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Time for some of you here to move on...
DonY81
Member UncommonPosts: 398
Give me some flak if you like but how many of you have not been truly happy with an mmo in ages. I really think that for a lot of folks round here it is simply time to just get onto something new or possibly time to throw the towel in with MMOs altogether. I honestly don't think ESO / AA and many others are that bad at all. I will admit im not playing them but ive been playing MMOs for a fair time too and am burnt out.
All I see about games recently released is bad hate. I mean come on i see people on here barking on about ultima and games that are like from 14 / 15 years ago. Surely to god 15 years is a long enough stint with 1 genre.... no?
Comments
Interesting we both kinda noticed the same thing at the same time.
I just feel there is more to it than just burn out.
I've always said video games effect the brain the same way narcotics does.
They create endorphins which in turn effect serotonin levels.
They are addictive just like a narcotic.
I think what we are feeling and seeing are the results of years of video game addiction coming to a head.
The brain is working just the same way it does in a drug addict, you constantly need a bigger and bigger fix to get that serotonin release, and the problem is video games have nowhere to go.
Video games can't really increase the fix, so our brains and bodies are freaking out just like they do in a drug addict that can not get the fix they need.
That was pretty deep Psilic but interesting.
I can agree with what youre saying.
I myself have talked negative of countless games since WoW (this isnt my first account) .I do long for the days of Everquest.
However,there are games on the Horizon that I always hold out hope for.Current ones for me are The Repopulation,Pantheon,WoD.Thus is why I stick around.
I am finished with Mainstream,big business, cookie cutter MMO's though.
Surely a gaming genre isn't limited to only your prime time.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
This logic would only apply to those who are truly addicted, which studies have shown to be around less than 2% of the playerbase. Therefore, those who are not addicted, but are simply unhappy with the direction MMOs have gone in, are just that, unhappy with the direction MMOs have gone in.
Just like everything in pop culture styles will come and go, and eventually come back around again in a slightly altered version. Unfortunately for those who enjoyed MMOs from 10-15 years ago, they may have outgrown gaming altogether by the time in rolls around again.
It's like with most drugs. You develop a tolerance. Everyone is looking for that first high, the bliss of being completely immersed forgetting time and the world around you. We can't seem to get that high any more.
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The anger comes from the fact that everyone got screwed at least once and we secretly know that the gaming industry is laughing their asses off and snorting cocaine on a yacht from a hookers belly button at our expenses.
Gaming journalists have less integrity than an Italian union rep and big gaming personalities turn out to be greedy and vindictive assholes. Even our heroes from the past are failures and can't give us the drug we need so bad.
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We all know that it's going downhill from here. Steam is growing into a faffing Godzilla with too much power and too little concern for the gamers, the quality of the games they sell and to top it off, no refund policies and customer service.
Others starting to try to get into our wallets with monthly fees and games as subscriptions ideas. Others with DLCs and Episodic bullshit. Unfinished games have become a standard. Money first, quality second.
We don't even own our games any more, WTF!
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Is there any reason we should not be angry? If there is, i sure like to know.
Pssshhh. Yahtzee caters to the casual, instant gratification crowd and has poor socializing tools. How lame is that? Boardgames, card games and dice games are on a steady decline!
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Interesting. I think they can be psychology addictive (but what can't?), but I don't believe they are chemically addictive like a narcotic.
While there most likely will never be the "perfect" MMO, so people will always be disappointed,..what has this to do with what other games/genre people play?
I also think that it's not just the players fault for having rose-tinted glasses because it was their first MMO and it's been so long, but also the developers fault for not delivering something that makes people long for it. They have so many more options today, the possibilities are literally endless. And yet they limit themselves to such a narrow window.
There have been games with multiple endings based on your playthrough in 1980 or so. UO had modular housing in the open world with theoretically hundreds of options (though usually limited to using only one style etc.). You could also decorate the interior as you like. Ttoday you get static instances, if anything at all.
On the shard that i played, every job had it's merit. I played one of only two carpenters, and once we teamed up and opened a shop along a popular road, we quickly became more famous than most people who could slay us in seconds, whether it was because of their character stats or because of the skills of the player. Heck, the king was someone who never touched a weapon (yes, that includes before he was famous and became king), and the killing of an innocent tailor (who also never ever touched a weapon - well, except the wrong end in that case) in my guild sparked a server-wide conflict between the good and evil guilds.
In Face of Mankind, every zone outside the faction HQs was open PVP. But almost no one got ramdomly killed. Why? Because one faction was the police. And one the army. Both had player created missions to patrol the public areas and to arrest bad guys, so players would actually get paid for that. While FoM had no skills (at least no combat related), you could tie a skill system to that. Instead of killing 10 rats and so.
The player base and available areas where both a bit limited, so sometimes you would patrol the same area the 5th time and still nothing would happen.
But with a big developer/publisher and a big budget, there could be done so much more.
You do not have to get rid of NPCs completely, "random" attacks like e.g. in Tabula Rasa (where they weren't really random..but they did take over the bases) could be integrated to spice things up. NPCs could randomly give crafters quests to retrieve rare minerals somewhere. The bad guys would automatically try to hunt the crafters down, while the police would try to protect them. With the police being stretched thin, someone might take that opportunity to pull a stunt in a public zone. Mabye take hostages, rob a bank. Things escalate and the army has to take control of the mining outposts and hunt down the criminal factions. To cover the cost of equipping so many soldiers for all out war, the army taxes the mining profits. Some trading faction might be inclined to team up with a criminal faction, promising them a (lower, compared to army tax) share of the profits. And so on.
Everything that was possible back then is still possible, plus a thousand, a million more things.
It might not be possible to do all that in a game running on Unreal Engine 4 and get everyone and his grandma to play it at the same time, but the game itself would be possible. Currently, indie games and some solo games are pushing the limits of video games. Minecraft is an obvious case. Deus Ex Human Revolution had a real-time (?) element with the first quest, where if you wait too long while exploring the Sarif HQ, the hostages would be killed. Assassins Creed 4 features sailing a ship and even naval combat. ArcheAge is supposed to feature something similar, maybe even bigger, but not much is known about it apparently, and it still has a lot of shortcomings of the traditional (the last 10+ years) MMO. Skyrim featured NPCs who would go to work and sleep etc, instead of being static. TSW had that somewhat with NPCs following/leading players on a quest in the open world, and other players still being able to talk to them. But they would not do anything on their own.
It' might not be cheap, it might not be easy, and not eveyone will like everything. But current MMOs are not even trying. We are just on the verge of a renaissance, of rediscovering features games once had 20,30,40 years ago. Maybe by 2020 someone will have done something truly new *in* a game (not talking about stuff like Oculus or motion control gadgets like Wii Mote or Kinect , where new stuff gets invented all the time)
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
WoD was cancelled sadly
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would love to quit my gaming addiction, and I really do try, its just hard to find a substitute, life does not really offer any alternative entertainment.
My life looks something like this; I work at a job during the day.
When I have free time I try to exercise or learn something/read.
After that there is a void, I try to fill that void with entertainment, like movies, series or games.
I've seen almost every anime and series available, even the 600episode stuff. I've seen about every movie thats interested me made the last 30 years.. I go to the theatre and sometimes I even go see musicals.. Still there is that void, what do you suggest i fill that void with, if not grinding a mmo? real drugs?
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
Because Golf will never change
What makes it frustrating for some of us that were around for the first main gen of mmorpgs (UO, EQ, AC) is that we got a "taste" of mmo's that were each VERY different. Comparing UO to EQ is like apples to oranges, they each offered something drastically different in terms of gameplay and focus.
These days? It's like every-single new AAA (IE non-indie/low budget) mmorpg is the SAME "game" just with a different paint job slapped over it.
When I first played UO, then EQ then AC it was like....well playing DIFFERENT games, each offered something new and different from the others. Now it's like post-WoW every mmo that comes out is quest focuseds, trinity class based, hotkey/tab target focused combat unless it's a small indie mmo that has hardly any budget (and thus little/no playerbase) with a lot of bugs/issues.
The "MMO" genre isn't like a normal "genre" of games, they can be drastically different between each other, they don't need or have to all follow the same basic "formula" (IEgenerally the one WoW established which was based heavily off EQ's themepark world/trinity class/hotkey combat).
I mean take SW:TOR and WoW, one Sci fi based rpg and the other a fantasy based rpg. You'd think Star wars and one of the last things most people expect/wanted was the ho hum generic "hotkey/tab target" combat of normal mmorpgs, but it's exactly what you bloody got.
I loved KOTOR as much as anyone else that played it but Star Wars: TOR had a huge chance to shake things up in terms of its gameplay, to separate itself from all the other mmorpgs that have come since WoW and failed, there's a huge graveyard of mmo's that have chased the WoW like formul aand didn't make it and yet even with all of the examples they still choose to follow the same path everyone else took.
At least SWG tried to go for a sandbox style game and it had a loyal fanbase until they drastically changed it up.
I have found myself playing mmo's quite a bit less these days than I did say just two years ago. Recently I have begun reading and watching some interesting youtubes featuring Richard Bartle.
The man is brilliant and for me it has been refreshing and very intriguing to sort of attempt to understand the entire idea of gaming in general.
It's personal preference and perceptions among other concepts that make each of our experience quite unique. While reading the OP's thread I wasn't necessarily angry, but more of a sort of darker gloomier feeling seemed to connect. I went and watched a portion of a Richard Bartle lecture on "gamification" and it's limitations and rather began to understand somewhat why I seemed rather down about mmo gaming in general. Bartle helps me put this hobby/ pass time of mine into perspective.
While I probably won't ever truly move on, I shall take breaks from time to time. Often it is a bit refreshing to go back to a character/alt I have made in an mmo I have not played in a while and discover what I have learned about playing mmo's in general. I found myself rejuvenated as I moved skills around on my ui thinking why in the world I had them the way I did. I found that a character I may have had difficulties with were simple due to my lack of attention to how that class was to be played at that time. I knew it must have been that I paid little or not attention to the definitions of the skills and what they did. After making my tweaks and moves in skills both damage and utility. I found that that character I almost deleted was now a lot more fun to play. Strange, but it was apparent that I played differently then than I do now. My knowledge base is keener now it seems from playing various mmo's that are slightly different in design.
Our experiences equal our learned knowledge and can translate when revisiting games we have not played in a while. I suppose, for me, it is the attempt to evolve as I gain experience. Additionally it how I deal with boredom and those downtime blues I tend to have during this time of year.
Thus, I have found myself feeling blue, but I have also discovered that if given a chance I can rekindle a bit of joy from rediscovery of old game mechanics. Richard Bartle brings a sort scholarly approach at understanding how these games we call mmorpg's were made. Like many things that seem rather convoluted or complex they all begin with a simple thought experiment. Thus i keep that idea mentally, when I review new games such as Archeage or Landmark, or Warlords of Draenor.
Seeing some very dark posts on the forum today, folks. You keep your head up and remember it's never as bad as it might be...
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
This is Exactly what people who have been playing MMOs as long as I have been keep saying. (I started in 1998 with UO) DDO, LOTRO, RIFT, SWTOR and countless other games are a copy of another game, they just reside in a different world with different lore. They all think they are going to be the next WOW. And Guess What? WOW was a one in a life time situation its not or will it ever be the MMO genera or what is best for the MMO genera. It was just luck of the draw at the right time. OP thats why people are longing for a UO type game again. Because it will help reset the MMO Genera and stop every person who can dream up a world to make an MMO out of it because they will for sure be the next WOW. WRONG WOW was a perfect storm. Thats all it was. Is it and was it a good game? Yes but can you copy it over and over and over again expecting ever copy to be as successful as WOW? Nope. 1 or 2 might do well but there is what like at least 8 other MMOs that are almost exactly like WOW?
Problem with the OP statement is that 15 years later I still quite enjoy games like EQ 1 emulators etc.. So really I am not sick of the genre it is just that after WoW it took such a radical turn in a direction that really doesn't appeal to me. There is hope that someone could get it "right" for a player like me still, so I will voice my opinion.
In the meantime I'll play EQ 1 emu and Neverwinter Nights persistent worlds, since they are the closest to what I am looking for. I am totally done with mainstream MMOs after GW 2 and ESO. They just are not fun for me. I might try that DnD virtual table top stuff as well.
Believe me, I've seriously considered it many times. What keeps me here is the vaguest, merest glimmer of hope.
Hope that someone, somewhere, sometime will remember what made MMORPGs great for me and many others in the past. With every new release, that hope dies a little. Currently, my hope is down to the merest embers.
Somethings about the old MMORPgs I did not enjoy that much. Most of what they offered, though, were right up my alley. But memories are made up of extremes. When a player is almost always successful, in almost everything they do, memories start blending together with nothing standing out. Old MMORPGs gave that difference. There were bad times a-plenty. But then the group would work together to overcome the bad and a GREAT memory was made.
The newer players now are looking for "entertainment only" and anything that does not go right the first time, is a waste of their precious time. They can not understand that that in order to get immersed, like many of us used to do, there needs to be good AND bad times. Life is not one rosy experience after another. I don't want my games to be ALL rosy without a bad experience here and there and for contrast. I equate this to being like drug use. The user is always looking for the next high, sometimes dreading that crash that comes afterwards.
So many players seek out that "perfect game." That sounds so boring to me. I want a game with faults. Faults that I can live with, of course, but faults nonetheless
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
MMOs today are pretty much the same. Classes, if they exist, are malleable. Races are aesthetically different, but not much more. Starting areas are getting fewer and fewer. Once I play 1 character in a modern MMO, I have pretty much played all characters.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR