To the people questioning the reticule or FPS combat decision - understand this (i think this has been mentioned already)
Tab target has been perfected and done with. It's an old system that can't be improved upon because it can't possibly change or get better really. Yes there can be some weird twists here or there, but in the end, most MMO gamers in this world have experienced it and are familiar with it. We've all been familiar for a while, if you're not I question your authenticity as a gamer, or the types of MMO's you indulge in.
Now, games evolve - if they didn't we would get bored.
If you want to play tab target games, or prefer EQ 1 or 2 type games, then they are available - just don't expect any modern company looking to make a profit to create a WoW carboncopy themepark. That cow has been milked since 2004. You can't milk her anymore shes dead and gone.
Now dynamic, action combat is where the PvP crowds are these days. This type of action combat has been seen in many games, it was a matter of time before a mainstream MMO adopted this and perfected it. The time is now, and SOE will most likely figure out the proper formula that everybody (PvPers, PvEers, casual hardcore) wants.
There will be many combat iteration phases, i'm so excited. The first phase in EQNL was funny looking, but it's defenitly the right step in my book and i'm a PvP fan.
You know what I fathom the most though? Imagining a type of advanced mix of PvP and PvE elements. Fighting open world bosses with advanced dynamic A.I decisions, whilst competing with other players in PvP.
The level of competition possible in this MMO is something unprecedented.
About tab targeting.
It isn't really the PvP that requires the removal of tab targeting but the entire game system as a whole.
For instance, in PvP or PvE how would you be able to target a spell at an overhanging piece of rock or a piece of ground. At the very least if you wanted to keep tab targeting you would also need to introduce a additional targeting system to allow point and click targeting....so why have 2 systems when you can just use 1.
Tab targeting would simply be too restrictive in a world that uses the Z axis as well the normal X and Y. In a world where you can interact with pretty much everything it would be a nightmare trying to cycle through objects as literally EVERYTHING would be a potential target.
1. Were we talking about just group content? I didn't think so because most MMOs don't have open dungeons. EQ is one of the few exceptions in that regard where zerging is possible in a dungeon. Zerging is the overwhelming of something with superior numbers, which is what we're talking about. The comparison to GW2 is,an attempt to slight EQN but there is no real comparison other than weapon based abilities. Not a very strong point.
2. I think you're playing word game. You can only play one class at a time and if that class has abilities, or can play the role, that a healer or tank does... you are playing that role. For instance, the Warrior reveal at Live '13 showed abilities that could keep mobs off of other players. That is being a tank, keeping your group mates from taking hits. Better IMO than stacking HP and yelling at them about their mother while you yell at the DPS for not watching aggro. It's a different method, sure, but I'm glad they are changing the formula to something that isn't so boring... and didn't make a whole lot of sense anyhow.
Healer... if you're abilities heal them... you are a healer. I've heard nothing about all classes getting heals so until I do the Cleric, for example, is a healing class.
3. I don't think the number of classes makes any difference. I agree with you though, damage can only be done so many ways. That's no different than any other MMO. I'm not sure why you are singling EQN out on this. It's about how the classes and abilities are packaged together, and we don't know that other than the Classes video from Live '14.
4. You may assume that the damage types are just to "justify" the classes but until we see them I action we wont know how different they feel, which is the only important aspect. Keep in mind part of the game itself is to find,and earn, these classes. It gives options to play styles and makes it fun in the process. As to the weapons and power types the result is the same. It allows for a broader usage of items and yes, "elements" will be a huge part of the game. Look at the AI video if you're going to stop dark spirits you'll want a set of gear set up for that type of encounter.
I would watch this, it does a lot better job explaining the damage types and power sources.
You can honestly put any title, or anything for that matter, under negative scrutiny and "find" what you're looking for. If you really don't want to like the game you'll find everything is wrong with it. Not because the title is not good, because you don't want to like it.
Originally posted by Aelious Rydeson (responses in chronological order)
1. Were we talking about just group content? I didn't think so because most MMOs don't have open dungeons. First of all.. I think you miss the definition of a dungeon.. You do realize that dungeons does not mean "INSTANCED".. I know many WoW players seem to have a hard time understanding what a dungeon is.. EQ is one of the few exceptions in that regard where zerging is possible in a dungeon. Zerging is the overwhelming of something with superior numbers, which is what we're talking about. The comparison to GW2 is,an attempt to slight EQN but there is no real comparison other than weapon based abilities. Not a very strong point. Not so.. It very much smells like GW2.. I"m sure the game mechanics will be similar as well.. A group of players will go around playing DPS combat roles, with minimal skills in anything else..
