So, for me, a pay2win MMORPG is any MMORPG where you can spend real money to get stuff that alters the gameplay.
A: that isn't what it means, you just made that up.
B: paid expansions alter game play making your version of p2w stupid.
All words are made up. The question is just whether enough people agree on the same meaning so that using that word makes sense.
Also, it doesn't make much sense that you claim to have a different understanding of p2w while being unable to state what it is. I mean, how we are supposed to discuss this subject then?
Yes, in some cases, expansions can be considered pay2win.
There is a key number of differences though:
a) an expansion people buy once, and then they're all on the same level. You basically have then two classes of players. The regular ones and the ones with the expansion. With pay2win cash shops though, people can spend any amount of money, up to insane amounts. So you don't have just two classes of players, but you have anything from the crippled player who doesn't pay any money and has a near broken game, up to the guy who spends thousands of bucks and destroys everybody else.
b) expansions normally give a quite large amount of content that the company put a lot of work into. When you pay 20$ for another character slot or more space in the bank, then that requires no work of that company at all. They just change a single variable.
c) paid expansions come in large intervals, whereas the cash shops receive a constant flood of boosts and items, allowing people, again, to spend thousands of bucks, if they want a game that basically plays itself
Based on your statements I would say there are three games on the market right now that are not P2W. WoW, FFXiV and ESO since if you don't count expansions it would be silly to count pre-order perks as P2W.
I think your definition of P2W is a little to broad myself but to each their own. I tend to avoid the blatant P2W games with mechanics like cash shop items to increase you chance of improving a item endlessly (or at least until your credit limit is hit) and games where new forms of currency are created to make a bridge between real world transactions and in game currency. Most other things like XP potions and even lower level gear I don't really think of as P2W myself but I can certainly see where some people would.
Originally posted by Cephus404 People need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and just play the damn game. Stop caring what anyone else has, what they bought, etc. Stop competing. I don't buy anything out of the cash shop, never have and never will, no matter what it is. It doesn't bother me if the guy next to me spent zero or $15,000 this month. Why should I care? Why do you?
I think most p2w complaints translate to I have to spend money on something I don't think I should...I doubt many care what other people buy.
But most games, you don't have to buy anything. There are things that people WANT to buy, but don't HAVE to buy. People need to adjust their expectations. These games can be played completely free. You might not get everything that others have (which nobody should care about), you might take longer to level, you might not get the cosmetic items you want, but you can play free.
And yes, lots of people seem to care what others buy, they want to be competitive with people who are spending thousands of dollars. It's not going to happen. They need to change their expectations.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying when you look through all the song and dance that people actually post, most of the time what they're saying is I don't want to have to pay. When you read someones pay to win thread ask yourself...is this person saying anything I'd want that cost money is p2w. You'll be surprised how often the answer is yes.
There are legit concerns with p2w. Selling a direct advantage over another player in combat...the selling of power is something games have to avoid. But when the argument is whaaa this mount is cash shop only...p2w!!! It's really just them saying I don't want to have to pay.
I've been playing Wartune since January. For those who aren't familiar with the game, it's probably one of the most pay to win games currently available. However, I haven't spent a dime on the game and have put in a lot of hours and had a lot of fun. I just acknowledge the fact that I'll never be the most powerful character, wont have the best items, will have to do without a lot of the cash shop stuff, etc. As long as you realize that up front, and are ok with it, then you can still have a lot of fun with some pay to win games.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
Based on your statements I would say there are three games on the market right now that are not P2W. WoW, FFXiV and ESO since if you don't count expansions it would be silly to count pre-order perks as P2W.
I think your definition of P2W is a little to broad myself but to each their own. I tend to avoid the blatant P2W games with mechanics like cash shop items to increase you chance of improving a item endlessly (or at least until your credit limit is hit) and games where new forms of currency are created to make a bridge between real world transactions and in game currency. Most other things like XP potions and even lower level gear I don't really think of as P2W myself but I can certainly see where some people would.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying when you look through all the song and dance that people actually post, most of the time what they're saying is I don't want to have to pay. When you read someones pay to win thread ask yourself...is this person saying anything I'd want that cost money is p2w. You'll be surprised how often the answer is yes.
There are legit concerns with p2w. Selling a direct advantage over another player in combat...the selling of power is something games have to avoid. But when the argument is whaaa this mount is cash shop only...p2w!!! It's really just them saying I don't want to have to pay.
/this.
IMO, we need to ban people using p2w terminology.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"