People want a "living breathing world" in mmo but they want to ignore all kind of limitation of "living breathing world", for example wanting to craft as much as they want, craft while offline, craft while afk, put their toon in a 24 hour long crafting etc. I think Labor point really brings "living breathing world" vibe into mmo.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by grimalHere's where you lose me:"So, take this as you will, but what I do know is that Trion has actively been listening to and reacting on the player’s closed beta and alpha feedback between patches."Yet, I have seen no evidence they have listened to most (if any) feedback. I myself submitted a ticket CBT3 and received a canned response roughly a week later. The reply made no mention of my issue. I replied with my discovery and posted in the official forums as well as a reply to the email. Still nothing.Ok, no big deal, right?Then I see this thread on their forums.http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?36076-So-who-took-a-surveyFor those that don't want to click the link, 92,8% says no while 7% claims they did.The problem is that Trion didn't issue a survey to most players. How can they have listened to the players when they offered no means for players to provide concise feedback? Unless, of course, you are privy to inside information the rest of us don't know.
There is a very simple way for Trion honestly make that claim. That is to only poll/survey people who made use of the cash shop during beta...specifically those who may have bought labor potions. Surveying only those individuals would skew the data but still be technically honest.
Originally posted by jesteralways People want a "living breathing world" in mmo but they want to ignore all kind of limitation of "living breathing world", for example wanting to craft as much as they want, craft while offline, craft while afk, put their toon in a 24 hour long crafting etc. I think Labor point really brings "living breathing world" vibe into mmo.
Kinda breaks the suspension of belief when you're having a "living breathing world" vibe with your limited labor points while Mr. Moby Dick over there has basically nearly unlimited labor points as long as he's forking out the cash.
All this talk about the cash shop and labor potions seen on their own is just ignoring the game itself. Archeage is a game of BALANCE. Pve, pvp, crafting, fishing, almost everything in AA has weight and counterweight.
The problem with the cash shop per se is that it destroys the balance that the developers created. There are so many things Trion have messed up because of lack of knowledge about how the game works its unbelieveable.
The present situation with the LP potions (of which you can use on up to six characters for 3000 LP for the main character every 4 hours in addition to the normal LP generation) completely nullifies the idea of Labor points in the first place.
Trion might as well deactivate them - but they cost money in the shop, o wait...
You can please some MMO-players all of the time and you can please all MMO-players some of the time but you can't please all MMO-players all of the time.
LP is a cash grab + time gate inherited from web/mobile games. It exists solely for milking people from real money if they want to play the game - at all or while not being a cripple.
If you're concerned about economy health, then in game so focused on crafting like AA it should be only:
- irreversible decay (even with repairing) with some exceptions (boats, houses, etc.)
- maintenance, repair, rebuild costs (everything, no exceptions)
- properly balanced material income (gathering, crafting, farming mobs, etc.) and outcome (decay, repairs, maintenance)
- not turning game into geargrind ratrace and keeping gear as a tool for the job (for the most part at least) - which should be no brainer in pvp focused game like AA
And that's all is needed for healthy economy. Sword that never breaks is as stupid as hp potion that never ends.
Anyone saying the LP system is to protect the economy has been succesfully brainwashed by TRION and XL games PR machine.
Come on now! They just reduced the LP pot cooldowns from 12 hours down to 4 hours!! You still believe that economy excuse line? Even after this?
People with big wallets, can burn over 8000 LP per character per day! While a regular patron player has to do with 2000 LP per day.
Also, first they said Free players cannot own land due to not able to pay taxes! No worries, they just turned a full 180 on this and put Tax certs in the cash shop too!
They now basically just pulled a prank on the whole Patron status.
Not to mention putting those stupid gamble boxes in the store that have a chance to drop ultra rare crafting materials?
The LP system is nothing different than all those Energy / Crystal gauge systems you see in all these Facebook and mobile games.
EA got slapped by the EU comission not too long ago with one of their mobile games. And so will TRION when they release ArcheAge here in Europe and try to advertise it as F2P.
I say it because everyone is dying to know: How much did Trion pay you to write this article? How can anyone seriously say that this system is Good.
New System:
On this patch it is now 10 labor ever 5 minutes and 4 potions every 4 hours.
2,880 labor per day
24,000 labor per potions.
Now it's 8.3x as much labor as we get per day 90% of max labor per day is from cash shop potions. The famed and often defended as "balancing the economy" Labor System is 90% Pay2Win
I say it because everyone is dying to know: How much did Trion pay you to write this article? How can anyone seriously say that this system is Good.
New System:
On this patch it is now 10 labor ever 5 minutes and 4 potions every 4 hours.
2,880 labor per day
24,000 labor per potions.