2. I think you're playing word game. You can only play one class at a time and if that class has abilities, or can play the role, that a healer or tank does... you are playing that role. For instance, the Warrior reveal at Live '13 showed abilities that could keep mobs off of other players. Having the skill that temporarily impedes the enemy doesn't make you a tank.. That is being a tank, keeping your group mates from taking hits. And according to SOE they removed the taunt/agro function, so the only other way to do what you say, is to spam "knockdowns and stuns"? Better IMO than stacking HP and yelling at them about their mother while you yell at the DPS for not watching aggro. It's a different method, sure, but I'm glad they are changing the formula to something that isn't so boring... and didn't make a whole lot of sense anyhow. You are basing all this off WoW Trinity.. NOT EQ trinity or similar.. EQ tanking was not about taunting or HP stacking.. FYI..
Healer... if you're abilities heal them... you are a healer. Really? so everyone with a bandage is a healer? I've heard nothing about all classes getting heals so until I do the Cleric, for example, is a healing class. So you can assume here, but I can't? double standard?
3. I don't think the number of classes makes any difference. I agree with you though, damage can only be done so many ways. That's no different than any other MMO. I'm not sure why you are singling EQN out on this. It's about how the classes and abilities are packaged together, and we don't know that other than the Classes video from Live '14. It's called integrity and appearance to deceive.. SOE saying they have 40 classes is a marketing stunt to generate interest.. Can that be considered disingenuous? YES it can.. Which then allows me to question the seriousness of other statements too.. I hold EVERY company to a level integrity, rather it be fast food chains or department stores.. OR even the Auto companies that are notorious for fuzzy math and facts.. lol
4. You may assume that the damage types are just to "justify" the classes but until we see them I action we wont know how different they feel, which is the only important aspect. Keep in mind part of the game itself is to find,and earn, these classes. It gives options to play styles and makes it fun in the process. As to the weapons and power types the result is the same. It allows for a broader usage of items and yes, "elements" will be a huge part of the game. Look at the AI video if you're going to stop dark spirits you'll want a set of gear set up for that type of encounter.
I would watch this, it does a lot better job explaining the damage types and power sources.
You can honestly put any title, or anything for that matter, under negative scrutiny and "find" what you're looking for. If you really don't want to like the game you'll find everything is wrong with it. Not because the title is not good, because you don't want to like it.
And I have.. There hasn't been a game in the last 10 years that I haven't critiqued.. Some more so then others.. And not to toot my own horn, I still haven't played the WoW killer.. Every couple years there is always the "next" king of the mountain game coming out and every time, they fail.. Rift? cough SWTOR? cough FF? cough ArcheAge? cough
BTW. just to be funny.. when it comes to the new "combat" twitch thing.. The US MILITARY uses mostly tab targeting.. Those cruise missiles don't use a reticle.. and neither do the A1 Abrams.. /shrug.. Shoot.. Torpedoes have used tab targeting guidance systems for over half a century..
Originally posted by Aelious Rydeson (responses in chronological order)
1. Were we talking about just group content? I didn't think so because most MMOs don't have open dungeons. First of all.. I think you miss the definition of a dungeon.. You do realize that dungeons does not mean "INSTANCED".. I know many WoW players seem to have a hard time understanding what a dungeon is.. EQ is one of the few exceptions in that regard where zerging is possible in a dungeon. Zerging is the overwhelming of something with superior numbers, which is what we're talking about. The comparison to GW2 is,an attempt to slight EQN but there is no real comparison other than weapon based abilities. Not a very strong point. Not so.. It very much smells like GW2.. I"m sure the game mechanics will be similar as well.. A group of players will go around playing DPS combat roles, with minimal skills in anything else..
2. I think you're playing word game. You can only play one class at a time and if that class has abilities, or can play the role, that a healer or tank does... you are playing that role. For instance, the Warrior reveal at Live '13 showed abilities that could keep mobs off of other players. Having the skill that temporarily impedes the enemy doesn't make you a tank.. That is being a tank, keeping your group mates from taking hits. And according to SOE they removed the taunt/agro function, so the only other way to do what you say, is to spam "knockdowns and stuns"? Better IMO than stacking HP and yelling at them about their mother while you yell at the DPS for not watching aggro. It's a different method, sure, but I'm glad they are changing the formula to something that isn't so boring... and didn't make a whole lot of sense anyhow. You are basing all this off WoW Trinity.. NOT EQ trinity or similar.. EQ tanking was not about taunting or HP stacking.. FYI..
Healer... if you're abilities heal them... you are a healer. Really? so everyone with a bandage is a healer? I've heard nothing about all classes getting heals so until I do the Cleric, for example, is a healing class. So you can assume here, but I can't? double standard?
3. I don't think the number of classes makes any difference. I agree with you though, damage can only be done so many ways. That's no different than any other MMO. I'm not sure why you are singling EQN out on this. It's about how the classes and abilities are packaged together, and we don't know that other than the Classes video from Live '14. It's called integrity and appearance to deceive.. SOE saying they have 40 classes is a marketing stunt to generate interest.. Can that be considered disingenuous? YES it can.. Which then allows me to question the seriousness of other statements too.. I hold EVERY company to a level integrity, rather it be fast food chains or department stores.. OR even the Auto companies that are notorious for fuzzy math and facts.. lol
4. You may assume that the damage types are just to "justify" the classes but until we see them I action we wont know how different they feel, which is the only important aspect. Keep in mind part of the game itself is to find,and earn, these classes. It gives options to play styles and makes it fun in the process. As to the weapons and power types the result is the same. It allows for a broader usage of items and yes, "elements" will be a huge part of the game. Look at the AI video if you're going to stop dark spirits you'll want a set of gear set up for that type of encounter.
I would watch this, it does a lot better job explaining the damage types and power sources.
You can honestly put any title, or anything for that matter, under negative scrutiny and "find" what you're looking for. If you really don't want to like the game you'll find everything is wrong with it. Not because the title is not good, because you don't want to like it.
And I have.. There hasn't been a game in the last 10 years that I haven't critiqued.. Some more so then others.. And not to toot my own horn, I still haven't played the WoW killer.. Every couple years there is always the "next" king of the mountain game coming out and every time, they fail.. Rift? cough SWTOR? cough FF? cough ArcheAge? cough
BTW. just to be funny.. when it comes to the new "combat" twitch thing.. The US MILITARY uses mostly tab targeting.. Those cruise missiles don't use a reticle.. and neither do the A1 Abrams.. /shrug.. Shoot.. Torpedoes have used tab targeting guidance systems for over half a century..
Rift - One of the best end games I have seen. Very unique class system. Has a steady support of core players. Lots of new content from launch forward.
SWToR - Keeping strong with about 400'000 - 500'000k subs and new content every year and a good portion of it free.
FF - sales did well and the servers that are running have a close community doing the content. Free content updates and has a fan base thats supporting the game well (worse launch since WoW)
AA - Game has not been out of the gate a few weeks yet and its a fail? I think the worst thing to happen to MMOs is the hoppers that never stick around long enough to see the game come out of the launch pains. I think we are to quick to judge the monster games we call MMOs.
You have a big axe to grind with SoE and EQN that no amount of information or discussion is going to penetrate. That's fine, it doesn't matter to me what your interests are.
My interests are making sure my time is well spent. Arguing point by point when said points are misconstrued or my "experience" made the subject is not worth my time, so I'm not going to do it. I try to engage in real debate.
For example, the first subject was about zerging, not knowing what dungeons are. I started playing MMOs with EQ 11 years ago. I'm well aware of what dungeon types are out there. Like the comment about healing. Bandages? Really?
You have a big axe to grind with SoE and EQN that no amount of information or discussion is going to penetrate. That's fine, it doesn't matter to me what your interests are.
My interests are making sure my time is well spent. Arguing point by point when said points are misconstrued or my "experience" made the subject is not worth my time, so I'm not going to do it. I try to engage in real debate.
For example, the first subject was about zerging, not knowing what dungeons are. I started playing MMOs with EQ 11 years ago. I'm well aware of what dungeon types are out there. Like the comment about healing. Bandages? Really?
Yea i'm not going to bother arguing with someone like that. His head is riddled with misinformation about EQN, and he appears very hostile for the very little he knows about the game.
Odd somebody gets soo wound up over something in which they don't understand.
Games are changing and evolving soo much these days... i guess some people just can't keep up:)
As you said, they haven't shown off many things yet. They've shown nothing that would give me the indication that classes in the same role or not will be highly similar
If you go in wanting an EQ Enchanter reborn, probably not going to happen as this isn't EQ 2014. Different game, different design and they've made it clear I'd hope. Which is a contradiction in logic and numbers.. How can you have 40 classes and not have one that plays like the EQ Enchanter or Bard? or is it possible that 40 classes are just nothing more watered down skills of similar number just colored different?
Or something more like I said? Dota2 has over 100 "classes" how many are like EQ Enchanter/Bard? Not saying EQN will have MOBA like classes, but it is possible that certain "roles" aren't needed in the exact same way as another game with a completely different set up. How can they not have Taunt/Heal bots? Simple, they didn't design the game that way. Again, is is possible that there will be some sort of CC/illusion (whatever you like about Enchanter) type classes? Of course, but we don't know enough yet.
Now if you want a support/CC type class? Who knows, very possible, even within the scope of the action combat and what not. sorta like GW2? no thanks..
Huh? GW2 classes are built with 1 vs 1 PVP in mind. GW2 is not a PVE game. Every class can do everything by default and then spec to be better at a particular thing at a time. Nothing shown so far points to EQN being like this.
