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Normal Dungeons Should Be Nerfed/Dungeon Tutorial For New Players
ThumbtackJ
Member UncommonPosts: 669
EDIT: I won't remove my original post, but I will add to it my current thoughts. Perhaps calling for a nerf was a bit rash. I think what would be better is a more in-depth guided tutorial for new players, that teaches them mechanics like armor interrupting, not standing in telegraphs, what stats mean for their class and how it varies between DPS/Tank/Heals, etc. That way, when players do get into the first dungeons, it's not just BAM! Right in their face with the increased difficulty (compared to most other dungeons in MMOs).
People suck. Not going to sugar coat it. Mark targets, type out what to do in chat, etc. etc. etc. People don't listen. Everyone acts as if these dungeons were just AoE grind fests. Then you have tanks and healers coming in with Assault PvP gear (literally JUST saw this happen). That's the majority. Dungeons 1-49 need to be easier, end of story. Make your Veteran modes as hard as you feel like, but I'm tired of not being able to get a competent group together for normal modes.
People won't "Get better" over time. Just won't happen. The majority want to jump in, do a 30 minute dungeon, and jump out. These people are either unable or unwilling to adapt to this sort of difficulty. They will leave this game, and there will be nothing but a small crowd of niche hardcore fans left. And if that's enough for NCSoft/Carbine/Board of Directors, then awesome. But the majority WILL move on.
Personally, I don't mind the increased difficulty (in reality, they aren't THAT hard, stay out of the tele's, kill healers first, mark enemies, wear the proper gear, etc. It's not rocket surgery), but I'm willing to bet the vast majority do mind, and won't stick with it for long. For me, it's kind of like that Demon/Dark Souls feeling. You die over and over to a boss, and then when you finally get it down, you get that "*cupcake* YEAH!" moment, and it's WAY more satisfying than just mindlessly AoEing everything down. But I also understand that I'm (and others like me) are in the vast minority.
I don't know. Just felt like ranting. Just how I see things. What do you all think?
Comments
Why don't you try to fix things from your end, instead of ruining the game for others just to suit yourself.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Like saying 110 metres hurdles should be 10 metres hurdles.
well i dont know,it happened to whole genre few years ago.
Might happen,who knows,depends of the wine.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I know reading is hard, but next time you post, you should REALLY give it a shot.
I wasn't complaining about the difficulty on a personal level, I was complaining about how the difficulty effects the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE. As in everyone who doesn't enjoy the increased difficulty (when compared to most other modern MMO's). I like it, but here's the thing, most others don't. And they will not stick around.
And i for one will be glad to wave them goodbye, ESO and other fed-x games will be waiting for their return.
Sorry, devs wont cater towards this player base you are mentioning cause the other player base does not want this, cant have it both ways, so they choose to keep it hard. End of story
/end of thread
I absolutely agree, except in red. I don't think people will get it. I honestly don't. When I see tanks and healers coming into dungeons (or even adventures) with the entirely wrong gear, and not specced right, it makes me lose all hope that the player base will adapt. Like I said, you mark targets, try to explain things to people, and they just don't listen. They've already gotten used to how dungeons have been over the last decade. IF people do adapt, it will take much more time.
If Carbine doesn't stick to their guns I'd be really disappointed. I think they actually scared Blizz a little (since WoW will be getting Mythic difficulty now too), and that's tough to do. If they water it down then where's your edge?
Crazkanuk
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The game has been out 1-2 weeks. You are expecting people to know there class & role already & in there first dungeon. All of this after most of the people that play MMO's these days are used to being handed everything to them on a platter......
Your responce." F" IT make it easy cause i want my shinys and its everyone else.
My responce. "Your just going to have to work harder, and. AND actually talk to people *GASPS* i know right. Your going to have to talk to people in a MMO."
Uhh... what?
I think they are fine the way they are. It is nice to see a game where the content offers a challenge. People will learn and get better or they simply won't complete all the dungeons.
Dungeons are a requirement to reach 50th level they are just something fun to do along the way. If the general populace doesn't prepare or pay attention then you shouldn't PUG them and instead invest the effort to finding/building a decent guild.
This is a gear progression mmo. Dungeons will get nerfed by default when the next tier comes out. Been that way with these types of mmos since eq
I don't think you understand how raiding works in WoW. Mythic difficulty is not new, its just a renamed heroic mode. Normal mode is now "heroic", flex is now "normal". WoW tried going back to hard dungeons in Cata, the playerbase flipped the heck out, they will not be going back to that.
A) The OP is talking about the leveling dungeons.
This is the new reality facing game developers. Players have options and alternatives, and if they can't do the content (because they suck) then they just whine and get what they want or they quit.
People saying Carbine will stick to their guns on this might be right, but there's the very real possibility that a potentially shrinking playbase could cause them to change their minds. It's always small steps. First the regular dungeons get easier, then the vet level, then the raids get a bit easier, then they reduce raid size and so on.
WoW didn't just up and change overnight, it was years of adjustments to player reactions.
Cata came out with heroics with insta-wipe mechanics and multi-phase bosses. The playerbase promptly crapped their pants. It affects good players too. Not because they, themselves find the content too difficult, but because in a group based (trinity) game, you can't get very far alone.
So you're either fortunate to have good quality guild mates and friends, or you get lucky in pugs. But most of the time you spend hours wiping because you're grouped with mentally deficient mouth-breathers.
It's way too early to say what will or won't happen in Wildstar, but the OP is right about one thing. People DON'T learn. They suck and they continue to suck for years and years and years.
Um I thought you got to choose whether to be scaled down for better loot, or just steamroll it. I got a dialog box before entering that let me choose this.
WoW spent years making their content easier and easier and more and more new gamers came to WoW and did not learn the game, got to end game and freaked out when it was all of a sudden it was hard. So they made the game easier on that end as well. Hardcore gamers got ticked. Thing is you make the mechanics and game play reflect the end game and it trains players. People who dont get it leave and in the end you have a game filled with like minded gamers. a, because they were trained by the game or b, the ones who could not be trained left. End game, happy community. Game devs make their game to easy to quick and remove that process. If thats what your shooting for, great. Not my game. Carbine is looking for gamers, hardcore gamers who know this game is easy to learn but hard to master. Thats their words.
I am sorry I didn't realize that your were speaking on behalf of "MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE". So far I only see you complaining about it. Official forums are quite on the topic, people here seem to be very content here. So where is that "MAJORITY" that you are claiming to speak for?
Do you have any data aside form the fact that you got into couple of bad PUGs? As in your know proper research? Because right now it seems that the only thing you got is a loud mouth and a lot of opinion that is not substantiated by facts.
I think one of the main points here is that you're referring to level 20-49 dungeons. I don't know many tanks who are going to max out their support stats while still trying to level to 50. It makes soloing take FOREVER and makes an assault spec less than effective. I think the problem with people entering these dungeons with dps gear has more to do with the fact that they're still leveling and don't want to spend time collecting gear that will be outdated by the time they finish the dungeon. Unless they start carrying around multiple sets of gear, I don't see this changing any time soon.
As for the difficulty, speaking as an Engineer tank, my first experience with dungeons at lvl 20 was great. I joined a group who was looking for a tank (yes I had spec'd and had a decent amount of tank gear). We wiped on the first trash mob, refined our strategy and were able to adapt. It was actually very refreshing to find a challenging dungeon in an mmo for a change. It took us over an hour before we were able to figure out how to defeat the first boss in Stormtalon Lair. The entire dungeon ended up taking close to 3 hours for us to complete... but we finished it. I even made friends and found a guild in the process.
I think that the biggest problems that people are having with the Wildstar dungeons is not a matter of gear, but of knowing how to play their role within the group. Tanking is totally different in this game than in any other game I've played. Instead of just "don't stand in the fire" it's more like "don't stand in the fire while making sure to stand in the healer's telegraph." Same for healers, you have to actually aim at the people you're trying to heal so the dynamics of combat really change. Especially when you add in boss telegraphs that can separate the tank from the healer. It's a big learning curve but lots of fun. I think as more people get used to it pugs will be a little easier. It's like Bill says, "don't let a bad pug get you down."
I just wanted to say that this is beautiful. Carbine has brought new hope, and I pray they never give up on the path they've taken. Wildstar is the one saving grace in the mmo landscape in the last 5 years.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Gimme a freaking break.
Wildstar is popular and successful because it is not another one of the 1000's of entitled generation gimme games.
The dungeons are challenging, and at times frustrating, but the biggest problem with the dungeons is the entitled generation gamers that quit group at the first problem.
What they need to do is add a 72 account ban on anyone who jumps groups.
Guess what people would start learning the mechanics to get thru the dungeon rather than just trying to jump into another group that will carry them.
Oh and another thing LEARN to use interrupts and to target the mob healers FIRST!
That doesn't make your request any less stupid. The playbase will learn and adapt. Quit asking companies to dumb stuff down for the lowest denominator. They will stick around if they enjoy the game. These guys need to build their game and not try to cater to everyone.