So Why Do You Want Trinity?

Horusra

And what does any of that have to do with trinity vs non. Tweaking the fights can make people pay attention, think, and plan in trinity.

FelixMajor

Originally posted by Horusra
And what does any of that have to do with trinity vs non. Tweaking the fights can make people pay attention, think, and plan in trinity.

Has nothing to do with trinity vs. non trinity.

 

This was a response to a previous comment about GW2 combat.

 

Although, this can happen in both styles of games, whether trinity is present or not.

 

*Sorry, I mean to say my response has nothing to do with trinity vs. non trinity it was branched off from an early discussion directed to GW2*

Horusra

I just do not see one being more dynamic than another...trinity can offer off tanking, off healing, dps control, healing control, crowd control...etc...all the same. Just lately we have not see it being made does not mean it can not. Much like the non trinity games are making things zergfest at the moment. Neither is truely superior in what it can provide...just neither are fully used and explored.

Foobarx

Originally posted by FelixMajor

Originally posted by Horusra
And what does any of that have to do with trinity vs non. Tweaking the fights can make people pay attention, think, and plan in trinity.

Has nothing to do with trinity vs. non trinity.

 

This was a response to a previous comment about GW2 combat.

 

Although, this can happen in both styles of games, whether trinity is present or not.

Let's be honest here, the most dangerous character in game is other players, not NPCs.  You want to really test out your skill as a healer or a tank or whatnot, go up against other players.  They don't follow set rules.  They will use every means necessary, fair and unfair, to slip you up.  That is the only true dynamic in the game.  Everything else, and I do mean, everything else, is completely scripted and predictable.  For all those boo-hooing games that are linear, you can't get more linear than that.  I don't care whether it's a sandbox, hybrid or whatever, unless you are going up against other players... it's TOTALLY scripted.  Your behavior may be chaotic, but that NPCs behavior is not.  The fight is already skewed in your favor because you know what he is going to do before he does it... it doesn't know, nor care what you are about to do because it's on a script. 

 

Nothing is more terrifying than to walk into a boss fight and find 30 of your opposing faction in their waiting for you.  The boss doesn't care about them, only you... now you have the added fun of trying to kill them and the boss at the same time.  And the boss is the least deadly of the two.

MadFrenchie

I do remember my S/S Paladin in DAoC being a support/off tank. I brought high-intensity, short term buffs to the group and assisted the main tank while keeping an eye on mobs that change targets to healer/DPS. My job was to peel those targets.

But, that was back when there weren't literally percentages holding your hand telling you a mob was about to turn on you. Back before tanking became hella easy because all you have to do now is spam a skill that kept everyone focused on you. Back when a mob attacking your healer meant his heals were interrupted, not just delayed .5 seconds.

Y'know, back when you didn't blow through dungeons simply because your group had the right classes and gear. A group could fail based on one person not doing their job correctly (including DPS).

FelixMajor

Originally posted by Foobarx

Originally posted by FelixMajor

Originally posted by Horusra
And what does any of that have to do with trinity vs non. Tweaking the fights can make people pay attention, think, and plan in trinity.

Has nothing to do with trinity vs. non trinity.

 

This was a response to a previous comment about GW2 combat.

 

Although, this can happen in both styles of games, whether trinity is present or not.

Let's be honest here, the most dangerous character in game is other players, not NPCs.  

 

Nothing is more terrifying than to walk into a boss fight and find 30 of your opposing faction in their waiting for you.  The boss doesn't care about them, only you... now you have the added fun of trying to kill them and the boss at the same time.  And the boss is the least deadly of the two.

This is true.  I don't remember the last time I even encountered a situation like this though.

Horusra

Some do not want pvp. That is beside the point. We are talking more about the play styles being dynamic not just the encounter. One can make either trinity or non dynamic play so long as thought is put into the game design.

BailoPan15

Originally posted by Horusra
Some do not want pvp. That is beside the point. We are talking more about the play styles being dynamic not just the encounter. One can make either trinity or non dynamic play so long as thought is put into the game design.

