After seeing what Square has done with FFXIV, I have to say that no MMO should ever truly "die" unless it's just ancient. And even then it should be given a F2P redux or released to the public so that it can live on and give gamers pleasant nostalgic gaming homes to return to. But again, with FFXIV showing it can be done, MMOs can have 9 lives, it just takes a willing developer/publisher to do so. Would love to see Warhammer revamped, that game had so much potential.
Originally posted by EnterTheWombat Forget Vanguard. Why no mention of Dark and Light...............;)
Because D&L was an abomination. More of a scam masquerading as an MMO. The only list it deserves to be in, is one that starts with "Worst MMOs of all time."
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Charts... How do they work. Those of us who can read can explain it if you need.
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
Against this backdrop there were at least 2 and maybe 3 server merges (25 to 13, 13 to 6, and 6 to 4 by the end, uless I am mistaken).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
The contention that there was anything positive on the sub side after the NGE is silly.
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
A year after the NGE... A bloody YEAR. Stop trying to sugarcoat this bullshit. The game was a terrible failure before the NGE was even launched. The chart from the site you quoted called your fabrication and now you're making excuses. I was there, the CU actually improved the terrible game. The NGE was probably a step too far, but let's not pretend that SWG was the magical fairyland of candy and sunshine when it wasn't. The community was what made the game tolerable. There were tons of us desperately trying to love this horrible game that had lots of potential so we did what we could with what we had. The sooner more of us realize that it's nostalgia talking and not reality we'll be better off.
WoW clone? Sorry, mate, those had been happening long before WAR.
I played WAR in the first few years and thought the game had so much potential going for it. Ultimately I quit because it felt like the developers quit caring enough to keep up on it.
Rip SWG . I never thought 9 years later I would still be looking for a new home. The longest I have lasted in a MMO since I quit SWG is 6 months that being Eve Online. One that is not on this list that I wish I got to try was Earth & Beyond. I heard lots of great things about it but never got to try it.
These days I play single player games for the most part though I just did sub to FF14 for the crafting. I hope some day we get another triple A MMO more like SWG and less like Wow.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
A year after the NGE... A bloody YEAR. Stop trying to sugarcoat this bullshit. The game was a terrible failure before the NGE was even launched. The chart from the site you quoted called your fabrication and now you're making excuses. I was there, the CU actually improved the terrible game. The NGE was probably a step too far, but let's not pretend that SWG was the magical fairyland of candy and sunshine when it wasn't. The community was what made the game tolerable. There were tons of us desperately trying to love this horrible game that had lots of potential so we did what we could with what we had. The sooner more of us realize that it's nostalgia talking and not reality we'll be better off.
I'm not sure what chart your looking at but the start of the decline of SWG was the Holocron which was released in early 2004. Even with it's decline the fast drop off after the NGE launched shows you what people thought of that.
The peak you see at the end of 2005 was the expansion that launched in Nov just before the NGE was released. The NGE as you can see on the chart started a quick sprial down at the end of 2005 and continured in 2006 to drop subs faster than you can say NGE. :P
Charts... How do they work. Those of us who can read can explain it if you need.
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
Against this backdrop there were at least 2 and maybe 3 server merges (25 to 13, 13 to 6, and 6 to 4 by the end, uless I am mistaken).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
The contention that there was anything positive on the sub side after the NGE is silly.
The contention that there was anything positive on the sub side before the NGE is equally silly.
The NGE was launched in November 2005. The game was lower than 200,000 subs at that point. It was already bleeding before the NGE Sony didn't even merge my server until like 2008-9. We're talking years here. Let's all stop pretending that the game was fine and the NGE ruined it.
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
A year after the NGE... A bloody YEAR. Stop trying to sugarcoat this bullshit. The game was a terrible failure before the NGE was even launched. The chart from the site you quoted called your fabrication and now you're making excuses. I was there, the CU actually improved the terrible game. The NGE was probably a step too far, but let's not pretend that SWG was the magical fairyland of candy and sunshine when it wasn't. The community was what made the game tolerable. There were tons of us desperately trying to love this horrible game that had lots of potential so we did what we could with what we had. The sooner more of us realize that it's nostalgia talking and not reality we'll be better off.
Originally posted by Qwii Tabula Rasa was a decent game ...it also was live for more than 4 mos. Over a year actually ...and ncsoft was kind enough to give those players who had a sub for the whole time it was live first come Beta access to the NA version of Aion. :P CoX was my first foray into MMOs and I loved it all the way thru to the end. I was sorry to see it get shut down. Never played the others so no comment on them.
It was not just the NA Aion closed beta, it was the *region* that you were in Beta... so for US NCsoft account holders, they got a US code and stuff, and for EU players they got the EU codes. This did hurt a few people though, because they were US players on the EU server (I had a few Americans in my TR Clan)
They also gave each account a Lineage 2 account and a City of Heroes account (with 3 months sub fee included for CoX) to each and every account that made the grade (ie were subscribed at the shutdown announcement).
Oh, and also a Guild Wars trial code as well. On top of the refunds for remaining subscription time.
Can't believe you are all still arguing about SWG's sub numbers after ALL THESE YEARS! Wow.
SWG was growing until Holocrons. Then it started shrinking. Each major change hurt it. Some changes weren't seen as major but were actually worse percentage-wise than the famous ones like CU. I've talked about this several times, including in this video:
Originally posted by ste2000 WAR deserved to die as it was the first MMO that gave the start to this WoW clone craze that is plaguing the indudtry.
This!
I'd also keep every game on the list sans City of Heroes. It was profitable and had a loyal following. The rest of the games on the list were duds in every sense of the word.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
A year after the NGE... A bloody YEAR. Stop trying to sugarcoat this bullshit. The game was a terrible failure before the NGE was even launched. The chart from the site you quoted called your fabrication and now you're making excuses. I was there, the CU actually improved the terrible game. The NGE was probably a step too far, but let's not pretend that SWG was the magical fairyland of candy and sunshine when it wasn't. The community was what made the game tolerable. There were tons of us desperately trying to love this horrible game that had lots of potential so we did what we could with what we had. The sooner more of us realize that it's nostalgia talking and not reality we'll be better off.
+ 10000000
SWG was a dismal failure and the statistics proved otherwise. Just like Trammel with UO the NGE gave SWG some life but it wasn't enough. I'll say it once if I say it a hundred times: No one wants to Roleplay Uncle Owen but every one wants to play Luke Skywalker. This is why non-combat centric sandbox games will always fail.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Can't believe you are all still arguing about SWG's sub numbers after ALL THESE YEARS! Wow.
SWG was growing until Holocrons. Then it started shrinking. Each major change hurt it. Some changes weren't seen as major but were actually worse percentage-wise than the famous ones like CU. I've talked about this several times, including in this video:
You have to admit Raph you were part of something that to this day brings a lot of passion from a lot of people that should make you feel good. How many people in their life time can make that claim? Anyway I can't thank you enough for what you have brought to MMO's and hope some day you can strike magic again.
Every now and then something like this will come along and hit me in the feels and remind me that CoX is no more! I had a sub on and off for years and once it went Free I did not have to worry about can I play this month, I always thought I read it was doing better once it had a F2P option so I'm still amazed to this day it got shut down
I've yet to enjoy another MMO like it, the only other MMO I've spent hours on is WoW which hit a few months after CoH, nothing in recent years has hooked me and I would still be playing CoX to this day if I could!
The only real options seem to be Champions Online and DC Universe Online and I love the DC Comics but both of those games are just lacking something...
Well one can only hope CoX can be revived I mean to this day there is talks with NCSoft of the potential of letting another studio run it, even if I have to start all over I would glady do so to get the game back in my life.
WAR was a fun game with some very creative classes. The public quests were were brilliant for the time. The lore book was very smart. The zone progressive nature of the pvp war was great.
It was pushed out too soon. Too many things were broken or missing. Classes were unbalanced. The lag was legendary.
But for what ever it was. Warhammer was not so much a wow clone as a failed WoW killer. Yes it was very similar to WoW but it went enough beyond WoW to earn the right to not be called a clone. But it did shoot to be a wow killer. Perhaps the first explicit attempt to be a WoW killer and that is just not why you create a game.
Games are supposed to be fun. Concentrate on creating fun and then leave it to the market to let you know how successful you were.
Comments
Because D&L was an abomination. More of a scam masquerading as an MMO. The only list it deserves to be in, is one that starts with "Worst MMOs of all time."
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
As mentioned, SOE included trial, vet trial, and station pass numbers in everything. In Q1 2006, SOE did a "universal vet trial" by turning on every single existing SWG acct in an attempt to get some people to play the thing, and thus, the small bump (and one for which they made no money, SOE was in "Oh Shit" mode at the time, if you recall).
As soon as that ended, the numbers tanked, as the vet trial ended, the prepaid time people had ran out (yes, SOE refused to refund 6 and 12 month subs after the NGE) and reality of what had been done set in.
And even then, these numbers, as bad as they are, also included station pass and trial accts, because SOE said they could "not differentiate" between acct types (although someone did when they leaked the 13k paying individual sub number).
Against this backdrop there were at least 2 and maybe 3 server merges (25 to 13, 13 to 6, and 6 to 4 by the end, uless I am mistaken).
As bad as these numbers are, the reality was worse.
The contention that there was anything positive on the sub side after the NGE is silly.
My first thought was "why isn't Vanguard on this list?" Then I realised it's technically still alive, for the next few days at least.
A year after the NGE... A bloody YEAR. Stop trying to sugarcoat this bullshit. The game was a terrible failure before the NGE was even launched. The chart from the site you quoted called your fabrication and now you're making excuses. I was there, the CU actually improved the terrible game. The NGE was probably a step too far, but let's not pretend that SWG was the magical fairyland of candy and sunshine when it wasn't. The community was what made the game tolerable. There were tons of us desperately trying to love this horrible game that had lots of potential so we did what we could with what we had. The sooner more of us realize that it's nostalgia talking and not reality we'll be better off.
WoW clone? Sorry, mate, those had been happening long before WAR.
I played WAR in the first few years and thought the game had so much potential going for it. Ultimately I quit because it felt like the developers quit caring enough to keep up on it.
Rip SWG
. I never thought 9 years later I would still be looking for a new home. The longest I have lasted in a MMO since I quit SWG is 6 months that being Eve Online. One that is not on this list that I wish I got to try was Earth & Beyond. I heard lots of great things about it but never got to try it.
These days I play single player games for the most part though I just did sub to FF14 for the crafting. I hope some day we get another triple A MMO more like SWG and less like Wow.
Every now and then, I wish I could go back and play Lineage 1 (US version) to revisit my first MMORPG.
Probably the only person in these forums who would say this however.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not sure what chart your looking at but the start of the decline of SWG was the Holocron which was released in early 2004. Even with it's decline the fast drop off after the NGE launched shows you what people thought of that.
The peak you see at the end of 2005 was the expansion that launched in Nov just before the NGE was released. The NGE as you can see on the chart started a quick sprial down at the end of 2005 and continured in 2006 to drop subs faster than you can say NGE. :P
The contention that there was anything positive on the sub side before the NGE is equally silly.
I would have liked to have played Tabula Rasa because of the good reviews I have read about it all these years
Warhammer was a very good game but, like Conan, they were issued in the middle of WoW fever. Both were too early forgotten.
All my love belongs to SWG.
^.^'
+ 10000000
It was not just the NA Aion closed beta, it was the *region* that you were in Beta... so for US NCsoft account holders, they got a US code and stuff, and for EU players they got the EU codes. This did hurt a few people though, because they were US players on the EU server (I had a few Americans in my TR Clan)
They also gave each account a Lineage 2 account and a City of Heroes account (with 3 months sub fee included for CoX) to each and every account that made the grade (ie were subscribed at the shutdown announcement).
Oh, and also a Guild Wars trial code as well. On top of the refunds for remaining subscription time.
Can't believe you are all still arguing about SWG's sub numbers after ALL THESE YEARS! Wow.
SWG was growing until Holocrons. Then it started shrinking. Each major change hurt it. Some changes weren't seen as major but were actually worse percentage-wise than the famous ones like CU. I've talked about this several times, including in this video:
This!
I'd also keep every game on the list sans City of Heroes. It was profitable and had a loyal following. The rest of the games on the list were duds in every sense of the word.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
SWG was a dismal failure and the statistics proved otherwise. Just like Trammel with UO the NGE gave SWG some life but it wasn't enough. I'll say it once if I say it a hundred times: No one wants to Roleplay Uncle Owen but every one wants to play Luke Skywalker. This is why non-combat centric sandbox games will always fail.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
You have to admit Raph you were part of something that to this day brings a lot of passion from a lot of people that should make you feel good. How many people in their life time can make that claim? Anyway I can't thank you enough for what you have brought to MMO's and hope some day you can strike magic again.
Every now and then something like this will come along and hit me in the feels and remind me that CoX is no more! I had a sub on and off for years and once it went Free I did not have to worry about can I play this month, I always thought I read it was doing better once it had a F2P option so I'm still amazed to this day it got shut down
I've yet to enjoy another MMO like it, the only other MMO I've spent hours on is WoW which hit a few months after CoH, nothing in recent years has hooked me and I would still be playing CoX to this day if I could!
The only real options seem to be Champions Online and DC Universe Online and I love the DC Comics but both of those games are just lacking something...
Well one can only hope CoX can be revived I mean to this day there is talks with NCSoft of the potential of letting another studio run it, even if I have to start all over I would glady do so to get the game back in my life.
WAR was a fun game with some very creative classes. The public quests were were brilliant for the time. The lore book was very smart. The zone progressive nature of the pvp war was great.
It was pushed out too soon. Too many things were broken or missing. Classes were unbalanced. The lag was legendary.
But for what ever it was. Warhammer was not so much a wow clone as a failed WoW killer. Yes it was very similar to WoW but it went enough beyond WoW to earn the right to not be called a clone. But it did shoot to be a wow killer. Perhaps the first explicit attempt to be a WoW killer and that is just not why you create a game.
Games are supposed to be fun. Concentrate on creating fun and then leave it to the market to let you know how successful you were.
All die, so die well.
"It won’t be the same though and it’s too bad WAR didn’t have a big longer." - page 1. Sounds naughty!
Also, where is VG?! Otherwise good list though. Damn our convention of using multiples of 5 as upper limits to lists.
I'm not signing this