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So Why Do You Want Trinity?
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You seem to know where to find all of the guides on the internet and where to find specific builds. That is kind of funny coming from a guy show just a few pages back in this thread stated, "I actually prefer that and consider people taking builds off of the internet a bunch of noobs." I guess you must be a noob........
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
For me I want the trinity-plus and the reason is:
When I want to heal, that is what I want to do, I don't want to worry about doing a lot of damage.
When I want to tank that is what I want to do, I want to hold that target in place and absorb the damage for my group.
When I want to dps that is what I want to do, I want to put out the big damage but I dont want to worry about healing.
And there are times I like just controlling the scene with cc skills or just doing debufffs.
So give me the trintiy and give a few extra roles along with it.
How does the traditional "trinity" work versus the more emergent or scaled-intellegent AI?
How does the tank gain aggro with a "mob" that doesn't want to be hoodwinked into fighting a heavy-armored warrior?
Were there times in theme park mmo's like WoW in which a team of players weren't able to fight using the traditional trinity method? Yes. Was this eventually overcome without a "zerged" approach? Yes.
The future of some of our upcoming mmo's headed toward the 2020's may change the way we approach team/group content, I dare say.
Forward we go, backward we remember.
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Well, with me its exactly the other way around, playing GW2 for over nine monehs made me realise how important the trinity tactical layer is to make combat more structured... Problem with Gw2 is they removed a tactical group layer, that was responsible for group cohesion, with nothing to replace it....
i think the perfect game will be somewhere in the middle of what Gw2 is trying and the oldfsshioned hard trinnity. But in every bossfight, there need to be some tactical group cohesion, that forcess people to play together and crack the fight, and not just spam their elitist single player skills...
a good way would be to add it in th AI, the more intelligent a creature, the harder they will be to taunt.... Intelligent creatures might go for those who heal the ennemy most..... While the very stupid creatures might go for those putting the most hurt on them, but never for the healer...
they should add true healers..... And add another condition, that taunts NPCs, and works like swtor taunt in PvP...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Agreed, more tactics would be necessary. I can see the use of more "CC" type spells or moves in order to isolate a grouped encounter. My question, then would be how would a guardian, plate wearer change from the traditional "grab aggro through taunt" to a truly more group defensive posture? This is of course, if the mmo had more intelligent AI focused more on self-perservation and liquidation of the more immediate damage threat.
How might new tactics eventually morph the trinity in future mmo's, I wonder?
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
It depends, easy world bosses are nothing more then a grindfest for easy loot but go and play SPVP or TPVP and say that GW2 has nothing to do with skills. I would love to see the Trinity do it's job on Tequatl or three headed jungle wurm.
GW2 is quite casual if you want it to be just like wow but this has nothing to do with the trinity and alot of people here are confusing action combat and the non-trinity as the same just because GW2 is based this way.
Well I'm community involved and this website pops out every now and then at reddit. Go figure how I know about it. But pick any of those builds and lets 1on1 and see about that last sentence of yours
...and often offering an alternative to the stale aggro-based combat, replacing the trinity - the taunt-based tank and related mob mechanics - with different combat aspects on both sides of the battle such as (but not limited to) positioning, collision detection, recon/intel, logical threat-based aggro, and dynamic spawning.
See: Asheron's Call, EVE Online, Puzzle Pirates, Ultima Online
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
To the OP, Trinity implies specialization, something we all do on our daily life, no all can be doctors, no all like to be doctors, no all can be engineers, no all like to be engineer. When you remove Trinity you remove colors from the spectrum and you are left with black and white.
Trinity gives flavor to the game, even with 3 type of players, Tank, DPS and healer, there are a gazillion ways to setup your character according with your style or the way you like your character to be.
No Trinity is in a way like socialism, we all get pay the same for the same amount of hours no matter what we do. What is the incentive?
With Trinity even the drops play a bigger roll, you can get items specialized for your particular roll. etc etc etc, I am just repeating what we all very well know.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
No one is talking about eliminate them, right? Just make them optional.
Guilty as charged. I haven't really played skill based games but have read a lot about them on the forums. If I find time I'll check out your link.
Well, I've no doubt the system *could* be cool but have a feeling everyone picks pretty much DPS with a little self healing. More DPS = less need for healing, seems like a logical formula to me. Otherwise known as zergfest.
Indeed. Very well said.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
So in real life this means that you pick your trade at 18 years old and have to stick with it for the rest of your life cause you can't know two trades at the same time, more like forced communism at it's worst somewhat like north Korea but hey maybe they like the way there living, I prefer Democracy
.
Now I am not against the trinity I would say that I am more against the traditional combat and that makes the trinity very boaring, atleast in world of warcraft were you first wait 15 min to get a group as dps and then just stand around and spam your best skills. However the tank is the only one who really has a tough job to do. I used to play a healer in wow and raiding in wow included watch TV-series at the same time as a healer and this is boaring. Raids or only hard and fun in the beginning until you are fully geared up then it's just a grind for more loot which is dull, same with any game including GW2 except for the gearing up part since you don't really need that for normal dungeons in GW2.
Dungeons in GW2 I play a healing class ( Gaurdian ) mostly and it's much more active, you can't just sit around you have to be on your tows at all time, BUT dungeons in GW2 are really to easy and thats the big problem. If dungeons in GW2 were harder then we would see much more defined rolls in that game aswell even if they have "no trinity".
But even if the dungeons were to get harder you would still not find a tank in gw2 only a healer is my guess. Dungeons in GW2 may look like a zergfest if you watch youtube but there are quite a few dungeons that you don't see zerkers do and thats because they are really hard for them and takes time.
I like the non-trinity that GW2 offers but I do feel that GW2 non-trinity still has trinity in many ways. The drops in GW2 doesn't play a big roll since the game is not gearbased as most mmos are and this I really like cause then everyone gets a crack at all content and it's for fun for the general mass of the game. You get tokens in GW2 that you can buy your gear for with whatever stats you like (almost).
Well it is you who sees the world as black and white. Are you implying that a well-renown doctor understands nothing from cars but decided to go as doctor because he likes to help people and frankly it just pays better than car repairman? I'm a software engineer but I occasionally find myself doing DBA and server administration work and load balancing and routine checks. I'm also good with hardware and do replacements myself. I also love riding my bike. See, I'm not *just* a software dev
Gazillion ways to setup your character but ultimately just one role and one role only. I have yet to see a DPSing healer or a healing tank or tanking DPS. With exception of TERA. Warriors can tank there and berserker have a decent block abilities. But I already said TERA has the best trinity setup of all trinity games. Its almost as if it is soft trinity
How is non-trinity like socialism? I see you hint at Gw2's drop system, you do realize that even though you get separate drop, I can have a precursor as drop and you can get a white junk from the same loot bag right? Either I don't understand the paragraph or you are so deep in fallacy you are really lying to yourself.
I don't see how drop distribution plays a role in trinity vs non-trinity setups. You can implement the diceroll on the drops just as well in a non-trinity game. Just because Gw2 doesn't do it, doesn't mean it is impossible. On the contrary...
Ultimately, what I've been trying to say is that we need non-enforced trinity. Have those roles, that is fine. Don't enforce people to use certain classes to pass content. That's a nasty slippery slope. Instead reward people being good at the game.
OP,
After reading some of the replies of posters, and your counter-replies (and guadually belittling posters who do not sound offensive at all), I am no longer interested in giving a reason to support the title.
Simply put, YOU WANT.
There is not need to make it sounds so nice, asking for other people opinions, only to tell other posters whose opinions differ - "ONLY MY OPINION MATTERS".
Just like how trinity gamers want to have trinity games, non-trinity gamers want to have non-trinity games. Humans are born selfish, and only want what is needed. It is not difficult to understand this. And when other posters offer their reasons, listen.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Pretty sure he said that I see the world in black and white. I defended myself, I don't see an issue with that. The fact that you guys can't give a opinion different than "trinity gives purpose" says more than enough really. Or "non-trinity is chaos and zergfest" while I clearly point out time and time again that this is NOT true....speaking of selfishness.
All my argument is about smarter encounters where people are not class locked. Idk in MY mind trinity is like in-game racism or sexism. Same for gender-locked classes in some recent MMOs (E.g. Black Desert). Unleash the people, let them play what they want.
I'm all up for harder games, games that doesn't have endgame players in the first 72 hours (E.g. TESO), but what I don't want is making an alt character or a "sub-class" just because I dared to switch roles.
I PERSONALLY don't see how a smart designed encounters throughout the whole game are worse than having a trinity and none of your opinions so far made me realize why is trinity needed. At best its personal preference because you don't know better and/or lazyness.
I wanted you people to give examples to defend your statements. Not just pull up a remembered catchphrase that you do in all previous threads. NOBODY gave examples. What you guys did is spit at Gw2, as if it is the holy grail of non-trinity MMOs. Sure maybe it is for me but i do see its faults and acknowledge them and that is why I actually suggest ideas that are currently in no games.
You can't judge me for freaking out when you give faulty opinions. You say that non-trinity is a zergfest but that's far from the truth.
Maybe its true. It's true that people don't know what they want. The majority of people that is. I know what I want. And someday when you get the perfect thought out non-trinity game (perhaps maybe EQ:Next), do remember of this thread and how stubborn you were in the face of change. I know change is frightening, but maybe if you give it a chance it won't be.
Sooner or later we'll get there, whether you want it or not. If nothing else devs will spew non-trinity games JUST so they could be different. WildStar, TESO and every other trinity themepark or sandbox is prone to fail. Just because people have had enough of it. It's the same at every turn. The only exception is Gw2, and I'm sure many devs will aim at that in the near future.
/thread off
I think that would be a fitting end, you just proved that you see it in black and white.
Wonder if you read more than 5 letters in my post before commenting.
Maybe you are the one that should read your own posts, I don't see any shades of grey in that post of yours.
I have to agree here, the post quoted basically says "I like non-trinity. You like trinity. These are opinions, but yours is wrong and mine is right."
That's not the way it works. I like defined roles, not a hard trinity (as in 3 basic roles), but defined still. I don't think players should, on a whim, change the entire purpose of their character. I think respeccing should be possible, but it should be something that isn't done every other day. One major specialization, another minor one. That's the ideal situation for me.
And that's an opinion. So I won't tell you that you're wrong and I'm right. It's what I like, not what you like.
Lol.. that's not what he said at all.. He said that non-trinity is not worse than trinity. He never said it was better. He was also saying that ppls arguments for why non trinity sucks are invalid.. He never said that they didn't have a right to their preferences... yeah.... maybe ppl should learn some reading comprehension.
Reread the highlighted part. He says that, regardless of other posters' opinions, trinity is going to die and MMOs with trinity are "prone to failure" simply because they have the trinity, and MMO developers will inevitably, even begrudgingly ("just to be different"), begin creating non-trinity games. If that's not implying non-trinity is superior, I don't know what is.
He also states in that post that a game mechanic (defined roles) is akin to racism. He tells the other posters their opinions are "faulty". Not sure what part of that I'm supposed to take as, "Okay, that's your opinion and I respect it. Here's mine."
You are right he only said that all the heathens shall see the light when a real non trinity game will be made.
He didn't say it was because trinity sucks.. He said it was because its been done by almost every mmo in existence.. it's called fatigue...
Lol.. faulty isn't their choice of combat system... it was their reasoning as to why non-trinity sucks.. If an opinion is based on false facts.. then of course that opinion is faulty.. your feelings aren't wrong they can't be... but the facts you use to justify them can and often will be wrong.
maybe racism is too harsh a word.. but never the less.. trinity combat does create bias that borders on the fanatical.. just as ppl here and in other forums love to label dps players as lower form of player because the only type of character they play is dps... that is definitely bias.. and some of these biased ppl take it to the extreme..... dps guys are a dime a dozen.. only ppl who can't learn how to play mmos play a dps character.. I've heard it all. bias and prejudice permeates the mmo industry.. especially on this site.