This, exactly. But the more static and dull combat is often represented exclusively in trinity games. For one reason or another the devs go lazy and ignore things like, i don't know, maybe not being falcon punched from 50 meters away or wall hit your ass while you went there to take cover in the first place. 

Action games tend to fix just that so they would look different and win people's hearts by that. 

Also, a 360 degree attack angle is a dick move from the devs. Its not okay just because there is a healer class in-game >.> 

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Did you ever consider that's why people like it? It creates a dependency on other players?

That is exactly why i do not like it .. it creates a dependency on others.

 

      Then go play those games..  One thing we can always count on from you is , "ALL GAMES SHOULD APPEASE MY DEMANDS"..  Some of us want hamburgers, but you demand HOT DOGS on every menu in the world..... STOP IT!!  lol

hmm .. where did i say i need all games to cater to me? I merely state my preference, same as everyone else here.

And yes, i play those games? You think i will play a game where my fun depends on others? If MMOs are like that, you think i would be back to the genre?

Soandsoso

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by Arclan

Trinity contributes to community. Simple as that. If you have to ask me to explain it then you wouldn't get it even if did.

ohh yes becouse spamming world chat with LF XXXXXX yyyyyyy+ GS makes community alive ;p

ohh and you can always say its becouse it was tank or healer that everyone dies

 

as for others i dare you go play Gw2 now go to worm or teq as a zerg you will fail it no matter how many zerkers you bring

 

and how gw2 is different from games with trinity?

in other games they are looking for specific classes to max the dps or heal or tank (becouse one is better than another) and if your playing something else well reroll or your not welcome in the party

but there is easy solution for this, just stay away from this mentaly ill players and do the stuff with your friends or guild

 

 

trinity req strategy and tactics? its a joke right?

all the content in trinity based games = tank and spank and evade red circles

Start your own group instead of sitting there spamming. Easy solution.

Stop waiting for others to do it for you.

 

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

Beatnik59

I don't know if I ever wanted "trinity".  The Healer-Tank-DPS triad simply came about because of its efficiency.  We certainly could do without it.  Back in Pre-CU SWG, we had doctors and medics, but we didn't need these classes to come out into the field.  Everybody with a little medical training could heal themselves and others with crafted stim-b's.

But if you are going to take the assumption that MMORPGs are combat games, then you are going to have to ask yourself what variables a player has to work with.  And they can be broken down into two:

"Choice A allows me to take more punishment."

or,

"Choice B allows me to dish out more punishment."

This is the basic combat choice, the choice that every game which allows for choice requires a combatant to make.  And I don't care if we are talking Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, or World of Tanks, or Wildstar...some choices are better at taking punishment, while other choices are better for dealing out punishment.  If you can choose both simultaneously, this is what is known as an "alpha class," which is deliberately overpowered.  You find such alpha classes as unlocks or as a pay upgrade.

MMOs that operate by the trinity offer a third option:

"Choice C allows me to keep A and B in the fight."

The "healer" is simply something that makes characters dish out more punishment or (more likely) helps characters to take more punishment (which also includes rezzing from the dead).  It certainly isn't needed in FPS or, if it is, everybody can do it (like in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer).

But, no matter what the game really is, if you are...

1) a combat game

and,

2)  allow for some player choice in setup

...you are going to have some version of "tank" and "DPS".  Whether this takes the form of choosing a Batarian brawler vanguard in Mass Effect 3 (tank) over an Asari adept (DPS), or a barbarian over a mage, it is always going to be a matter of choosing firepower or survivability.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

So you readily admit to preferring mindless zerging over strategic well thought out combat? And then you wonder why there are so many bad games out there?

Soandsoso

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

Being good and social always meant that as soon as I logged in I got invites to groups. Followed up by tells during my play session asking if I wanted to do dungeon x.

If no one is social, they wont remember if you are good.

 

Beelzebobbie

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

So you readily admit to preferring mindless zerging over strategic well thought out combat? And then you wonder why there are so many bad games out there?

Strategic zerging is something I love, playing in GW2 and just joining a zerg in wvw is boaring but join a great commander on teamspeak who is commander a big zerg could be a totally different thing, mindless zerging could be fun for an hour but in the long run it gets really old fast and the fun of it fades quickly. No matter trinity or not strategic gaming is always more fun.

