Guildwars 2 - honestly... apart from buying the game, me, my wife and my 8 mates playing this game have not spent a dime. And you know what??? We are still competitive, still enjoy the game to the fullest and still do not bitch and moan about p2w - because it simply is not.. so when I read threads like this having a moan because ANet is trying to get money (omg what a revelation, how dare they right?) I just shake my head and leave you with the message "GET OVER IT, STOP BITCHING AND ENJOY THIS AWESOME GAME FREE OR PAY, EITHER WORKS YOU MOANING COW."
From people who never played GW2 and dont know WTF is it about to all regular trolls. It just shows quality of posters here.
The pinnacle is idiot who, as a proof of how successful P2P is, mentions SWTOR and WS, 2 games that failed SO hard that they had to (will have to) change their payment model and lay off most of their staff, while ANet hired (and is hiring more). You can add TESO to the layoff list, you can add Rift to the layoff/paymnet model change, you can add AoC, WHO, SW....All shining examples of success of P2P
If SWTOR and WS are success then GW 1/2 are EAs/Carbines wet dream.
But neither SWTOR or WS are success (WS might not even be around this time next year). It just a question which one failed harder guess its a matter of perspective, pretty much when looking at relative numbers WS broke many of SWTORS records, but in absolute numbers SWTOR still holds no.1 in most failure categories (it is Star Wars after all, biggest IP in the world, it will be no.1...just not at the right side of the board here lol )
TESOs numbers are SO good Zenimax didnt share any rofl. But they did have 5 million in beta They made sure to mention THAT.
Next in the line of pearls is that "P2P provides some kind of stability" (or sumtin). Well, SWTOR, TESO, WS boasted that they will provide monthly updates and that that warrants a sub, that is the value. Just look how THAT value turned out. Subs are a scam, they milk 230-260 $ a year just to have ACCESS to the game, along teh cash shop, while not providing ANYTHING AT ALL more than F2P/B2P games. Its what is called SUCKER TAX where i come from.
But yeah, harp on, buisiness as usual here, bunch of uber nonsense rofl, if i went through all of it it would take way more time than i wanto spend on these boards.
From people who never played GW2 and dont know WTF is it about to all regular trolls. It just shows quality of posters here.
The pinnacle is idiot who, as a proof of how successful P2P is, mentions SWTOR and WS, 2 games that failed SO hard that they had to (will have to) change their payment model and lay off most of their staff, while ANet hired (and is hiring more). You can add TESO to the layoff list, you can add Rift to the layoff/paymnet model change, you can add AoC, WHO, SW....All shining examples of success of P2P
If SWTOR and WS are success then GW 1/2 are EAs/Carbines wet dream.
But neither SWTOR or WS are success (WS might not even be around this time next year). It just a question which one failed harder guess its a matter of perspective, pretty much when looking at relative numbers WS broke many of SWTORS records, but in absolute numbers SWTOR still holds no.1 in most failure categories (it is Star Wars after all, biggest IP in the world, it will be no.1...just not at the right side of the board here lol )
TESOs numbers are SO good Zenimax didnt share any rofl. But they did have 5 million in beta They made sure to mention THAT.
Next in the line of pearls is that "P2P provides some kind of stability" (or sumtin). Well, SWTOR, TESO, WS boasted that they will provide monthly updates and that that warrants a sub, that is the value. Just look how THAT value turned out. Subs are a scam, they milk 230-260 $ a year just to have ACCESS to the game, along teh cash shop, while not providing ANYTHING AT ALL more than F2P/B2P games. Its what is called SUCKER TAX where i come from.
But yeah, harp on, buisiness as usual here, bunch of uber nonsense rofl, if i went through all of it it would take way more time than i wanto spend on these boards.
Failed or not, those games still getting content and updates. And expansions.
From people who never played GW2 and dont know WTF is it about to all regular trolls. It just shows quality of posters here.
The pinnacle is idiot who, as a proof of how successful P2P is, mentions SWTOR and WS, 2 games that failed SO hard that they had to (will have to) change their payment model and lay off most of their staff, while ANet hired (and is hiring more). You can add TESO to the layoff list, you can add Rift to the layoff/paymnet model change, you can add AoC, WHO, SW....All shining examples of success of P2P
If SWTOR and WS are success then GW 1/2 are EAs/Carbines wet dream.
