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Why Group Content doesn't work for the majority of the player base
jpnz
Member Posts: 3,529
Recently 2 of my friends got married and found out afterwards that their wives were ex-WoW players.
This started a series of events that ended up with 9 players in Karazhan cause most of us left during the BC/Wrath era and no one knew what the heck was going on.
Where are my talents? Why is there a pokemon game in WoW? I was told there is farmville in WoW now. Where is it? F it! Lets pile into Kara for old times sake!
While it was a fun run of 9 people for '2-3 hours' something struck me. Not one of us actually managed to play for the full 2-3 hours.
Baby feeding / baby bath / wife aggro / Non-scheduled downtime at work etc all meant people had to take breaks while others went ahead. Now Kara is solo content so we didn't have any issues as we made our way through but what if it wasn't?
What if we were in 'current Raid content' in WoW? Would any one of us actually be able to play?
Now, back in the BC/Wrath days, most of us were single so we could. Now? Married + kids? I don't think so. And I don't think i'm alone in this. The large portion of people who played WoW on release were in their 20s. They grew up and are doing things that most people do when they grow up; have a child / start a family.
This limitation for us means 'bite sized content' which starts the whole 'lack of grouping' in modern MMOs. If you only have 20mins consecutively, you are not going to be able to group with other people.
Here's the thing, I'm pretty sure we represent the largest portion of the MMO playerbase; middle class or higher, aged around 30-50. As someone from that playerbase, sorry but this 'group content' isn't more important than my baby's meal / baby's bath / Wife aggro / whatever.
MMO players grew up, deal with it.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
Gamers who are still in high school amd college will have more time than we old farts.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I can't remember the exact numbers, but some large surveys a while ago showed that the largest group of gamers is somewhere between late twenties and early forties (If I'm remembering correctly).
So the OP isn't that far off, that age range makes a perfect target audience for a lot of companies. Hence the whole "appealing to the casual gamers" buzz that's been going around in the MMO industry for a while.
Companies will always chase the money.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
It's always been that way..
I've Raided with lder gamers way back when that had all those issues and still managed to progress.
It's not a barrier, You just cant play like you did when you were younger.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I'm 40 and still have lots of time to play games. I just don't want to sit in a raid anymore with a bunch of people I don't really like but need them to get loot.
I'd rather goof off doing not so serious stuff with people I actually enjoy playing with. Many of them have time issues so I guess it's still a factor but really I've just been there and done it and even have a bunch of T-shirts. Raiding just isn't all the different in these games.
Lets 'deal with it' by looking at this post and realise why it makes no sense since in the 'real world' there are things called 'demographics'.
http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/gaming-advocacy-group-the-average-gamer-is-31-and-most-play-on-a-console/
The average age of someone who plays games is 31 years old. In fact, more gamers are over the age of 36 than between the ages of 18 to 35 or under the age of 18.
I'm sure there are outliers '40 year old singles' but as a whole I don't think assuming your '36+' age group has 'family / real life obligations' is a bad assumption.
I would suggest reading the OP as there is a reason why the title is 'Majority of players', not 'All players'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Oh dear, the OP has reached the age where he thinks he's the first gamer to have an epiphany. Sorry mate, I've got grandkids now, so I went through the "omg I have kids and I'm an online gamer!" phase a long, long time ago. It's nothing that hasn't happened to many hundreds of thousands of gamers around the world at some point.
There wasn't this single generation of gamers born all at once that grew up and moved on together. Oddly, new people are born at random intervals, all the time, you know. I thought you may have noticed that, given your situation. It's time to realise you are hardly unique, not a special case and just get on with it, like everyone else that has had a family.
Apparently people can't read so not sure what this post is talking about.
Are you in a different thread?
Notice how I said 'majority of players' and provided facts to support that? /Facepalm
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Appearently you started with WoW and so never experienced what REAL Group content and social interaction is!
Since WoW, every MMO that came after.... Group content is solely Limited to gear grinds that causes more grief than actually fun social interaction!
I hate to bring up SWG again, but in the days of SWG (pre-NGE) there were no gear grinds! There was no Trinity system forcing you to have a tank, off tank, bunch of DPS and a healer or two!
People just got together, traveled and just do stuff! Be it sacking an rebel or imperial base, night sister or Rancor hunting or one of the awesome world bosses.
People just get together, travel to a spot. A ranger put up a camp for People to heal, buff, prepare, etc and then we just went on a hunt together!
Or People just gathered and socialized in one of the cantinas. Busy in a guild hall or player house / shop, etc.
That´s what Group content was about! People created the Group activities themselves! With no pressure! No stupid Trinity system forced Down your throat! No horrible tedious gear grinds!
And then it didn´t matter if you were a student, a single or married person with kids. You could just come online whenever you wanted, do what you wanted and spend time as long as it suited you, without any pressure.
/SIGH ! I really miss that kind of stuff in MMO´s these days. :-(
I think it is more a case of the older you get and the more responsibilities you have, the less you give a shit about things like raiding or group content. You just want to sit down and have a good time with what little time you have.
But you can still do that shit if you want to. Just got to find the time for it. Lots of us oldies play golf and thats a game that requires a good 6 hours or so. So if you want to raid just lock yourself in your gaming room and tell your wife you are golfing. If she doesn't like it, maybe you married the wrong woman.
Personally I think it is the former tho. The older you get the less it seems all the work that goes into being a raider is worth the trouble.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
It's all outdated the next patch anyway.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
jpnz.
That is why I bitch at devs non-stop is because of bad programming.. I'm not talking about game mechanics, but the social mechanics as well.. I don't have time to devote 3 > 5 to 8 hours raiding at a time.. There are just too many interruptions in life.. However, the devs keep programming more and more group activities that lock players in, or get kicked out.. This is why I hate instances as well.. It promotes that "locked" in feeling where you can't go AFK as life interrupts you.. I however love how GW2 does it.. All group content should be "SOFT" grouped, so that you can be part of the event or activity, but if something comes up, you don't feel pressured or alienated for going afk or leaving the area..
Games can be designed to encourage grouping, but not make you feel tied down.. Same with raiding and world bosses.. They should be more challenging then what GW2 did, but I don't want to see instanced 20 man raids either that restrict the enjoyment of players.. especially those with real life responsibilites..
That´s why gear grinds are the bain of MMO´s today! It´s just a total Waste of time! Causing more stress, pressure and grief than anything else. Making it more like a second job than actually fun!
The thing is, that it feeds the human´s addiction problem, making people addicted to it. That´s the only reason why it Works.
But for me (luckily) it´s the opposite effect and why I loath it! And why I loved sandbox games like SWG pre-NGE!
There was just no pressure, no stress, no Trinity system forcing people in set roles or be excluded!
People could be what they wanted and do what they liked! If you don´t like combat? No problem, just be a musician, an engineer, an entertainer or a doctor or even a politician.
That is what made that game great! Every single profession and skill tree had it´s uses and everyone felt useful in some way.
It created an awesome, very social and interactive community never found anywhere else.
And it´s because of that why People are so passionate about it and why you still see these heated discussions on forums today.
So many problematic assumtpions..where to begin?
First off, you're not the center of the mmo universe. I know its tough to hear, but the genre doesnt rise and set on your ass.
Second, not everyone age 30-50 is a breeder, or has a partner who gives them grief about video games, or "whatever".
Third, just because you bought in to the heteronormative tradmill lifepath, doesnt mean you "grew up". It just means you're doing what you feel works for you. If that means popping out kids, going to church on sundays, bitching about the old ball n chain with your brosefs, thats fine. Its not the definitive answer to growing up, whatever growing up means anyway. I think thats a term people use who are stuck with shitty life choices, so they can feel better about their lives.
Have a nice day.
This post is pretty illogical so lets break it down!
First off, I never stated I was the center of the mmo universe. I did a CTRL-F to see if I did but nope. I know putting words in people's mouths is tempting to do in a debate but it generally doesn't work.
Second, I never said 'everyone'. I said the majority. If you want to argue that the majority of people in their 30-50 don't have kids, you go ahead and do that. Please provide evidence though cause according to the USA census (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/households_families_group_quarters.html) you would be wrong.
Third, apparently 'having a child = shitty life choices'. I don't agree with that opinion but whatever.
I'm having a nice day. Thanks!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Don't see the problem. There are plenty of single player games available to those who can't find time to play multiplayer games. Turn-based games like XCOM or Crusader Kings are great examples as you don't even need a pause key.
I have been in many groupings where "kids" would say in chat, "Gotta go. Mom says dinner is ready." They'd go AFK and come back when they could. Parents would do the same thing, going AFK for a bit and coming back when whatever was taken care of.
The difference now-a-days, is that MMOs are constant action. There is no downtime for players to take care of "real life" hiccups. We have to make a concerted effort to go to the bathroom. Find a safe place to stare at a wall and go AFK.
All I am saying is, "Where there is a will, there is a way." Players have been dealing with this (successfully) since online gaming was started.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
First off, I never stated I was the center of the mmo universe. I did a CTRL-F to see if I did but nope. I know putting words in people's mouths is tempting to do in a debate but it generally doesn't work.
Second, I never said 'everyone'. I said the majority. If you want to argue that the majority of people in their 30-50 don't have kids, you go ahead and do that. Please provide evidence though cause according to the USA census (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/households_families_group_quarters.html) you would be wrong.
Third, apparently 'having a child = shitty life choices'. I don't agree with that opinion but whatever.
I'm having a nice day. Thanks!
haha nice
I never said 'we should be the only one catered to'.
However, it is a fact that we are the majority. According to the US census, the largest gamer demographic (30-50) most likely have kids / family. So if a company wants to market to the majority of gamers, a 'real raid' might not be the one with the most appeal.
A bit puzzled on why people try to 'individualize' this when I'm talking numbers / stats but /shrug.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Don't know why I missed this!
But as someone who plays golf (10+ years now), it is a lot easier to fend off 'Wife Aggro and get her to tank the baby' if you say 'Honey! I'm going to walk / swing a club for 6 hours! than 'Honey! I'm going to sit for 6 hours while we kill this internet dragon!'
Just sayin... :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
jpnz, you self-centered, heteronormative brosef, you...
Sorry to see what happened here. One of the few non-exaggerated, fact-backed posts looking to discuss possible reasons for the playstyle changes in MMOs and it's filled with knee-jerk rantposting from people that saw keywords and saw red.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I see this come up all the time when things like forced grouping in Everquest are discussed. Usually what follows is "No one has time for that. We grew up!" Apparently no one that was already grown played Everquest. It's easy to believe that it's true for everyone because it's true for you. It's not. Even if you pull out the target demographics repeatedly not everyone makes the same life decisions, and as far as I have read it's our generation that is mainly skipping out on the 2.5 kids and white picket fence (May be different outside of the US, no clue).
Also, if it's enjoyable players will make time, no matter what they have going on in their life.
/raises hand
guilty as charged. I dont know, maybe its because I am covering the night shift and I am just tired. But I read the OP and all I was getting was, "Cater to me because Im important"
Sorry everyone. I try not to knee jerk, but I did this time.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This is a tangent (but this is my thread so my rules!) but I never knew what a 'brosef' was. o_O
I think the playstyle has changed and will stay that way for a while. Maybe the 'next wave' will have different taste and I'll be the 'bittervet' here talking about how wonderful 'WoW' was before they killed it in expansion #23 'WoW - Make more money reboot'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.