Pratt2112

Originally posted by BailoPan15

Originally posted by Arclan

Trinity contributes to community. Simple as that. If you have to ask me to explain it then you wouldn't get it even if did.

@Storm said that before you, 2 guys after that debunked it. And since I'm all up for examples, how is the current trinity in WoW doing any community service with all the gear checks and builds and whatnot? IMO this is a fallacy. I've met many people that I dare to call friends in Tyria, while people on this forum would have you believe that you are unable to say a word to anyone because of action combat. 

Your entire post is based around player/character roles in combat, thus the comparisons are based on combat-time interaction. In that context, with action combat, where you're constantly moving, you don't have time to communicate, unless you're on voice chat, which not everyone uses. Hence, people saying that action combat leads to less communication is a pretty fair argument.

Tab-based combat, where there's less movement (though not necessarily less positioning - there are tab-based combat systems where positioning matters), tend to allow for a bit more time to communicate during battle. Although, it's less notable with newer games where the combat's a bit faster paced.

Wouldn't you agree that in an age of action combat (i get that and acknowledge the fact that some of you hate the action combat!), for those that actually enjoy it, trinity is nothing more than blast from the past? That as if it shouldn't be there? To me being class locked is a limitation. I think dunk duck dodge move and block  are more important combat features than passive evasion statistics and the likes. idk maybe its because I grew up with Counter-Strike Lineage 2 and Diablo that I'm a sucker for action combat but really I think its about time MMOs to move ahead and leave those wretched passive abilities behind. 

"An age of action combat". That's at least the second time you've made that remark and it's fallacious in both cases. There is no "age of action combat". There are MMOs with action combat, there are MMOs with tab based combat. I suspect you're making that statement to give the impression that your view is "the standard" or something. It's pure nonsense, because both setups, and their variations, are equally viable and each has their fans and detractors.

Also, you've repeatedly made the mistake of conflating different systems as being the same thing. Trinity-based roles has nothing to do with whether the combat is action-based or tab-based. They aren't mutually exclusive. Again, it seems you're trying to smuggle your own preferences into your argument as though they're some kind of "default". Basically, you seem to be asserting: "Action = Non-Trinity = Good", "Trinity = Non-Action = Not Good".  Your entire case is undermined by the fact that you're arguing on the basis of a false premise. To add to the mix-up, you're also mixing in the concept of role-specific party mechanics versus non role-specific. You're also mixing in the concept of zerging versus non-zerging. You're mixing all these different concepts together in the same bowl, resulting in a very messy argument.

Trinity vs. non-Trinity relates to roles.

Action vs. Tab-based relates to combat systems.

You can have a non-Trinity tab-based system, just as well as you can have an action-based Trinity system.

In this age with those internet connections I think its more than okay to have the people move away themselves without handholding them and forcing them to rely on passive abilities. Instead of having to click away I have to cross fingers that the RNG would let me evade an impending attack. It really is old and IMO it has to go.

Again with the "age" remarks. Will you get off that? Your preferences - which is all you're discussing here - are not indicative of some pervasive 'new standard' that gaming has passed into, leaving all else behind. There is no "new age". It's an alternative way of approaching something which you happen to prefer over an alternative. There are still people who prefer trinity-based classes, and there are still MMOs out there, and in development, which fit that playstyle.

IMO every class can have a role even without trinity. Zergfests happen even in trinity games, especially if the team is inexperienced All it takes is one bad pull to get things messy. Wait a little bit more and god forbid if the group wipes. Then the fingerpointing happens. And when that happens the amount of "Yo' momma" jokes is too damn high. Which is not a fault of the trinity system i agree. I'm merely stating that trinity system doesn't solve some of the issues you guys give it credit. 

You said it yourself earlier: people will seek the path of least resistance. Zerging is the path of least resistance, for at least 2 reasons:

1. Less moment-to-moment thought and strategy; you just go through your rotation along with those around you. It's victory through brute force. Strength in numbers.

