much time invested.
So all this can be stolen during transport. Each bank is separate from one another so it's either on your back or hire an npc. Hell, if you're not guarding your farm I'll rip off whatever"s ripe for the picking.
I planted the corn and chicken quest, imo the timers dumb. Log off come back late your chicks diseased your crop is rotten. How is all this an exaggeration?
Edit, IMO the only thing of any value in an mmo is your character name, that is if it can't be changed even then it costs rl $. So a better punishment is at trial for your wrong doings your toon is marked for all to see. Maybe wanted signs posted with the others, rewards for killing them. After some time of good behavior your name is removed.
Originally posted by stromp45 Theres runs thats safe and you get a little reward but to get the big ones thats where you can loss alot more than your chars life maybe sink your ship and loss all your trade packs and on the trade ships you might have 15 to 20 packs which is alot of work and worth alot in reward. Yes its a time sink but its so much fun.
That is fair, the reward should be proportion to the risk... The only problem really is if ganking takes a lot less work or risk because that would lead to 100 gankers waiting for every player making the run.
It is kinda my problem with full loot PvP, waiting 10 people to jump a single player is close to zero risk and the reward should be in proportion to the risk.
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?
Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.
No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.
But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.
Your biased statement here doesnt mesh with the rest of your post.
You are right that both sides have their fair share of asshats. I see it more age than anything. games with older audiences, such as EQ/EQ2 or DAoC tend to have overall better communities. there are old asshats too, but the bulk of asshattery is coming from your 20-35ish generation. the generation that grew as the internet grew and anonymous dickishness flourished. of course that happens to be the bulk of the MMO population which is why we are often surrounded with asshats.
Thta said, im sure if there was a study done it would show that people that favor owPvP are more likely to be the type of person that thrives on causing others misery. In other words, an open world PvPer is more likely to be a sociopath than a 'carebear'. but there are definitely 'carebear' sociopaths and most PvPers are good people.
The stupid comments keep coming, don't they?
Griefing a players, aka, ruining their experience on purpose and enjoying it, can be done in different game modes.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
You said it yourself-its easier to grief in owPvP. So thats where a lot of griefers prefer to go. Hence the more likely part. Its much more difficult to grief someone in a PvE manner, particularly in modern games. Its mostly not worth their time. Some still try to grief, but most will just troll general chat or move on to a different game.
So you called me stupid, but then backed up my point.
This is all true, in 30+ zones you're flagged, the only caveat is to look for pvp activity on your map marked by highlighted circles. This only means heavy activity which still means you can get attacked anywhere.
The justice system is kind of a joke put in place for entertainment (your trial takes place on open chat) There are really minimal consequences. think about it, the game devs are not going give out harsh time-outs to their paying customers. Also you can bust out of prison.
I don't think getting banned on a regular basis, from your favourite game, when you have most fun time, from a few minutes up to an hour or even more, is very light punishment.
Man you just don't get it, haven't played or is just as honest as it gets irl. But what most are going to figure out is why the hell would i farm all damn day when even if I get caught multiple times stealing I'll still come out ahead an hours work max.
Your not banned basically a time-out, I don't totally get the escape part. Watching trials all week sentences were only minutes. Don't know what's involved in getting an hours jail time.
Originally posted by cheyane This is so amazing you can have players forming guilds that offer services to guard and run others who need to do trade pack runs. May be betray them and kill them and take their packs or do it honourably and get paid in return. There are so many possibilities that allow for people to group up and there is a reason to group not merely to kill some boss but to face other players and to be safe to earn money.This is quite an amazing opportunity to form relationships and looks like it will be adrenaline pumping. I wish I was not such a scaredy cat though afraid of PvP. I must admit though this sounds really quite fun.
Their around, I belong to an Anti-Pirate guild currently but we're still relatively small and still learning/leveling.
This sort of epiphany does nothing but bring a smile to my face. This type of thing is what many of us have been looking for since the "golden age" of mmo's came to an end. I'm glad people are able to experience this with fresh eyes... games that allow freedom (sandboxes) really are open to endless opportunity. Old UO and Shadowbane will never return but new greats may be on the horizon if this trend catches. It's not pvp vs pve, it's all inclusive player made content developed through community interaction. It is literally world building.
No doubt crafting is fun, it's not going stay fun when you have 12+ hours invested plus materials and labor only to have it ripped off from gankers. I could fail stealing and die for half that time and still have a good days worth of product just killing. I'm just saying gamers always take the easy way out.
What? You can't loose items you craft unless you willingly sell/trade/destroy them.
And just in case you missuse terms, your farm grows alone. You plant stuff, you water/feed it and than come back to harvest rewards later after some time. 12+ hours invested for one lost trade pack? Could you exagerate more?
I don't understand your point at all, yes it takes time to plant 12hr's (ex for beans) plus seeds plus labor points to dig up. Livestock the same, time for them to mature, so yeah imagine how much time invested.
So all this can be stolen during transport. Each bank is separate from one another so it's either on your back or hire an npc. Hell, if you're not guarding your farm I'll rip off whatever"s ripe for the picking.
I planted the corn and chicken quest, imo the timers dumb. Log off come back late your chicks diseased your crop is rotten. How is all this an exaggeration?
Edit, IMO the only thing of any value in an mmo is your character name, that is if it can't be changed even then it costs rl $. So a better punishment is at trial for your wrong doings your toon is marked for all to see. Maybe wanted signs posted with the others, rewards for killing them. After some time of good behavior your name is removed.
scrap that, after some thought the marked name wanted idea holds no weight. With 4 toons to create you could create 1 toon maybe called "jerk" who is your outlaw and just send you stolen goods to your honest law biding toon "holy roller"
Originally posted by stromp45 Theres runs thats safe and you get a little reward but to get the big ones thats where you can loss alot more than your chars life maybe sink your ship and loss all your trade packs and on the trade ships you might have 15 to 20 packs which is alot of work and worth alot in reward. Yes its a time sink but its so much fun.
That is fair, the reward should be proportion to the risk... The only problem really is if ganking takes a lot less work or risk because that would lead to 100 gankers waiting for every player making the run.
It is kinda my problem with full loot PvP, waiting 10 people to jump a single player is close to zero risk and the reward should be in proportion to the risk.
10 + pirates jumping 1 lone player may be very low risk however the reward is neglectable as well. be sure those 10 pirates won't stand there for long if some soloers is all they get.
On the other side, an average solo player trade runner will maybe try to solo first time to research the situation and chances, than depending on result, adapt. If you get jumped by 10 players than you either move elsewhere or come back with 10+ players next time.
Than it's up to pirates to adapt but the more pirates you bring, the lesser the fun, risk and loot.
If being a pirate in OW games with restrictions was easy and so profitable than everyone would be one. Which is not the case in AA. The reality is actually in favour of trade runners. And even if it everyone somehow becomes a pirate, that means zero booty.
In fact situation will always balance in favour of trade runners because game supports group trade running activity, with tools and buffs . The potential of profit will not stop big guilds of doing zerg trade runs. And the big guilds are already a reality in the present time.
But ofc, diehard soloers will -as always- have to accept the limitations that they bring on themselves willingly.
This is so amazing you can have players forming guilds that offer services to guard and run others who need to do trade pack runs. May be betray them and kill them and take their packs or do it honourably and get paid in return. There are so many possibilities that allow for people to group up and there is a reason to group not merely to kill some boss but to face other players and to be safe to earn money.
This is quite an amazing opportunity to form relationships and looks like it will be adrenaline pumping. I wish I was not such a scaredy cat though afraid of PvP. I must admit though this sounds really quite fun.
Their around, I belong to an Anti-Pirate guild currently but we're still relatively small and still learning/leveling.
Wrap a bow around it but basically what your describing is mob protection.
This is so amazing you can have players forming guilds that offer services to guard and run others who need to do trade pack runs. May be betray them and kill them and take their packs or do it honourably and get paid in return. There are so many possibilities that allow for people to group up and there is a reason to group not merely to kill some boss but to face other players and to be safe to earn money.
This is quite an amazing opportunity to form relationships and looks like it will be adrenaline pumping. I wish I was not such a scaredy cat though afraid of PvP. I must admit though this sounds really quite fun.
Their around, I belong to an Anti-Pirate guild currently but we're still relatively small and still learning/leveling.
This sort of epiphany does nothing but bring a smile to my face. This type of thing is what many of us have been looking for since the "golden age" of mmo's came to an end. I'm glad people are able to experience this with fresh eyes... games that allow freedom (sandboxes) really are open to endless opportunity. Old UO and Shadowbane will never return but new greats may be on the horizon if this trend catches. It's not pvp vs pve, it's all inclusive player made content developed through community interaction. It is literally world building.
Yup, its a great thing. And its why SWG was so popular. not only did it have this world building nature, but it did so with PvP being essentially a toggle.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
OWPVP always means FFA gankfest. Please give just one example where it wasn't like that. Or, give an example of "better" game design that won't allow this. If you make a OWPVP game, there will be ganking, no matter what desing you use. "Player factor" won't allow that. Simple: if you give a player the option of ganking another player, he will use it.
And don't call other people comments stupid. What are you, 12 year old?
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?
Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.
No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.
But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.
Your biased statement here doesnt mesh with the rest of your post.
You are right that both sides have their fair share of asshats. I see it more age than anything. games with older audiences, such as EQ/EQ2 or DAoC tend to have overall better communities. there are old asshats too, but the bulk of asshattery is coming from your 20-35ish generation. the generation that grew as the internet grew and anonymous dickishness flourished. of course that happens to be the bulk of the MMO population which is why we are often surrounded with asshats.
Thta said, im sure if there was a study done it would show that people that favor owPvP are more likely to be the type of person that thrives on causing others misery. In other words, an open world PvPer is more likely to be a sociopath than a 'carebear'. but there are definitely 'carebear' sociopaths and most PvPers are good people.
Maybe i didnt use the correct words or sentences. I was trying to say that is doesnt need to be in pvp envoirement to get bad experiences playing with others, and some of my worse experience involving others was in a pve envoirements.
I play mmorpgs special for the immersion of playing with other ppl, im not a pure pvper, 80% of my gameplay is around pve but i do like pvp too special group owpvp with some objective that is more then kill others just for kill. I know this games will allways have ppl where their fun is trying to be the most annoying to others, nothing is perfect in live neither in games. There cons and pros in AA pvp system, for me the pros win the cons, but thats me, those who think diferent are welcome to discuss, no need to jump over ppl and start to label them like real life criminals.
My main language is not english but i did my best to transmit my opinion, hope was enouph.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
OWPVP always means FFA gankfest. Please give just one example where it wasn't like that. Or, give an example of "better" game design that won't allow this. If you make a OWPVP game, there will be ganking, no matter what desing you use. "Player factor" won't allow that. Simple: if you give a player the option of ganking another player, he will use it.
And don't call other people comments stupid. What are you, 12 year old?
I will give you an example - EverQuest, Rallos Zek server, at least back in the day. It was OWPVP with some level range limits. Ganking happened, but not everyone ganked. People who killed others were called PKers and then other folks were the Anti-PKers. You had a reputation and if you ganked people, you would have a hell of a time getting a group outside your PK guild, which often people would go out of their way to kill you if you were in a known PK guild. I had several anti-pk characters and I also tried to make a few PK characters to kill people, but I never enjoyed preying on the weak, so I never really played them.
Ganking, training, etc. really didn't happen all the time. It happened occasionally, but rarely often because people would gang up against others who did that. People to an extent respected each other and enjoyed the addional thrill of watching their back while exploring, exping, camping items.
I am not a PKer, yet I love PvP and especially OWPVP. To be fair, there can be even fights as well. Guilds would battle it out over who would get a camp or bosses, etc. It made the game much more exciting than the PvE servers.
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
You don't understand it or you don't share it? It's very easy to understand: The risk adds excitement and adds more of a sense of accomplishment to the success you do have.
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
They like it because it makes up for how they are treated in RL. Personally, I find it funny since I know how terrible their life is that this is actually a pleasure. Crazy eh?
Is it just me, or are non owpvp'ers throwing around some really, really insulting comments. First i see someone call pvp'ers sociopaths, and now this? And people say pvp'ers are the worse communities. Not that pvp'ers are perfect. Really just check many MOBAs and FPS's.
No, its not only you. My worst community experiences are allways conected to a PvE only games. Some times inside in a instance with a group of ppl its a worse experience then been ganked by a guy 20lvls above me and 100 times more powerfull then me.
But there arent horrible pvers and/or pvpers, just to many horrible gamers around. Doesnt matter if it is pve or pvp or just a fórum discuss, this kind of ppl are everywhere and allways making more noise.
Your biased statement here doesnt mesh with the rest of your post.
You are right that both sides have their fair share of asshats. I see it more age than anything. games with older audiences, such as EQ/EQ2 or DAoC tend to have overall better communities. there are old asshats too, but the bulk of asshattery is coming from your 20-35ish generation. the generation that grew as the internet grew and anonymous dickishness flourished. of course that happens to be the bulk of the MMO population which is why we are often surrounded with asshats.
Thta said, im sure if there was a study done it would show that people that favor owPvP are more likely to be the type of person that thrives on causing others misery. In other words, an open world PvPer is more likely to be a sociopath than a 'carebear'. but there are definitely 'carebear' sociopaths and most PvPers are good people.
The stupid comments keep coming, don't they?
Griefing a players, aka, ruining their experience on purpose and enjoying it, can be done in different game modes.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
You said it yourself-its easier to grief in owPvP. So thats where a lot of griefers prefer to go. Hence the more likely part. Its much more difficult to grief someone in a PvE manner, particularly in modern games. Its mostly not worth their time. Some still try to grief, but most will just troll general chat or move on to a different game.
So you called me stupid, but then backed up my point.
Your comment is stupid because of the generalization, like this other one you made:
"owPvPers generally dont like that. They dont like seeing someone they cant kill."
Griefers will seek the easiest way to troll others. Like i said, when you simply allow players to directly kill each other with no mechanics to either protect them, or so on, obviously they'll take that side. To give you an example:
Game 1 as "owpvp", but in order to pk non flagged/marked/etc (pve) players you take about 1 month of leveling, and then you can only pk 1 player every 2 days. Also, you can only have 1 "non pvp'er pk" character per server. And this is box and sub game. Also, there's a jail system.
Game 2 allows you to train mobs and bosses into cities, plus allows you to summon defeated dungeon bosses anywhere in the world. Everytime you beat a dungeon, you get 1 extra summon. it's also a F2P game making it easy to have alt accounts. No pvp allowed.
Do you honestly think a griefer would chose the pvp game where it would take a massive amount of time just to get the chance to pk every 2 days and still maybe get sent to jail, when they can just mass train/spawn onto players and they can't do anythign about it in game 2?
Why do you think current mmorpgs put aggro radius on mobs? Because even back in WOW, this wasn't all that uncommon. But that's the key difference i was telling you about.
OWPVP, and general large scale pvp, didn't evolve in creating different gameplay options, because every mmorpg cloned WOW, including it's instanced, small scale pvp. So open world pvp never had a change to grow. In a certain way DAOC, from what i know of it, can be seen as a part of that evolution. But even daoc is pre-wow.
Had pvp evolved and expanded in ideas, and pve remained without rules, the reverse of the current situation would probably had happen. And like i said, even today, node stealing is still an issue, but since crafting isn't that important, it isn't that big of a deal. Also, kill stealing.
Many, if not most likely the majority, of players who enjoy owpvp like the sense of danger, but are against mechanics that ruin it for everyone, like corpse camping.
As for general a-holes, they exist in all forms like some hardcore raiding and dungeon crawlers. Obviously, owpvp does make it easier, but your comment that all players who enjoy that game type are worse and enjoy causing misery to others is, well, plain stupid.
Edit: Personally, i don't generalize all pve'ers because of a few bad apples that of some that troll chat, node ninja and bad mouth you in dungeons. Different kinds exist everywhere.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
OWPVP always means FFA gankfest. Please give just one example where it wasn't like that. Or, give an example of "better" game design that won't allow this. If you make a OWPVP game, there will be ganking, no matter what desing you use. "Player factor" won't allow that. Simple: if you give a player the option of ganking another player, he will use it.
And don't call other people comments stupid. What are you, 12 year old?
Oldschool UO. Go play on some private servers. The "norm" is to run into blue players who will not attack you. What exactly are you trying to say? That in an OWPVP game people will SOMETIMES gank you? Yes... they will. That's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with losing your stuff. There's nothing wrong with having villains and enemies and politics in a game. That's not a "FFA gankfest." That's called freedom.
Originally posted by Thodra I do not understand why people enjoy something like that... But glad you are happy....I think
You don't understand it or you don't share it? It's very easy to understand: The risk adds excitement and adds more of a sense of accomplishment to the success you do have.
it comes down to whether you would rather do something challenging and succeed or do something trivial and succeed. I enjoy challenge so I like games with open world pvp and even full loot pvp. Some people can't handle stress as well as others and pvp is stressful to a degree so I would imagine these are the people that don't enjoy the "thrill" of constant threat / awareness. My life kind of mirrors my preference, I work a high stress high pressure job, I ride a sport bike and I grew up playing demanding sports like ice hockey and competitive snowboarding.
I can't blame someone for not enjoying something but I expect those on the opposite end of the spectrum from me to be able to accept and understand that the world doesn't revolve around their needs. There are quite a few pve - only games currently out on the market, AA is somewhat different and it would be nice if it could stay that way. I am not playing AA right now but I would like the option to be able to pick up and play a somewhat open sandbox with somewhat open pvp in the future. Right now a game like that doesn't really exist beside say DFUW which is, sadly, very poorly run.
Comments
owPvPers generally dont like that. They dont like seeing someone they cant kill.
EQ was the same way. nothing like running through a zone praying your invis didnt drop
[mod edit]
Griefing a players, aka, ruining their experience on purpose and enjoying it, can be done in different game modes.
OWPVP doesn't means FFA gankfest. It can, obviously, if the mechanics allow for it to happen. And many pvp'ers, like myself, hate when happens. But owpvp has zero, nada, nothing to do with that. It's a matter of game design.
A PVE mmorpg with extreme focus on materail gathering for everything that allows players to steal each other and forces them to "fight over" resources, even without pvp, would be filled with of players taking everything for themselves.
Mob training and corpse camping is another example. Of course, owpvp is an easier way to acomplish this. But unfortunatly, most mmorpgs with this kind off pvp are this way.
This is all true, in 30+ zones you're flagged, the only caveat is to look for pvp activity on your map marked by highlighted circles. This only means heavy activity which still means you can get attacked anywhere.
The justice system is kind of a joke put in place for entertainment (your trial takes place on open chat) There are really minimal consequences. think about it, the game devs are not going give out harsh time-outs to their paying customers. Also you can bust out of prison.
Become invulnerable on a press of a button. It's like a defining themepark feature cattering to a full blown PvE player.
There needs to be system with much more depth than that if you really want to consider PvP players in the same game.
I don't think getting banned on a regular basis, from your favourite game, when you have most fun time, from a few minutes up to an hour or even more, is very light punishment.
Yeah they don't make em like they used to. As for on topic discussion, gotta love when the derogatory "carebear" label comes out just because you don't enjoy that aspect of a game. To the gankers and PKr's that love to throw around that title I will think of you all as Joffreys, because that is who I picture when I read your responses.
Some of you need an /impslap.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I don't understand your point at all, yes it takes time to plant 12hr's (ex for beans) plus seeds plus labor points to dig up. Livestock the same, time for them to mature, so yeah imagine how much time invested.
So all this can be stolen during transport. Each bank is separate from one another so it's either on your back or hire an npc. Hell, if you're not guarding your farm I'll rip off whatever"s ripe for the picking.
I planted the corn and chicken quest, imo the timers dumb. Log off come back late your chicks diseased your crop is rotten. How is all this an exaggeration?
Edit, IMO the only thing of any value in an mmo is your character name, that is if it can't be changed even then it costs rl $. So a better punishment is at trial for your wrong doings your toon is marked for all to see. Maybe wanted signs posted with the others, rewards for killing them. After some time of good behavior your name is removed.
That is fair, the reward should be proportion to the risk... The only problem really is if ganking takes a lot less work or risk because that would lead to 100 gankers waiting for every player making the run.
It is kinda my problem with full loot PvP, waiting 10 people to jump a single player is close to zero risk and the reward should be in proportion to the risk.
You said it yourself-its easier to grief in owPvP. So thats where a lot of griefers prefer to go. Hence the more likely part. Its much more difficult to grief someone in a PvE manner, particularly in modern games. Its mostly not worth their time. Some still try to grief, but most will just troll general chat or move on to a different game.
So you called me stupid, but then backed up my point.
Man you just don't get it, haven't played or is just as honest as it gets irl. But what most are going to figure out is why the hell would i farm all damn day when even if I get caught multiple times stealing I'll still come out ahead an hours work max.
Your not banned basically a time-out, I don't totally get the escape part. Watching trials all week sentences were only minutes. Don't know what's involved in getting an hours jail time.
Their around, I belong to an Anti-Pirate guild currently but we're still relatively small and still learning/leveling.
This sort of epiphany does nothing but bring a smile to my face. This type of thing is what many of us have been looking for since the "golden age" of mmo's came to an end. I'm glad people are able to experience this with fresh eyes... games that allow freedom (sandboxes) really are open to endless opportunity. Old UO and Shadowbane will never return but new greats may be on the horizon if this trend catches. It's not pvp vs pve, it's all inclusive player made content developed through community interaction. It is literally world building.scrap that, after some thought the marked name wanted idea holds no weight. With 4 toons to create you could create 1 toon maybe called "jerk" who is your outlaw and just send you stolen goods to your honest law biding toon "holy roller"
10 + pirates jumping 1 lone player may be very low risk however the reward is neglectable as well. be sure those 10 pirates won't stand there for long if some soloers is all they get.
On the other side, an average solo player trade runner will maybe try to solo first time to research the situation and chances, than depending on result, adapt. If you get jumped by 10 players than you either move elsewhere or come back with 10+ players next time.
Than it's up to pirates to adapt but the more pirates you bring, the lesser the fun, risk and loot.
If being a pirate in OW games with restrictions was easy and so profitable than everyone would be one. Which is not the case in AA. The reality is actually in favour of trade runners. And even if it everyone somehow becomes a pirate, that means zero booty.
In fact situation will always balance in favour of trade runners because game supports group trade running activity, with tools and buffs . The potential of profit will not stop big guilds of doing zerg trade runs. And the big guilds are already a reality in the present time.
But ofc, diehard soloers will -as always- have to accept the limitations that they bring on themselves willingly.
Wrap a bow around it but basically what your describing is mob protection.
Yup, its a great thing. And its why SWG was so popular. not only did it have this world building nature, but it did so with PvP being essentially a toggle.
OWPVP always means FFA gankfest. Please give just one example where it wasn't like that. Or, give an example of "better" game design that won't allow this. If you make a OWPVP game, there will be ganking, no matter what desing you use. "Player factor" won't allow that. Simple: if you give a player the option of ganking another player, he will use it.
And don't call other people comments stupid. What are you, 12 year old?
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Maybe i didnt use the correct words or sentences. I was trying to say that is doesnt need to be in pvp envoirement to get bad experiences playing with others, and some of my worse experience involving others was in a pve envoirements.
I play mmorpgs special for the immersion of playing with other ppl, im not a pure pvper, 80% of my gameplay is around pve but i do like pvp too special group owpvp with some objective that is more then kill others just for kill. I know this games will allways have ppl where their fun is trying to be the most annoying to others, nothing is perfect in live neither in games. There cons and pros in AA pvp system, for me the pros win the cons, but thats me, those who think diferent are welcome to discuss, no need to jump over ppl and start to label them like real life criminals.
My main language is not english but i did my best to transmit my opinion, hope was enouph.
Risk vs Reward. Thats why people enjoy something like that.
I will give you an example - EverQuest, Rallos Zek server, at least back in the day. It was OWPVP with some level range limits. Ganking happened, but not everyone ganked. People who killed others were called PKers and then other folks were the Anti-PKers. You had a reputation and if you ganked people, you would have a hell of a time getting a group outside your PK guild, which often people would go out of their way to kill you if you were in a known PK guild. I had several anti-pk characters and I also tried to make a few PK characters to kill people, but I never enjoyed preying on the weak, so I never really played them.
Ganking, training, etc. really didn't happen all the time. It happened occasionally, but rarely often because people would gang up against others who did that. People to an extent respected each other and enjoyed the addional thrill of watching their back while exploring, exping, camping items.
I am not a PKer, yet I love PvP and especially OWPVP.
To be fair, there can be even fights as well. Guilds would battle it out over who would get a camp or bosses, etc. It made the game much more exciting than the PvE servers.
You don't understand it or you don't share it? It's very easy to understand: The risk adds excitement and adds more of a sense of accomplishment to the success you do have.
Your comment is stupid because of the generalization, like this other one you made:
"owPvPers generally dont like that. They dont like seeing someone they cant kill."
Griefers will seek the easiest way to troll others. Like i said, when you simply allow players to directly kill each other with no mechanics to either protect them, or so on, obviously they'll take that side. To give you an example:
Game 1 as "owpvp", but in order to pk non flagged/marked/etc (pve) players you take about 1 month of leveling, and then you can only pk 1 player every 2 days. Also, you can only have 1 "non pvp'er pk" character per server. And this is box and sub game. Also, there's a jail system.
Game 2 allows you to train mobs and bosses into cities, plus allows you to summon defeated dungeon bosses anywhere in the world. Everytime you beat a dungeon, you get 1 extra summon. it's also a F2P game making it easy to have alt accounts. No pvp allowed.
Do you honestly think a griefer would chose the pvp game where it would take a massive amount of time just to get the chance to pk every 2 days and still maybe get sent to jail, when they can just mass train/spawn onto players and they can't do anythign about it in game 2?
Why do you think current mmorpgs put aggro radius on mobs? Because even back in WOW, this wasn't all that uncommon. But that's the key difference i was telling you about.
OWPVP, and general large scale pvp, didn't evolve in creating different gameplay options, because every mmorpg cloned WOW, including it's instanced, small scale pvp. So open world pvp never had a change to grow. In a certain way DAOC, from what i know of it, can be seen as a part of that evolution. But even daoc is pre-wow.
Had pvp evolved and expanded in ideas, and pve remained without rules, the reverse of the current situation would probably had happen. And like i said, even today, node stealing is still an issue, but since crafting isn't that important, it isn't that big of a deal. Also, kill stealing.
Many, if not most likely the majority, of players who enjoy owpvp like the sense of danger, but are against mechanics that ruin it for everyone, like corpse camping.
As for general a-holes, they exist in all forms like some hardcore raiding and dungeon crawlers. Obviously, owpvp does make it easier, but your comment that all players who enjoy that game type are worse and enjoy causing misery to others is, well, plain stupid.
Edit: Personally, i don't generalize all pve'ers because of a few bad apples that of some that troll chat, node ninja and bad mouth you in dungeons. Different kinds exist everywhere.
Oldschool UO. Go play on some private servers. The "norm" is to run into blue players who will not attack you. What exactly are you trying to say? That in an OWPVP game people will SOMETIMES gank you? Yes... they will. That's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with losing your stuff. There's nothing wrong with having villains and enemies and politics in a game. That's not a "FFA gankfest." That's called freedom.
You don't understand it or you don't share it? It's very easy to understand: The risk adds excitement and adds more of a sense of accomplishment to the success you do have.
it comes down to whether you would rather do something challenging and succeed or do something trivial and succeed. I enjoy challenge so I like games with open world pvp and even full loot pvp. Some people can't handle stress as well as others and pvp is stressful to a degree so I would imagine these are the people that don't enjoy the "thrill" of constant threat / awareness. My life kind of mirrors my preference, I work a high stress high pressure job, I ride a sport bike and I grew up playing demanding sports like ice hockey and competitive snowboarding.I can't blame someone for not enjoying something but I expect those on the opposite end of the spectrum from me to be able to accept and understand that the world doesn't revolve around their needs. There are quite a few pve - only games currently out on the market, AA is somewhat different and it would be nice if it could stay that way. I am not playing AA right now but I would like the option to be able to pick up and play a somewhat open sandbox with somewhat open pvp in the future. Right now a game like that doesn't really exist beside say DFUW which is, sadly, very poorly run.