Now it's 8.3x as much labor as we get per day 90% of max labor per day is from cash shop potions. The famed and often defended as "balancing the economy" Labor System is 90% Pay2Win
That, or he wrote the article some time ago and hasn't been aware of the changes that were implemented 2 days ago.
I say it because everyone is dying to know: How much did Trion pay you to write this article? How can anyone seriously say that this system is Good.
New System:
On this patch it is now 10 labor ever 5 minutes and 4 potions every 4 hours.
2,880 labor per day
24,000 labor per potions.
Now it's 8.3x as much labor as we get per day 90% of max labor per day is from cash shop potions. The famed and often defended as "balancing the economy" Labor System is 90% Pay2Win
That, or he wrote the article some time ago and hasn't been aware of the changes that were implemented 2 days ago.
Which does not really help his journalistic integrity. Maybe do a little research... oh wait, i forgot this is gaming journalism, no research required.
Labor potions as they are now in the cash shop (and the cash shop in general), are how they are because Trion claims that is what people want, based on a survey they claim Alpha / closed Beta players completed.
Problem is, if you look at the official forums, nobody from Alpha/Closed Beta was actually given a survey to fill in.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Labor potions as they are now in the cash shop (and the cash shop in general), are how they are because Trion claims that is what people want, based on a survey they claim Alpha / closed Beta players completed.
Problem is, if you look at the official forums, nobody from Alpha/Closed Beta was actually given a survey to fill in.
Dick Trempsy. /rest my case
(Just look what they have done to Defiance and all the much hated changes. They don't give a crap! They want to push people into the cash shop. Patron status is just a meaningless smokescreen.)
Hello mmorpg I'm XLGAMES representative tasked with paying you
Get back to me, my account not working
thx again, we will pay you for your labor efforts
Ps: we love your post about you want to put the average joe angry about the hardcore players and we love your creativity, but plz edit a little bit, they will know soon that they get ZERO labor points when they are not online, so hardcore gets just even more and they are the one who can stay online 24h each day, and this kind invalid everything you say, but we are sure you will bullshit your way out of this big error,
Just wait until the wars in the North Continent start. Clans with the most players willing to spend more cash than anybody else will always be the ones sieging others castles and owning the most territory.
You have to bid on an item in the AH in order to siege someone...Those with the most gold will always win it. Gold that will be easily obtainable now due to the lovely cash shop crap that people will rush to buy...like LP pots.
Ultimately the end game is PVP, controlling trade and territory.... All this can easily be done by a group of players dumping money into the cash shop which can be flipped right into game gold for the best gear, winning the sieging item and controlling the economy.
Wake up people , even with your head up your ass it's not that hard to figure out how end game will be in 6 months or less.
Trion have implemented a labor points system in Archeage which gates content but can be circumvented via a cash shop and we here at mmorpg couldn't be more thrilled...
I personally think that just because you have more time to devote to a game should not make you leaps and bounds ahead or better than everyone else. The people who play 10 hours a day will still have an advantage over casual players, LP merely tips the scales a bit. Plus if you farm gold enough, you will be able to buy LP pots on the AH.
LP is fine, it will all be fine.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
If I were a big spender, the 1st thing I would do is look for other big spenders and make sure we formed a guild together. Then we could form a super power and steamroll the game.
Originally posted by jesteralways People want a "living breathing world" in mmo but they want to ignore all kind of limitation of "living breathing world", for example wanting to craft as much as they want, craft while offline, craft while afk, put their toon in a 24 hour long crafting etc. I think Labor point really brings "living breathing world" vibe into mmo.
Except you can still kill for 24 hours straight so no, this does not add to the 'living breathing world'. Arbitrary caps that can be circumvented by spending cash (or gold even) do not add to a living breathing world.
Labor Points = monetization. You can try to justify it as something else so you can sleep at night, but 4 hour cd, cash shop potions are definitive proof that LP aren't about balance or limiting players. They are about creating a demand for cash shop items, even among subbers.
Yes I l too, like the Labor system in the game. The fact that you can trade them make this not pay to win. However, now I am worried that the 4 hour cool down and the ability not to be able to make the cool down account wide is actually going to be to much for the economy. We will just have to see how it plays out and I am confident they will adjust more if they need to . I was find with the Labor potions at a 12 hour cool down and I would have like them instead to have increased the regen rate of both patrons and free to play players and make the cool down account wide. Also give the free to play players a small labor regen while off line.
I am glad they took the tradeskill items off the market, they should have never been on there in the first place but it is what it is, and I am glad they listen. The Archeum boxes are gamble boxes and should not be named what they are named, most people trolling have no idea of this and think these just give archeum which they do not. However, there are legitimate claims of this appearing to be pay to win seeing that archeum drops are still to low and these boxes have a higher chance of rewarding you with the dust (please Trion get this fixed). So hopefully they will adjust this to be better so it does not look like a pay to win with these boxes as it does now.