I loved the EQ Bard along with all the DAoC and WAR classes that were pretty unique compared to the traditional EQ/WoW fantasy roles.
You're right in the literal sense that gear won't "change" skills, but the impact gear, achievements, and other skills might have on one in particular could be quite huge. or NOT..
Can't argue with that logic.
Yes Dash and Blink are similar, just like Fireball and Arrow or Stun and Sleep. These are games, there are limitations. Not sure what you're proving, or disproving.. I view classes as UNIQUE in abilities and playstyle.. Color coding doesn't make one different.. I can call it a "sharpshooter" and your team can call it a "marksman".. but if they use the same skills with same effects, they are the same damn class..
Like I said, you might not enjoy EQN then. No one knows, but I'm assuming there will be similarities between classes simply because making 40 100% unique classes is pretty hard. As you've said, there are only so many roles and skills to work with. If you hate variety and like a small pool of classes, not the game for you. If you define "unique" in your own way and it doesn't fit with what is there, well then it isn't "unique" in your mind. For me, if I can go from a Rogue to a Thief and have a different way to play a role, I'm happy. I don't need them to be nothing like the other.
Think the biggest help to get my mind into it is to see EQN classes as simply the foundation of builds. Unique to my tastes. Not predetermined by the devs or meta. Actually I don't view them as classes at all.. They are nothing more then unlockable skill packs. These so called classes are ALL "origin" dependant.. Look at this way, remove the origin dynamic from the classes and skills, and what is left?
Which is what they are going for I think. They don't want players being "Warriors" or "Rogues" they want players to play characters that can do any number of things and to throw time/money at the game trying to experience it all. Which is probably why they said the "mmorpg" title probably isn't the best fit. While sure you can RP as whatever, most won't be "Enchanters" they will be adventurers with a huge tool kit to work with which happens to be packaged within a class with some sort of unique flair.
If you boil things down long enough, most things start looking like a puddle of ooze, no real reason to though unless you really like ooze. Hey, leave the ooz alone, he did nothing wrong here.. ha ha ha
BTW, there is a lot of ooze already out there.. and Why? LACK OF INFORMATION from SOE.. There are just some simple things I like to clear up.. If they are willing to do it..
They will in time. At this point though, it changes nothing beyond what we can argue about. They could give a list of 500 skills, doesn't mean much without the list of 5000 items, 1000 achievements, how any of it actually works, etc. We need the full picture and until then it's just meaningless talking in circles about what we want and think is best.
I highly doubt things are going to be all glorious as Georgie wants to promote.. I"m not sold on the classes, and the AI is still on the chalkboard.. It still appears they are trying to make both a PvE and PvP balanced game and I have yet to see one of those made.. PvE and PvP mix as well as oil and water.. They don't..
I've yet to see anything that makes PVP a star of EQN. Beyond vague comments by a non-dev (Smed), everything shown is PVE or at least the typical PVP systems I'd come to expect (instead of dev created arenas, now we have player made ones, woohoo...).
First of all.. I think you miss the definition of a dungeon.. You do realize that dungeons does not mean "INSTANCED".. I know many WoW players seem to have a hard time understanding what a dungeon is..
Having the skill that temporarily impedes the enemy doesn't make you a tank..
Really? so everyone with a bandage is a healer?
SOE saying they have 40 classes is a marketing stunt to generate interest.. Can that be considered disingenuous? YES it can..
Problem is you have your definitions and everyone else has theirs. You are no more correct then anyone else.
If you don't consider EQN's "classes" to be classes based on your opinion and XYZ requirements, then they aren't classes. Those that have different views might see them just as described by SOE.
Same goes for anything else. Maybe a "healer" is the heal bot spammer stare at HP bars doesn't exist in EQN, doesn't mean a class couldn't fill that role through other means.
Other games have done this already. WAR (OP's game), DAoC, Vanguard, GW1.
Despite the joy to say that every game is a WoW clone or in turn an EQ clone, many games have done things quite differently.
GW2 is a terrible PVE game to me. There are no roles really, simply classes that may do certain things a little better/worse in certain situations that might resemble roles.
Again, if you expect X = Y, you won't find it. Simply doesn't make any sense for EQN to have what a game like EQ has because they aren't the same game, the devs have tried to make this clear. They've said basically "If you want EQ, play EQ." No confusion or disingenuous lies or anything to confuse people.
Trying to shoehorn in something you like/want into something not designed for it doesn't make sense to me. Sucks for you, but doesn't detract from what many of us are looking forward to.
Mark my words, the A.I in this game is going to be the most advanced A.I in an MMORPG ever.
This means that, the world in EQN is going to be more dynamic than any other MMORPG to date.
