Just like to say thanks to this writer and the other guy that mentioned "mini-review" (probably mine) and all you talk about are the quests? I really thinks it quite sad that you'd rather listen to the little voices in your head than what I had said throughout my post.
The game is fundamentally flawed...it's not a questing thing....it's flawed in ALL aspects. Even the so-called "good parts" (didnt experience these) require you to dump cash into them via the cash shop....that was evident about 15 minutes into playing when I tried to mine some ore and found that I didnt have enough "labor points"....or how fast mana dissapears....money grab Asian grinder with boats....yay.....
I have heard that it is tough to burn through all the labor points if you are a subscription player. I don't like the idea of labor points but if you can sub and not run out they are really a non issue.
I don't see a lot of other MMO's out there with this feature list. This is where AA has the trump card. What else are you going to play (other than Darkfall and Eve...love Darkfall and still play) if you don't like the typical linear quest hub themepark? I have the option to do other things in AA, I don't have a whole lot of options in a game like WS. We can cry about labor points but what is the alternative. I find the alternatives to be much worse.
I would agree with those that complain that all the good stuff is at "endgame". But look at the feature list. It isn't just more quests and raiding at "endgame". I will gladly suffer through the tutorial, or leveling process in order to get to these rarely visited features in recent MMO's.
Because what the majority of players have been trained to do for the last 10 years is follow this
!
I read these "mini ArcheAge reviews" posts where players are giving ArcheAge like 3/10 and just cringe how utterly ignorant they are about the real game that they completely missed.
But the game is NOT for an individual solo quester - ArcheAge is a guild game, a social game at heart - so your average MMO solo player who plays along other players but never actively *with* other players would not really see the real game anyway.
Not so much the quests themselves as to their delivery. Repetitious and uninspired. Quests should be based on faction. If an NPC does not know you, why would they enlist you to help them? This is the standard flaw of most all MMORPGs. Your race, profession and your actions should change your experience to some degree. I appreciate what they have going on beyond their standard array of quests. The crafting, farming, sailing and trade system. But the world feels hollow. Just the same copy, pasted over and over with minor differences when it comes to their quests. And grinding is much more time consuming than it should be to put emphasis on questing. In essence, you are practically forced to quest for stars to get many of the other things like a house, farm etc. that are part of the deeper game.
I am not a fan of the cash shop model. Especially when you can use it to purchase important crafting components. Thats a clear P2W type of thing. If you are a subscriber, people dumping cash into the cash shop should not have an advantage over you. Nor should the game be overtly difficult/time consuming/rare to make items in said cash shop almost a necessity.
I am all for games that can't be maxed out in 6 months. But I also don't have 10 hours a day to devote to them either.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
You know Bill this is one of your best article. That's exactly what I was worried about. While people are discussing to death about the Labor Points and the lack of Archeum Dust in the Economy, i believe that the biggest threat to Archeage success is the risk that players might think that this is just another WoW clone. Well spotted
It's too bad all this depth I keep hearing about is hidden behind a (imho) horribly boring combat system. Tab targeting... ech.
The rest of the game might be amazing, but if a major component (the combat) isn't interesting, I don't see myself actually playing long-term.
TRION's approach to F2P monetization however... that's enough to send me running to another title. *shudders thinking about the BiS gear in Rift's cash shop*
And I am telling you, this isn't going to work. You talk like the ones at the top are going to get there and just stop developing and wait for everyone else. No, they will continue to grow too, but they will grow faster. F2P players will never be able to catch up.
But I really never cared what happens to the F2P population. I am talking about the subscribers who will be in the same boat.
Exactly. As a long, long-time subscriber to Rift, I was ROYALLY pissed when they introduced best-in-slot rings in the cash shop. Rings that were better than what was available raiding. They'll take your sub money while constantly nickle and diming you to buy shit off the cash shop. Even with a subscription.
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
Charging a sub for full access is NOT equivalent to charging a sub, THEN charging for bag space/labor points/gear/whatever else. That's the gouging I was referring to.
Until around level 10, you quest to learn the basic dynamics of this type of game (RPG). From level 15 to 20-25, you quest to learn the specific mechanics of this game (farming, trading, crafting, gathering, ships, housing, combination effects of different attack skills, coin system). Around 30-35, to force you to travel to the land of the enemy faction (it is mainly a PvP game) and get yourself accustomed to be one-hit owned in the back while questing. Around 35-40, to learn how a party works in dungeons and their roles in groups. Beyond that, there is nothing basic stuff to learn except all the things you can do within guilds.
