Originally posted by Gregor999 You're all paying monthly for Guild Wars 2. Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
They're extremely different games in certain parts. GW2 gave me no feeling of progression while ARR goes the opposite direction, I almost feel like it has a bit too much. In only one year the ilvl went up 60 levels which made a lot of older dungeons easy. GW2 has better questing system. ARR however wins in encounter design by a long shot. It feels like there is actual thought put into it and is not just spammy chaotic crap. It's ultimately what made me pick it up over the other one which costs me nothing to play right now. Another one being new content pumped up like crazy and having all classes available to one char.
I was going to resub for 2.4 but they changed there payment options to where you have to have a credit card now. i don't own a credit card lol. They just don't want my money i have to resub in atleast 1-2 weeks or i lose my house fuark.
Well, actually.. it was the point. But, you seem a bit confused.
The whole "best MMO out now" remark is the personal opinion of individual player(s). No one in this thread is speaking on the state of the entire MMO industry. Nobody is attempting to speak for everyone. They're just sharing their own personal opinions of the game, and how they feel about it. So, for them, personally, ARR is the best MMO on the market.
For others, GW2 is the best on the market. For others, it's Eve... and so on.
Do you understand the difference now, and why it makes both your responses to that remark seem kinda... silly and moot?
As for the rest of your post... Do you have a character I can check on the Lodestone? I'd like to see how much you've played, what you've done, and how informed your comments about the game are. If you have a character, please be sure I can view your achievements and such. Thanks.
You do realize that you are coming down on him for stating the exact same things that you were saying initially?
People in glass houses....
You seem confused as well. Or you're just strawmanning here.
I've never said anything like "the industry's in a sad state if ARR is considered the best MMO out there".
I never claimed ARR was just a "rehash" of 1.0. Even though I didn't like how it was back then, I still knew better than to call it that.
My initial criticisms were of decisions Yoshi-P made for the direction of the game, and that it seemed as though he had taken the 'easy route', by simply sticking to the template others had followed, instead of finding new and interesting ways to implement familiar concepts, such as they did in XI. Back then, that's exactly how I felt. I still maintain that's how it felt to me back then, which is why I didn't play it for a time.
What's changed now is that I see they've added a lot, changed a lot, and the game has become a much more well-rounded title, that stands on its own, and feels more like a world than just a game. It's now more what I was hoping it would be from the start. I also stated back then that I didn't see it doing well as P2P, as it didn't do enough to separate itself from other offerings, but that I hoped I was wrong. I've noted that - to me - they have, in fact proven me wrong. They have succeeded, the game is doing very well, it's evolved into something far more than what it was, or what I thought it would/could ever amount to.
Nothing I've replied to is even similar to what they're arguing, much less the "exact same things".
So, no.. No glass houses here.
Also, I'd appreciate it if you not try putting words in my mouth, just to give yourself something to argue with, okay? Thanks .
Originally posted by mayanking I was going to resub for 2.4 but they changed there payment options to where you have to have a credit card now. i don't own a credit card lol. They just don't want my money i have to resub in atleast 1-2 weeks or i lose my house fuark.
Originally posted by mayanking I was going to resub for 2.4 but they changed there payment options to where you have to have a credit card now. i don't own a credit card lol. They just don't want my money i have to resub in atleast 1-2 weeks or i lose my house fuark.
I like how you like to speak for me, when I say the remark "best MMO out now" I am speaking for anyone that believes that in general, not speaking for the entire industry, didn't realize I had to be so specific with my words for you to understand.
Clearly you didn't realize it, or you'd have done a better, more thorough job explaining yourself in the first place to avoid such a misunderstanding.
I'm not a mind reader, and I don't know you from Adam. I have no basis on which to divine "what you actually mean" when you say something. You said what you said, and I replied to it.
If you want to be better understood, do a better job expressing yourself. "Say what you mean, and mean what you say".