2. It's rather difficult to play a role-specific style in a group where everyone else is more interested in zerging, particularly considering that a role-based system depends as much on the cooperation of your team-mates, as it does on you.

The options are:

• Attempt to form a group where everyone agrees to stick to role-specific play ahead of time
• Attempt to play your specific role effectively in a group stuck in zerg-mode
• Throw your hands up, and just zerg right along with them

Given those options, simply saying "you have  the option to play a specific role if you want", as though that's "The Simple Solution" to the problem is disingenuous. People will do something if they're copelled to do so. GW2, except in perhaps a handful of specific situations, does not compel you to act as a team of specific roles. It leaves it, as you say "optional". And, since people tend to follow the path of least resistance...

In all, I "get" what you're talking about here. You just need to stop making these "age of -whatever-" type remarks, and stop conflating "Trinity vs. Non-Trinity" with "Action vs. Tab-Based".

For myself, I prefer a role-specific system - preferably beyond the "Trinity" that seems to have become the norm. There are other roles that can be specialized in beyond Tanking, Healing and DD. Older MMOs implemented them.

I don't prefer Trinity because, as someone in this thread dishonestly and rather insultingly opined, "I need to be told what my job is". The challenge isn't in "knowing what my job is". The challenge is in doing that job well, reacting to situations appropriately, supporting my team-members, and all else that goes with it.

 

Iceman8235

I like the trinity because I like people having defined roles.  It makes people need one another.  I can't stand it when a game calls itself an MMO and then makes it so every class can do everything and solo the whole way through the game.  It's really not an MMO at that point.  I also like the trinity because I enjoy supporting and helping people and them appreciating it.  It also helps classes feel different instead of every class feeling like a mishmash of everything with a few minor differences.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

Being good and social always meant that as soon as I logged in I got invites to groups. Followed up by tells during my play session asking if I wanted to do dungeon x.

If no one is social, they wont remember if you are good.

 

True .. and it is too much work just to play a game. Oh, it can be done .. i was in a raid guild once, and finding a group wasn't an issue .. but it wasn't fun .. .and limiting.

I would much rather hit a button, get into a pug, and get out without talking to anyone.

 

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

So you readily admit to preferring mindless zerging over strategic well thought out combat? And then you wonder why there are so many bad games out there?

nah ... i can have a strategy on my own .. it is just too much trouble to expect others to coordinate.

And why is the game "bad" when it is fun? D3 has tons of strategies and builds ... and i don't have to coordinate with anyone. Ditto in Marvel Heroes.

nomotag

I could say I hate the trinity, but on reflection I kind of don't. I just kind of find it very static and far too flat well at the same time managing to be way more complex then it should be. I think I might like it if could see some clever stuff done with it.

LachiusTZ

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I would much rather hit a button, get into a pug, and get out without talking to anyone.

 

Sounds like you should not be playing a MMO then . . . 

FelixMajor

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

So you readily admit to preferring mindless zerging over strategic well thought out combat? And then you wonder why there are so many bad games out there?

nah ... i can have a strategy on my own .. it is just too much trouble to expect others to coordinate.

And why is the game "bad" when it is fun? D3 has tons of strategies and builds ... and i don't have to coordinate with anyone. Ditto in Marvel Heroes.

Ugh, you are the exact type of player that has brought MMO's to this brainless explosion of pixels and colours.

Aeonblades

Originally posted by FelixMajor

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Soandsoso

I remember back in my EQ days 14 years ago we discussed how to approach mobs and talked to each other so we were all on the same page...we knew what each other was going to do.

 

Now you join random zerg, gui says you are in a group, and then zerg breaks up and everyone goes on their merry way.

 

yeah .. the second way works way better for me .. i don't have to waste time talking to anyone. The good players should know what to do anyway.

 

So you readily admit to preferring mindless zerging over strategic well thought out combat? And then you wonder why there are so many bad games out there?

nah ... i can have a strategy on my own .. it is just too much trouble to expect others to coordinate.

And why is the game "bad" when it is fun? D3 has tons of strategies and builds ... and i don't have to coordinate with anyone. Ditto in Marvel Heroes.

Ugh, you are the exact type of player that has brought MMO's to this brainless explosion of pixels and colours.