'It also means that the PVE in this game has the possibility (this is up to SOE), to be the most intricate challenging PvE in an MMORPG ever.
Sure, it can be more advanced, but that doesn't automatically mean it's better. Innovation has a way of introducing a lot of trade-offs. A lot of new and unforeseen issues that come from new and unproven systems. Anet had to deal with that, so will SOE.
In the end Anet made a good game. One I really enjoyed. But I didn't think it was any major step forward for the genre. It wasn't due to lack of new systems, but new systems that brought their own new problems.
Definitely Aion for me. I had such a hard time waiting, i went to play on the Chinese beta servers even though i couldn't read eanything. Aside from EQ1 that is the only game that I played non stop for more than 3 years. I finally stopped for about 6 months due to financial issues, but then it went F2P and i started up again and finally quit playing about a month or 2 after the Aethertech class was released. Behind EQ1 it was my most favorite MMO. I had all vanilla classes maxed before lvling was made easy mode, and that is how much i enjoyed it!
Mark my words, the A.I in this game is going to be the most advanced A.I in an MMORPG ever.
This means that, the world in EQN is going to be more dynamic than any other MMORPG to date.
'It also means that the PVE in this game has the possibility (this is up to SOE), to be the most intricate challenging PvE in an MMORPG ever.
Sure, it can be more advanced, but that doesn't automatically mean it's better. Innovation has a way of introducing a lot of trade-offs. A lot of new and unforeseen issues that come from new and unproven systems. Anet had to deal with that, so will SOE.
In the end Anet made a good game. One I really enjoyed. But I didn't think it was any major step forward for the genre. It wasn't due to lack of new systems, but new systems that brought their own new problems.
I'm telling you hands down, with my feet in the air too, that it will be better. You don't seem to have thoroughly understood how storybricks functions. The information is out there, infront of you, to understand. Personally i've studied A.I myself, and have an understanding of it which also enables me to understand what storybricks is about. This isn't some scheme or hype of progression in the ability of A.I, it's the real thing.
The purpose of an Alpha and beta, is to iron out the kinks, if you think an MMO the size of EQN is going to roll out perfect or completely flawed and failed, then you don't really get it.
This game is truly striving to become something - what you and a majority of MMOers these days don't get, is that after World of Warcraft, not much happened. Now with the increasing power of computer hardware we are enabled to design games which have engines and features previously impossible to implement - therefore the mold can be broken. it's all about time and money.
Or maybe i'm just all wrong , and Tank and spank, DPS, healbot stand-in-the-back-AFK is what people are still demanding these days ? Maybe some of these people are stuck in a time and place whilst some others have continued to live in "reality" and in current time and space?
Mark my words, the A.I in this game is going to be the most advanced A.I in an MMORPG ever.
This means that, the world in EQN is going to be more dynamic than any other MMORPG to date.
'It also means that the PVE in this game has the possibility (this is up to SOE), to be the most intricate challenging PvE in an MMORPG ever.
That little highlight, my friend is the key to your whole statement. SOE is not the company it once was back in the days of EQ! They have not produced a solid, smooth performing game in a long time. Even now EQ2 is riddled with memory leak lag issues for most gamers. I played Landmark a few times and even recently the system just performs like crap. SOE has a reputation of not being able to optimize their games for a broad performance on different rigs.
That said I do like the hyped concepts, but until it shows a more tangible reality I remain a skeptic.
Mark my words, the A.I in this game is going to be the most advanced A.I in an MMORPG ever.
This means that, the world in EQN is going to be more dynamic than any other MMORPG to date.
'It also means that the PVE in this game has the possibility (this is up to SOE), to be the most intricate challenging PvE in an MMORPG ever.
Sure, it can be more advanced, but that doesn't automatically mean it's better. Innovation has a way of introducing a lot of trade-offs. A lot of new and unforeseen issues that come from new and unproven systems. Anet had to deal with that, so will SOE.
In the end Anet made a good game. One I really enjoyed. But I didn't think it was any major step forward for the genre. It wasn't due to lack of new systems, but new systems that brought their own new problems.
I'm telling you hands down, with my feet in the air too, that it will be better. You don't seem to have thoroughly understood how storybricks functions. The information is out there, infront of you, to understand. Personally i've studied A.I myself, and have an understanding of it which also enables me to understand what storybricks is about. This isn't some scheme or hype of progression in the ability of A.I, it's the real thing.
The purpose of an Alpha and beta, is to iron out the kinks, if you think an MMO the size of EQN is going to roll out perfect or completely flawed and failed, then you don't really get it.
This game is truly striving to become something - what you and a majority of MMOers these days don't get, is that after World of Warcraft, not much happened. Now with the increasing power of computer hardware we are enabled to design games which have engines and features previously impossible to implement - therefore the mold can be broken. it's all about time and money.
Or maybe i'm just all wrong , and Tank and spank, DPS, healbot stand-in-the-back-AFK is what people are still demanding these days ? Maybe some of these people are stuck in a time and place whilst some others have continued to live in "reality" and in current time and space?
Glad you are so hyped but hate to tel you that you are more than likely going to be very disappointed. It is SOE after all and they screw everything up they touch. Smedley is long overdue to be let go. The combat is the worst I've ever seen, the art style is right out of "Frozen", and they have said they are targeting a completely new audience than they've already got.
This all adds up to a disaster to long time EQ fans. Stay hyped though and I hope you aren't cursing SOE and Smedly in the end.
Mark my words, the A.I in this game is going to be the most advanced A.I in an MMORPG ever.
This means that, the world in EQN is going to be more dynamic than any other MMORPG to date.
'It also means that the PVE in this game has the possibility (this is up to SOE), to be the most intricate challenging PvE in an MMORPG ever.
Sure, it can be more advanced, but that doesn't automatically mean it's better. Innovation has a way of introducing a lot of trade-offs. A lot of new and unforeseen issues that come from new and unproven systems. Anet had to deal with that, so will SOE.
In the end Anet made a good game. One I really enjoyed. But I didn't think it was any major step forward for the genre. It wasn't due to lack of new systems, but new systems that brought their own new problems.
I'm telling you hands down, with my feet in the air too, that it will be better. You don't seem to have thoroughly understood how storybricks functions. The information is out there, infront of you, to understand. Personally i've studied A.I myself, and have an understanding of it which also enables me to understand what storybricks is about. This isn't some scheme or hype of progression in the ability of A.I, it's the real thing.
The purpose of an Alpha and beta, is to iron out the kinks, if you think an MMO the size of EQN is going to roll out perfect or completely flawed and failed, then you don't really get it.
This game is truly striving to become something - what you and a majority of MMOers these days don't get, is that after World of Warcraft, not much happened. Now with the increasing power of computer hardware we are enabled to design games which have engines and features previously impossible to implement - therefore the mold can be broken. it's all about time and money.
Or maybe i'm just all wrong , and Tank and spank, DPS, healbot stand-in-the-back-AFK is what people are still demanding these days ? Maybe some of these people are stuck in a time and place whilst some others have continued to live in "reality" and in current time and space?
Glad you are so hyped but hate to tel you that you are more than likely going to be very disappointed. It is SOE after all and they screw everything up they touch. Smedley is long overdue to be let go. The combat is the worst I've ever seen, the art style is right out of "Frozen", and they have said they are targeting a completely new audience than they've already got.
This all adds up to a disaster to long time EQ fans. Stay hyped though and I hope you aren't cursing SOE and Smedly in the end.
Please add "in my opinion" or something... Cause while you might not like the combat (far from done btw), and the graphics, others (like me) likes it...
Well, the graphics isn't my preferred style, but I realize that you need a style like that to last for a long time... You wouldn't see Wow with 7+ Million players 10 years after release if it didn't have those graphics...
The combat is what I have been wanting for ages now... That's if EQN will use the same as Landmark, which I really hope. Tab targetting is old and boring IMO, and I hope I never see combat like GW2 has again...
In fact, I know there is a ton of people who have wanted twitch combat in an AAA MMO for ages now too, so they made a good decision (if it's used) by going with that...
MMO designs can't please everyone, so please stop demanding that they do... or rather, that they all please you...
Glad you are so hyped but hate to tel you that you are more than likely going to be very disappointed. It is SOE after all and they screw everything up they touch. Smedley is long overdue to be let go. The combat is the worst I've ever seen, the art style is right out of "Frozen", and they have said they are targeting a completely new audience than they've already got.
This all adds up to a disaster to long time EQ fans. Stay hyped though and I hope you aren't cursing SOE and Smedly in the end.
The long term EQ fans are not the target audience for EQ Next that is plainly obvious, they are welcome of course but EQ Next is trying to be something new and different, and I think that is a good thing. It is a small but very vocal group that wants something old style with updated graphics, and that is not going to happen. I think the character art style is good it will last longer than realistic art, and more models are incoming (remember the biggest complain against EQ2 today is the horrible outdated character models).
Twitch combat; well see what happens there, it is still very unfinished but it has possibilities. The current combat system is not very fun in PvP at the moment (Landmark) due to overpowered and unbalanced gear and they have to fix that.
The interesting thing is that so many complains about the lack of new thinking, the lack of new ideas, can't someone push the boundaries of MMOs and when a company tries to do it the comments are, Oh NO we want the old ideas and the old designs back.
Comments
About tab targeting.
