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Have they updated the character looks?
fistorm
Member UncommonPosts: 868
As an old EQOA player, I used to play a monk that looked pretty cool. Blue Hair combed back, with beard, and eyepatch. Wore cool monk robes, sea farers was pretty cool.
Next I played EQ2, Had a bard that looked pretty cool as well. White hair sleeked back, with a mediterranean look to him.
Next I'll be playing EQ Next. I dint care too much for the simple low detailed look of the characters. but then I saw a video on thier main website. 
Life of consequences - 2:10 minute.
It looks like the character has a pretty detailed outfit on and the looks are more serious then the previous versions you see in landmark.
I also noticed on their main website the more detailed look of the two characters on the main website background.
https://www.everquestnext.com/home Which showes a higher detailed elf woman and a detailed man with a pick that looks really cool and the way I could see the final product of characters in this game looking like.
What do you think? Are they starting to change characters looks to being more cool and higher detailed and even sexy looking?
Comments
Not from anything that they have shown of actual game footage versus website Art (which they probably put up to combat the negative input on the kiddy models).
The SOE 2014 footage shows dark elves, and they are better at first glance, but still have most of the cartoony look in place. The bodies are bowed and misshapen for some reason. My character in Landmark was a human woman, but she was proportioned, and moved, like some kind of a primate or hominid.
The human Male model is especially atrocious, being some kind of an offshoot of human stock that could be called Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis Cartoonis. The least human looking races have not been shown since the lion king made his debut in 2013, so there is nothing on that front either.
The character is the anchor point of sympathy/enthusiasm for the Game. If the characters are stupid looking I can't enjoy the MMORPG because I don't care what happens to my Hominid Disney Princess, and I don't care what gear I have. A workaround is full armor that completely hides the toon, but then there is still a giant-eyed plastic thing under the helm that I'm reminded of when I see other players.
It's a terrible decision that they made, and I feel like Rosie Rappaport has, in a large way, ruined the EQ IP.
Still Disney characters sadly.
I would hope they offer an alternate model like they do with EQ2 and have them more like the leaked screenshot prior to moving to Disney characters.
I think the developers have dropped the ball on the character design. I think (IMO) most of the people that will jump over this first are long time EQ fans and MMOers and we all are well over our 30's by now (at least I am). The last thing I would think for a 30+ man or woman is to want to look at a cartoon avatar.
All the ideas for EQN sound great, but the visuals of the game are just not what any of us are expecting.
There needs to be a serious overhaul before I can take EQN serious. If not they might be able to save face a little by renaming the game to Cartoon Avatar Online and save the Everquest name some problems.
S.C.I.F.I
<Sights, Clouded, In, False, Illusions>
IMO the graphics "normalize" to the eye after a while anyways. I believe those that would enjoy the game yet won't because of the graphics will be small in number (the real number, not stated months/years before release). Especially over a period of time if the game is otherwise enjoyable.
While i understand the criticism, i don't get them at all. EQ1 and EQ2 character models are absolutely atrocious. I'm sorry but they are. While i would have preferred a style more similar to ArcheAge, the new models are far better looking than anything SoE has ever done.
I also assumed by now that EQ vets would understand that EQNext is not targeted at them. It's a harsh reality to come to grips with and it's also a huge gamble on SoE's part, but it's the direction i feel they're going.
I don't agree with the direction personally but it is what it is.
When people say cartoonish toward EQN it is because the characters look like they have been ripped right out of a Disney movie. It isnt artistic like WoW or mixed like RIFT..etc. The character models also ( IMO ) dont even match the world they are in.. Even in Landmark it feels out of place to me. It almost is like at some point in time the models were reduced in size and nothing else was... I feel the look of the world ( outside of the poor LOD and GIANT trees in LM ) looks and feels pretty good.
And for the time EQ looked amazing. EQ2 on the other hand I always felt had to much of a lifeless plastic barbie look. Mannequins pretty much.
Not for me. If I can't get past the dopey looking characters there is no reason to play. I can see not needing something nice to look at if you are playing a strategy game or something on your phone when you are bored, but an MMO where you may be involved in a guild, doing things that take a lot of time, and are based on the idea of progressing an avatar through an environment.
If you have a chess game does it have pieces that resemble a horsehead, a tower, a miter, and pawn gamepieces? Why not save money and just use coins to represent the pieces, I mean the gameplay is the same, and people in prison will attest that the same experience is there.
That's the preference piece, but what about Immersion? Are you making the argument that you don't need immersion? If that is the case could you define for me what Immersion is as you see it?
I think I see what you mean, and good looking games with nothing in the way of gameplay or depth are a waste of time IMO. But for me the opposite is true as well. If the game doesn't have avatars that I can enjoy, then I can't play the game. I find that none of the elements that are attached to playing the character in the game seem to matter much to me if every time I log in I have to hold my nose while I drive my guy around the world.
So on the immersion explanation, can you give me an example of something you did in a game where the gameplay mechanics just had you? A good example of how you felt immersion because of what the mechanics of the game supplied?
Could you link to what you find stupid/dopey? I'm not understanding if you mean the art style itself (stylized/cartoony) or the models/animations like how humans walk around or swing a weapon. While everything could use more polish and will since EQN is a long ways off, I find most of the animation to be pretty decent. If you are focusing on the large hands/eyes or something, then I guess I get it as that is simply a subjective aspect. They are going for the whole "heroic" look with some what out of proportion parts working with gear/animations and such.
PnP and MUDs immersed me without any visuals at all, along with books for that matter. Graphics are nice and all, but are just a layer or pretty sparkles on top of either a good or bad system.
I think it's important to have an appealing stylized graphics setting as much as features that engaging and meaningful. Do you need to spend 90% of your time doing this? Of course not. But the choice SOE made with this one seems odd. We cannot tell if this will be bad or good yet as the only thing we have seen are some fly overs and premade fight scenes. I, personally, would just like to have seen something a little more grounded in reality from a graphics design.
The Disney look just feel weird to me.
As mentioned it feels off from your normal cartooned look, WoW or Wildstar. It's just, I don't know, very very different then what I expected for the next Ever Quest.
S.C.I.F.I
<Sights, Clouded, In, False, Illusions>
Gameplay is king as long the visuals be functional - like the old isometric look.
As soon as the visuals have a "Style" it will drive off Players that "hate" that style.
I hate the WoW/Wildstar-Style and its questionable if i will get comfortable with the disneyesque EQN Avatars.
The Avatar is my Alter Ego and i can not play a game that makes me hate myself - if the world has a few places hateworthy i can move around that but not around a hateworthy Avatar.
I stay curious where SOE will end up...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
You know, why cant we have both sides of the coin in the game?
Keep the cartoon styles, as well as add fine detailed charcters as well. It would be no differant then adding a beard or no beard to characters. I think the more options and choices people have for thier characters look is a good thing.
I remember playing wow for quite a while and I would prefer a level of detail of that degree at the very least. I dont think kids who played wow from ages 5+ had a problem with seeing detailed characters in thier game.
So I say, why not have both kinds, and at character creation we can put a more cartoony look or a more serious look into our characters. Seems to me, that if you can add facial expressions, then adding differant styles of looks to a character from cartoon to serious would be easy.
Why would you have to alienate grown ups or children, let them all have their piece of the pie!
The characters will always be stylized to some degree. It is the artstyle they choose and they have explained several times why they did it.
Now refining the characters looks and animations i am sure is on the list (if not done already) especially from that early displays of the game. Landmark i guess got the short stick because it was not about the character but the building of things.
So i guess... Yes and no depending on what you want.
Also hate to burst your carefully crafted bubble...Fis...But i am very much an adult... And... I... LIKE... the artstyle of EQ:N.
This have been a good conversation
First of all, your idea would be great for a Who Framed Roger Rabbit? MMO. For the most part, though, it doesn't work. So you've either got toons running around in a true-to-life environment or true-to-life models running around in a stylized environment. Just doesn't work, sorry.
Also, what you're saying, basically, is that all adults want true-to-life character models while it's only kids who like stylized graphics?
I actually prefer stylized graphics. There's actually one really good reason for that, Animations! Unfortunately, for the most part, any game with true-to-life models has really sucky animations. It's because we have pre-conceived notions about how certain motions should look, so if a character model doesn't walk right, run right, hold a weapon right, then we notice it and it's like a glaring flaw. Stylized graphics allow for more creative liberties when it comes to those animations. Our expectations of a cartoon is that they can move in many unexpected ways, so we're more impartial to flaws in the animations. It's just about our perceptions.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I"m more like you. I don't find aesthetics shallow by any means and they can make or break a game play experience for me.
I can "hold my nose" and put up with bad aesthetics but I find that more often than not I'll drop the game.
Keep in mind that I'm not talking "graphics" but aesthetics.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes we know their explanation, "They age better." Does anyone really believe that? I think we all know the real reason SOE chose this look, and it's the same reason they chose arcade style combat.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Ooooo, I love forum cliffhangers!!! Keeps everyone in suspense. Can't wait for the sequel to your post.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Not to assume this is the only reason but there is a huge mechanical reason for the artstyle and it ties to immersion.
Expressiveness.
We seen this as soon as they showed Jelaina (sp) and her facial expressions. The accentuated eyes and mouth are to better convey different expressions and emotions. This ties into SoEMote where player's facial expressions are conveyed from a web cam to their avatar's face. This tech will also be used by SoE with NPC voiceovers so you see what they are saying (like a lot of EQ2).
Someone from SoE said that if a village doesn't have enough food they will look hungry. Expression on how NPCs "feel" seems to be a big part of the game due to the AI. This may be a sneer from someone who doesn't like you or a big grin from an NPC who does. The artstyle and accentuated facial features show this a lot better.
Having NPCs, and even players, show emotion depending on how they feel towards me is definitely immersion, more than what I can experience in the market right now. I understand that people will still not like the style but IMO it's worth the tradeoff for a more immersive feel.
They do age better.
There's nothing to believe it's true.
Take something that is aiming to look "realistic" and then give it a few years with advances in technology and it will look dated.
Take something that is stylized and it will require less updating as it will never require looking anything other than stylized for quite some time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They age better because they start at "Suck" and remain that way. They don't ever reach anything appealing so the bar is set low.
So you design your characters to last eons only to turn a ton of people off instantly. I'm sure at no time in the life of this game could you update the graphics, oh wait you could!
Here is bugs bunny:
Other than making him have finer textures or making him more "3d" he will never need to look more "realistic". I would even say that if given greater fidelity he will only look weirder. There is no "more realistic" because he is as he is. He is this way and can be this way in 20 years.
Here is diablo:
It certainly is more realistic than:
Though in truth one can't say that "Adventure" was going for realistic so much as "we need to depict a dragon this is the best way to do it" However, there is much greater fidelity and more realism. Heck, when I saw Diablo II I marvelled at how realistic the metal seemed with the "light reflecting off it".
Now you look at:'
and that is much more realistic than Diablo or Adventure.
Show someone a bugs bunny game and they arent' going to mind the look of bugs bunny because he is what he is. Show someone a duck looking dragon made out of blocks and there will be a different story.
You not liking the style they choose is another matter as that is subjective. There are people who don't think they "start at suck".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Are these the same ton of people that play EQ, EQ2, AC, DAoC, WAR, WoW, Wildstar, every MOBA, TF2, yadda yadda? Because there sure seems to be a few people that either don't mind or actually enjoy the more stylized art. Not to mention all the folks that love Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Anime, cartoons in general...
Looking at the genre as a whole, pretty much seems to be either some sort of stylized "cartoony" look which tends to age better and be up to what EQN's tech, then there are the oh so serious games like AoC, Mortal Online, Darkfall that looked.....and then Eastern games with various degrees of "realism" even though to me it is just stylized with Eastern influences (FF games, GW2, ArcheAge, Wushu, Bless, Black Desert, etc).
If you go by the numbers and longevity, you'll see one thing in common with the art.
I highly doubt when Valve made TF2, Riot made LoL, or Blizzard makes a game they go "Alright lets make a super cartoony game and go after all those 8 year olds that make up our core demographic."
Yes EQN could look more like EQ's SOL models or a bit more gritty, but they've gone with a more flashy look because that is what sells and when compared to the competition, it does not "suck". Models hopefully still being polished, but quality wise, they are pretty nice compared to say WoW's updated models, Wildstar, SMITE, etc.
I thought EQ's graphics were fairly silly when I first started and never got the impression it was a dark, gritty, mature, realistic game through the look or gameplay. EQ2 seemed to try to do this a bit and went with the weird dead eye plastic doll rendered look and I think suffered because of it.
We all like what we like, but I'm betting that EQN isn't going to do poorly because of the art style, plenty of other areas where they can screw up though