But neither SWTOR or WS are success (WS might not even be around this time next year). It just a question which one failed harder guess its a matter of perspective, pretty much when looking at relative numbers WS broke many of SWTORS records, but in absolute numbers SWTOR still holds no.1 in most failure categories (it is Star Wars after all, biggest IP in the world, it will be no.1...just not at the right side of the board here lol )
TESOs numbers are SO good Zenimax didnt share any rofl. But they did have 5 million in beta They made sure to mention THAT.
Next in the line of pearls is that "P2P provides some kind of stability" (or sumtin). Well, SWTOR, TESO, WS boasted that they will provide monthly updates and that that warrants a sub, that is the value. Just look how THAT value turned out. Subs are a scam, they milk 230-260 $ a year just to have ACCESS to the game, along teh cash shop, while not providing ANYTHING AT ALL more than F2P/B2P games. Its what is called SUCKER TAX where i come from.
But yeah, harp on, buisiness as usual here, bunch of uber nonsense rofl, if i went through all of it it would take way more time than i wanto spend on these boards.
Failed or not, those games still getting content and updates. And expansions.
Vanguard also got content updates...even "expansion" rofl. So Vanguard is great tale of P2P success also. Theres not enough rolfs in the world.
Anyway, as much as hilarious these forums are theyre not worth the time, sitcoms are better.
This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.
I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".
Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.
F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow.
Maybe now, after the blinders are lifted, we can get the genre to move back to the more economical and fair minded subscription model.
Oh yeah, renting a game for $200 a year plus DLC xpac for $50/$90 sounds really fair.
I haven't spent a dime on GW2 since I bought the box. My son has spent $30. Tell me again how renting for 5 times the box price PER YEAR is fair again? Sub for 5 years and spend $1000 on the game. That makes sense. I'm trying really hard to think of a game worth $1000 and I'm coming up with nothing.
But hey, keep on preaching the hidden grind treadmill of renting your games as if it's superior.
I'm tired of having to play around the business models. I just want to play the game. Whether or not you spent money in GW2, doesn't change how you still have to play around that fact. The game is different one way vs another. At least in Sub(only) games, if you spend money, it's because you cheated. That's worth the money to me. Once my play style becomes impacted by monetization, my experience is diminished.
How is your play style impacted by monetization exactly in Gw2. Gw2 has no paywall on any of its content. You can even purchase gem store skins for gold from the auction house. Also its that, skins. ANet has never sold an item with stats in the gemstore. I doubt they ever will. The base game offers more than enough skins to keep you happy with variety of art styles. I literally spent 1 hour in the wardrobe last night to reskin and recolor. And im sure i could've wasted more time on it if i didn't have to go out.
Collections are not paywalled as well. Content is not paywalled. And there are people complaining about monetization
I dont event ... what?
All I see in this thread is bunch of grumpy people that no longer play the game ranting their soul because they feel cheated in some way. The change is reverted, I don't know why this thread keeps getting posts. Stop blowing things out of proportion because you are frustrated with a product. The world is not coming to an end. Gw2 isn't either.
I'm not even getting into this one again. If you don't see it, that's great, I wasn't so fortunate.
Originally posted by Ludwik They've been doing this shady shit since launch, where you been?
Wardrobe monitized PvP skins which were free. Account bound dyes removed unident dyes to sell dye packs. The low level experience rework was just a way to remove key farming. Sold continue coins for SAB then permanently removed it when the money went dry. Destroyed Lions Arch to sell airship portals only to rebuild it once that money went dry.
Every single patch for 1.5 years has been a money grab disguised as a feature.
Exactly this.... I have been saying this for the past year and everybody always defends Anet. But now everybody is seeing the updates for what they are.......... good for them.
Thanks Anet, everytime I'm considering spending money in your cash shop you guys do something like this to remind me now too......THANKS.
Originally posted by Ludwik They've been doing this shady shit since launch, where you been?
Wardrobe monitized PvP skins which were free. Account bound dyes removed unident dyes to sell dye packs. The low level experience rework was just a way to remove key farming. Sold continue coins for SAB then permanently removed it when the money went dry. Destroyed Lions Arch to sell airship portals only to rebuild it once that money went dry.
Every single patch for 1.5 years has been a money grab disguised as a feature.
Exactly this.... I have been saying this for the past year and everybody always defends Anet. But now everybody is seeing the updates for what they are.......... good for them.