If at first you dont succeed, call it version 1.0
In WoW I can buy a level 90. According to all the f2p whiners logic that means it's P2W, because I can buy an advantage over level 89 and below.
In GW2 I can buy gems and trade them for gold, then buy the best gear sets, which puts me at an advantage over anyone with less gear. According to the F2P whiners logic that means it's P2W.
In Hearthstone I can buy card packs and get all the legendaries right away, and build any kind of deck I want with the strongest cards in the current meta. According to the F2P whiners logic that means it's P2W.
I can keep going, but I think people get my point. Not one of these games are considered P2W by the public, so why should this game?
"You can by LP, sell them on the AH and buy the best gear!". Yep, and you can do things like that in any game. Hell, I can buy a full 90 account decked with full PvP gear in WoW if I wished. Is it condoned? No, but it's P2W.
You can't have it all folks, especially when you don't pay for it.
Comments
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
There is a very simple way for Trion honestly make that claim. That is to only poll/survey people who made use of the cash shop during beta...specifically those who may have bought labor potions. Surveying only those individuals would skew the data but still be technically honest.
Kinda breaks the suspension of belief when you're having a "living breathing world" vibe with your limited labor points while Mr. Moby Dick over there has basically nearly unlimited labor points as long as he's forking out the cash.
They have stated within that or another topic, that they did survey sampling.
I don't believe they picked especially cash shopers for it though.
But this kind of survey holds the risk of selecting a group of people that might all be cash shoppers.
Still, the pots are accessible from AH to anyone in the game.
The loudest people are the ones, who bought founder packs, and are now upset because someone else can purchase more win than them.
All this talk about the cash shop and labor potions seen on their own is just ignoring the game itself. Archeage is a game of BALANCE. Pve, pvp, crafting, fishing, almost everything in AA has weight and counterweight.
The problem with the cash shop per se is that it destroys the balance that the developers created. There are so many things Trion have messed up because of lack of knowledge about how the game works its unbelieveable.
The present situation with the LP potions (of which you can use on up to six characters for 3000 LP for the main character every 4 hours in addition to the normal LP generation) completely nullifies the idea of Labor points in the first place.
Trion might as well deactivate them - but they cost money in the shop, o wait...
You can please some MMO-players all of the time and you can please all MMO-players some of the time but you can't please all MMO-players all of the time.
Imho a gear based mmo is P2W when:
1. Gear has Stats and gives even a minor advantage either in PvP or PvE
2. Best Gear comes from any activity and its BoE
or
3. Best Gear comes from Crafting and its BoE
or
4. Best Gear comes from Crafting its BoP but you can buy all the mats
5. You can buy whatever out of the game and sell it in game for gold, either in small or large quantities.
When the above exists in the game then Its still P2W even If:
1. Its F2P / B2P / P2P
2. You can buy the Best Gear with any currency combination
3. You can buy ,using gold, the items that were bought with real money and resell them
That's how i see P2W in a mmo.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
LP is a cash grab + time gate inherited from web/mobile games. It exists solely for milking people from real money if they want to play the game - at all or while not being a cripple.
If you're concerned about economy health, then in game so focused on crafting like AA it should be only:
- irreversible decay (even with repairing) with some exceptions (boats, houses, etc.)
- maintenance, repair, rebuild costs (everything, no exceptions)
- properly balanced material income (gathering, crafting, farming mobs, etc.) and outcome (decay, repairs, maintenance)
- not turning game into geargrind ratrace and keeping gear as a tool for the job (for the most part at least) - which should be no brainer in pvp focused game like AA
And that's all is needed for healthy economy. Sword that never breaks is as stupid as hp potion that never ends.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DStuff
Anyone saying the LP system is to protect the economy has been succesfully brainwashed by TRION and XL games PR machine.
Come on now! They just reduced the LP pot cooldowns from 12 hours down to 4 hours!! You still believe that economy excuse line? Even after this?
People with big wallets, can burn over 8000 LP per character per day! While a regular patron player has to do with 2000 LP per day.
Also, first they said Free players cannot own land due to not able to pay taxes! No worries, they just turned a full 180 on this and put Tax certs in the cash shop too!
They now basically just pulled a prank on the whole Patron status.
Not to mention putting those stupid gamble boxes in the store that have a chance to drop ultra rare crafting materials?
The LP system is nothing different than all those Energy / Crystal gauge systems you see in all these Facebook and mobile games.
EA got slapped by the EU comission not too long ago with one of their mobile games. And so will TRION when they release ArcheAge here in Europe and try to advertise it as F2P.