I will try to be more clear since you apparently take everything literally. For your last question, lol. You going to say your opinion is better then mine cause you played it more? Hate to tell you, that's not how opinions work.
Oh, hi Mr. Strawman.
Did I say my opinion was better than yours anywhere in that bit? No. I made no such statement. In fact, I didn't make any statement in that bit. I asked a question. Or, more specifically, I made a request. I asked you to link me to your character so I could see what your experience in the game has been.
Why? Well, if you're going to have a debate with someone on a given topic, it's helpful if both sides have current experience and first-hand knowledge of said topic. I wanted to see how much I could reasonably expect you to know about the game, based on your experience playing it.
Considering your defensive reaction, that's obviously a problem for you. Given your next statement, I can see why.
I beta tested the game, had plenty of time to play it and it didn't get better.
O.... kayyy...
So your view of the game is grounded in beta-testing, which took place over a year ago, before the game was released. You have no hands-on experience or knowledge of how the game has grown, changed or improved since. Yet, you're here - among people who are playing it, and are aware of those things - declaring what the game is, and how badly it sucks.
In the words of Matt Dillahunty: "You're done".
To return to your earlier question about whether I think my opinion is better because I played it more.... In light of your confessed ignorance of ARR... I can now say yes, my opinion on this topic is better than yours. Because an informed opinion based on hands-on experience and knowledge, is always better than an uninformed one, based on ignorance and conjecture.
I am so glad you have turned around and are now actually enjoying this venerable old Japanese mmo. It truly is a timeless classic. I have played only a free 30 days back last year when it first came back and loved it, but have decided, for now, to stick with the 3 mmo's I'm currently playing.
I think it is a testament to everyone crafting this mmo how they able to pull themselves up from almost total failure to a very successful experience now! I salute SquareEnix
Pratt you are to be commended for your honesty. How many folks on any gaming forum would have the "marbles" to make an open statement of how they were completely misinformed or didn't give a game half the chance it needed to "grow" on them?
Here's hoping your journeys always are blessed with warmth and joy!
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Originally posted by Gregor999 You're all paying monthly for Guild Wars 2. Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Having played, and mostly enjoyed, GW2 up to level cap, I can say honestly that GW2 and ARR are two very different beasts.
The only comparison I would draw are public events, but in that case, I could also refer to Rift and Warhammer Online (before they took it down anyway).
I actually like the way GW2 handles the public events a bit more than how they are in ARR.
First, if you're going to respond to someone, you should at least address what they actually say, instead of constructing ridiculous strawmen to attack.
Next, since my character stats seem to be of importance to you - enough that you'd attempt to reference them - here's what they actually are. You'll notice I'm nowhere near max level with 10 classes/jobs.
To point out that you can't have an informed opinion of something you haven't actually experienced yourself is not being "narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
Someone who's played 10 minutes of a game can formulate an informed opinion of those 10 minutes. Anything after that is them assuming what the experience is like. They can say something *looks* fun, or *seems* boring. But that's as far as they can go. They can not say it *is* fun, or *is* boring, not even as a personal opinion, because they have no personal experience to base it on.
For example... I haven't yet done Wanderer's Palace in FFXIV. I've watched a video of it, and it looks like it's pretty fun, what with a giant Tonberry stalking you down corridors and such. I can not, however, opine that it is or isn't fun, because I haven't actually done it yet. For now, my opinion of that content is uninformed, and it would be dishonest for me to try and present it otherwise.
I can however, voice an informed opinion of Temple of Qarn, which I have done, and found to be rather lackluster. I can say what I didn't like about it, and why I didn't like it. I can describe particular mechanics, enemies, the layout, what I found good or bad about them. I can support my statements with actual first-hand knowledge of the content, because I've experienced it myself. That is an informed opinion.
