Originally posted by kairel182 Originally posted by VorchThe amount of people who have not crafted in FFXIV and GW2 since ascended items and backpieces were added is staggering...That's cool though.
One could make a decent argument that FFXIV has an interesting crafting system, though I personally find it convoluted, but putting GW2 into the same category just further drags your point down to the depths of the abyss.
We've already proven that SWG and EVE should have been the top two slots, bar none, since, you know, you craft 99% of ALL items used in EVE entirely and the entire economy is built around that.
But hey, those few crafted pieces in FFXIV which is all replaced by "raid gear" must be important!
I know this is can be a tough concept to grasp, but not all people revolve their mmo experience around combat. Ffxiv caters to a crowd who enjoys non combat mmo activities as well as the raid progression crowd.
Originally posted by VorchThe amount of people who have not crafted in FFXIV and GW2 since ascended items and backpieces were added is staggering...That's cool though.
One could make a decent argument that FFXIV has an interesting crafting system, though I personally find it convoluted, but putting GW2 into the same category just further drags your point down to the depths of the abyss.
We've already proven that SWG and EVE should have been the top two slots, bar none, since, you know, you craft 99% of ALL items used in EVE entirely and the entire economy is built around that.
But hey, those few crafted pieces in FFXIV which is all replaced by "raid gear" must be important!
I know this is can be a tough concept to grasp, but not all people revolve their mmo experience around combat. Ffxiv caters to a crowd who enjoys non combat mmo activities as well as the raid progression crowd.
The trouble with that is, combat raids are where you get all the bottleneck ingredients for crafting in FF14. Add to that the strong influence level plays on mechanics, the item level 70 cap over raid gear item level 95, the raid gear item level coming from the exact same content as the components for the crafted. As well done as the crafting system is in FF14 it made itself obsolete.
Even housing items. They buried it behind an insane gill grind you couldn't dream of accomplishing through crafting due to the inferior nature of crafted gear, were forced to grind out in dungeons that complimented you with better options at every turn. It was the greatest crafting system to never be needed in MMO's.
Originally posted by free2play Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by kairel182Originally posted by VorchThe amount of people who have not crafted in FFXIV and GW2 since ascended items and backpieces were added is staggering...That's cool though.
One could make a decent argument that FFXIV has an interesting crafting system, though I personally find it convoluted, but putting GW2 into the same category just further drags your point down to the depths of the abyss.We've already proven that SWG and EVE should have been the top two slots, bar none, since, you know, you craft 99% of ALL items used in EVE entirely and the entire economy is built around that. But hey, those few crafted pieces in FFXIV which is all replaced by "raid gear" must be important!I know this is can be a tough concept to grasp, but not all people revolve their mmo experience around combat. Ffxiv caters to a crowd who enjoys non combat mmo activities as well as the raid progression crowd. The trouble with that is, combat raids are where you get all the bottleneck ingredients for crafting in FF14. Add to that the strong influence level plays on mechanics, the item level 70 cap over raid gear item level 95, the raid gear item level coming from the exact same content as the components for the crafted. As well done as the crafting system is in FF14 it made itself obsolete.
Even housing items. They buried it behind an insane gill grind you couldn't dream of accomplishing through crafting due to the inferior nature of crafted gear, were forced to grind out in dungeons that complimented you with better options at every turn. It was the greatest crafting system to never be needed in MMO's.
Why would I care about raids dropping raid mats for raid gear when I just said that there are tons of non combat activities that have their own rewards. The house decorations that come from raid drops are trophies from said raid encounters. I think you are still having a hard time grasping this concept. I dont raid or do dungeons, whatever drops that are in dungeons do not affect my gameplay. I dont need any of it. I have my own activities and rewards that dont involve anything regarding group pve or combat. Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Somehow you have convinced youself that it is impossible to have a fulfilling game experience if someone else is getting more powerful items. Thats not even how half this game works lol.
suprised to see mortal online on the list, but i agree that it deserves to be on there, having 1.5million weapon and armor combinations does make it a worthy contender.
but no ultima online? or eve online? they are 2 of only a few mmorpgs wereits common for players to play the game as a crafter
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I happened to come across this article during a Google search. Having played the hands down best crafting game every to grace a computer screen, Wurm Online, I see this list and cringe. SWG is the only real crafting game I see on the list, and it's nothing compared to Wurm.
You want an example? OK, let's make a shack in Wurm Online. We've just been killed in PVP, our corpse looted, our deed looted, everything sacrificed, carried away, or pushed onto a lava patch. We have nothing. Nothing except crafting.
First we need to forage. Find sticks and rocks and low quality chunks of iron.
We make a crude knife by using rock on crude iron.
After that we use the knife to make a shovel, and a pick axe.
We use the shovel to dig into the ground and clear a place for a mine entrance.
We use the pick to prospect the rock, to see if there is iron nearby.
Repeat until Iron is found in rock near the mine entrance.
Use the pick to mine into the ground. The iron will be nearby, if you are lucky, very close, if not, it may take hours to find it within a 7x7 tile area using a crude pick.
Yay, now we found iron!
Now, what can we do with it? Well, we want a shack, so we will need nails, and planks. Planks need a saw. So let's get started!
First, chop down a mature wood tree, not a fruit tree, with your shovel or pick. We'd prefer to use a hatchet, but we can't make a hatchet yet!!, so we'll bludgeon a tree down with a poor tool.
After a little while we've beaten a tree into submission, a mature tree will give us just one log. A very old fruit tree would do the same, in most cases. If we chop down too big of a tree it will be useless to us - we need a saw to cut a large tree into logs!
So now, we have a single log. We use the knife on the log to make a couple shafts. We use the knife again on one shaft to make a mallet head. We use the mallet head on the untouched shaft - and if we're lucky we have a mallet!
Now, we've got the critical tool to really start making progress!!
We mine a bunch of iron ore and then make a campfire to smelt the ore. We will need to chop down a few more trees to keep the fire going a while, because the fire is terrible quality, it will take a while to refine the iron.
Finally, we have iron lump! We use the mallet on the iron lump to make a small anvil. We use more iron lump on the small anvil to make a saw, and lots of nails!
We use the mallet on the ground to create a plan for a one-tile shack.
Now we chop down a bunch of trees with the saw, then cut them into logs.
We cut the logs into planks.
We put nails and planks in our inventory and use the mallet on the walls of the shack, making certain at least one wall is designated as a door.
After we finish all four walls, we have a tiny shack, with no lock, a small mine, and a few crude tools. If we are a low skill player with no help, this process probably took us an entire day. A high skill player can come back from nothing in a short time, provided they can find a decent iron source.
In Wurm, EVERYTHING is player made. There are a few newbie tools, but I'm not sure if they are even given out anymore. Some of you might remember Wurm as that great crafting game with absurdly awful avatar graphics. That's changed. It's no top tier game, but the graphics aren't not horrifyingly bad anymore. Want PVP? Full Loot? Wurm has it. Want carebear, no PVP? Wurm has it. Want something inbetween? Wurm probably still has it, though the PVPers are constantly trying to get Rolf to break the home servers in the PVP cluster, and for all I know he might have broken down and finally agreed
Even the land is modifiable by players. Want to build an island? Gather or buy enough dirt and a ship , and you can. That hill offend you? Grab a shovel and pick and spend a few days/weeks/months surface mining to reduce the hill to a flat spot, then put dirt on it and start your farm. Want to breed mounts to create warhorses with useful traits? Go ahead!
The only bad thing about the Wurm crafting system is that everything is awesome, except the terrible item enchantment system. Everything else in the game is work-for reward. You can make items better by improving them. But spells are a gamble. If Rolf were to ever make enchantments on items an improvable system like the rest of the crafting system, he might have something very close to the perfect crafting game.
Oh, yes, and you can play for free, if you want. If you don't mind working for others, a few hours effort can get you enough silver to buy a month's premium. Coin enters the game from the cash shop, and Rolf doesn't care what you do with it. It leaves the game by deed maintenance and a few item purchases from traders, like deeds, merchant contracts, trader contracts.
I played Wurm for years. I still keep an eye on it, waiting for a server to be started with no magic, or a blitz pvp server that would reset every few months. I do not like the high fantasy direction Rolf has taken the game in, or the way magic enchantment works. Everything else about Wurm make it a must-play game for anyone who enjoys crafting. If you choose to try it out, go to the forums and try to get an invite to a village, either PVP or PVE. Even if they treat you terribly, you would probably do far worse on your own as a noob. After you learn the basics in a village, then consider trying to do things on your own, or maybe find a new village with people you get along with better.
Whenever I see a "Best Crafting" list that doesn't have Wurm on top, I know that whoever wrote the list has never played Wurm.
Originally posted by brewergamer Mortal Online has the greatest crafting system I have ever seen, I absolutely love crafting on that game it's the most in-depth there is.
Mortal really was good. When I played the game in beta, we were literally researching how things were made in real life to figure out how to refine and create different metals and then craft different items, armors and weapons. No one knew back then how to make things. There were so many crafting stations, and no wiki or tutorial teaching you how do make anything. You had to actually learn something, which fascinated me.
Depth alone is not enough though. Just like crafting a fine sword or an sturdy or ornate piece of armor in real life takes more than knowledge of how its forged, a crafting system should have a sort of skill based game involved with it. Thats why I felt like Vanguard stood above and beyond all other crafting mini games, even if it was more simplistic than say Wurm online or Mortal online. I see a lot of people mentioning EQ2, and it was good in its time, but more like a watered down Vanguard crafting system where anyone could make a button mash macro and hit max level in a couple days (thats what I did).
Also worth mentioning was Vanguard's group based gathering system (what? something that requires more than 1 person in an MMO?!) where you could harvest more materials, much faster if you had people with you. Was especially good when you found a rare or ultra rare node. Brilliant.
Comments
We've already proven that SWG and EVE should have been the top two slots, bar none, since, you know, you craft 99% of ALL items used in EVE entirely and the entire economy is built around that.
But hey, those few crafted pieces in FFXIV which is all replaced by "raid gear" must be important!
I know this is can be a tough concept to grasp, but not all people revolve their mmo experience around combat. Ffxiv caters to a crowd who enjoys non combat mmo activities as well as the raid progression crowd.
The trouble with that is, combat raids are where you get all the bottleneck ingredients for crafting in FF14. Add to that the strong influence level plays on mechanics, the item level 70 cap over raid gear item level 95, the raid gear item level coming from the exact same content as the components for the crafted. As well done as the crafting system is in FF14 it made itself obsolete.
Even housing items. They buried it behind an insane gill grind you couldn't dream of accomplishing through crafting due to the inferior nature of crafted gear, were forced to grind out in dungeons that complimented you with better options at every turn. It was the greatest crafting system to never be needed in MMO's.
I know this is can be a tough concept to grasp, but not all people revolve their mmo experience around combat. Ffxiv caters to a crowd who enjoys non combat mmo activities as well as the raid progression crowd.
The trouble with that is, combat raids are where you get all the bottleneck ingredients for crafting in FF14. Add to that the strong influence level plays on mechanics, the item level 70 cap over raid gear item level 95, the raid gear item level coming from the exact same content as the components for the crafted. As well done as the crafting system is in FF14 it made itself obsolete.
Even housing items. They buried it behind an insane gill grind you couldn't dream of accomplishing through crafting due to the inferior nature of crafted gear, were forced to grind out in dungeons that complimented you with better options at every turn. It was the greatest crafting system to never be needed in MMO's.
Why would I care about raids dropping raid mats for raid gear when I just said that there are tons of non combat activities that have their own rewards. The house decorations that come from raid drops are trophies from said raid encounters. I think you are still having a hard time grasping this concept. I dont raid or do dungeons, whatever drops that are in dungeons do not affect my gameplay. I dont need any of it. I have my own activities and rewards that dont involve anything regarding group pve or combat.
Why is this so difficult for some people to understand? Somehow you have convinced youself that it is impossible to have a fulfilling game experience if someone else is getting more powerful items. Thats not even how half this game works lol.
suprised to see mortal online on the list, but i agree that it deserves to be on there, having 1.5million weapon and armor combinations does make it a worthy contender.
but no ultima online? or eve online? they are 2 of only a few mmorpgs wereits common for players to play the game as a crafter
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Wall Of Text Warning!
I happened to come across this article during a Google search. Having played the hands down best crafting game every to grace a computer screen, Wurm Online, I see this list and cringe. SWG is the only real crafting game I see on the list, and it's nothing compared to Wurm.
You want an example? OK, let's make a shack in Wurm Online. We've just been killed in PVP, our corpse looted, our deed looted, everything sacrificed, carried away, or pushed onto a lava patch. We have nothing. Nothing except crafting.
First we need to forage. Find sticks and rocks and low quality chunks of iron.
We make a crude knife by using rock on crude iron.
After that we use the knife to make a shovel, and a pick axe.
We use the shovel to dig into the ground and clear a place for a mine entrance.
We use the pick to prospect the rock, to see if there is iron nearby.
Repeat until Iron is found in rock near the mine entrance.
Use the pick to mine into the ground. The iron will be nearby, if you are lucky, very close, if not, it may take hours to find it within a 7x7 tile area using a crude pick.
Yay, now we found iron!
Now, what can we do with it? Well, we want a shack, so we will need nails, and planks. Planks need a saw. So let's get started!
First, chop down a mature wood tree, not a fruit tree, with your shovel or pick. We'd prefer to use a hatchet, but we can't make a hatchet yet!!, so we'll bludgeon a tree down with a poor tool.
After a little while we've beaten a tree into submission, a mature tree will give us just one log. A very old fruit tree would do the same, in most cases. If we chop down too big of a tree it will be useless to us - we need a saw to cut a large tree into logs!
So now, we have a single log. We use the knife on the log to make a couple shafts. We use the knife again on one shaft to make a mallet head. We use the mallet head on the untouched shaft - and if we're lucky we have a mallet!
Now, we've got the critical tool to really start making progress!!
We mine a bunch of iron ore and then make a campfire to smelt the ore. We will need to chop down a few more trees to keep the fire going a while, because the fire is terrible quality, it will take a while to refine the iron.
Finally, we have iron lump! We use the mallet on the iron lump to make a small anvil. We use more iron lump on the small anvil to make a saw, and lots of nails!
We use the mallet on the ground to create a plan for a one-tile shack.
Now we chop down a bunch of trees with the saw, then cut them into logs.
We cut the logs into planks.
We put nails and planks in our inventory and use the mallet on the walls of the shack, making certain at least one wall is designated as a door.
After we finish all four walls, we have a tiny shack, with no lock, a small mine, and a few crude tools. If we are a low skill player with no help, this process probably took us an entire day. A high skill player can come back from nothing in a short time, provided they can find a decent iron source.
In Wurm, EVERYTHING is player made. There are a few newbie tools, but I'm not sure if they are even given out anymore. Some of you might remember Wurm as that great crafting game with absurdly awful avatar graphics. That's changed. It's no top tier game, but the graphics aren't not horrifyingly bad anymore. Want PVP? Full Loot? Wurm has it. Want carebear, no PVP? Wurm has it. Want something inbetween? Wurm probably still has it, though the PVPers are constantly trying to get Rolf to break the home servers in the PVP cluster, and for all I know he might have broken down and finally agreed
Even the land is modifiable by players. Want to build an island? Gather or buy enough dirt and a ship , and you can. That hill offend you? Grab a shovel and pick and spend a few days/weeks/months surface mining to reduce the hill to a flat spot, then put dirt on it and start your farm. Want to breed mounts to create warhorses with useful traits? Go ahead!
The only bad thing about the Wurm crafting system is that everything is awesome, except the terrible item enchantment system. Everything else in the game is work-for reward. You can make items better by improving them. But spells are a gamble. If Rolf were to ever make enchantments on items an improvable system like the rest of the crafting system, he might have something very close to the perfect crafting game.
Oh, yes, and you can play for free, if you want. If you don't mind working for others, a few hours effort can get you enough silver to buy a month's premium. Coin enters the game from the cash shop, and Rolf doesn't care what you do with it. It leaves the game by deed maintenance and a few item purchases from traders, like deeds, merchant contracts, trader contracts.
I played Wurm for years. I still keep an eye on it, waiting for a server to be started with no magic, or a blitz pvp server that would reset every few months. I do not like the high fantasy direction Rolf has taken the game in, or the way magic enchantment works. Everything else about Wurm make it a must-play game for anyone who enjoys crafting. If you choose to try it out, go to the forums and try to get an invite to a village, either PVP or PVE. Even if they treat you terribly, you would probably do far worse on your own as a noob. After you learn the basics in a village, then consider trying to do things on your own, or maybe find a new village with people you get along with better.
Whenever I see a "Best Crafting" list that doesn't have Wurm on top, I know that whoever wrote the list has never played Wurm.
SWG + EQ2 + Archeage/Runescape = Best crafting system ever
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Mortal really was good. When I played the game in beta, we were literally researching how things were made in real life to figure out how to refine and create different metals and then craft different items, armors and weapons. No one knew back then how to make things. There were so many crafting stations, and no wiki or tutorial teaching you how do make anything. You had to actually learn something, which fascinated me.
Depth alone is not enough though. Just like crafting a fine sword or an sturdy or ornate piece of armor in real life takes more than knowledge of how its forged, a crafting system should have a sort of skill based game involved with it. Thats why I felt like Vanguard stood above and beyond all other crafting mini games, even if it was more simplistic than say Wurm online or Mortal online. I see a lot of people mentioning EQ2, and it was good in its time, but more like a watered down Vanguard crafting system where anyone could make a button mash macro and hit max level in a couple days (thats what I did).
Also worth mentioning was Vanguard's group based gathering system (what? something that requires more than 1 person in an MMO?!) where you could harvest more materials, much faster if you had people with you. Was especially good when you found a rare or ultra rare node. Brilliant.