Good Luck!
I say it because everyone is dying to know: How much did Trion pay you to write this article? How can anyone seriously say that this system is Good.
New System:
On this patch it is now 10 labor ever 5 minutes and 4 potions every 4 hours.
Now it's 8.3x as much labor as we get per day
90% of max labor per day is from cash shop potions. The famed and often defended as "balancing the economy" Labor System is 90% Pay2Win
That, or he wrote the article some time ago and hasn't been aware of the changes that were implemented 2 days ago.
Which does not really help his journalistic integrity. Maybe do a little research... oh wait, i forgot this is gaming journalism, no research required.
Labor potions as they are now in the cash shop (and the cash shop in general), are how they are because Trion claims that is what people want, based on a survey they claim Alpha / closed Beta players completed.
Problem is, if you look at the official forums, nobody from Alpha/Closed Beta was actually given a survey to fill in.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Dick Trempsy. /rest my case
(Just look what they have done to Defiance and all the much hated changes. They don't give a crap! They want to push people into the cash shop. Patron status is just a meaningless smokescreen.)
Hello mmorpg I'm XLGAMES representative tasked with paying you
Get back to me, my account not working
thx again, we will pay you for your labor efforts
Ps: we love your post about you want to put the average joe angry about the hardcore players and we love your creativity, but plz edit a little bit, they will know soon that they get ZERO labor points when they are not online, so hardcore gets just even more and they are the one who can stay online 24h each day, and this kind invalid everything you say, but we are sure you will bullshit your way out of this big error,
Just wait until the wars in the North Continent start. Clans with the most players willing to spend more cash than anybody else will always be the ones sieging others castles and owning the most territory.
You have to bid on an item in the AH in order to siege someone...Those with the most gold will always win it. Gold that will be easily obtainable now due to the lovely cash shop crap that people will rush to buy...like LP pots.
Ultimately the end game is PVP, controlling trade and territory.... All this can easily be done by a group of players dumping money into the cash shop which can be flipped right into game gold for the best gear, winning the sieging item and controlling the economy.
Wake up people , even with your head up your ass it's not that hard to figure out how end game will be in 6 months or less.
Archeage is basically a P2W game.
Even Archlord II is better.
I personally think that just because you have more time to devote to a game should not make you leaps and bounds ahead or better than everyone else. The people who play 10 hours a day will still have an advantage over casual players, LP merely tips the scales a bit. Plus if you farm gold enough, you will be able to buy LP pots on the AH.
LP is fine, it will all be fine.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Except you can still kill for 24 hours straight so no, this does not add to the 'living breathing world'. Arbitrary caps that can be circumvented by spending cash (or gold even) do not add to a living breathing world.
Labor Points = monetization. You can try to justify it as something else so you can sleep at night, but 4 hour cd, cash shop potions are definitive proof that LP aren't about balance or limiting players. They are about creating a demand for cash shop items, even among subbers.
Yes I l too, like the Labor system in the game. The fact that you can trade them make this not pay to win. However, now I am worried that the 4 hour cool down and the ability not to be able to make the cool down account wide is actually going to be to much for the economy. We will just have to see how it plays out and I am confident they will adjust more if they need to . I was find with the Labor potions at a 12 hour cool down and I would have like them instead to have increased the regen rate of both patrons and free to play players and make the cool down account wide. Also give the free to play players a small labor regen while off line.
I am glad they took the tradeskill items off the market, they should have never been on there in the first place but it is what it is, and I am glad they listen. The Archeum boxes are gamble boxes and should not be named what they are named, most people trolling have no idea of this and think these just give archeum which they do not. However, there are legitimate claims of this appearing to be pay to win seeing that archeum drops are still to low and these boxes have a higher chance of rewarding you with the dust (please Trion get this fixed). So hopefully they will adjust this to be better so it does not look like a pay to win with these boxes as it does now.
If at first you dont succeed, call it version 1.0
In WoW I can buy a level 90. According to all the f2p whiners logic that means it's P2W, because I can buy an advantage over level 89 and below.
In GW2 I can buy gems and trade them for gold, then buy the best gear sets, which puts me at an advantage over anyone with less gear. According to the F2P whiners logic that means it's P2W.
In Hearthstone I can buy card packs and get all the legendaries right away, and build any kind of deck I want with the strongest cards in the current meta. According to the F2P whiners logic that means it's P2W.
I can keep going, but I think people get my point. Not one of these games are considered P2W by the public, so why should this game?
"You can by LP, sell them on the AH and buy the best gear!". Yep, and you can do things like that in any game. Hell, I can buy a full 90 account decked with full PvP gear in WoW if I wished. Is it condoned? No, but it's P2W.
You can't have it all folks, especially when you don't pay for it.