I would argue that MMO combat has already been dumbed down to the point where it is easier regardless of amount of buttons. Dark Souls is a controller only game and it's combat/strategy is more complex then pretty much any MMO you will see out today. Unfortunately the day when MMOs were primarily very complex real time turn based games seems to be over. Now you generally win without having to put in much effort. If you fail to win you can always pull out your credit card.
The mmo genre hurts the mmo genre because mmos are not that good anymore. Everything is the same game with a different theme settings, rehashed ideas and just about everything is dumbed down for the masses. People just turn to other games or even different platforms for their gaming entertainment because mmos have become pretty disappointing.
Originally posted by Asm0deus It already has, just look at the recent games.
Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.
How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.
Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Asm0deus It already has, just look at the recent games.
Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.
How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.
Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.
Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.
There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Originally posted by Asm0deus It already has, just look at the recent games.
Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.
How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.
Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.
Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.
There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.
Many? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I can only think of two recent MMORPG's that have any sight on consoles FFXIV and ESO. That's not exactly many in my eyes.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
that said I think consoles are a cancer on the entire gaming industry.
Lol, here's the thing, consoles have brought games into the living room, making it more accessible to a larger market, and provided a single, solitary platform to develop against. How that is cancerous for the gaming industry, I fail to see.
Well the issue is then developers are encouraged to design MMORPGS to a lower common denominator in terms of hardware and player base. This limits what these titles could have become in order to cater to the greatest potential profit.
That doesn't really have anything to do with consoles. World of Warcraft has used the same graphics for years and is only finally upgrading now. Most people are just not interested in buying a gaming PC these days. I'm not sure they ever were. It's a niche market.
The industry needs to develop more towards a niche market if it every hopes to really advance the genre. We won't get VR based games and other improvements if they worry too much about people not being willing to spend the money for the headsets and what not.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
dumbed down key use and lack a mouse use , all make for mister stupid games ( my view)
on flipside the stupi dpeople that buy them are often stupid rich and will gte lots of games and paystupid prices for crap.
this means more games but less quality
we see games launch with such shit that if they were car products you'd be seeing a recall order from a judge and lawsuits
add the fact you start off when they new on level playign field gf wise and just suck money out of your console users for years and dont get card upgrades while us pc users move WELL ON....
I believe designing MMOs for consoles will. I had pre ordered FFXIV and enjoyed the game for several months. But one thing was clear, the game was designed for an aging console platform. Every where you went, you were always in a tunnel, you could hardly walk in any direction without running into a wall. Limitations of the PS3 was what I heard explained. EQN is going to introduce a controller friendly combat system. And I doubt it will be great.
I have recently taken up playing a new game of Skyrim. And while this is one of my all time favorite video games, one thing that I am painfully aware of, every minute I play is that it's a console game. The menu system is awful for someone with a keyboard. I also miss some the MMORPG flavored combat, again, to meet the action style of a controller.
It just seems to me that Hybrid designs in this genre will sacrifice too much on both sides to work with the other. Console gamers will have too much action removed and most menu systems will end up being overly clunky And PC gamers will lose their complex combat systems and will also have to deal with the overly clunkiness of controller friendly menu systems. Etc etc.
And while the major positive is that the genre is now open to an entirely new market, I still wonder how long this new market will stick with any one given title. So now we have games that are designed to work within the limitations of a console, but after a few short months, many of those console players have moved on to the next title.
Those are my concerns, But what of the benefits? And what are some other concerns?
For all intents and purposes consoles are on their last legs. They exist because computers were too damn expensive and not really designed with multimedia at their heart. As computers are getting smaller and less expensive the reason for a playstation, nintendo or xbox become less and less especially as those are getting more and more expensive. Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility? Then in 3 years you buy a new video card, slide out the old, slide in the new and you are set for the lifecycle of that generation's consoles and into the next gen. Kinect is probably the only thing that is actually "revolutionary" for this generation but like betamax and smellovision it isn't enough as evidenced with Microsoft's debundling of Kinect and the xbone.
I think you title is wrong to start with , so your side of the argument , it shouldn't be future tense at all , MMO's have been on console since 1998-99. Now a good example of the limitations programmed into an MMO because it was on a console is PSU , it was limited in the fact there was no hard drive worldwide on the PS2. granted it wasn't really SEGA's fault ( how things change though ;/ ) as it was supposed to have a HD but it got ditched. SO in that sense yes consoles have already hurt the MMORPG genre years ago.
Now your other argument falls flat on it's face , I have a 360 controller and play a PC MMO using 40 skills from my skill bar with ease. Consoles have always used a keyboard to communicate and use emotes ( PSO in 1999 ) so that's another mute argument.
So come to 2014 all consoles have large HD's in them so there are no more excuses really. So it has been the developers fault mostly. They can easily have many skills designed to use on a controller they just chose not to.
A personal opinion is , with all the BS that comes with PC's then I much preferred my console MMO days , for which I played for about 10 - 11 years. A console only MMO would be great , or make completely separate versions for console and PC.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility?
Because every middle class home already has a computer and as long as there exists multiple great console-exclusive titles there is a reason to pay for them.
If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.
You would be surprised how many PC purists refuse to use anything but mouse & keyboard on a PC out of principle. It is stubborness such as that, that prevents the PC market to completely absorb the console market. Certain great games need to have a different control scheme than mouse+keyboard to feel great.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I just feel that companies are limiting what they could do with some mmo for that sake of console crossover, seem to me last games I have played have been this way.
Now IMHO this is how it should be
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Exactly, the worst thing for PC gaming is the consolification of our games. The UI mechanics, the combat mechanics, None of which are any good. The only solution is to be able to switch from a console centric game engine to a PC centric game engine. Dev’s won't enjoy the added cost, but F’um. Devs will have to eat the cost and get over it if they want our money. If they don’t, they won’t get our money.
I’ve said it for years, the dumbing down of MMOs is caused by and attempt to attract console gamers.The more the industry caters to this demographics the worse we can expect PC gaming to become. Thou shalt not suffer a console gamer to thrive.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Exactly, the worst thing for PC gaming is the consolification of our games. The UI mechanics, the combat mechanics, None of which are any good. The only solution is to be able to switch from a console centric game engine to a PC centric game engine. Dev’s won't enjoy the added cost, but F’um. Devs will have to eat the cost and get over it if they want our money. If they don’t, they won’t get our money.
I’ve said it for years, the dumbing down of MMOs is caused by and attempt to attract console gamers.The more the industry caters to this demographics the worse we can expect PC gaming to become. Thou shalt not suffer a console gamer to thrive.
Nothing to do with attracting , we where forced to go over to the PC for our MMO's. PSO2 PC only ( unless you count the vita as a console ) and SWTOR not on a console. So me being a sci-fi MMO gamer , had to buy a PC , to fulfill my sci-fi MMO needs.Again MMO's have been on consoles since 1998.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
There's nothing intrinsic to consoles that makes them hurtful to MMOs or to the genre itself, except of course the MMO gamer's fetishism of having twenty-eleven buttons to push to feel smarter than everyone else. Some of the issues that plague PC-based MMOs (for example, just glance at any "Technical Problems" forum for any game) may find answers in the world of consoles. The resistance to rampant RMT that console players seem to have could help curb publisher's bad practices. An influx of new blood could spark publishers to double down on making solid MMOs rather than the next great shooter. Who knows?
Bottom line, the platform is far from a deciding factor-- it's the design principles and aims of developers and their partners that will help or hinder the genre. As it's always been.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
I believe the PS4 is fairly old by computer standards, but is OK for a console. Most people won't care if they have it hooked up to a TV. They just want something they can turn on and start playing. That doesn't mean the games are bad. I prefer console/pc single player games to MMOs of the modern era. You can find some that are open worlds and most have a lot more options available in the game IMO. More importantly they are usually a lot more fun and you never feel the need to spend money while playing the game. I generally only play on PC these days as I'm not a fan of buying multiple computers just to play some exclusives. It seems like yet another scam to me. Similar to RMT in MMOs.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
Killzone was 'confirmed' 1080p, 60fps prior to launch...
I agree that as the system ages graphical fidelity will improve as developers drain every last drop of performance from the machine (which arguably will see a smaller improvement than the ps3 saw throughout it's lifetime) and employ the good old tricks (lower fov etc).
Lets not even get into the 'Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps', which - coming from someone who has a ps4 - is a complete lie (running at 60fps when stationary with no action is a massive difference from an action packed screen (hell, forget action packed how many fps dips do you notice playing games on the new consoles that are pushing the graphics?), to say all consoles run at 60fps in every game is farcical and undermines your own point more so when there are games capped below 60fps). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Watchdogs PS4...900p, 30fps....
The cores on the PS4 iirc are 1.6Ghz. The reason it is failing to run modern high end games at 60fps in all cases is it's price point forcing cheaper components and as such a ceiling on what is achievable. A few years ago yes, this would have run most games, if not all, at 60fps, however games continue to get more and more demanding as new effects are added and utilised.
The XBoxOne is even further behind.
Regarding the OP, no I don't think consoles will hurt the genre. To think they will is naive, the PC MMORPG scene, to many, has been in free fall for the better part of a decade with the concept of virtual worlds slowly giving way to single player experiences alongside others. If anything it will bring more money into the genre and hopefully some new ideas, some of them even possibly being good!
The MMORPG genre has changed a great deal from what is was originally and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. It may just evolve to no longer be appealing to some of it's fans.
Comments
10 fingers vs. four. You tell me.
Doesn't really add up considering they're not much different than games releasing for the PC only, going all the way back to 05. IE GW1, The Matrix OL, COH/V ( outside of deep character building it was a very shallow game especially environmentally not unlike the matrix MMO), so on and so forth. YOu're blaming consoles for what was essentially caused by chasing the casual market WOW style.
How many MMO's actually try and release on consoles? I can think of just a few... FF, DCUO, AOC and ESO. The rest seem to have no plans what so ever of doing so.
Again the pursuit of the casual market is what people should really be blaming here, not consoles.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Many of the recent mmo have been designed with limitation due to having to be compatible with controllers and to work with consoles.
There is no denying they are trying to tap into the console market and it is affecting how they make mmo.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Many? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I can only think of two recent MMORPG's that have any sight on consoles FFXIV and ESO. That's not exactly many in my eyes.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
guy say consoles are cancer...lol
go play the metal gear saga
the uncharted series
Little big planet games
the jak and daxter series
the kingdom hearts series
gran turismo series and many many many more
thx that consoles are still here,they have the best AAA games out there
The industry needs to develop more towards a niche market if it every hopes to really advance the genre. We won't get VR based games and other improvements if they worry too much about people not being willing to spend the money for the headsets and what not.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Precisely. There are many great games that would not exist if the console culture had not existed.
Currently the option is: either you own just a PC, or you own a PC + consoles.
yes
dumbed down key use and lack a mouse use , all make for mister stupid games ( my view)
on flipside the stupi dpeople that buy them are often stupid rich and will gte lots of games and paystupid prices for crap.
this means more games but less quality
we see games launch with such shit that if they were car products you'd be seeing a recall order from a judge and lawsuits
add the fact you start off when they new on level playign field gf wise and just suck money out of your console users for years and dont get card upgrades while us pc users move WELL ON....
the fact is consoles suck in this respect totally
For all intents and purposes consoles are on their last legs. They exist because computers were too damn expensive and not really designed with multimedia at their heart. As computers are getting smaller and less expensive the reason for a playstation, nintendo or xbox become less and less especially as those are getting more and more expensive. Why spend 4 or 5 hundred on a console when you can spend that on a computer for equal performance and more utility? Then in 3 years you buy a new video card, slide out the old, slide in the new and you are set for the lifecycle of that generation's consoles and into the next gen. Kinect is probably the only thing that is actually "revolutionary" for this generation but like betamax and smellovision it isn't enough as evidenced with Microsoft's debundling of Kinect and the xbone.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I think you title is wrong to start with , so your side of the argument , it shouldn't be future tense at all , MMO's have been on console since 1998-99. Now a good example of the limitations programmed into an MMO because it was on a console is PSU , it was limited in the fact there was no hard drive worldwide on the PS2. granted it wasn't really SEGA's fault ( how things change though ;/ ) as it was supposed to have a HD but it got ditched. SO in that sense yes consoles have already hurt the MMORPG genre years ago.
Now your other argument falls flat on it's face , I have a 360 controller and play a PC MMO using 40 skills from my skill bar with ease. Consoles have always used a keyboard to communicate and use emotes ( PSO in 1999 ) so that's another mute argument.
So come to 2014 all consoles have large HD's in them so there are no more excuses really. So it has been the developers fault mostly. They can easily have many skills designed to use on a controller they just chose not to.
A personal opinion is , with all the BS that comes with PC's then I much preferred my console MMO days , for which I played for about 10 - 11 years. A console only MMO would be great , or make completely separate versions for console and PC.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Because every middle class home already has a computer and as long as there exists multiple great console-exclusive titles there is a reason to pay for them.
Played Skyrim, FFXIV and DC UO on both PC and PS3.
I totally hated PS3 versions. I don't think consoles are a good platform to play MMORPGs.
I played more than 200 MMORPGs and i can say that almost any of them would be good on a console (maybe some 2d games).
If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.
Played Skyrim, FFXIV and DC UO on both PC and PS3.
I totally hated PS3 versions. I don't think consoles are a good platform to play MMORPGs.
I played more than 200 MMORPGs and i can say that almost any of them would be good on a console (maybe some 2d games).
If you are just concerned by the control, then just use a control with your PC.
You would be surprised how many PC purists refuse to use anything but mouse & keyboard on a PC out of principle. It is stubborness such as that, that prevents the PC market to completely absorb the console market. Certain great games need to have a different control scheme than mouse+keyboard to feel great.
Oh my god, this whole PC master race is just ridiculous and shows that some of your have the maturity of a 12 year old.
Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps. Current games we see are not representative of the capabilities of this new generation.
And can you please stop talking like there are no hardware limitations when designing for the PC. Trust me no one designs a game with the 2% super high end PCs in mind. They are tons of games coming out that run on Core 2 Duos which is technology as old as the last generation consoles.
You guys spent $5k on a 100 billion core CPU with a GDRR5000 GPU and 1000GB Ram? Good for you. Games are designed for low end to mid end pcs in mind. Also have you seen the way MMOs look? They look like a piece of shit! All MMO games look horrible compared to other high end graphics games which btw run perfectly fine on consoles.
Have you seen ESO? That game looks worse than Skyrim which is a game from 2011.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I just feel that companies are limiting what they could do with some mmo for that sake of console crossover, seem to me last games I have played have been this way.
Now IMHO this is how it should be
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Actually, no, they can't. Increasingly consoles are relegated to running at just 30fps, which is barely acceptable, even worse, they do so, particularly in the case of the Xbone, at barely more than 720p, which really can't be considered to be HD.
The reason is fairly simple, hardware limitations, the Xbone suffers worse than the PS4 simply because it is unable to utilise gddr5 ram, which is, if you hadn't noticed, what all modern GPU's are using, for games its practically a necessity, and the fact that the CPU is only 1.6ghz is also a limiting factor, doesn't matter how many of them there are, it still means that where the GPU is limited, the CPU is unable to take up the slack. Why else do you think that PC's are able to run games in such high definition with frame rates that will forever be unattainable by the current next gen consoles, in what way can an 8 core 1.6ghz CPU possibly be compared to a 4+ core 3.0+ ghz CPU in a PC? and we're not even talking about high end gaming PC's here, but just mid range PC's that would cost well under $1000 to build. This has everything to do with why PC's often run these games at 60+ fps at full 1080 HD, and oddly enough, why the next gen consoles.. can't, and its not because they don't want to.
Exactly, the worst thing for PC gaming is the consolification of our games. The UI mechanics, the combat mechanics, None of which are any good. The only solution is to be able to switch from a console centric game engine to a PC centric game engine. Dev’s won't enjoy the added cost, but F’um. Devs will have to eat the cost and get over it if they want our money. If they don’t, they won’t get our money.
I’ve said it for years, the dumbing down of MMOs is caused by and attempt to attract console gamers.The more the industry caters to this demographics the worse we can expect PC gaming to become. Thou shalt not suffer a console gamer to thrive.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Nothing to do with attracting , we where forced to go over to the PC for our MMO's. PSO2 PC only ( unless you count the vita as a console ) and SWTOR not on a console. So me being a sci-fi MMO gamer , had to buy a PC , to fulfill my sci-fi MMO needs.Again MMO's have been on consoles since 1998.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
There's nothing intrinsic to consoles that makes them hurtful to MMOs or to the genre itself, except of course the MMO gamer's fetishism of having twenty-eleven buttons to push to feel smarter than everyone else. Some of the issues that plague PC-based MMOs (for example, just glance at any "Technical Problems" forum for any game) may find answers in the world of consoles. The resistance to rampant RMT that console players seem to have could help curb publisher's bad practices. An influx of new blood could spark publishers to double down on making solid MMOs rather than the next great shooter. Who knows?
Bottom line, the platform is far from a deciding factor-- it's the design principles and aims of developers and their partners that will help or hinder the genre. As it's always been.
Metro 2033 has been confirmed to run 1080p at 60fps on PS4. Trust me you need more than a medium range PC to max out that game at 60fps.
Developers are only just beginning to find out what they can do with the new consoles. Games are not very optimised and the current game engines do not lend themselves to too many cores.
With the specs that PS4 has I fail to see how it will be unable to run games at 1080p at 60 fps. It has plenty of GDDR5 ram, has 8 cores which while not at a high frequency (tbh I haven't found info on the frequency) is still a lot of cores. And the GPU is okay too.
Or is your entire post based on how the Xbox one can't run games at 60 fps? Haven't looked that much into the Xbox one to be honest.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I believe the PS4 is fairly old by computer standards, but is OK for a console. Most people won't care if they have it hooked up to a TV. They just want something they can turn on and start playing. That doesn't mean the games are bad. I prefer console/pc single player games to MMOs of the modern era. You can find some that are open worlds and most have a lot more options available in the game IMO. More importantly they are usually a lot more fun and you never feel the need to spend money while playing the game. I generally only play on PC these days as I'm not a fan of buying multiple computers just to play some exclusives. It seems like yet another scam to me. Similar to RMT in MMOs.
Killzone was 'confirmed' 1080p, 60fps prior to launch...
I agree that as the system ages graphical fidelity will improve as developers drain every last drop of performance from the machine (which arguably will see a smaller improvement than the ps3 saw throughout it's lifetime) and employ the good old tricks (lower fov etc).
Lets not even get into the 'Consoles can run all games at 1080p at 60 fps', which - coming from someone who has a ps4 - is a complete lie (running at 60fps when stationary with no action is a massive difference from an action packed screen (hell, forget action packed how many fps dips do you notice playing games on the new consoles that are pushing the graphics?), to say all consoles run at 60fps in every game is farcical and undermines your own point more so when there are games capped below 60fps). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Watchdogs PS4...900p, 30fps....
The cores on the PS4 iirc are 1.6Ghz. The reason it is failing to run modern high end games at 60fps in all cases is it's price point forcing cheaper components and as such a ceiling on what is achievable. A few years ago yes, this would have run most games, if not all, at 60fps, however games continue to get more and more demanding as new effects are added and utilised.
The XBoxOne is even further behind.
Regarding the OP, no I don't think consoles will hurt the genre. To think they will is naive, the PC MMORPG scene, to many, has been in free fall for the better part of a decade with the concept of virtual worlds slowly giving way to single player experiences alongside others. If anything it will bring more money into the genre and hopefully some new ideas, some of them even possibly being good!
The MMORPG genre has changed a great deal from what is was originally and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. It may just evolve to no longer be appealing to some of it's fans.