It isn't really the PvP that requires the removal of tab targeting but the entire game system as a whole.
For instance, in PvP or PvE how would you be able to target a spell at an overhanging piece of rock or a piece of ground. At the very least if you wanted to keep tab targeting you would also need to introduce a additional targeting system to allow point and click targeting....so why have 2 systems when you can just use 1.
Tab targeting would simply be too restrictive in a world that uses the Z axis as well the normal X and Y. In a world where you can interact with pretty much everything it would be a nightmare trying to cycle through objects as literally EVERYTHING would be a potential target.
(responses in chronological order)
1. Were we talking about just group content? I didn't think so because most MMOs don't have open dungeons. EQ is one of the few exceptions in that regard where zerging is possible in a dungeon. Zerging is the overwhelming of something with superior numbers, which is what we're talking about. The comparison to GW2 is,an attempt to slight EQN but there is no real comparison other than weapon based abilities. Not a very strong point.
2. I think you're playing word game. You can only play one class at a time and if that class has abilities, or can play the role, that a healer or tank does... you are playing that role. For instance, the Warrior reveal at Live '13 showed abilities that could keep mobs off of other players. That is being a tank, keeping your group mates from taking hits. Better IMO than stacking HP and yelling at them about their mother while you yell at the DPS for not watching aggro. It's a different method, sure, but I'm glad they are changing the formula to something that isn't so boring... and didn't make a whole lot of sense anyhow.
Healer... if you're abilities heal them... you are a healer. I've heard nothing about all classes getting heals so until I do the Cleric, for example, is a healing class.
3. I don't think the number of classes makes any difference. I agree with you though, damage can only be done so many ways. That's no different than any other MMO. I'm not sure why you are singling EQN out on this. It's about how the classes and abilities are packaged together, and we don't know that other than the Classes video from Live '14.
4. You may assume that the damage types are just to "justify" the classes but until we see them I action we wont know how different they feel, which is the only important aspect. Keep in mind part of the game itself is to find,and earn, these classes. It gives options to play styles and makes it fun in the process. As to the weapons and power types the result is the same. It allows for a broader usage of items and yes, "elements" will be a huge part of the game. Look at the AI video if you're going to stop dark spirits you'll want a set of gear set up for that type of encounter.
I would watch this, it does a lot better job explaining the damage types and power sources.
You can honestly put any title, or anything for that matter, under negative scrutiny and "find" what you're looking for. If you really don't want to like the game you'll find everything is wrong with it. Not because the title is not good, because you don't want to like it.
EQN only fantasy mmorpg that interesting me.
H1Z1 only zombie mmorpg that interesting me.
And I have.. There hasn't been a game in the last 10 years that I haven't critiqued.. Some more so then others.. And not to toot my own horn, I still haven't played the WoW killer.. Every couple years there is always the "next" king of the mountain game coming out and every time, they fail.. Rift? cough SWTOR? cough FF? cough ArcheAge? cough
BTW. just to be funny.. when it comes to the new "combat" twitch thing.. The US MILITARY uses mostly tab targeting.. Those cruise missiles don't use a reticle.. and neither do the A1 Abrams.. /shrug.. Shoot.. Torpedoes have used tab targeting guidance systems for over half a century..
Rift - One of the best end games I have seen. Very unique class system. Has a steady support of core players. Lots of new content from launch forward.
SWToR - Keeping strong with about 400'000 - 500'000k subs and new content every year and a good portion of it free.
FF - sales did well and the servers that are running have a close community doing the content. Free content updates and has a fan base thats supporting the game well (worse launch since WoW)
AA - Game has not been out of the gate a few weeks yet and its a fail? I think the worst thing to happen to MMOs is the hoppers that never stick around long enough to see the game come out of the launch pains. I think we are to quick to judge the monster games we call MMOs.
You have a big axe to grind with SoE and EQN that no amount of information or discussion is going to penetrate. That's fine, it doesn't matter to me what your interests are.
My interests are making sure my time is well spent. Arguing point by point when said points are misconstrued or my "experience" made the subject is not worth my time, so I'm not going to do it. I try to engage in real debate.
For example, the first subject was about zerging, not knowing what dungeons are. I started playing MMOs with EQ 11 years ago. I'm well aware of what dungeon types are out there. Like the comment about healing. Bandages? Really?
Yea i'm not going to bother arguing with someone like that. His head is riddled with misinformation about EQN, and he appears very hostile for the very little he knows about the game.
Odd somebody gets soo wound up over something in which they don't understand.
Games are changing and evolving soo much these days... i guess some people just can't keep up:)
Problem is you have your definitions and everyone else has theirs. You are no more correct then anyone else.
If you don't consider EQN's "classes" to be classes based on your opinion and XYZ requirements, then they aren't classes. Those that have different views might see them just as described by SOE.
Same goes for anything else. Maybe a "healer" is the heal bot spammer stare at HP bars doesn't exist in EQN, doesn't mean a class couldn't fill that role through other means.
Other games have done this already. WAR (OP's game), DAoC, Vanguard, GW1.
Despite the joy to say that every game is a WoW clone or in turn an EQ clone, many games have done things quite differently.
GW2 is a terrible PVE game to me. There are no roles really, simply classes that may do certain things a little better/worse in certain situations that might resemble roles.
Again, if you expect X = Y, you won't find it. Simply doesn't make any sense for EQN to have what a game like EQ has because they aren't the same game, the devs have tried to make this clear. They've said basically "If you want EQ, play EQ." No confusion or disingenuous lies or anything to confuse people.
Trying to shoehorn in something you like/want into something not designed for it doesn't make sense to me. Sucks for you, but doesn't detract from what many of us are looking forward to.
Sure, it can be more advanced, but that doesn't automatically mean it's better. Innovation has a way of introducing a lot of trade-offs. A lot of new and unforeseen issues that come from new and unproven systems. Anet had to deal with that, so will SOE.
In the end Anet made a good game. One I really enjoyed. But I didn't think it was any major step forward for the genre. It wasn't due to lack of new systems, but new systems that brought their own new problems.
I'm telling you hands down, with my feet in the air too, that it will be better. You don't seem to have thoroughly understood how storybricks functions. The information is out there, infront of you, to understand. Personally i've studied A.I myself, and have an understanding of it which also enables me to understand what storybricks is about. This isn't some scheme or hype of progression in the ability of A.I, it's the real thing.
The purpose of an Alpha and beta, is to iron out the kinks, if you think an MMO the size of EQN is going to roll out perfect or completely flawed and failed, then you don't really get it.
This game is truly striving to become something - what you and a majority of MMOers these days don't get, is that after World of Warcraft, not much happened. Now with the increasing power of computer hardware we are enabled to design games which have engines and features previously impossible to implement - therefore the mold can be broken. it's all about time and money.
Or maybe i'm just all wrong , and Tank and spank, DPS, healbot stand-in-the-back-AFK is what people are still demanding these days ? Maybe some of these people are stuck in a time and place whilst some others have continued to live in "reality" and in current time and space?
That little highlight, my friend is the key to your whole statement. SOE is not the company it once was back in the days of EQ! They have not produced a solid, smooth performing game in a long time. Even now EQ2 is riddled with memory leak lag issues for most gamers. I played Landmark a few times and even recently the system just performs like crap. SOE has a reputation of not being able to optimize their games for a broad performance on different rigs.
That said I do like the hyped concepts, but until it shows a more tangible reality I remain a skeptic.
Well I'm not demanding for simplistic pew pew bunny hoping either. What I've seen for now when it comes to combat didn't impress me.
Glad you are so hyped but hate to tel you that you are more than likely going to be very disappointed. It is SOE after all and they screw everything up they touch. Smedley is long overdue to be let go. The combat is the worst I've ever seen, the art style is right out of "Frozen", and they have said they are targeting a completely new audience than they've already got.
This all adds up to a disaster to long time EQ fans. Stay hyped though and I hope you aren't cursing SOE and Smedly in the end.
Please add "in my opinion" or something... Cause while you might not like the combat (far from done btw), and the graphics, others (like me) likes it...
Well, the graphics isn't my preferred style, but I realize that you need a style like that to last for a long time... You wouldn't see Wow with 7+ Million players 10 years after release if it didn't have those graphics...
The combat is what I have been wanting for ages now... That's if EQN will use the same as Landmark, which I really hope. Tab targetting is old and boring IMO, and I hope I never see combat like GW2 has again...
In fact, I know there is a ton of people who have wanted twitch combat in an AAA MMO for ages now too, so they made a good decision (if it's used) by going with that...
MMO designs can't please everyone, so please stop demanding that they do... or rather, that they all please you...
The long term EQ fans are not the target audience for EQ Next that is plainly obvious, they are welcome of course but EQ Next is trying to be something new and different, and I think that is a good thing. It is a small but very vocal group that wants something old style with updated graphics, and that is not going to happen. I think the character art style is good it will last longer than realistic art, and more models are incoming (remember the biggest complain against EQ2 today is the horrible outdated character models).
Twitch combat; well see what happens there, it is still very unfinished but it has possibilities. The current combat system is not very fun in PvP at the moment (Landmark) due to overpowered and unbalanced gear and they have to fix that.
The interesting thing is that so many complains about the lack of new thinking, the lack of new ideas, can't someone push the boundaries of MMOs and when a company tries to do it the comments are, Oh NO we want the old ideas and the old designs back.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch