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MMOs and VOIP: Why do some communities make full use of it, and some just fall on the wayside?
Triadninja
Member Posts: 111
Whenever I find myself playing an MMO, I generally will keep to myself, however most of the time this will cause me to play an MMO for about a month before I get bored.
However, if you drop in friends/VOIP(Such as Mumble, Ventrilo or Teamspeak) I start finding myself playing for a whole extra month, sometimes 2 extra months. It follows along the same ideals of "games are more fun with friends" and so on and so forth.
But knowing that, why is it that I have a hard time finding guilds or groups in MMOs (With the exception of EVE, WoW, and usually older MMOs such as Anarchy Online) that utilize VOIP? I'll play a game like TERA with the intention of playing the game, but also finding a guild or group that I can socialize with and do stuff in the game with through the use of a VOIP program. But when I go to try to find said guild or group, (the only way I know how, AKA asking around in zone chat, since the Guild Recruitment system in that game is dead) it falls on deaf ears, or just seems to not exist.
I'm know there are other MMOs out there where the community seemingly doesn't use a VOIP program of some sort, but why is it that many MMOs where guilds or groups just straight up don't use it? Is it because more people would rather type than use VOIP, or some other reason?
Comments
I used to ask myself the same question, but in reverse: why is it that so many people won't have anything to do with you unless you get on their VOIP program?
That's part of the reason I don't play EVE or WoW...too many people are too suspicious of you if they can't talk to the person behind the monitor. Personally, I think it's a bit creepy, but I also know that other people think differently.
But lately, I've noticed that the use of voice chat has died down a bit. There's still a ton of people who use voice, and won't game without it, but there's just as many who'd just don't want that kind of intrusion. I've also noticed a segment of folks developing who used to game with VOIP, but no longer, because of the inconvenience. Remember, we used to actually call people on our cellphones, but now we find it more efficient just to text.
Frankly, the best solution from my angle is something so shockingly simple and sensible, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet: set aside some servers as "TeamSpeak Servers," others as "Ventrillo servers," and some as "Text only servers." That way, everybody can have a community that communicates in the same way.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
TBH, I am perplexed why developers haven't moved towards adding VOIP as a basic feature in MMOs. As gameplay seems to be moving towards the action variant, one would think that eliminating the need to type to your companions would be a natural evolution of gameplay.
I find it absolutely stupid that developers would add red circles you need to dodge in a timely fashion, but yet require a player to type to warn their companions.
Because:
1) Not everyone has a comfy mic to use
2) Not everyone wants to
Ever notice, when a female gets on a voice chat system, the general conversation quickly reaches the gutter and below? I have also met way too many players that engage their mouth before engaging their brain.
Overall, it is not a bad idea, and I don't mind VOIP too much. Too many players can not handle themselves in mixed company, though, for it work effectively.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
That was a big thing in the late 2000s. Champions had in game VOIP, LOtR had it, Auto Assault had it...if I'm not mistaken, WAR had it. Games like EVE incorporated it post launch.
But that kind of thing extracts a cost in terms of potential subscribers. It isn't clear that folks who already use Ventrillo or TeamSpeak like integrated voice, but scares off customers who don't want voice and don't want the expectation that they'll have to deal with it. A lot of those games who launched with integrated voice chat either failed or failed to post big numbers.
Hence, you don't find many games today that launch with integrated VOIP. Integrating it provides no advantage to those who are already on it, and it scares away people who don't want it in their gaming experience.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I wonder if games released now would fair much better than before. With the rise of youtube/twitch gamers it would seem that players would not feel as much apprehension to using VOIP as a means to communicate.
Most people avoid VoIP, for a variety of reasons.
It could be Immersion-breaking, or people are shy, or people find it annoying, especially when you have teens and 20 year olds acting silly. Some people just want to relax, and not get caught up in guild drama that always happens in VoIP sessions.
The reason is a complex one, and it goes back to the topic of this thread.
For some games, people take advantage of in-game VOIP. For others, they simply ignore it like it doesn't exist. It's a perplexing million dollar question. As the choice to implement (and maintain) ingame VOIP is an expensive one. And if your gamers ignore it completely, it turns into a significant chunk of wasted money (though maybe not as much as $mil, depending on the game).
- As best I can tell, the only thing close to a pattern I can see on this topic is as follows:
Games that launch with fairly refined in-game VOIP (that is also well integrated into the game) tend to have their VOIP more heavily used by the community. Games that don't, but work their way up to an in-game VOIP tend to have a MUCH harder time with integrating such a feature. And it seems to be entirely based on gamer laziness / comfort. If gamers start out using a specific VOIP (vent, TS, raidcall, mumble, etc.) they are much less likely to switch clients unless they are forced to.
I really do not want to listen to you. You might not realize this, but your voice is annoying. You either are mumbling, or talking too loud and there is some odd, machine like sound going on in the background making it sound like you are in some factory. And why can't you put that baby too sleep, because he has been crying for the past thirty minutes. And if you could, could you get a decent microphone and one that does not have that annoying grating sound every time you try to talk. And speaking of actual talk, could you actually use complete sentences. If that is too difficult, can you stop swearing every fourth word.
Multiply that by five or six people per group or raid....well, and you can see why people do not want to use voice talk.
Many players do not like VOIP for many different reasons. My personal reason is immersion. When I am in a virtual world fighting alongside ferocious looking orcs, burly dwarfs, imposing trolls etc., the last thing I want to hear coming from those characters is the voice of a 12 year old kid. It just ruins the immersion factor. For me, when I'm in a virtual world the game is more than just a game board.
Although my girlfriend shares similar reasons for her not liking VOIP, her priorities differ. She predominantly doesn't like VOIP because as soon as she opens her mouth and speaks she gets hounded and followed around relentlessly. The minute that she logs on guys begin whispering her to group, do things, or just to chat. And it never stops. Sometimes she even plays with a male characters so that she could play in peace, though she doesn't do this often because she likes to play dress up a lot.
I also have friends who do not like VOIP because they have a house full of family members and its uncomfortable for both them and the family members for the player to be constantly yapping online. And yet others simply do not like the constant annoying gibberish that is often heard while using VOIP.
And then you have my brother. He doesn't like to talk, period. I don't think I have ever seen him talk on his cell phone. He can text with the best of them but he will fight you to the end if you try to coerce him to talk instead of utilizing text.
Those are just a few reasons that I've encountered but the reasons are many, I am sure. As a matter of fact, a very good argument can be made that the advantages to not using VOIP far outweigh the reasons to use it. IMHO, absent competitive play such as in FPS games I really don't see the reason to use VOIP. Not wanting to type simply because you are too lazy to do so is certainly not reason enough.
Most people that want it already have their own server and use the VoIP program of their choice.
Yes, people chat with VoIP for group content.
No, they are not likely to switch from the Mumble/RaidCall/TS/Vent/etc server they own and control to whatever limited feature is offered by the game. This is especially true of multi-game guilds, where there may be upwards of a dozen games the guild plays in and they all share one VoIP server. It defeats the purpose of them having their central VoIP server if one branch of the guilds is using a different service.
As for VoIP used for something other than raids and guild chat, I think APB:Reloaded is the only MMO I have seen where players actually use it to stand around in town and socialize with the locals, which makes me wonder if the universal fear of voice in local chat in MMOs is warranted or simply exaggerated.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
WoW's had it in-game since forever (which would help with randoms since you're talking about socializing without a guild). There was a big splash when the LFD finder went live that it was going to be the new default for PuGs... and then it wasn't. It's pretty much universally hated for the quality and I doubt most people even knows it's still there.
Recently I had the pleasure of experiencing it in-game via both neverwinter and defiance, only to have about half the random instance groups I join have that one guy who leaves his mic on and you get to hear the annoying static/mouth-breathing/feedback throughout the run (though thankfully you can now mute certain people).
Think the only time I ever found any use out of it was coordinating 8-mans in DAoC.
Yep...It seems like the typical story of why some VOIP users are going back to text. But I think it might be more than that. I think, also, a large segment of players are realizing that the "advantages" of voice comms, from a performance standpoint, are more psychological than real.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That is a good point. Why use a game option that leaves a person at a disadvantage to those that use a 3rd party option. This essentially answers the question of the OP.
People don't use VOIP because it is feature that hasn't been implemented properly into games.
Did you not read, totally disregard, or simply unilaterally decide to disqualify all the other posters stated reasons for not using VOIP? People don't use VOIP because they would rather not for the various reasons already stated on this thread. Its like players who absolutely insist on having global chat in their games and when there isn't, they come to forums screaming for it. Does it ever occur to these attention seeking souls that no one wants to hear their nonsense? Don't bother answering. Its a rhetorical question.
You just don't have much interesting things to say, and I don't want to hear you talk like a moron to impress, and i can't filter my ears but I can easily ignore typed stuff.
For more "serious" stuff related directly to the game (raiding, grouping, orgazing etc), Voice chat has its good uses.
Still, it messes with immersion, but games are so fast paced now that it's hard to live without.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
My statement encompasses every single previous post in this thread. They all listed problems that came about because of poorly designed systems, emergent problems, or alternative options. No system will be ever be perfect and this becomes painfully obvious because VOIP requires external hardware, but it seems that previous implementations were extremely bad.
erm ... ok.
We'll just all make believe only you can see every single previous post in this thread and take your word for it. Yes, including mine.
This is rather confusing to me, so perhaps you can elaborate.
Are you thinking that text-only players are a problem that needs solving? Because it seems that there are a lot of players who prefer to play text-only, without having to speak or hear others speak. This is, for me, a deeply held preference that we can't "fix".
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I am confused as well. The majority of the thread is about players posting that they simply prefer not to have VOIP for reasons having nothing to do with its implementation or hardware and everything to do with the fact that they simply do not want to voice or hear others voice. That includes the post just before he posted the above "every single post in this thread." Yet for some unknown reason he is fixated on blaming it on implementation and hardware. Perplexing I know. Sometimes, some things are just best left alone.
VOIP do have advantages from a performance standpoint. But MMOs are not really competive, nor challenging, and there text is more than enough for almost all cases.
In E-Sport games, especially small teams VOIP is standard. But that is another critical point.. VOIP does have a problem with more player at once talking.. ideally only one can talk at a time. With 2-8 players it is not much of a problem.. though even with 8 players you have to be somewhat disciplined. But in a 20 man raid? Just not worth it.. or you have to set it up that only some leaders can talk to give out specific commands.
Add then all the problems described by koboldfodder(and they are all true) it is not that unusual that VOIP will be used for small groups(mostly friends knowing each other very well.. and most probably outside of gaming), but not so much in environments with a lot of random people.
DayZ uses VOIP, and it will used most of the time.. but then again, there you usually have meetings between small amounts of player, one group of a few people meeting another small group out in the wilderness... and it even enhance the immersion, because it fits the setting. But that is not true for everygame.
DotA2 on the other side offers VOIP, but most don't use the official ingame voice and tend to mute most other players(in pub games) because of different languages and the problems koboldfodder described.. and most use private VOIP for their friends/group instead. In competive games with fixed groups it will be used.. though DOTA2 ofers a pledora of other communication means which will be used as extension nevertheless.
(about languages.. well that's most probably especially a europe only problem with a lot of people not talking or not willingly to talk in english.. like the well known russian in Dota2)
Any advantages due to VoIP are dependent on a need to communicate during a conflict--as opposed to being able to adequately communicate strategy before the conflict. Furthermore, that communication needs to to latency sensitive and not bandwidth sensitive, as you can read a lot faster than you can listen, especially with multiple people trying to send messages simultaneously.
Now, sometimes that does happen for group combat that needs to change a strategy on the fly to adjust to unexpected circumstances. This can happen in PVP a lot, but is considerably less common in PVE.
But there are disadvantages in addition to advantages, such as the disruption that obnoxious people can bring.
because i don't want to constantly hear people on my speakers or headphones when i am trying to play my game, its very annoying and immersion breaking for me.
i like to use voip when doing group or raid content but when i am not i don't like to use it. it also annoys me when you join a guild and they require you to get on and talk to them and socialize while doing random shit in the game.
i understand some people like that but i am not generally one of those people, i like to play my game and hear the sound of the game or listen to music while i play, not listen to random annoying people over my speakers.
Firstly, I realize that others have probably already said everything i am going to. But, as I came in late on this. And, am just settled from moving. I don't want to play catch up on reading every little back and forth right now, lol. So I am just going to give my general opinion on this and maybe someone finds it (or parts of it) useful...
I think that it is very much possible, that a developer looking at the option adding VOIP to their game has to confront two things:
1) Is it necessary; Or more precisely is it so necessary that money should be diverted from other areas of development to make it happen?
2) Can they do it better then preexisting services which many people who like VOIP probably already use?
So, in thinking about this two games I play often come to mind. Runescape and World of Tanks. On the note of weather it is necessary or not. The answer for either game is not unless you are working a lot with people you are very familiar with.
For World of Tanks:
A platoon in WoT might use VOIP. A big part of the strength of a platoon or clan in the game is better communication. Random Matchmaking can't utilize VOIP in-game. And, really shouldn't need to. Because, WoT has a rather efficient quick message system. Holding CTRL and clicking the map lets a player alert people about things rather easily. There is a tone that plays to your team and it game-message speaks the location and the nature of the alert in text (Could be requesting fire on, or a simple hey...pay attention to what is going on here). And, Holding down the z key lets you select from some quick message-to- team options (like defend base, help, affirmative, negative etc.)
You may not ever a play a random battle with the same group of people again. There may be 1-2 people you see frequently at your tier. But, the interaction with most the people you play alongside is going to be shallow. And, it is highly focused on what is going on at the moment. Anything more then quick messages is going to either be stupid arguments in chat (which no one wants to hear the voices behind), or short descriptive information like "I'm flanking.Bbe ready for him to turn on me and give you a good shot." or "I'm keeping them spotted and I have good cover and supportive fire. Arty focus on my location."
For the majority of play in WoT...VOIP would be more of an annoyance then it would be a blessing.
For Runescape:
RS has a pretty good quick chat system. A few hundred things you can say under quick key strokes that are easy to memorize. I believe it was initially put in so people who went and got them selves temp muted could still communicate enough to play until their muting is lifted. But, people started using it a lot. And, the system was built up. So much so that people use it for Minigames, Bossing, and PvP (and some skill training/activities) more then they use regular typing. RS also has a lot of chat channels and makes organizing different types of messages, and keeping it all strait fairly easy. On top of this there are a lot (and I mean a lot) of character animated emotes.
And, this probably came from RS having to make the most of text communication in a time before VOIP really took off. One of the few exceptions where someone might want VOIP in RS is when explaining something at length. Like how to train a skill most effectively or how to make money in game by a prescribed system. And for these kind of things runescape has twitch integration.
So, again for most of play it simply isn't necessary. And, in this instance where it is necessary they went with the option if integrating existing tech over developing something unique to their platform.
That isn't to say that some online play doesn't need it a lot more. Take something like CoD for instance. It is not unlike WoT in a lot of how it basically works. But, Reaction time in WoT is measured in seconds and even minutes. Reaction time in something like CoD is measured in milliseconds. Additionally if playing something like CoD. You are likely on a console or using a pc in a fashion similar to that which you might use a console (with a pc game pad controller and mic setup). These circumstances make typing out what you need to say not very viable. And, pretty much necessitate the use of VOIP in order to do well.
So, my overall thoughts on this are. Developers add it or support, as they feel is necessary. Putting it in as a luxury for those who may simply like it and want to play with others who like it....probably not a good enough reason to implement VOIP. Especially since any implementation is going to cost time and money to pull off.