You will be amazed by the number of people that is not fully proficient with above dynamics. I guess they have not played an RPG before. So, I do not think that the quest line is something that should be erased. Although, ArchAge could have done the same with fewer levels.
I'm not defending Trion. I don't give a rats ass who makes the game. It's just a game. I play or don't play based on my whims, not theirs.
Like many have said before, if you want a game that suits your needs exactly, you'll need to make it yourself. Otherwise, you have to accept the fact that you can only get intermittent wipers with the air conditioning package.
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
You should care. You will care.......when you realize that this game isn't like GW2 where you will eventually catch up just by playing. There are resources to hold control. The name of this game will be multiple accounts.
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
You should care. You will care.......when you realize that this game isn't like GW2 where you will eventually catch up just by playing. There are resources to hold control. The name of this game will be multiple accounts.
Exactly and it is Trion & XLgames that is forcing players to take this action by not changing the Labor point system.
"I’m willing to bet that the number of people who saw the true nature of ArcheAge is very few."
You said that a couple of times, yet you fail to convince me. How did you get to see it yourself, Bill? Talk to us about your experience, man.
I'm thinking about that quote. What does that really mean? Let's put aside the idea that I haven't seen the true nature of ArchAge and ask what Bill is trying to say here. In the context he is saying it, it's a euphemistic way of saying "It doesn't get good until level <magic quantum leap number>.
Many of you gamers are fickle, and its hard for me to imagine you will ever find a game you will actually enjoy. If you dont have the patience to go through simple questing to be introduced to the complexity of the game then AA is not going to be for you. But saying the game is horrible/will fail/sucks/etc is just silly.
I actually hope this game filters those type of players and the community stays small. It doesnt need to be the biggest game on the planet or have millions of subscribers. I'd much rather prefer a consistent set of players who interact (for good or bad) which is where longevity will come for me.
Originally posted by bliss14 It is so quick to level up and get to the good stuff. Doing the quests to get the feel of the game is fine, to me.
Please tell me this game isn't another one where everything prior to level cap/end game is boring filler just to get you through, and then they put all the "real content" at the end.
If that's the case, then you can add that to the list of "things people have been taught to do for the past 10 years". Along with !'s and circles, and markers and arrows and lines guiding you everywhere, "instanced everything" keeping players apart, rather than bringing them together, and the ability to practically solo almost the entire game before ever having to even speak to another player, this thing about holding off all the better content 'til the end has been one of the worst, most undermining wrong-turns MMO developers have taken, demonstrating that they completely missed the point of what a MMO is, and what it isn't. What it isn't, is a freaking solo race to the finish line.
This whole idea of "the end game being where all the good stuff is" is another bullet in the foot that this genre has taken repeatedly over the years. The entire game is supposed to be "the good stuff". Not just "what comes at the end".
If they seriously followed the "just get them to level cap 'cause that's where the real game starts" approach, then it seems the folks behind Archeage have missed the point as well.
So, if someone could please set my mind at ease, and tell me that what bliss14 describes is just their own take on the game, and not really how it's setup, that would be amazing. Everything (well almost everything) I've seen and heard up to this point has sounded great... but if the game is really set up in the "race to the end where the "real game" starts..." manner, then I'll give it a pass.
You can pretty much get my view on MMOs in my signature, and in my quote under my avatar.. That's really how I approach MMOs. You can also probably imagine how tough it's been to find a "modern" MMO that's fit that philosophy .
I can tell you as an alpha player that its not that. I really don't know why most of you get so worked up over a game. There are quests in the game. There function is to introduce you to the game mechanics. The game is deeper then what you can experience in a beta weekend (and I think thats the challenge Trion is dealing with -- how do you showcase a deep game in 72 hours?)
There is nothing in the game that says "you MUST quest" -- You are free to do whatever the hell you want when you want. It makes sense to do the early quests to get your FREE glider, mount, and early gear.
What I see are people who are going to skip the quests and then complain when they dont understand how to do things... well at least until the Internet guides will be posted.
I find the game entertaining at the moment. I have to see how the PvP plays out in the end and that will determine if I stick around long term or not. Looking positive right now.
Because what the majority of players have been trained to do for the last 10 years is follow this
!
I read these "mini ArcheAge reviews" posts where players are giving ArcheAge like 3/10 and just cringe how utterly ignorant they are about the real game that they completely missed.
But the game is NOT for an individual solo quester - ArcheAge is a guild game, a social game at heart - so your average MMO solo player who plays along other players but never actively *with* other players would not really see the real game anyway.
I hope you are correct about the social aspects of ArcheAge..my wife and I have been searching for a game with social/casual aspects for more than a few years now.
It is people that make the social aspect of the game, not the MMO. Players are now trained not to interact in any way. AA can do what it likes, it will not be able to climb that mountain.
You can't overturn more than a decades worth of training players into a solo mentality with a few gaming systems.
If you want social go guilds, they have helped keep the community alive where as MMO design has lazily drifted into doing its very best to kill it.
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
You should care. You will care.......when you realize that this game isn't like GW2 where you will eventually catch up just by playing. There are resources to hold control. The name of this game will be multiple accounts.
Holding resources doesn't mean there isn't a power plateau. Holding resources doesn't mean you can't get your hands on that resource, it just means he who holds it controls the market for it. If this is the argument for P2W it really doesn't go far in and of itself. These systems can create all kinds of emergent game-play. The power you speak of is more in a group than it is in individual standing.
You can't have a sandbox environment with this mentality, it requires resourcefulness in those playing, as well as socialization, you can't think on individual levels of power. These perks will be widespread on either side of a conflict, it balances itself out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It is people that make the social aspect of the game, not the MMO. Players are now trained not to interact in any way. AA can do what it likes, it will not be able to climb that mountain.
You can't overturn more than a decades worth of training players into a solo mentality with a few gaming systems.
If you want social go guilds, they have helped keep the community alive where as MMO design has lazily drifted into doing its very best to kill it.
^^Sad but true !
Many players in AA will grind all the way to level-cap while "waiting for the fun to start". At level-cap, they'll quit in disgust because the fun never started.
Other players will get involved in the guild vs guild PVP meta-game from level 1 and realise that the fun starts when you want it to.
Others will sell their first harvest on the AH and immediately forget about grinding quests or PVP'ing and just start playing the market...
AA is far from a guild game, except for the fact that you are going to be needing a guild.
Im referring to the absolute lack of guild features.
I agree with the quests, they are boring and really shouldnt have been implemented.
You do have to do the quests to like level 15, to get your free mount and glider etc. but after that you can level without touching a quest again. The problem is that by level 5-6, you will be bored out of your scull...
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
You should care. You will care.......when you realize that this game isn't like GW2 where you will eventually catch up just by playing. There are resources to hold control. The name of this game will be multiple accounts.
Holding resources doesn't mean there isn't a power plateau. Holding resources doesn't mean you can't get your hands on that resource, it just means he who holds it controls the market for it. If this is the argument for P2W it really doesn't go far in and of itself. These systems can create all kinds of emergent game-play. The power you speak of is more in a group than it is in individual standing.
You can't have a sandbox environment with this mentality, it requires resourcefulness in those playing, as well as socialization, you can't think on individual levels of power. These perks will be widespread on either side of a conflict, it balances itself out.
Again, whatever "power plateau" is reached by holding resources is still going to be higher then the "power plateau" of those without resources.
Your arguments are vague and based on rare possibilities. But they will be the exception and not the rule. You are talking about individual battles, I am talking about consistency in the overall flow of the game itself.
Your argument for what may be possible from time to time won't change the reality, that the seats of power among the player base will be held by those with multiple subscription accounts and who spend above average amounts of money in the cash shop every month.
And if it ever comes to pass where those who hold resources can get their accounts subsidized by other players (PLEX / CREDD) Then the top power players become even more solidified.
Comments
I have heard that it is tough to burn through all the labor points if you are a subscription player. I don't like the idea of labor points but if you can sub and not run out they are really a non issue.
I don't see a lot of other MMO's out there with this feature list. This is where AA has the trump card. What else are you going to play (other than Darkfall and Eve...love Darkfall and still play) if you don't like the typical linear quest hub themepark? I have the option to do other things in AA, I don't have a whole lot of options in a game like WS. We can cry about labor points but what is the alternative. I find the alternatives to be much worse.
I would agree with those that complain that all the good stuff is at "endgame". But look at the feature list. It isn't just more quests and raiding at "endgame". I will gladly suffer through the tutorial, or leveling process in order to get to these rarely visited features in recent MMO's.
You're confusing individual taste with ignorance.
I love how the interface and everything else looks exactly like the other 1 million asian mmo's.
In western mmo's there is always a new feeling when trying a new mmo. In asian mmos its "havent I already played this?"
Not so much the quests themselves as to their delivery. Repetitious and uninspired. Quests should be based on faction. If an NPC does not know you, why would they enlist you to help them? This is the standard flaw of most all MMORPGs. Your race, profession and your actions should change your experience to some degree. I appreciate what they have going on beyond their standard array of quests. The crafting, farming, sailing and trade system. But the world feels hollow. Just the same copy, pasted over and over with minor differences when it comes to their quests. And grinding is much more time consuming than it should be to put emphasis on questing. In essence, you are practically forced to quest for stars to get many of the other things like a house, farm etc. that are part of the deeper game.
I am not a fan of the cash shop model. Especially when you can use it to purchase important crafting components. Thats a clear P2W type of thing. If you are a subscriber, people dumping cash into the cash shop should not have an advantage over you. Nor should the game be overtly difficult/time consuming/rare to make items in said cash shop almost a necessity.
I am all for games that can't be maxed out in 6 months. But I also don't have 10 hours a day to devote to them either.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
That's exactly what I was worried about. While people are discussing to death about the Labor Points and the lack of Archeum Dust in the Economy, i believe that the biggest threat to Archeage success is the risk that players might think that this is just another WoW clone.
Well spotted
It's too bad all this depth I keep hearing about is hidden behind a (imho) horribly boring combat system. Tab targeting... ech.
The rest of the game might be amazing, but if a major component (the combat) isn't interesting, I don't see myself actually playing long-term.
TRION's approach to F2P monetization however... that's enough to send me running to another title. *shudders thinking about the BiS gear in Rift's cash shop*
Exactly. As a long, long-time subscriber to Rift, I was ROYALLY pissed when they introduced best-in-slot rings in the cash shop. Rings that were better than what was available raiding. They'll take your sub money while constantly nickle and diming you to buy shit off the cash shop. Even with a subscription.
TRION won't get another red cent from me!
What is it with all this "advantage over you" talk? I mean really, there hasn't been a game YET, that hasn't given someone else the advantage over you is some respect or another. It's a GIVEN that there will be some sort of an imbalance. Who the hell cares that Joe Schmo hits max level first? Or maxes crafting first? Or corners the market on x first? These people never play for the long haul. They get bored to death having it all FIRST and leave.
Trion didn't make the game. They are merely marketing it here. They have no more control over the game than any porting team does when they convert platforms. Trion CAN'T make the changes you're screaming for. If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. It's not a Trion game. Don't assume it will follow other Trion games in any aspect whatsoever. XLGames is directing the show. It's their baby. It's their baby in the east. And it's still their baby in the west.
TRION has enormous influence as the publisher. And yes, they have influence over their financial approach in THIS market.
But by all means, place your faith in a company known for bleeding it's most dedicated player base dry.
Charging a sub for full access is NOT equivalent to charging a sub, THEN charging for bag space/labor points/gear/whatever else. That's the gouging I was referring to.
No thanks.
Until around level 10, you quest to learn the basic dynamics of this type of game (RPG). From level 15 to 20-25, you quest to learn the specific mechanics of this game (farming, trading, crafting, gathering, ships, housing, combination effects of different attack skills, coin system). Around 30-35, to force you to travel to the land of the enemy faction (it is mainly a PvP game) and get yourself accustomed to be one-hit owned in the back while questing. Around 35-40, to learn how a party works in dungeons and their roles in groups. Beyond that, there is nothing basic stuff to learn except all the things you can do within guilds.
You will be amazed by the number of people that is not fully proficient with above dynamics. I guess they have not played an RPG before. So, I do not think that the quest line is something that should be erased. Although, ArchAge could have done the same with fewer levels.
^.^'
I'm not defending Trion. I don't give a rats ass who makes the game. It's just a game. I play or don't play based on my whims, not theirs.
Like many have said before, if you want a game that suits your needs exactly, you'll need to make it yourself. Otherwise, you have to accept the fact that you can only get intermittent wipers with the air conditioning package.
You should care. You will care.......when you realize that this game isn't like GW2 where you will eventually catch up just by playing. There are resources to hold control. The name of this game will be multiple accounts.
Exactly and it is Trion & XLgames that is forcing players to take this action by not changing the Labor point system.
"I’m willing to bet that the number of people who saw the true nature of ArcheAge is very few."
You said that a couple of times, yet you fail to convince me. How did you get to see it yourself, Bill? Talk to us about your experience, man.
I'm thinking about that quote. What does that really mean? Let's put aside the idea that I haven't seen the true nature of ArchAge and ask what Bill is trying to say here. In the context he is saying it, it's a euphemistic way of saying "It doesn't get good until level <magic quantum leap number>.
Many of you gamers are fickle, and its hard for me to imagine you will ever find a game you will actually enjoy. If you dont have the patience to go through simple questing to be introduced to the complexity of the game then AA is not going to be for you. But saying the game is horrible/will fail/sucks/etc is just silly.
I actually hope this game filters those type of players and the community stays small. It doesnt need to be the biggest game on the planet or have millions of subscribers. I'd much rather prefer a consistent set of players who interact (for good or bad) which is where longevity will come for me.
I can tell you as an alpha player that its not that. I really don't know why most of you get so worked up over a game. There are quests in the game. There function is to introduce you to the game mechanics. The game is deeper then what you can experience in a beta weekend (and I think thats the challenge Trion is dealing with -- how do you showcase a deep game in 72 hours?)
There is nothing in the game that says "you MUST quest" -- You are free to do whatever the hell you want when you want. It makes sense to do the early quests to get your FREE glider, mount, and early gear.
What I see are people who are going to skip the quests and then complain when they dont understand how to do things... well at least until the Internet guides will be posted.
I find the game entertaining at the moment. I have to see how the PvP plays out in the end and that will determine if I stick around long term or not. Looking positive right now.
I hope you are correct about the social aspects of ArcheAge..my wife and I have been searching for a game with social/casual aspects for more than a few years now.
It is people that make the social aspect of the game, not the MMO. Players are now trained not to interact in any way. AA can do what it likes, it will not be able to climb that mountain.
You can't overturn more than a decades worth of training players into a solo mentality with a few gaming systems.
If you want social go guilds, they have helped keep the community alive where as MMO design has lazily drifted into doing its very best to kill it.
Holding resources doesn't mean there isn't a power plateau. Holding resources doesn't mean you can't get your hands on that resource, it just means he who holds it controls the market for it. If this is the argument for P2W it really doesn't go far in and of itself. These systems can create all kinds of emergent game-play. The power you speak of is more in a group than it is in individual standing.
You can't have a sandbox environment with this mentality, it requires resourcefulness in those playing, as well as socialization, you can't think on individual levels of power. These perks will be widespread on either side of a conflict, it balances itself out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
^^Sad but true !
Many players in AA will grind all the way to level-cap while "waiting for the fun to start". At level-cap, they'll quit in disgust because the fun never started.
Other players will get involved in the guild vs guild PVP meta-game from level 1 and realise that the fun starts when you want it to.
Others will sell their first harvest on the AH and immediately forget about grinding quests or PVP'ing and just start playing the market...
AA is far from a guild game, except for the fact that you are going to be needing a guild.
Im referring to the absolute lack of guild features.
I agree with the quests, they are boring and really shouldnt have been implemented.
You do have to do the quests to like level 15, to get your free mount and glider etc. but after that you can level without touching a quest again. The problem is that by level 5-6, you will be bored out of your scull...
Again, whatever "power plateau" is reached by holding resources is still going to be higher then the "power plateau" of those without resources.
Your arguments are vague and based on rare possibilities. But they will be the exception and not the rule. You are talking about individual battles, I am talking about consistency in the overall flow of the game itself.
Your argument for what may be possible from time to time won't change the reality, that the seats of power among the player base will be held by those with multiple subscription accounts and who spend above average amounts of money in the cash shop every month.
And if it ever comes to pass where those who hold resources can get their accounts subsidized by other players (PLEX / CREDD) Then the top power players become even more solidified.