I was one of the weekend invitees to Archeage, and couldn't log in. I tried all of the work arounds, with no luck. The support link did answer me, but they were no help. The game has a long way to go to become playable. There were many who couldn't log in.
Nicely written piece. I haven't played ArcheAge, so can't comment on that, but I had the same issues with ESO. That, in essence, ESO failed to capture the feel and spirit of other Elder Scrolls games (beyond what changes were necessary to make it an MMO, which are recognised and acknowledged). I know many, many others feel the same. Fanboys can and will dismiss your perfectly valid points, as is their wont, but they shouldn't blithely dismiss these very real issues that have been said many times by reviewers and customers.
mmorpg.com is running the risk of marginalizing itself even further with articles like this.
When I posted the mmorpg.com article asking for a Emp reset on the official forums (forums much busier than here btw), which raised a great question imo, it was meet with "who cares what that troll site thinks". It couldn't even gain traction because people couldn't get past the source.
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree here.
So you posted a link to an article with a reasonable discussion idea to a forum full of fanboi's who've drunk the Kool-Aid and you got a negative reaction, (go back to WOW!) and are surprised?
Perhaps this is the site of reason after all.
If you read the article, it is one man's opinion, (not a MMORPG employee) and merely points out that AA plays more openly than ESO does, making it resemble ES games more in his opinion.
He didn't speak in absolutes, qualified his play time in AA and overall wrote a pretty decent article.
ESO is a very linear, traditional theme park design, and lacks much of the freedom AA permits so I agree with the OP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was a good article. Always nice to see how others view the game world.
As to these games, I have played both and like neither which is kind of odd because I thought that AA would be my next main game since I really like sandbox games. While AA has some sandbox elements, it is still has a themepark at it's heart.
Kyle was rather accurate about my own issues with ESO. I will let him off the hook because he really has not had much time to get familiar with AA. AA's huge issue for me, too much of the crafting is tied to the item shop. That is a huge no no in my book. I know people will disagree with that, but even subscribers are going to have to face that issue at some point.
Secondly I found both the pve and pvp in AA to be highly boring, granted pvp at max level with be different, but it won't be that different.
For those proponents of either game, I wish you many hours of enjoyment, but when you come to the forums lauding your game, expect to get called on it because neither really measures up. I will say this for Trion, AA is far more heavily cash shop based in Korea. Trion did try to lessen the reliance of the game on it, but they could only do so much without making the game extremely hard to patch with new updates.
I just hope Kyle ignores all the people flaming the article because he really did a nice job with it.
"I’d join them, of course, because I’d be foolish not to."
He sees people repeatedly killing bosses then decides to join them and now hates the game... umm, am I missing something here? I've played ESO since beta and not once have I played Combat Simulator Slot Machine.
People cried about how eso made them spend money on pre orders and other stuff. Then when it comes to this game being a f2p. Not nearly as many people spokeup about having to spend 150 dollars for an alpha to a game that is already released in Korean and Russia. How much money is Trion giving you?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm speechless, I just don't know what to say to this column. All I can do from here is log out of my browser and go back to Skyrim shaking my head in disbelief.
With the eternal supply of questing and assorted mods Skyrim still supplies endless adventures for me.
I feel the same way about ESO as they put you on a tight road and constantly make it tighter. I loved the variety in the beginning. I could do quests, take a break by grinding a few dungeons, or just jump on my horse and explore zones for a change of pace. Didn't have to craft in order to enjoy the game unless I wanted.
AA is just to new to form an opinion on. It could easily end up another Eve. So far I like it and the theory of how things are implemented. Only time will tell.
I really enjoyed your article. Thanks.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I actually think the ES lore is the most important thing in the ES universe... I can get freedom in lots of MMOs already (darkfall...), but it's wrapping them within the ES lore that's the interesting part. They've wrapped it up pretty well in ESO. Lore+Atmosphere.
The problem I think is the following: the author didn't care about the story, but cared about the free-form experience. I say there are a ton of "freedom-filled" games and it's difficult to consider Archeage doing it in the way that exemplifies Skyrim/Morrowind. Archeage may do it the Archeage-way, but it will never feel like an Elder Scrolls game.
Elder Scrolls 6 will be fun with the co-op play though (haha).
That was the entire point of the article - and I agree with it 100%
The responses from dozen or so posters that love to throw mud at ArcheAge (and love ESO) were pretty entertaining - always brings a chuckle to me.
But the articles is spot on - is it really surprising to ANYONE that a more sandboxy game *captures the sprit* (<- key phrase) moreso than a themepark game?
It didn't have to be ArcheAge at all - any sanboxish fanatasy game with open world would be a better fit than ESO.
Elderscrolls are not sandboxy.
They are single player games that broke from the traditional 1 long huge story arc to a compilation of smaller somewhat connected but non-interdependent story arks that may or may not tie in. There is nothing sandboxy about ES games other than an open world, but that's due to the multiple story arks more than anything else. Everything else about them is theme park. Even Hearthfire is still all predefined housing. You can't even decide where to place the items you build for your home.
Note: There are mods that make ES games sandboxy, but those aren't from Bethesda
That was the entire point of the article - and I agree with it 100%
The responses from dozen or so posters that love to throw mud at ArcheAge (and love ESO) were pretty entertaining - always brings a chuckle to me.
But the articles is spot on - is it really surprising to ANYONE that a more sandboxy game *captures the sprit* (<- key phrase) moreso than a themepark game?
It didn't have to be ArcheAge at all - any sanboxish fanatasy game with open world would be a better fit than ESO.
Elderscrolls are not sandboxy.
They are single player games that broke from the traditional 1 long huge story arc to a compilation of smaller somewhat connected but non-interdependent story arks that may or may not tie in. There is nothing sandboxy about ES games other than an open world, but that's due to the multiple story arks more than anything else. Everything else about them is theme park. Even Hearthfire is still all predefined housing. You can't even decide where to place the items you build for your home.
Note: There are mods that make ES games sandboxy, but those aren't from Bethesda
Does anyone seriously play any ES game without running at least half a dozen mods?
Right because all those dozen mods everyone runs with are all the ones that make Elder Scrolls Sandboxy.
That was the entire point of the article - and I agree with it 100%
The responses from dozen or so posters that love to throw mud at ArcheAge (and love ESO) were pretty entertaining - always brings a chuckle to me.
But the articles is spot on - is it really surprising to ANYONE that a more sandboxy game *captures the sprit* (<- key phrase) moreso than a themepark game?
It didn't have to be ArcheAge at all - any sanboxish fanatasy game with open world would be a better fit than ESO.
Elderscrolls are not sandboxy.
They are single player games that broke from the traditional 1 long huge story arc to a compilation of smaller somewhat connected but non-interdependent story arks that may or may not tie in. There is nothing sandboxy about ES games other than an open world, but that's due to the multiple story arks more than anything else. Everything else about them is theme park. Even Hearthfire is still all predefined housing. You can't even decide where to place the items you build for your home.
Note: There are mods that make ES games sandboxy, but those aren't from Bethesda
Does anyone seriously play any ES game without running at least half a dozen mods?
The funny part are the comments. Seriously people, the article is just a personal experience, the games involved could very well be different ones and the result would be the same. Why are the trolls/rabid fans always reacting only to the game titles in the articles and not to the experience described?
To the author: Welcome in the group of mature MMORPG players :-) Now you understand what it is all about.
I love Skyrim, I have more than 800 hours played (according to Steam). However, I have not yet finished the main story quest line. Ever.
I also enjoyed playing ESO, but got side-tracked after a month or two and simply haven't gone back yet. I might return at some point, unless I get lost in some sandboxy game like AA...
But I can wholeheartedly agree with the author that "AA captures the ES spirit better than ESO". I play AA much the same way as I played Skyrim. I stopped questing after about L16 and since then I've been farming, trading, exploring and PVP'ing. I didn't wait for the magical "L30" to start enjoying AA, I started when I wanted to.
Interesting, that trying to compare a RPG that has no PVP in it, to an MMO that is all about PVP, if anything Archeage has closer ties to Darkfall;Unholy Wars than it does anything Elder Scrolls related, they have a hell of a lot in common too, although personally i think the graphics in DF;UW are slightly better, which is kind of bizarre, but both Archeage and DF;UW are PVP MMO's in a 'fantasy' setting, both have 'safe' areas, and both lay claim to being 'sandbox' games, although imo DF;UW has a much stronger case for being one, and Archeage remains a mostly themepark experience, with linear questing/area grinding based on level. That in itself sets it apart from Elder Scrolls games, as they don't tend to have level based areas, saying that it 'captures the spirit' of elder scrolls games is a bit disingenuous, as you could really apply that kind of statement to virtually any game on the market, you might even say it also captures the spirit of mario cart, after all, it does have vehicles in it that people can race in, or that it captures the spirit of farmville, because you know, you have to wait for stuff to grow, but i would definitely agree that Archeage does capture the spirit of farmville better than ESO does
Interesting, that trying to compare a RPG that has no PVP in it, to an MMO that is all about PVP, if anything Archeage has closer ties to Darkfall;Unholy Wars than it does anything Elder Scrolls related, they have a hell of a lot in common too, although personally i think the graphics in DF;UW are slightly better, which is kind of bizarre, but both Archeage and DF;UW are PVP MMO's in a 'fantasy' setting, both have 'safe' areas, and both lay claim to being 'sandbox' games, although imo DF;UW has a much stronger case for being one, and Archeage remains a mostly themepark experience, with linear questing/area grinding based on level. That in itself sets it apart from Elder Scrolls games, as they don't tend to have level based areas, saying that it 'captures the spirit' of elder scrolls games is a bit disingenuous, as you could really apply that kind of statement to virtually any game on the market, you might even say it also captures the spirit of mario cart, after all, it does have vehicles in it that people can race in, or that it captures the spirit of farmville, because you know, you have to wait for stuff to grow, but i would definitely agree that Archeage does capture the spirit of farmville better than ESO does
And ESO captures the spirit of a typical themepark linear bori boring as hell mmo. I don't agree with the column but one
I can see where this column is coming from. I do not think the writer was paid , it is a valid opinion and one that bears more reading without prejudice. Good job.
Comments
Nicely written piece. I haven't played ArcheAge, so can't comment on that, but I had the same issues with ESO. That, in essence, ESO failed to capture the feel and spirit of other Elder Scrolls games (beyond what changes were necessary to make it an MMO, which are recognised and acknowledged). I know many, many others feel the same. Fanboys can and will dismiss your perfectly valid points, as is their wont, but they shouldn't blithely dismiss these very real issues that have been said many times by reviewers and customers.
So you posted a link to an article with a reasonable discussion idea to a forum full of fanboi's who've drunk the Kool-Aid and you got a negative reaction, (go back to WOW!) and are surprised?
Perhaps this is the site of reason after all.
If you read the article, it is one man's opinion, (not a MMORPG employee) and merely points out that AA plays more openly than ESO does, making it resemble ES games more in his opinion.
He didn't speak in absolutes, qualified his play time in AA and overall wrote a pretty decent article.
ESO is a very linear, traditional theme park design, and lacks much of the freedom AA permits so I agree with the OP.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was a good article. Always nice to see how others view the game world.
As to these games, I have played both and like neither which is kind of odd because I thought that AA would be my next main game since I really like sandbox games. While AA has some sandbox elements, it is still has a themepark at it's heart.
Kyle was rather accurate about my own issues with ESO. I will let him off the hook because he really has not had much time to get familiar with AA. AA's huge issue for me, too much of the crafting is tied to the item shop. That is a huge no no in my book. I know people will disagree with that, but even subscribers are going to have to face that issue at some point.
Secondly I found both the pve and pvp in AA to be highly boring, granted pvp at max level with be different, but it won't be that different.
For those proponents of either game, I wish you many hours of enjoyment, but when you come to the forums lauding your game, expect to get called on it because neither really measures up. I will say this for Trion, AA is far more heavily cash shop based in Korea. Trion did try to lessen the reliance of the game on it, but they could only do so much without making the game extremely hard to patch with new updates.
I just hope Kyle ignores all the people flaming the article because he really did a nice job with it.
Not just your opinion:
Metacritic
Morrowind - 89%
Oblivion - 94%
Skyrim - 96%
ESO - 71%
Yes, because you can see in their client list a whole slew of MMO developers that they cater too, like Trion.
Such as:
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
This article should be deleted and if it were possible burnt! AA has nothing that even resembles an " Elder Scrolls " feel.. Nothing at all.
Not the combat.
Not the exploration.
Not the quests.
Not the crafting.
Not the look or the feel.
What else am I missing?
Dumb article is dumb.
So, let me get this straight:
"I’d join them, of course, because I’d be foolish not to."
He sees people repeatedly killing bosses then decides to join them and now hates the game... umm, am I missing something here? I've played ESO since beta and not once have I played Combat Simulator Slot Machine.
TL;DR Monkey See, Monkey Do, Blame the Game
You definitely missed the point the author was trying to make, went right past you. Perhaps a closer re-read would help?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I........errrr......ummm........I........
I'm speechless, I just don't know what to say to this column. All I can do from here is log out of my browser and go back to Skyrim shaking my head in disbelief.
With the eternal supply of questing and assorted mods Skyrim still supplies endless adventures for me.
I feel the same way about ESO as they put you on a tight road and constantly make it tighter. I loved the variety in the beginning. I could do quests, take a break by grinding a few dungeons, or just jump on my horse and explore zones for a change of pace. Didn't have to craft in order to enjoy the game unless I wanted.
AA is just to new to form an opinion on. It could easily end up another Eve. So far I like it and the theory of how things are implemented. Only time will tell.
I really enjoyed your article. Thanks.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I actually think the ES lore is the most important thing in the ES universe... I can get freedom in lots of MMOs already (darkfall...), but it's wrapping them within the ES lore that's the interesting part. They've wrapped it up pretty well in ESO. Lore+Atmosphere.
The problem I think is the following: the author didn't care about the story, but cared about the free-form experience. I say there are a ton of "freedom-filled" games and it's difficult to consider Archeage doing it in the way that exemplifies Skyrim/Morrowind. Archeage may do it the Archeage-way, but it will never feel like an Elder Scrolls game.
Elder Scrolls 6 will be fun with the co-op play though (haha).
Elderscrolls are not sandboxy.
They are single player games that broke from the traditional 1 long huge story arc to a compilation of smaller somewhat connected but non-interdependent story arks that may or may not tie in. There is nothing sandboxy about ES games other than an open world, but that's due to the multiple story arks more than anything else. Everything else about them is theme park. Even Hearthfire is still all predefined housing. You can't even decide where to place the items you build for your home.
Note: There are mods that make ES games sandboxy, but those aren't from Bethesda
Right because all those dozen mods everyone runs with are all the ones that make Elder Scrolls Sandboxy.
Yes.
Nice article.
The funny part are the comments. Seriously people, the article is just a personal experience, the games involved could very well be different ones and the result would be the same. Why are the trolls/rabid fans always reacting only to the game titles in the articles and not to the experience described?
To the author: Welcome in the group of mature MMORPG players :-) Now you understand what it is all about.
I love Skyrim, I have more than 800 hours played (according to Steam). However, I have not yet finished the main story quest line. Ever.
I also enjoyed playing ESO, but got side-tracked after a month or two and simply haven't gone back yet. I might return at some point, unless I get lost in some sandboxy game like AA...
But I can wholeheartedly agree with the author that "AA captures the ES spirit better than ESO". I play AA much the same way as I played Skyrim. I stopped questing after about L16 and since then I've been farming, trading, exploring and PVP'ing. I didn't wait for the magical "L30" to start enjoying AA, I started when I wanted to.
And ESO captures the spirit of a typical themepark linear bori boring as hell mmo. I don't agree with the column but one