If someone asked you to back up your opinion with specific details about the content, about the dungeons, about story, characters, cut-scenes... anything... You could not give them any kind of an informed answer, without making stuff up or referencing sources they could go and see themselves. Because you haven't actually done any of it and have no idea what you're talking about.
On the other hand, I and - probably to a greater degree - others here could answer those questions, because we have done the content.
Do you understand the difference?
Again, that is not "being narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
So bringing it back to you, you haven't played ARR since Beta, by your own admission. Thus, all you can speak to is how the game was to you, based on what you experienced, over a year ago, in Beta. That's all you can state an informed opinion on. Everything after that is just you making guesses at what you assume the game is like, based on what you've heard or seen.
In that context, yes... my opinion, or that of anyone else who's played the game since then and, especially, is playing now, is far better than that of someone who, like yourself, has not played it since before it launched.
I'll put it to you another way...
If you're interested in something... a movie or a book, say. You want to seek some feedback to see what others think of it before you pick it up yourself. Who will be able to give you a better, more informed answer... the one who's seen the entire movie, or read the entire book? Or the one who's only seen the trailer, or only read the book's synopsis? Whose answer are you going to put more weight in? Please answer honestly.
IMO the best mmos out right now are Final Fantasy XIV and Elder Scrolls Online. They both to me are quite similar that their main strength is that they both have great teams behind them that care more about providing content and a quality gaming experience.
Originally posted by Sector13 When FFXIV:ARR is considered the best MMO out is a sad day for MMOs.
Well that's a rather sweeping remark to make. Kinda difficult to speak for an entire genre on the basis of some people's individual opinions.
Personally, I'd say it's a great day for any MMO player if they can find one they really enjoy, be it ARR or anything else.
Not really the point, but when the "best MMO out now" is nothing more then a rehash of a failed MMO that was rereleased a year later more of a clone of a 10 year old game shows how poor the MMO industry has become. If players are fine with that then that's on them but I expected more from the industry in 10 years then the same game over and over again with slightly better graphics.
Go back to your horrible Vindictus and PSO2.
Yes, the first iteration of the game failed, but you know what? SE had the balls to pull it, listen to its customers, rework it, and release an even better game... Probably the 2nd largest MMORPG out right now. Who else does that??? You usually get stuck with what they give you or they keep taking your money while they works on changes that don't come for a whole year.
And the whole WoWclone thing is getting really old... It's a very easy and poor excuse for people who are too immature to think for themselves and come up for REAL reasons why they don't like a game.
First, if you're going to respond to someone, you should at least address what they actually say, instead of constructing ridiculous strawmen to attack.
Next, since my character stats seem to be of importance to you - enough that you'd attempt to reference them - here's what they actually are. You'll notice I'm nowhere near max level with 10 classes/jobs.
To point out that you can't have an informed opinion of something you haven't actually experienced yourself is not being "narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
Someone who's played 10 minutes of a game can formulate an informed opinion of those 10 minutes. Anything after that is them assuming what the experience is like. They can say something *looks* fun, or *seems* boring. But that's as far as they can go. They can not say it *is* fun, or *is* boring, not even as a personal opinion, because they have no personal experience to base it on.
For example... I haven't yet done Wanderer's Palace in FFXIV. I've watched a video of it, and it looks like it's pretty fun, what with a giant Tonberry stalking you down corridors and such. I can not, however, opine that it is or isn't fun, because I haven't actually done it yet. For now, my opinion of that content is uninformed, and it would be dishonest for me to try and present it otherwise.
I can however, voice an informed opinion of Temple of Qarn, which I have done, and found to be rather lackluster. I can say what I didn't like about it, and why I didn't like it. I can describe particular mechanics, enemies, the layout, what I found good or bad about them. I can support my statements with actual first-hand knowledge of the content, because I've experienced it myself. That is an informed opinion.
If someone asked you to back up your opinion with specific details about the content, about the dungeons, about story, characters, cut-scenes... anything... You could not give them any kind of an informed answer, without making stuff up or referencing sources they could go and see themselves. Because you haven't actually done any of it and have no idea what you're talking about.
On the other hand, I and - probably to a greater degree - others here could answer those questions, because we have done the content.
Do you understand the difference?
Again, that is not "being narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
So bringing it back to you, you haven't played ARR since Beta, by your own admission. Thus, all you can speak to is how the game was to you, based on what you experienced, over a year ago, in Beta. That's all you can state an informed opinion on. Everything after that is just you making guesses at what you assume the game is like, based on what you've heard or seen.
In that context, yes... my opinion, or that of anyone else who's played the game since then and, especially, is playing now, is far better than that of someone who, like yourself, has not played it since before it launched.
I'll put it to you another way...
If you're interested in something... a movie or a book, say. You want to seek some feedback to see what others think of it before you pick it up yourself. Who will be able to give you a better, more informed answer... the one who's seen the entire movie, or read the entire book? Or the one who's only seen the trailer, or only read the book's synopsis? Whose answer are you going to put more weight in? Please answer honestly.
Bravo well thought out and basically sinks the post you answered.
Oh BTW do do The Wanderer's Palace. First time I did it as a white mage I was healing like a crazy women cos they pulled like 3 sets of mobs and was quite busy and had little chance to look about. Playing hide and seek from the stalker .
Bravo well thought out and basically sinks the post you answered.
Thanks! I'd like to think I was making some kind of revelatory, profound point in that post. It would certainly be good for my ego . However, I kinda feel like what I explained (informed > uninformed opinions) is, or should be obvious to everyone. Perhaps it isn't, though. Who knows? lol
Oh BTW do do The Wanderer's Palace. First time I did it as a white mage I was healing like a crazy women cos they pulled like 3 sets of mobs and was quite busy and had little chance to look about. Playing hide and seek from the stalker .
Oh, I intend to. I'm kinda wanting to get leveled up to 50 on MNK, and also want to do mining-goldsmithing-leves-atmasfordragoonzodiac-sightseeinglog-Turntania5(shudder)-hunts-StoryMissions-Hildibrand!... and.. various other stuff. So, it's a bit of a juggling act .
Just one thing though... Know that at lvl 20, you are barely scratching the surface. Its kinda just the tutorial. The higher you go or the more you do, the game gets better and better. ( of coarse thats imho )
Have fun!
There is a small out-of-game cash shop in ARR (Mog station). It will soon offer the Odin mount and Fantasia (change your character race) and it already offers extra retainers for a fee. Thankfully though, its out of the game so it's not like SWTOR where its shoved in your face every 2 seconds.
It's refreshing to see so many people actually enjoying an MMO and talking about it. Hater's gonna hate, and that's good. I like haters, it means the game is doing something right. FF ARR is getting a lot of things right in a debacle MMO industry and the game is loaded with content - every time I login I get overwhelmed with stuff to do, there so many dailies, dungeons, leveling, crafting, gathering, the challenge log, chocobo leveling, hunts, end game raids etc. There's ALOT going on in this game and if PvE is your thing then ARR is the best in the market IMO. PvP on the hand is light, but it too is also fun - Frontlines is a blast even though que times are long, and I like the fact that you can use PvE gear in frontlines, so your not stuck with PvP/PvE gear dilemma.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
This game is the best "log-in and do your dailies/weeklies" -MMORPG out there.
If you are into static raiding the game offers a lot as well.
However the game completely lacks endgame progression other than gear. The game is all about gear gear gear which you mostly get for tokens tokens tokens which means you are running the same content over and over again to get your tokens.
Buying subscription every 2 big patches and running the new content and story through is a good idea. However I personally can't enjoy the game for a ongoing subscription. Mainly because I cannot static raid.
Comments
They're extremely different games in certain parts. GW2 gave me no feeling of progression while ARR goes the opposite direction, I almost feel like it has a bit too much. In only one year the ilvl went up 60 levels which made a lot of older dungeons easy. GW2 has better questing system. ARR however wins in encounter design by a long shot. It feels like there is actual thought put into it and is not just spammy chaotic crap. It's ultimately what made me pick it up over the other one which costs me nothing to play right now. Another one being new content pumped up like crazy and having all classes available to one char.
I self identify as a monkey.
You seem confused as well. Or you're just strawmanning here.
I've never said anything like "the industry's in a sad state if ARR is considered the best MMO out there".
I never claimed ARR was just a "rehash" of 1.0. Even though I didn't like how it was back then, I still knew better than to call it that.
My initial criticisms were of decisions Yoshi-P made for the direction of the game, and that it seemed as though he had taken the 'easy route', by simply sticking to the template others had followed, instead of finding new and interesting ways to implement familiar concepts, such as they did in XI. Back then, that's exactly how I felt. I still maintain that's how it felt to me back then, which is why I didn't play it for a time.
What's changed now is that I see they've added a lot, changed a lot, and the game has become a much more well-rounded title, that stands on its own, and feels more like a world than just a game. It's now more what I was hoping it would be from the start. I also stated back then that I didn't see it doing well as P2P, as it didn't do enough to separate itself from other offerings, but that I hoped I was wrong. I've noted that - to me - they have, in fact proven me wrong. They have succeeded, the game is doing very well, it's evolved into something far more than what it was, or what I thought it would/could ever amount to.
Nothing I've replied to is even similar to what they're arguing, much less the "exact same things".
So, no.. No glass houses here.
Also, I'd appreciate it if you not try putting words in my mouth, just to give yourself something to argue with, okay? Thanks
.
Not a problem, as long as you live in an area that Amazon delivers to.
My friends told me if i purchase that then i can not get the extra retainers which i've always paid for with crystia.
Hi Pratt2112,
I am so glad you have turned around and are now actually enjoying this venerable old Japanese mmo. It truly is a timeless classic. I have played only a free 30 days back last year when it first came back and loved it, but have decided, for now, to stick with the 3 mmo's I'm currently playing.
I think it is a testament to everyone crafting this mmo how they able to pull themselves up from almost total failure to a very successful experience now! I salute SquareEnix
Pratt you are to be commended for your honesty. How many folks on any gaming forum would have the "marbles" to make an open statement of how they were completely misinformed or didn't give a game half the chance it needed to "grow" on them?
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Having played, and mostly enjoyed, GW2 up to level cap, I can say honestly that GW2 and ARR are two very different beasts.
The only comparison I would draw are public events, but in that case, I could also refer to Rift and Warhammer Online (before they took it down anyway).
I actually like the way GW2 handles the public events a bit more than how they are in ARR.
Well now you're just flailing about wildly.
First, if you're going to respond to someone, you should at least address what they actually say, instead of constructing ridiculous strawmen to attack.
Next, since my character stats seem to be of importance to you - enough that you'd attempt to reference them - here's what they actually are. You'll notice I'm nowhere near max level with 10 classes/jobs.
To point out that you can't have an informed opinion of something you haven't actually experienced yourself is not being "narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
Someone who's played 10 minutes of a game can formulate an informed opinion of those 10 minutes. Anything after that is them assuming what the experience is like. They can say something *looks* fun, or *seems* boring. But that's as far as they can go. They can not say it *is* fun, or *is* boring, not even as a personal opinion, because they have no personal experience to base it on.
For example... I haven't yet done Wanderer's Palace in FFXIV. I've watched a video of it, and it looks like it's pretty fun, what with a giant Tonberry stalking you down corridors and such. I can not, however, opine that it is or isn't fun, because I haven't actually done it yet. For now, my opinion of that content is uninformed, and it would be dishonest for me to try and present it otherwise.