My sentiments exactly. This is why we can't have good games anymore.

BailoPan15

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by BailoPan15

Originally posted by Arclan

Trinity contributes to community. Simple as that. If you have to ask me to explain it then you wouldn't get it even if did.

@Storm said that before you, 2 guys after that debunked it. And since I'm all up for examples, how is the current trinity in WoW doing any community service with all the gear checks and builds and whatnot? IMO this is a fallacy. I've met many people that I dare to call friends in Tyria, while people on this forum would have you believe that you are unable to say a word to anyone because of action combat. 

Your entire post is based around player/character roles in combat, thus the comparisons are based on combat-time interaction. In that context, with action combat, where you're constantly moving, you don't have time to communicate, unless you're on voice chat, which not everyone uses. Hence, people saying that action combat leads to less communication is a pretty fair argument.

Gotta love people that just pick on one post and ignore every other one. Pretty sure I mentioned TeamSpeak multiple times by now. Nothing wrong with that. In fact TeamSpeak makes up for a better chat. You can't express everything with emoticons.

Tab-based combat, where there's less movement (though not necessarily less positioning - there are tab-based combat systems where positioning matters), tend to allow for a bit more time to communicate during battle. Although, it's less notable with newer games where the combat's a bit faster paced.

I somewhat agree but I never said tab based is bad combat or not an action combat.

Wouldn't you agree that in an age of action combat (i get that and acknowledge the fact that some of you hate the action combat!), for those that actually enjoy it, trinity is nothing more than blast from the past? That as if it shouldn't be there? To me being class locked is a limitation. I think dunk duck dodge move and block  are more important combat features than passive evasion statistics and the likes. idk maybe its because I grew up with Counter-Strike Lineage 2 and Diablo that I'm a sucker for action combat but really I think its about time MMOs to move ahead and leave those wretched passive abilities behind. 

"An age of action combat". That's at least the second time you've made that remark and it's fallacious in both cases. There is no "age of action combat". There are MMOs with action combat, there are MMOs with tab based combat. I suspect you're making that statement to give the impression that your view is "the standard" or something. It's pure nonsense, because both setups, and their variations, are equally viable and each has their fans and detractors.

No? Look around. Action combat and "tab based" combat are not mutually exclusive. Gw2 has tab based action combat. Get your facts straight. Also the latest MMOs are ALL with action combat in them of a sort. Even the trinity ones. 

Also, you've repeatedly made the mistake of conflating different systems as being the same thing. Trinity-based roles has nothing to do with whether the combat is action-based or tab-based. They aren't mutually exclusive. Again, it seems you're trying to smuggle your own preferences into your argument as those they're some kind of "default". Bascically, you seem to be asserting: "Action = Non-Trinity = Good", "Trinity = Non-Action = Not Good".  Your entire case is undermined by the fact that you're arguing on the basis of a false premise.

Again, tab based and action based doesn't necessarily mean two different things. 

Trinity vs. non-Trinity relates to roles.

Yes and as I said I'm all up for more hybrid classes. That would let you adjust yourself for the encounter. I know it sounds complex and a choir, but it really is fun. Tinkering with all those underlying systems, figuring out the synergies the different skills have.

Action vs. Tab-based relates to combat systems.

Again, not mutually exclusive, you can have both, Gw2 does well with that. I can fight without ever having a target, and I can span TAB like a crazy monkey and still do kills. You should really look into it. Infact its so viable that there is a user mod that only does inject a crosshair in the rendering pipeline so you can stop targetting and just shoot people  

You can have a non-Trinity tab-based system, just as well as you can have an action-based Trinity system.

Give me one good example beside TERA which I already said has the best trinity system yet. Which game doesn't gimp me for being a DPS. Can I duck, dive, dodge, jump over and move away of an heavy attack without getting hit in the face from 50m radius? Can I outrun the mobs chasing me? Yeah, I think not. Hell most trinity games are so focused on the trinity and the encounters they offer that you can't even jump around to use the terrain as your advantage. WildStar and Gw2 at least execute this perfectly. Both are very jumper friendly and you don't have the jump only for the sake of jumping, in the case of WoW and so many others.

In this age with those internet connections I think its more than okay to have the people move away themselves without handholding them and forcing them to rely on passive abilities. Instead of having to click away I have to cross fingers that the RNG would let me evade an impending attack. It really is old and IMO it has to go.

Again with the "age" remarks. Will you get off that? Your preferences - which is all you're discussing here - are not indicative of some pervasive 'new standard' that gaming has passed into, leaving all else behind. It's an alternative way of approaching something which you happen to prefer over an alternative. There are still people who prefer trinity-based classes, and there are still MMOs out there, and in development, which fit that playstyle.

I've raised my opinion, my examples and I've already asked "What If". Nobody has answered to that yet I just get the occasional attacks and the memorized catchphrases. There are some good posts though! 

IMO every class can have a role even without trinity. Zergfests happen even in trinity games, especially if the team is inexperienced All it takes is one bad pull to get things messy. Wait a little bit more and god forbid if the group wipes. Then the fingerpointing happens. And when that happens the amount of "Yo' momma" jokes is too damn high. Which is not a fault of the trinity system i agree. I'm merely stating that trinity system doesn't solve some of the issues you guys give it credit. 

You said it yourself earlier: people will seek the path of least resistance. Zerging is the path of least resistance, for at least 2 reasons:

1. Less moment-to-moment thought and strategy; you just go through your rotation along with those around you.

Since everyone wants to use Gw2 and Gw2-only as the non-trinity example, lets use it again, what the hell. Please, be my guest and go zerk Tequatl or the great jungle wurm. And I really mean it... like ... get your berserker's gear (LOL), berserker food and the class of your picking and go bang on Taco. See how successful that is. Although if you cared to read my previous posts I do admit that Gw2 doesn't have the best non-trinity system. I would much rather see smart encounters with mini-events that require some thought process. Not just tank-and-spank. Or in Gw2's dungeons case, zerking the hell of it. 

2. It's rather difficult to play a role-specific style in a group where everyone else is more interested in zerging, particularly considering that a role-based system depends as much on the cooperation of your team-mates, as it does on you.

The options are:

• Attempt to form a group where everyone agrees to stick to role-specific play ahead of time
• Attempt to play your specific role effectively in a group stuck in zerg-mode
• Throw your hands up, and just zerg right along with them

Given those options, simply saying "you have  the option to play a specific role if you want", as though that's "The Simple Solution" to the problem is disingenuous. People will do something if they're copelled to do so. GW2, except in perhaps a handful of specific situations, does not compel you to act as a team of specific roles. It leaves it, as you say "optional". And, since people tend to follow the path of least resistance...

 

At least you have the option of NOT waiting in a queue for 40 minutes if you have chosen to berserk. That is a huge win in my eyes. 

 

 

 

In all, I "get" what you're talking about here. You just need to stop making these "age of -whatever-" type remarks, and stop conflating "Trinity vs. Non-Trinity" with "Action vs. Tab-Based".

 

I firmly believe and there is real example of Action AND tab-based co-existing in a game. To me its action when my actions matter. How I go about my opponent is an afterthought really. If I get falcon punched in the face from a 50m radius, well that's a problem. And honestly this is mostly observable in trinity games because the devs go the lazy route and just expect you to bring somekind of healer with you. That should take care of the falcon punch right? Infact, you don't really have to position yourself this way! YAY! 

 

 

 

BailoPan15

Originally posted by Iceman8235
I like the trinity because I like people having defined roles.  It makes people need one another.  I can't stand it when a game calls itself an MMO and then makes it so every class can do everything and solo the whole way through the game.  It's really not an MMO at that point.  I also like the trinity because I enjoy supporting and helping people and them appreciating it.  It also helps classes feel different instead of every class feeling like a mishmash of everything with a few minor differences.

Woah. How are you any different than the tank right next to you? Hell, most trinity games are gear treadmills, and for that you'll probably look just like the tank next to you. In non-trinity games there's at least something called builds and you can do one on your own. I actually prefer that and consider people taking builds off of the internet a bunch of noobs. No offense