Thanks Anet, everytime I'm considering spending money in your cash shop you guys do something like this to remind me now too......THANKS.
I remember criticizing ANET right after the destruction of Lion's Arch in order to promote sales of the Air Ship passes. Did I catch a load of hell for that. LOL.
Originally posted by Ludwik They've been doing this shady shit since launch, where you been?
Wardrobe monitized PvP skins which were free. Account bound dyes removed unident dyes to sell dye packs. The low level experience rework was just a way to remove key farming. Sold continue coins for SAB then permanently removed it when the money went dry. Destroyed Lions Arch to sell airship portals only to rebuild it once that money went dry.
Every single patch for 1.5 years has been a money grab disguised as a feature.
Exactly this.... I have been saying this for the past year and everybody always defends Anet. But now everybody is seeing the updates for what they are.......... good for them.
Thanks Anet, everytime I'm considering spending money in your cash shop you guys do something like this to remind me now too......THANKS.
I remember criticizing ANET right after the destruction of Lion's Arch in order to promote sales of the Air Ship passes. Did I catch a load of hell for that. LOL.
And today LA services are available again.
And I still have air ship passes I've never used that dropped as loot.
Generally the most vocal against some features in these forums are people that don't play and imagine crazy consequences that anyone actually playing know are way exaggerated.
But I guess that is a dogma:
$15/month is super duper and needed to pay for updated content and not a monthly cash grab.
Stuff that is fluff or small convenience and completely skippable is a cash grab.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
At least when I'm playing a P2P game I know I don't have to deal with sleazy dev tactics to disguise money grab ploy as a feature, and the constant power struggle between cash shop vs content focus.
Can you give specific examples of what you consider to be sleazy tactics since your post compared FFXIV to GW2? You do realize that FFXIV is now going to have a cash shop on top of being P2P. This so called power struggle between cash shop and content will likely affect FFXIV. It is interesting how something that the majority of white knights proclaimed would never happen actually did. Their best response was always a comparison of A product to B product. Since FFXI has never gone F2P or introduced a cash shop then FFXIV will follow suite. I wonder where the logic is in that. What surprises me less is that some of these same white knights that said that it would never happen or that they would quit the game made a complete 180 degree turn in their opinion and are now stating "well it is just like any other business, more money for SE" just like every other (past discussions) MMO that modified or changed their P2P business model.
I wonder how people will react the day FFXIV changes their business model further (either by going B2P or F2P).
At least when I'm playing a P2P game I know I don't have to deal with sleazy dev tactics to disguise money grab ploy as a feature, and the constant power struggle between cash shop vs content focus.
Can you give specific examples of what you consider to be sleazy tactics since your post compared FFXIV to GW2? You do realize that FFXIV is now going to have a cash shop on top of being P2P. This so called power struggle between cash shop and content will likely affect FFXIV. It is interesting how something that the majority of white knights proclaimed would never happen actually did. Their best response was always a comparison of A product to B product. Since FFXI has never gone F2P or introduced a cash shop then FFXIV will follow suite. I wonder where the logic is in that. What surprises me less is that some of these same white knights that said that it would never happen or that they would quit the game made a complete 180 degree turn in their opinion and are now stating "well it is just like any other business, more money for SE" just like every other (past discussions) MMO that modified or changed their P2P business model.
I wonder how people will react the day FFXIV changes their business model further (either by going B2P or F2P).
Why would FFXIV go free to play or buy to play? They are clearly doing well enough to move servers to Europe. They aren't merging servers or implementing megaservers. They obviously have a strong population.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Here we go again, people calling things they don't like a 'grind' if your going to add housing ofc you want it to last a long time, the opposite bring no long term gathering at all, you just buy a house pre- furnished, pointless ofc. All game publishers want customer money, that's not a crime as long as they give the content customers are looking for.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
At least when I'm playing a P2P game I know I don't have to deal with sleazy dev tactics to disguise money grab ploy as a feature, and the constant power struggle between cash shop vs content focus.
Can you give specific examples of what you consider to be sleazy tactics since your post compared FFXIV to GW2? You do realize that FFXIV is now going to have a cash shop on top of being P2P. This so called power struggle between cash shop and content will likely affect FFXIV. It is interesting how something that the majority of white knights proclaimed would never happen actually did. Their best response was always a comparison of A product to B product. Since FFXI has never gone F2P or introduced a cash shop then FFXIV will follow suite. I wonder where the logic is in that. What surprises me less is that some of these same white knights that said that it would never happen or that they would quit the game made a complete 180 degree turn in their opinion and are now stating "well it is just like any other business, more money for SE" just like every other (past discussions) MMO that modified or changed their P2P business model.
I wonder how people will react the day FFXIV changes their business model further (either by going B2P or F2P).
Why would FFXIV go free to play or buy to play? They are clearly doing well enough to move servers to Europe. They aren't merging servers or implementing megaservers. They obviously have a strong population.
You missed his whole point. I suggest you read again
i stopped playing this game awhile ago. Got 4 toons to max level, built a legendary - but most of the effort involved was early on when you could actually find mats in game in sufficient quantity to make it a grind but a reasonable grind.
Slowly, over time, anet has nerfed all rewards to the point I don't see how anyone could actually farm enough to make a legendary. So its all a cash grab now, and I'll wager many of the legendary on the AH are either from anet-owned accounts or from a guild who has a master crafter, have been funneling all their mats to this 1 toon, and this guy make the stuff.
The cash shop has been out of control for many months. Nicer looking stuff costs real $ - the stuff we can get in game is often a lot uglier. This new thing with gems is just another example of anet trying to milk this sucker for all its worth.
Add all of this plus the temp content and the recycled content and the insane content that requires 100+ people to coordinate to achieve something... yeah, game lost its appeal for me quite some time ago.
i stopped playing this game awhile ago. Got 4 toons to max level, built a legendary - but most of the effort involved was early on when you could actually find mats in game in sufficient quantity to make it a grind but a reasonable grind.
Slowly, over time, anet has nerfed all rewards to the point I don't see how anyone could actually farm enough to make a legendary. So its all a cash grab now, and I'll wager many of the legendary on the AH are either from anet-owned accounts or from a guild who has a master crafter, have been funneling all their mats to this 1 toon, and this guy make the stuff.
The cash shop has been out of control for many months. Nicer looking stuff costs real $ - the stuff we can get in game is often a lot uglier. This new thing with gems is just another example of anet trying to milk this sucker for all its worth.
Add all of this plus the temp content and the recycled content and the insane content that requires 100+ people to coordinate to achieve something... yeah, game lost its appeal for me quite some time ago.
I don't know if you are joking, but I made my legendary early as well and it was much harder to find T6 mats back then. Hell I get 20 t6 mats a day now just doing the World Event train. I wish it was this easy back at launch. We must be playing a different Guild Wars 2.
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
Your heard it folks.
NCSoft layoff people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Not to mention that they announced that this will be undone on the next patch which hits in 4 days.
But hey let's make some more badly informed posts without even really reading the content of this thread.
You can convert gold to gems in-game only in Multiple of 400 now in the name of Simplicity for newcomers. Nothing else is allowed. Prices of 400 gems have already skyrocketed to around 75 Gold which is a lot. This post on Reddit explains it really well.
This is the kind of bull**** that shows Anet has no interest in respecting their players. They use the guise of 'simplicity' to set up a market that is both cumbersome and unfair to players in order to force a marginal amount of players to spend real money on gems when they can't afford to exchange in denominations with actual gold. The same thing Microsoft got in a heap of shit for doing a few years ago[1] .
For those who don't understand what I mean, here's an example:
A player who doesn't have a lot of time, but has a lot of money (they have a job) buys gems. They buy 800 gems and purchase a 500 gem item. They have 300 gems left over. Then, they decide they want to purchase a 400 gem item, but they need 100 more gems. On the new system they cannot only convert gold into 100 gems, they need to convert at least 400 gems worth of gold. But they don't have that much gold, and because they don't have a lot of time to play, they can't farm it (and 400 gems isn't cheap, it's over 75 gold right now). Thus, this person must spend more real money on actual gems, at a minimum of $10 for 800 gems, even though they only wanted 100 gems.
This kind of practice is not "eliminating confusion", it's a practice to squeeze more money out of players and is basically one step below extortion. To make matters worse, it's being intentionally presented to players as helping them. THAT is truly despicable.
Oh, and by the way, take a look at what's in the store. Costumes priced at 700 gems, and accessory hats priced at 200 gems. Want them both? That's 900 gems. But you can't buy 800 gems and then convert gold for another 100. You need to convert at least 400 gems worth of gold. Can't convert that much? Then you're forced to buy another 800 gems. Anet knows EXACTLY what they're doing.
And the thing is, they probably planned this, too. They probably knew at least a few people would know exactly what they're doing. And I bet you they ran some metrics that said that the decrease in revenue by people who would get infuriated by this change was far less than the increase in revenue by players who are forced into buying gems in the new system. And in the world where players are numbers and not people, that's a total win.
Then they say that it was done so that it is less confusing to newcomers essentially shifting the blame. Basic maths is hard these days apparently. Also, they wanted it to be more like a shopping experience.
Gem Store prices are also being reported to have creeped upwards (new prices that aren't divisible by 400 conveniently).
They have also hidden the gem to gold conversion prices of the past few days. Now here is the interesting part. People who keep a personal exchange tracker noticed that the rate suddenly went up as soon as the new patch went live.
So yea, this is just some of the stuff which has happened. I think this deserves some kind of special award.
Only if the player is buying money ingame to make shortcuts.
Any smart player doesn't need to buy gems/gold through their shop.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Great argument... too bad it has nothing to do with anything I said. It's also generally deceptive... we already know Anet has let go quite a few people from gw2 launch until now.
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Great argument... too bad it has nothing to do with anything I said. It's also generally deceptive... we already know Anet has let go quite a few people from gw2 launch until now.
Anet increased their size.
No big layoffs were announced.
A few ( less than 10, maybe even less than 5) people left to pursue other opportunities or were fired.
But their positions still exist and they were replaced.
And the argument has everything to do with what you said - underperforming products get their business restructured, generally by staff reductions.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
well don't know if this was mentioned before but since its does not look like it.
when you go to buy gems or sell it you go to a window who elt you buy or sell in multiples of 400, but behold, right below right side, have a button who let you buy or sell any ammount of gems and yes you can type adn buy from 1 till the amx you can pay for.
also tera again? please that game is worse then aion, your guys big talk about bams are too damn annoying, people soloing bams also make this a too easy game. also what GW2 gameplay ahve to do with Tera? I prefer GW2 more fluid, fast and interesting.
but please continue to talk about how arena net will bankrupt and NCsoft will pull his plug from life support, its entertairing.
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Great argument... too bad it has nothing to do with anything I said. It's also generally deceptive... we already know Anet has let go quite a few people from gw2 launch until now.
Anet increased their size.
No big layoffs were announced.
A few ( less than 10, maybe even less than 5) people left to pursue other opportunities or were fired.
But their positions still exist and they were replaced.
And the argument has everything to do with what you said - underperforming products get their business restructured, generally by staff reductions.
Do underperforming products have declines in revenue for almost every quarter? Do they do things like megaservers to help the game feel more populated? Do they try to nickel and dime you? Do they have course corrections?
Rose tinted goggles much?
You don't know how Anet is staffed... for all you know they could be running at barebones for what they perceive they need to get done... what speaks louder than your subjective and biased assumptions about their staff, is what actually happens in the game.
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Great argument... too bad it has nothing to do with anything I said. It's also generally deceptive... we already know Anet has let go quite a few people from gw2 launch until now.
Anet increased their size.
No big layoffs were announced.
A few ( less than 10, maybe even less than 5) people left to pursue other opportunities or were fired.
But their positions still exist and they were replaced.
And the argument has everything to do with what you said - underperforming products get their business restructured, generally by staff reductions.
Do underperforming products have declines in revenue for almost every quarter? Do they do things like megaservers to help the game feel more populated? Do they try to nickel and dime you? Do they have course corrections?
Rose tinted goggles much?
You don't know how Anet is staffed... for all you know they could be running at barebones for what they perceive they need to get done... what speaks louder than your subjective and biased assumptions about their staff, is what actually happens in the game.
Declining revenues doesn't mean underperforming.
Likewise, increasing revenues doesn't mean over performing.
Performance is relative to expectations.
If the performance target was $10M per quarter 2 years down the road and Anet is doing $20M per quarter, even though the revenue declined, its over performing.
Megaservers help with player density.
Course corrections that mean more free content? Yes, please!
Not bad for a nickel and dime game that only sell fluff.
And of course "all the despair for money" turned into:
Game improvement.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
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Guildwars 2 - honestly... apart from buying the game, me, my wife and my 8 mates playing this game have not spent a dime. And you know what??? We are still competitive, still enjoy the game to the fullest and still do not bitch and moan about p2w - because it simply is not.. so when I read threads like this having a moan because ANet is trying to get money (omg what a revelation, how dare they right?) I just shake my head and leave you with the message "GET OVER IT, STOP BITCHING AND ENJOY THIS AWESOME GAME FREE OR PAY, EITHER WORKS YOU MOANING COW."
G'nite.
This thread is hilarious.
From people who never played GW2 and dont know WTF is it about to all regular trolls. It just shows quality of posters here.
The pinnacle is idiot who, as a proof of how successful P2P is, mentions SWTOR and WS, 2 games that failed SO hard that they had to (will have to) change their payment model and lay off most of their staff, while ANet hired (and is hiring more). You can add TESO to the layoff list, you can add Rift to the layoff/paymnet model change, you can add AoC, WHO, SW....All shining examples of success of P2P
If SWTOR and WS are success then GW 1/2 are EAs/Carbines wet dream.
But neither SWTOR or WS are success (WS might not even be around this time next year). It just a question which one failed harder guess its a matter of perspective, pretty much when looking at relative numbers WS broke many of SWTORS records, but in absolute numbers SWTOR still holds no.1 in most failure categories (it is Star Wars after all, biggest IP in the world, it will be no.1...just not at the right side of the board here lol )
TESOs numbers are SO good Zenimax didnt share any rofl. But they did have 5 million in beta
They made sure to mention THAT.
Next in the line of pearls is that "P2P provides some kind of stability" (or sumtin). Well, SWTOR, TESO, WS boasted that they will provide monthly updates and that that warrants a sub, that is the value. Just look how THAT value turned out. Subs are a scam, they milk 230-260 $ a year just to have ACCESS to the game, along teh cash shop, while not providing ANYTHING AT ALL more than F2P/B2P games. Its what is called SUCKER TAX where i come from.
But yeah, harp on, buisiness as usual here, bunch of uber nonsense rofl, if i went through all of it it would take way more time than i wanto spend on these boards.
Failed or not, those games still getting content and updates. And expansions.
Vanguard also got content updates...even "expansion" rofl. So Vanguard is great tale of P2P success also. Theres not enough rolfs in the world.
Anyway, as much as hilarious these forums are theyre not worth the time, sitcoms are better.
I'm not even getting into this one again. If you don't see it, that's great, I wasn't so fortunate.
Exactly this.... I have been saying this for the past year and everybody always defends Anet. But now everybody is seeing the updates for what they are.......... good for them.
Thanks Anet, everytime I'm considering spending money in your cash shop you guys do something like this to remind me now too......THANKS.
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==
I remember criticizing ANET right after the destruction of Lion's Arch in order to promote sales of the Air Ship passes. Did I catch a load of hell for that. LOL.
And today LA services are available again.
And I still have air ship passes I've never used that dropped as loot.
Generally the most vocal against some features in these forums are people that don't play and imagine crazy consequences that anyone actually playing know are way exaggerated.
But I guess that is a dogma:
$15/month is super duper and needed to pay for updated content and not a monthly cash grab.
Stuff that is fluff or small convenience and completely skippable is a cash grab.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Can you give specific examples of what you consider to be sleazy tactics since your post compared FFXIV to GW2? You do realize that FFXIV is now going to have a cash shop on top of being P2P. This so called power struggle between cash shop and content will likely affect FFXIV. It is interesting how something that the majority of white knights proclaimed would never happen actually did. Their best response was always a comparison of A product to B product. Since FFXI has never gone F2P or introduced a cash shop then FFXIV will follow suite. I wonder where the logic is in that. What surprises me less is that some of these same white knights that said that it would never happen or that they would quit the game made a complete 180 degree turn in their opinion and are now stating "well it is just like any other business, more money for SE" just like every other (past discussions) MMO that modified or changed their P2P business model.
I wonder how people will react the day FFXIV changes their business model further (either by going B2P or F2P).
Why would FFXIV go free to play or buy to play? They are clearly doing well enough to move servers to Europe. They aren't merging servers or implementing megaservers. They obviously have a strong population.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You missed his whole point. I suggest you read again
i stopped playing this game awhile ago. Got 4 toons to max level, built a legendary - but most of the effort involved was early on when you could actually find mats in game in sufficient quantity to make it a grind but a reasonable grind.
Slowly, over time, anet has nerfed all rewards to the point I don't see how anyone could actually farm enough to make a legendary. So its all a cash grab now, and I'll wager many of the legendary on the AH are either from anet-owned accounts or from a guild who has a master crafter, have been funneling all their mats to this 1 toon, and this guy make the stuff.
The cash shop has been out of control for many months. Nicer looking stuff costs real $ - the stuff we can get in game is often a lot uglier. This new thing with gems is just another example of anet trying to milk this sucker for all its worth.
Add all of this plus the temp content and the recycled content and the insane content that requires 100+ people to coordinate to achieve something... yeah, game lost its appeal for me quite some time ago.
I don't know if you are joking, but I made my legendary early as well and it was much harder to find T6 mats back then. Hell I get 20 t6 mats a day now just doing the World Event train. I wish it was this easy back at launch. We must be playing a different Guild Wars 2.
Guys, drop this game and go to TERA Online. I re-discovered this game a while back and it is probably one of the best F2P/B2P MMOs I have ever played. Just look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eapIXHBHGj4&list=UUe2FTU0537rZQ2X9GZneuWA
You can't beat that kind of PvE...
My gaming blog
That...is horrible advice. Great game, but horrible advice.
Anyway, everyone who is considering playing TERA, it will be on steam soon...hopefully.
http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/TERA-Is-Coming-to-Steam-Steam-FAQs-119579
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Wait, what did people expect?
B2P mmo which has had declining revenues in almost all quarters.. did you honestly expect them to just say "guys let's just keep doing what we've been doing til we make absolutely nothing".
These are the tricks that cash shop games must utilize when they underperform... because they can not rely on steady revenue from a secure source.
The signs have been there that the game hasn't been performing well... false numbers reports by chinese publishers, megaservers to make the world feel more populated... "course corrections".
Sure there are some fanbois that love the fact that you can't fail in this game... and think everyone else must love it... but GW2 lost most of its players shortly after launch... twitch could have told you that.
You heard it folks.
NCSoft laid off people across the entire western business except Arenanet.
But caeftl knows that GW2 is underperforming.
Maybe NCSoft is also full of GW2 fanboys?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Not to mention that they announced that this will be undone on the next patch which hits in 4 days.
But hey let's make some more badly informed posts without even really reading the content of this thread.
Only if the player is buying money ingame to make shortcuts.
Any smart player doesn't need to buy gems/gold through their shop.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Great argument... too bad it has nothing to do with anything I said. It's also generally deceptive... we already know Anet has let go quite a few people from gw2 launch until now.
Anet increased their size.
No big layoffs were announced.
A few ( less than 10, maybe even less than 5) people left to pursue other opportunities or were fired.
But their positions still exist and they were replaced.
And the argument has everything to do with what you said - underperforming products get their business restructured, generally by staff reductions.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
well don't know if this was mentioned before but since its does not look like it.
when you go to buy gems or sell it you go to a window who elt you buy or sell in multiples of 400, but behold, right below right side, have a button who let you buy or sell any ammount of gems and yes you can type adn buy from 1 till the amx you can pay for.
also tera again? please that game is worse then aion, your guys big talk about bams are too damn annoying, people soloing bams also make this a too easy game. also what GW2 gameplay ahve to do with Tera? I prefer GW2 more fluid, fast and interesting.
but please continue to talk about how arena net will bankrupt and NCsoft will pull his plug from life support, its entertairing.
Do underperforming products have declines in revenue for almost every quarter? Do they do things like megaservers to help the game feel more populated? Do they try to nickel and dime you? Do they have course corrections?
Rose tinted goggles much?
You don't know how Anet is staffed... for all you know they could be running at barebones for what they perceive they need to get done... what speaks louder than your subjective and biased assumptions about their staff, is what actually happens in the game.
Declining revenues doesn't mean underperforming.
Likewise, increasing revenues doesn't mean over performing.
Performance is relative to expectations.
If the performance target was $10M per quarter 2 years down the road and Anet is doing $20M per quarter, even though the revenue declined, its over performing.
Megaservers help with player density.
Course corrections that mean more free content? Yes, please!
Not bad for a nickel and dime game that only sell fluff.
And of course "all the despair for money" turned into:
Game improvement.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders