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how to deal with Pay2Win MMORPGs?
maji
Member UncommonPosts: 2,091
So, for me, a pay2win MMORPG is any MMORPG where you can spend real money to get stuff that alters the gameplay. And it doesn't look like we'd ever get another MMORPG to which that doesn't apply. So how to deal with that? I see there three possibilities.
a) stop playing MMORPGs. If they can't deliver what you want (a non-pay2win game), then simply don't play them. There are enough other awesome multiplayer games out there, such as DOTA2, that do well without pay2win. So currently I do that, but I really like MMORPGs, so that's quite a shame.
b) ignore the pay2win part. Just accept that this is what things look like. A significant portion of the players want that, the companies deliver, and that's the way it is. Simply don't use the shop. Of course you have to live with the concept of playing a game that cripples you on purpose to force you to spend money, that people beat you in PvP because they spent more money, and that the guy you just congrulated for his awesome sword has bought it for real money a second ago.
c) treat the game like a subscription game. set aside a certain amount of money each month and spend it for stuff in the games pay2win shop. most problems of b) still apply, but the number of people randomly destroying you in pvp for money reasons will be smaller, and you will have the necessary basics to actually enjoy the game (a decent bank size, more than one character slot, an acceptable rate of gaining xp).
So what do you do?
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Comments
A: that isn't what it means, you just made that up.
B: paid expansions alter game play making your version of p2w stupid.
All words are made up. The question is just whether enough people agree on the same meaning so that using that word makes sense.
Also, it doesn't make much sense that you claim to have a different understanding of p2w while being unable to state what it is. I mean, how we are supposed to discuss this subject then?
Yes, in some cases, expansions can be considered pay2win.
There is a key number of differences though:
a) an expansion people buy once, and then they're all on the same level. You basically have then two classes of players. The regular ones and the ones with the expansion. With pay2win cash shops though, people can spend any amount of money, up to insane amounts. So you don't have just two classes of players, but you have anything from the crippled player who doesn't pay any money and has a near broken game, up to the guy who spends thousands of bucks and destroys everybody else.
b) expansions normally give a quite large amount of content that the company put a lot of work into. When you pay 20$ for another character slot or more space in the bank, then that requires no work of that company at all. They just change a single variable.
c) paid expansions come in large intervals, whereas the cash shops receive a constant flood of boosts and items, allowing people, again, to spend thousands of bucks, if they want a game that basically plays itself
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I had fun once, it was terrible.
Unfortunately because the way most MMO's are set up they can not prevent gold farming or they don't have a good enough business model or game to support the system without making players purchase tons of level up crystals and gems... I got so sick of it I decided to form my own game company.
You'll never be able to stop players from paying to win. However we set up a system where people who pay to win are never matched up with regular new players or medium skill players.
We even posted an article about this very topic here
darkstar-games.com/spacemasters.html
EQ2 added the strongest crafts in the game in an expansion meaning anyone who did not buy that xpac would be erased from the auction house.They added a pack pony that harvests for you while you play,a decent advantage over time.
What made these powerful additions lame is that that is about the ONLY thing these xpacs offered.Big time difference in combat if wearing those new crafts.
As for paid xpacs ,i think MANY should realize that sub fees should more than cover those costs,yet devs were still making us pay for those.SO after 1 year you paid 180+another 30-50 for an xpac so 200+ bucks a year easily.
You can look further at Wiz 101 a kids game for god sakes,they added mercs you could buy to aid in combat and were only a ONE time"one battle" use lol.
Bottom line is that at one time people defended all of this by saying "they only offer cosmetic".I said way back then,it was just a foot in the door until a full push to over priced gaming.
I am as of now not playing any mmorpg,i either can't stand the publisher/developer or the monetary system in place.I do not like hidden costs in a past tiem that is suppose to be about FUN,not about over the top money grinding.
Sadly i am playing Hearthstone a card game by a developer i don't like "Blizzard".Slack effort by their team so far and a pay 2 win system unless you have 8 hours a day everyday to play for free and slowly build up the cards.Knowing Blizzard i am 99% certain they are monitoring the amount of gold saved by players and will afford the cost for the new cards above and beyond FAIR value because of the high gold stash players are hanging onto.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
In the industry, "pay to win" is generally understood to be an advantage gained by spending money that cannot otherwise be gained through playing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You know what crosses the line for you, don't argue with them.
These days I lean heavily towards 'A', not just for p2w though. The games are boring clones, the players are jerks, and the developers are greedy.
Save yourself the displeasure of dealing with all three and just stick to single player games. You'll find their far more in depth and challenging anyway.
The first thing i do is disagree with how you define P2W. For an example i have a very hard time seeing how the mounts or cosmetic helms in WoW is P2W in any way.. and they still fit under your label.
But if i go by the spirit of your question rather then the exact wording. I used to play a game like that, and while it is not a full MMORPG it is a MMO racer called NFS:W. In that game it for a long time was so that the best cars (stat wise) could only be bought with real money. No other way to get them. So what did i do... I simply ignored it. Sure i knew that if i got in to a race with one of those cars my loss was all but set. But i made a small mini-game out of it to try and get as close as i could and every now and then i beat them.
Now when it comes to F2P games otoh i sually do C, i set a amount i feel the game is worth to me each month and never put in more money than that,,, For god knows they can suck you dry if you want to.
Buuuut as i said i do not agree with your idea of P2W. And for the most time if a game is really P2W as in a PvP game that sells a special stat boost or buff that can´t be had in-game i usually walk away, my life is to short to be upset over stupid crap like that. In fact NFS:W is the only blatant P2W game i have stayed with and that was mostly due to a alck of a decent on-line racer at the time.
This have been a good conversation
ISO: Forum +1/Like feature
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I grouse that they do not have non-whale servers.
The thing is the whales want to be kings of the sea. The mid-range players want to avoid the whales, and have a more or less fair playing field.
This is easy to do actually...
Server type one Normal, no limits on buying.
Server type two -> $100 per month maximum limit on buying. $5 per month minimum limit on buying.
Server type three -> $30 per month maximum limit on buying. $10 per month minimum limit on buying.
This gets everyone what they want. The whales can be kings of the sea, and you can buy the protection you can afford if you are putting a minimum amount into the game, or for a level playing field at higher levels. And the game can pull the maximum amount of money out of the players.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I think most p2w complaints translate to I have to spend money on something I don't think I should...I doubt many care what other people buy.
A: that isn't what it means, you just made that up.
B: paid expansions alter game play making your version of p2w stupid.
All words are made up. The question is just whether enough people agree on the same meaning so that using that word makes sense.
Also, it doesn't make much sense that you claim to have a different understanding of p2w while being unable to state what it is. I mean, how we are supposed to discuss this subject then?
In the industry, "pay to win" is generally understood to be an advantage gained by spending money that cannot otherwise be gained through playing.
Wrong - pay2win is paying for anything that gives one an advantage including consumable x p potions and various other shortcuts, early weapon loadouts, extra bag space..... It's all pay2win - which means there are many games that are pay to win. If you don't like it then go do something else.Er, you are arguing with someone who works in the industry about what the industry considers P2W to be. In fact CCP did an extensive analysis which got inadvertently published which concluded items of power have the strongest buying appeal. There is a big negative of course, it drives away other players so there is a fine line to walk in this regard.
None of those items you mentioned are really P2W, they are short cuts that impart no significant advantage in most games, as long as you have the time to play to compensate.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Exactly. Xp potions are not p2w because at any given level the other person cannot do anything more than I do. They will get to another level faster, but when we are the same level there is no difference. There will always be people ahead of me in levels so why should I care how fast someone else gets there.
Just because you don't play a game a certain way, doesn't make it not P2W. Pure and simple, the OP's definition is the correct way to define P2W. It doesn't exclude any person's play style.
I personally choose C if there is some aspect that I like. Normally, I just set a spending limit of $180 after I have decided to play it for a year.
Are you trying to justify that microtransactions are the same as RMT from a 3rd party. I can't really argue with dubious nature of the microtransaction model, but that just seems wrong.
Either accept it or stop playing games that you define as being "P2W".
You can also complain about it, but unless you're Oprah Winfrey's cousin, complaining will most probably have zero effect.
The "legal" definition of P2W is if there are items in the Cash Shop that cannot be obtained through "normal game play" AND/OR those items have attributes that make them more powerful than anything else in the game.
Of course, YMMV. We don't all have the same definition of what constitutes "normal game play" or "a resaonable time". Therefore many of these items that can be earned in game require a few hundred hours of "normal game play".
Because of this, every MMO is pay2win. You either accept it and ignore it or don't play it.
But most games, you don't have to buy anything. There are things that people WANT to buy, but don't HAVE to buy. People need to adjust their expectations. These games can be played completely free. You might not get everything that others have (which nobody should care about), you might take longer to level, you might not get the cosmetic items you want, but you can play free.
And yes, lots of people seem to care what others buy, they want to be competitive with people who are spending thousands of dollars. It's not going to happen. They need to change their expectations.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None