I can however, voice an informed opinion of Temple of Qarn, which I have done, and found to be rather lackluster. I can say what I didn't like about it, and why I didn't like it. I can describe particular mechanics, enemies, the layout, what I found good or bad about them. I can support my statements with actual first-hand knowledge of the content, because I've experienced it myself. That is an informed opinion.
If someone asked you to back up your opinion with specific details about the content, about the dungeons, about story, characters, cut-scenes... anything... You could not give them any kind of an informed answer, without making stuff up or referencing sources they could go and see themselves. Because you haven't actually done any of it and have no idea what you're talking about.
On the other hand, I and - probably to a greater degree - others here could answer those questions, because we have done the content.
Do you understand the difference?
Again, that is not "being narrow-minded". It's stating the obvious.
So bringing it back to you, you haven't played ARR since Beta, by your own admission. Thus, all you can speak to is how the game was to you, based on what you experienced, over a year ago, in Beta. That's all you can state an informed opinion on. Everything after that is just you making guesses at what you assume the game is like, based on what you've heard or seen.
In that context, yes... my opinion, or that of anyone else who's played the game since then and, especially, is playing now, is far better than that of someone who, like yourself, has not played it since before it launched.
I'll put it to you another way...
If you're interested in something... a movie or a book, say. You want to seek some feedback to see what others think of it before you pick it up yourself. Who will be able to give you a better, more informed answer... the one who's seen the entire movie, or read the entire book? Or the one who's only seen the trailer, or only read the book's synopsis? Whose answer are you going to put more weight in? Please answer honestly.
IMO the best mmos out right now are Final Fantasy XIV and Elder Scrolls Online. They both to me are quite similar that their main strength is that they both have great teams behind them that care more about providing content and a quality gaming experience.
lol
Indeed.
Go back to your horrible Vindictus and PSO2.
Yes, the first iteration of the game failed, but you know what? SE had the balls to pull it, listen to its customers, rework it, and release an even better game... Probably the 2nd largest MMORPG out right now. Who else does that??? You usually get stuck with what they give you or they keep taking your money while they works on changes that don't come for a whole year.
And the whole WoWclone thing is getting really old... It's a very easy and poor excuse for people who are too immature to think for themselves and come up for REAL reasons why they don't like a game.
Bravo well thought out and basically sinks the post you answered.
Oh BTW do do The Wanderer's Palace. First time I did it as a white mage I was healing like a crazy women cos they pulled like 3 sets of mobs and was quite busy and had little chance to look about. Playing hide and seek from the stalker .
There is a small out-of-game cash shop in ARR (Mog station). It will soon offer the Odin mount and Fantasia (change your character race) and it already offers extra retainers for a fee. Thankfully though, its out of the game so it's not like SWTOR where its shoved in your face every 2 seconds.
It's refreshing to see so many people actually enjoying an MMO and talking about it. Hater's gonna hate, and that's good. I like haters, it means the game is doing something right. FF ARR is getting a lot of things right in a debacle MMO industry and the game is loaded with content - every time I login I get overwhelmed with stuff to do, there so many dailies, dungeons, leveling, crafting, gathering, the challenge log, chocobo leveling, hunts, end game raids etc. There's ALOT going on in this game and if PvE is your thing then ARR is the best in the market IMO. PvP on the hand is light, but it too is also fun - Frontlines is a blast even though que times are long, and I like the fact that you can use PvE gear in frontlines, so your not stuck with PvP/PvE gear dilemma.
I enjoy undercutting people in the market place - it's the only PvP a crafter gets.
This game is the best "log-in and do your dailies/weeklies" -MMORPG out there.
If you are into static raiding the game offers a lot as well.
However the game completely lacks endgame progression other than gear. The game is all about gear gear gear which you mostly get for tokens tokens tokens which means you are running the same content over and over again to get your tokens.
Buying subscription every 2 big patches and running the new content and story through is a good idea. However I personally can't enjoy the game for a ongoing subscription. Mainly because I cannot static raid.