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Since when do MMO's charge taxes on Monthly Subs?

13

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  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I cannot recall because I never check but in Europe you pay VAT on the monthly subscription if I am not mistaken.n It is not Zenimax doing it they are just obeying the laws of the place you live in.

    I'm from europe and I never payed a single coin more than it says on the website. If it's 14.95€ (EVE) or 12.99€ (WOW) on the website that's how much I get charged so I guess the taxes are included in the sub price or not at all charged :D

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  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    I don't know about the states. In Europe all subscriptions INCLUDE taxes. However, taxes are included in the amount they are showing to you on the screen. So e.g. ESO website shows £8.99 and I get charged £8.99. This includes taxes. This is the same for all other MMOs.

    If the website showed $15 and didn't inform you they will charge you an extra $1 in taxes, then you can sue them for fraud. They have to tell you exactly how much they are charging you, otherwise it is fraud.

    Why do people say that MMOs don't charge VAT in the EU. That is wrong. You pay VAT on MMO subs. It's just included in the sub.They won't tell you to pay £8.99 including VAT but I am pretty sure that Blizzard emailed me to inform me abouth the change in VAT in the UK and how that will affect my subscription.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • PyxxPyxx Member Posts: 22
    Originally posted by Foobarx

    1.  If you have an issue with the charge, contact the company in question;

    2.  If the issue isn't resolved to your satisfaction, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge;

    3.  If the charge is legal, you can cancel your account and likely get a one time refund; if the charge is illegal, the credit card company will reverse the charge for you.

     

    All of the above will resolve your issue, posting here will not.

    Am Already working on that solution but thanks for your advice. I just thought letting the community know about this problem would further help raise awareness about how some Video Game companies can and will screw you over through their moronic mistakes. 

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Korent:

    12.99€ is the price with the vat included. If you're talking about the recurring monthly sub that is. How do I know?

    Everytime I sub(or rather try) to swtor, the amount needed to pay jumps from 10,5€ to 13€. Explain this without adding in the vat.

    The thing is, some companies list the Universal prices(hell some even on checkout don't write the real price-vat + listed price) and some write the modified. It's up to company's discretion what to do. But what all of them should(hell, even must!) do, is inform you of charging taxes(otherwise you could sue them for either fraud or embezzlement).

    Then that's it, it's included in subs for us. Now that I think about it, we always, initially, pay more for games in EU because VAT is mostly included in our prices (I remember the last game which triggered debate on forum was GW2 prices).

     

    but to the OP, it seems the taxes are always in game subs. I guess it's a bit douchebaggy of them that they didn't list the total price which you'll be charged.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • Covet78Covet78 Member UncommonPosts: 149
    Originally posted by Pyxx
    [mod edit]

    Well 1st of all; I know you don't know this, but I'm going to inform you anyways since you're the type of person who likes to Flame on someone. I'm a Disabled Veteran. I've served my time in the Army and I have gone to 2 Wars, I am, no longer able to do much of anything else. I am Wheelchair bound and blind in my left eye and I am unable to function like most human beings thanks to my efforts in the Wars. Now that that's out of the way. 

     

    Yes I will complain about $1.08 because I live in Ohio. Not a state that has an Physical Office as someone else puts it. I don't get charged from Blizzard or NC Soft. So why should I be charged from anyone else?  They have State Taxes but not on Food. 

    [mod edit]

    Your second paragraph - Don't write here about it, write Zenimax. They will have your answer. People here most likely will not be able to help you. It could just be a fluke, a scam, or there is now taxes you have to pay on this sub by law.

     

  • PyxxPyxx Member Posts: 22
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Scot
    Nothing is certain but character death and taxes.

    Well played sir, well played.

    I got a great chuckle out of that one too.

    Originally posted by Arthasm

    No tax charging here in EU for Blizzard subsribers. But, some states in US have tax charge on subscription.

    https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/tax-information

    OP state is on the list.

    The OP said they live in Ohio and that state is on the list that Blizzard says can tax their transactions. Taxing online transactions is fairly new in most if not all states.

    Man I'm glad I live in Oregon. Income tax bites me a lot less than sales tax. I lived in Washington state for several years after I got out of the navy. That state has a crazy sales tax.

    I don't mind paying my taxes though. I use state and federal services and infrastructure. I'm a veteran and have served my country. I consider taxes as part of my civic responsibility.

    I understand your point but here's the thing; I have Subscriptions with Blizzard; Bioware, and Zenimax. Blizzard does not charge me any taxes what-so-ever. I pay my normal sub of $14.99 per month or 77.86 per 6 months for Bioware. Niether one of those charge Taxes. EA / Bioware on the other hand will charge Taxes on Cartel Coins being purchased through their Website. But that's normal. Same goes for Blizzard; They will charge taxes on anything bought through their store even is it's Virtual Goods. This is where Taxes are normal and should apply. 

     

    However This issue I am having is not a case of Taxes. It is a case of a Moronic Mistake in Charging my PaytPal account with a EU email address that Prompted my Bank to add on an International Fee Charge for the payment of $14.99. Making it a total of $16.08. No where in my PayPal does it state any additional Charge. Only a charge of $16.08 and the Email Address to which the payment was going to was PayPalEU@zenimaxonline.com Which is what prompted my Bank to charge the International Fee. I do NOT have any account on an EU server. I only play on the NA servers. My account was set up as a NA account. I live and bank through NA. So the Problem is Zenimax making a mistake. Not mine. So I'm just fighting with them and waiting on a Return Call from their Billing and Account Services. Meanwhile I am Disputing the Overcharge of the $1.08 difference in which shouldn't have ever taken in the 1st place 

  • LeGrosGamerLeGrosGamer Member UncommonPosts: 223
    The funny thing in all this, is that not only do they release a half finished game with a sub fee, but they are charging tax on the bloody thing.  LOL that made my morning right there.  So glad I haven't wasted 60$ on this sorry excuse of a MMO.
  • PyxxPyxx Member Posts: 22
    Originally posted by Covet78
    Originally posted by Pyxx
    [mod edit]

    Well 1st of all; I know you don't know this, but I'm going to inform you anyways since you're the type of person who likes to Flame on someone. I'm a Disabled Veteran. I've served my time in the Army and I have gone to 2 Wars, I am, no longer able to do much of anything else. I am Wheelchair bound and blind in my left eye and I am unable to function like most human beings thanks to my efforts in the Wars. Now that that's out of the way. 

     

    Yes I will complain about $1.08 because I live in Ohio. Not a state that has an Physical Office as someone else puts it. I don't get charged from Blizzard or NC Soft. So why should I be charged from anyone else?  They have State Taxes but not on Food. 

    your first paragraph - not needed. No extra sympathy rewarded. An honorable vet wouldn't have put that first paragraph in. 

    Your second paragraph - Don't write here about it, write Zenimax. They will have your answer. People here most likely will not be able to help you. It could just be a fluke, a scam, or there is now taxes you have to pay on this sub by law.

     

    Ok I understand where you're coming from, but calling my dishonorable is insulting. When someone tells me to do something with my life and I am unable to; then I have the right to let them know. I wasn't looking for Sympathy; I don't know you and you don't know me; but you obviously don't know or have any idea what it's been like. For you to call me not honorable is totally disrespectful no matter how you look at it. 

     

    As for your 2nd reply, I am writing Zenimax about it. I am working on taking care of the problem. But you are not helping by providing just your negative opinion. I know people on here will not be able to physically help me or provide insight on to something I didn't already know. I am venting over a mistake that Zenimax made. Now I'm looking to them to correct that mistake. One way or another I will either have my money back and cancel my account or they will reimburse me for the difference in what I'm supposed to pay and correct the issue for any future payments. 

     

    And I will write here about it. The Community also has a right to know about Companies who make mistakes on part of their player base systems. 

  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    [mod edit]

    He's trying to raise awareness of the issue so that other people know about it. What's so wrong about that?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • quixadhalquixadhal Member UncommonPosts: 215

    Here in the US, there are lobbyist groups working very hard to impose sales taxes on every online purchase, because (a) many states are in the red and a new tax they can collect for zero work is great, and (b) mom and pop stores have been whining about not being able to compete with the likes of amazon for years.

     

    So far, this has gotten to the point of being able to charge taxes if you live in the state which hosts the headquarters of a business, or any physical branch office (like a development studio).

     

    This will likely expand to everyone having to pay such taxes, since the public doesn't care enough to actually vote or bother their congresscritters about it.  Welcome to the future.  Aren't you glad you helped make it?

     

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Btw OP, you need a different bank. Mine only charges me 14 cents for the overseas bank charge on my offshore subs.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by Pyxx

    Zenimax just took out their 1st payment on my Subscription for ESO. Come to find out I wasn't paying $14.99 a month like they had stated. I'm actually paying $16.07 a month now. WTH??! Since when do MMO's charge Taxes? Not even NC SOFT or Blizzard Charge Taxes on Subscriptions. This is a little absurd.  Anyone else get that same charge? 

     

    EDIT - Please read thoroughly before commenting on this Post. I have figured out that this was a Mistake on part of Zenimax for Taking my NA Account and charging me with an EU Paypal email address Prompting my Bank to charge me an International Fee. Thus charging me the $16.07. So Now I am Working on disputing the Overcharge and looking for a Partial Reimbursement or I am cancelling my account altogether. This is a Mistake that Zenimax made and needs to be Fixed. As per Zenimax I have my account set up as NA and should not have been charged that amount. So I'm just waiting for Account and Billing Services to call me back. 

    every  time i subscribe to WoW i choose the $14.99/month option and it charges me $16 dollars. So yeah, they have always charged taxes. I think it depends on what state you live. I live in New Jersey so every mmo ive played with a sub charges $16 a month. EDIT: the receipt clearly states the extra cash as taxes so its not a billing error thing





  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by Crusades
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Pyxx

    Zenimax just took out their 1st payment on my Subscription for ESO. Come to find out I wasn't paying $14.99 a month like they had stated. I'm actually paying $16.07 a month now. WTH??! Since when do MMO's charge Taxes? Not even NC SOFT or Blizzard Charge Taxes on Subscriptions. This is a little absurd.  Anyone else get that same charge? 

     

    EDIT - Please read thoroughly before commenting on this Post. I have figured out that this was a Mistake on part of Zenimax for Taking my NA Account and charging me with an EU Paypal email address Prompting my Bank to charge me an International Fee. Thus charging me the $16.07. So Now I am Working on disputing the Overcharge and looking for a Partial Reimbursement or I am cancelling my account altogether. This is a Mistake that Zenimax made and needs to be Fixed. As per Zenimax I have my account set up as NA and should not have been charged that amount. So I'm just waiting for Account and Billing Services to call me back. 

    every  time i subscribe to WoW i choose the $14.99/month option and it charges me $16 dollars. So yeah, they have always charged taxes. I think it depends on what state you live. I live in New Jersey so every mmo ive played with a sub charges $16 a month. EDIT: the receipt clearly states the extra cash as taxes so its not a billing error thing

    I have a feeling a cancel is incoming anyhow - have you played the game? I think 90% of the players have canceled or it least it seems that way.

    i think you meant to quote OP? but to comment on your comment i did play the game (ESO) and in its current state its not subscription material with or without taxes





  • SysFailSysFail Member Posts: 375

    Those of us in Europe got screwed over by the EU in the early 2's, something the highly corrupt EU likes to do to its members... I can remember when i use to pay around £6 for UO before the EU changed things, thus taking the sub up to £10.

    I can't wait for the referendum so us brits can get out of the joke that is the EU.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273
    Originally posted by SysFail

    Those of us in Europe got screwed over by the EU in the early 2's, something the highly corrupt EU likes to do to its members... I can remember when i use to pay around £6 for UO before the EU changed things, thus taking the sub up to £10.

    I can't wait for the referendum so us brits can get out of the joke that is the EU.

     I am not a fan of the EU myself, but I don't think they put a tariff on MMO's! :)

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175

    I don't know if its Maryland as much as it the state you live in. I live in NJ and they charged me $16.04, 7% sales tax. It looks like you are paying OH state tax of %7.25 with the charge of $16.08.

    Zenimax has nothing to do with tax, I always have to explain that to people who come and pick up their cars when their bill is higher with tax that its not us, its the state that takes it share.

  • buckeyebuckeye Member UncommonPosts: 70
    OP-I live in OH as well, however I pay the monthly subscription by CC and was also charged $16.04. It looks like they added a tax of 7.0% (although the state tax is 5.75% and my county's sales tax rate is 7.25%). I am on an NA server and my email address is  US-based. Will be interesting to see if this happened to everyone, people in certain states or just randomly.
  • Originally posted by Pyxx

    Zenimax just took out their 1st payment on my Subscription for ESO. Come to find out I wasn't paying $14.99 a month like they had stated. I'm actually paying $16.07 a month now. WTH??! Since when do MMO's charge Taxes? Not even NC SOFT or Blizzard Charge Taxes on Subscriptions. This is a little absurd.  Anyone else get that same charge? 

     

    EDIT - Please read thoroughly before commenting on this Post. I have figured out that this was a Mistake on part of Zenimax for Taking my NA Account and charging me with an EU Paypal email address Prompting my Bank to charge me an International Fee. Thus charging me the $16.07. So Now I am Working on disputing the Overcharge and looking for a Partial Reimbursement or I am cancelling my account altogether. This is a Mistake that Zenimax made and needs to be Fixed. As per Zenimax I have my account set up as NA and should not have been charged that amount. So I'm just waiting for Account and Billing Services to call me back. 

     

    its not a mistake, You get charged taxes based on what state your in, since there is no Federal Tax for this sort of thing.

    Some states don't have the Tax, some done, Tennessee for example does have the tax.

    In closing, people whining about paying $14.99 Subscription fee is pretty bad.. But someone whining over paying an extra $2 is even worse..

    McDonalds needs to pay you people better.

  • HrothaHrotha Member UncommonPosts: 821
    Originally posted by Pyxx

    Zenimax just took out their 1st payment on my Subscription for ESO. Come to find out I wasn't paying $14.99 a month like they had stated. I'm actually paying $16.07 a month now. WTH??! Since when do MMO's charge Taxes? Not even NC SOFT or Blizzard Charge Taxes on Subscriptions. This is a little absurd.  Anyone else get that same charge? 

     

    EDIT - Please read thoroughly before commenting on this Post. I have figured out that this was a Mistake on part of Zenimax for Taking my NA Account and charging me with an EU Paypal email address Prompting my Bank to charge me an International Fee. Thus charging me the $16.07. So Now I am Working on disputing the Overcharge and looking for a Partial Reimbursement or I am cancelling my account altogether. This is a Mistake that Zenimax made and needs to be Fixed. As per Zenimax I have my account set up as NA and should not have been charged that amount. So I'm just waiting for Account and Billing Services to call me back. 

    Why do you complain? The majority who purchased the game did not even sub into it, because we knew and saw that it is a fraud. Yet you did not, which is nothing worse - but now you see.

    Quit this and get your act together! Unsub, done.

    image

  • MithicorMithicor Member Posts: 23

    From my experience, not all companies charge the tax, so it isn't dependent on where you live. I think the only 2 games I have been charged tax on(living on California) were Age of Conan and Aion.

    NOTE: Aion was the last sub I have paid so There may have been more recent companies that would have charged taxes.

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Btw OP, you need a different bank. Mine only charges me 14 cents for the overseas bank charge on my offshore subs.

    wow, what? overseas charge ? :D

    For all my online paying life I've never seen being charged for this from my bank.

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  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 865
    Usually when a $14.99 sub is stated, that means final sale after tax..but I guess they are not including tax in their sale price?  

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Originally posted by SysFail

    Those of us in Europe got screwed over by the EU in the early 2's, something the highly corrupt EU likes to do to its members... I can remember when i use to pay around £6 for UO before the EU changed things, thus taking the sub up to £10.

    I can't wait for the referendum so us brits can get out of the joke that is the EU.

    Living in the UK you pay a UK tax (VAT) at the UK rate to the UK government. If the UK government wanted they could exempt online gaming. In the same way that they exempt or charge a lower VAT rate on certain products. If you lived in France you would pay the rate of VAT in France to the French government etc. You pay no EU tax. 

    When it comes to taxes / unpopular policies it is pretty common for those in power to "suggest" that said taxes / policies are due to the Feds or the EU or - anyone basically.   

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Originally posted by poonczey1
    Originally posted by kitarad
    I cannot recall because I never check but in Europe you pay VAT on the monthly subscription if I am not mistaken.n It is not Zenimax doing it they are just obeying the laws of the place you live in.

    No, we don't.

    http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/3027003

     

    Care to explain the VAT there .

     

    See this thread on SWTOR 

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?s=4b585eb6bf88cc0319ca545df69f982a&t=251898

     

    In some games they collect it but don't split it up so you're unaware they are collecting it.

    I'm European and never got charged more than the price as it was presented on their billing page for SW:TOR.

    You need to include the tax in the asking price of a service or goods in Europe, otherwise you're doing illegal stuff. That's where it differs from the states for example.

    As an above poster said, just VAT alone is also no reason to go for 1:1 conversion rates between euros and dollars. VAT differs between countries in Europe and it usually does not make up for the difference. That's another discussion entirely however, one that I've had a few too many times.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • PyxxPyxx Member Posts: 22
    Originally posted by Fearum

    I don't know if its Maryland as much as it the state you live in. I live in NJ and they charged me $16.04, 7% sales tax. It looks like you are paying OH state tax of %7.25 with the charge of $16.08.

    Zenimax has nothing to do with tax, I always have to explain that to people who come and pick up their cars when their bill is higher with tax that its not us, its the state that takes it share.

    I'm now seeing as the time goes on in this investigation that Zenimax clarified that the amount I was charged was a Tax from the State of Ohio and not a charge from my Bank. My Mistake in thinking or jumping to that conclusion. But seeing how the PayPal email address was to PaypalEU@zenimaxonline.com you can see how that is confusing in itself. Especially when I have a NA account.

    However, with that being said; I am now looking into the Sales Tax Definitions and under the Revise Code Section 57939.01 Any Social Media such as Online Gaming Content should not be taxed. Any Digital Media Content such as Netflix, WWE Network, E-Books from Amazon should be taxed. As per a Tax Commissioner Agent I was talking with. 

    The Tax Commissioner Agent had informed me that this was a New Tax Law in place as of Jan 1st 2014. He went into detail in regards to how they started discussing these laws back in 2013 and were not able to effectively place them until 2014.

    Which prompted me to question why I was being Taxed on Cartel Coins from EA / Bioware back in Feb 22 2013 until July 27 2013. After speaking with the Tax Commissioner Agent ; he informed me that it was something worth investigating and possibly look to get a refund for since it's for a Social Media game, and the only thing that I purchase was a Trade of In-game Currency which is not something you can return or rent. So EA / Bioware could have Erroneously charged me the taxes based on those Tax Laws being implemented. And Now I am having to file a Tax Appeal Form for Swtor. and Possibly Zenimax, They are still investigating and will let me know. Same with EA / Bioware, I'm waiting on them to get back to me from their Escalation Department. 

     

    So basically it's a waiting game now for both Zenimax and EA / Bioware's Escalation teams to get back in touch with me. 

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