You're doing it wrong (myself included)!!!

Wighty

Ok everyone bitches about P2W and F2P and Subs, and box price and all the costs included in what is probably the cheapest form of public entertainment out there.

 

In the US and for the most part everywhere that's not Asia gamers are looked at like basement dwelling neckbeards playing violent video games waiting to blow up the neighboring kindergarten school while listening to Ozzy Ozbourne.

 

Meanwhile in Asia there are no Kardashians, Beyonce's Jay Z's, Real Housewives of Hong Kong or Justin Beibers... Instead there are gamers. Gaming is celebrated and embraced by the entire community, in the same way teenaged girls from NJ flocked to Bon Jovi!

 

Just feast your eyes on this...

http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/3/7149137/league-of-legends-pro-player-retires-to-stream

http://www.ongamers.com/articles/we-play-here-so-you-don-t-have-to-embarrass-yourse/1100-2309/

 

Just to put things into perspective, I make a reasonable low 6 figure income and have to bust my ass to do so, and I love gaming yet I am not telling the hot chic I just met at the bar "I spend my spare time killing monsters in <insert mmo/rpg here>" This guy is getting 800+k for simply streaming a game 90 hours a MONTH.... not week, MONTH...

 

So all of you working at Walmart trying to feed a family of 6 or some broke college kid looking at $250k in student debt  bitching about P2W, F2P, subs... Please review above. There is the obvious conventional 40 hours a week at some shitty job making some meanial salaray from some company that will gladly replace you with 2+ people making half as much... Start thinking outside the box and make the internet and your hobby/passion work for you and not against you!

Waterlily

Principal opposition to P2W or cash shops is often because of ideological reasons, not monetary.

When Everquest first introduced the ability to gain items through a card game, the main arguments against it were ideological, gaining items by circumventing the game world.

I am opposed to cash shop, not because they cost money, but simply because a sword should have a history, a scar should tell a story, the lore behind it shouldn't be a VISA card.

nerovergil

VISA card has its own story. u live real word too, remember?

Scalpless

P2W bothers me because it makes the game less fun, not because I can't afford it. If I win due to being richer than the other guy, it's meaningless and unsatisfying. I want to get an awesome sword by killing a dragon. Getting it by paying 10$ would just make me feel stupid.

SpottyGekko

Originally posted by Waterlily

Principal opposition to P2W or cash shops is often because of ideological reasons, not monetary.

When Everquest first introduced the ability to gain items through a card game, the main arguments against it were ideological, gaining items by circumventing the game world.

I am opposed to cash shop, not because they cost money, but simply because a sword should have a history, a scar should tell a story, the lore behind it shouldn't be a VISA card.

Yes, in those halcyon days before the dawn of the Cash Shop, the uber items in the game often did have very interesting and exciting stories attached to them.

 

Those stories were about the tension and excitement of secretly buying items on e-bay or from some shady third-party RMT website, where you never knew whether you'd be scammed or not... 

 

Cash Shops didn't introduce items for real money in MMO's. They simply formalised it, made it safer and brought it into the mainstream.

fivoroth

Money is not an issue. and I don't want to become a streaming celebrity lol.

thinktank001

Originally posted by Waterlily

Principal opposition to P2W or cash shops is often because of ideological reasons, not monetary.

 

I would probably disagree.  The microtransaction model is fundamentally different in design because there is always the need to enable game mechanics to be monetized.   I don't doubt that the original arguments that players made were strongly based on their beliefs, but now that there is a large number of games using this model it should be pretty evident to all players that they are just fundamentally different, and most of the time that difference is the cost.

 

Hedeon

Originally posted by Waterlily

Principal opposition to P2W or cash shops is often because of ideological reasons, not monetary.

When Everquest first introduced the ability to gain items through a card game, the main arguments against it were ideological, gaining items by circumventing the game world.

I am opposed to cash shop, not because they cost money, but simply because a sword should have a history, a scar should tell a story, the lore behind it shouldn't be a VISA card.

This is my take on it as well, and is what I always say about F2P games.....I dont care to play the mall game.

but by now the history behind items is next to non exsistant, when the way you gain items is to get x amount of tokens, then go to an NPC and buy it, which I find to be as flat as just bringing out the VISA.

very sad to me how EQ2 have developed in this direction - items going from used to be special, to now being the minimum for which ever raid or instance you d want to do.

immodium

And If kids try really hard they can easily earn in excess of £100,000 a week playing football(soccer). The people making that sort of cash are professional gamers. They put in15+ hours a day for years to get professional and then start streaming.

It's far from easy. GL if anyone decides to try it.

Alber_gamer

OP sounds as if anyone could do what this LoL pro does.

 

First, there is an insane level of dedication involved. Basically, your life needs to be fully invested into the game, from the moment you wake up until you go bed every day.

 

When you are finally decently good, you may be able to get some cash out of streaming, but that'll take years. And that is only if you are decently good. No amount of time investment or practice will guarantee that you'll be that good. Some people simply are inept, it's a genetic thing.

 

So yeah, good luck to those who try to be the new LoL superstar. Might as well try to be the new Cristiano Ronaldo and make $30 million a year instead. 

Azaron_Nightblade

Originally posted by Alber_gamer

OP sounds as if anyone could do what this LoL pro does.

 

First, there is an insane level of dedication involved. Basically, your life needs to be fully invested into the game, from the moment you wake up until you go bed every day.

 

When you are finally decently good, you may be able to get some cash out of streaming, but that'll take years. And that is only if you are decently good. No amount of time investment or practice will guarantee that you'll be that good. Some people simply are inept, it's a genetic thing.

 

So yeah, good luck to those who try to be the new LoL superstar. Might as well try to be the new Cristiano Ronaldo and make $30 million a year instead. 

Pretty much.

It's the combination of talent and practice that decides how far you can progress in a certain field.

Forgrimm

OP, you should probably remove the first sentence of your post. It seems that half of the people who replied didn't read past that sentence and have derailed the thread into a discussion about cash shops.

nerovergil

Originally posted by Scalpless
P2W bothers me because it makes the game less fun, not because I can't afford it. If I win due to being richer than the other guy, it's meaningless and unsatisfying. I want to get an awesome sword by killing a dragon. Getting it by paying 10$ would just make me feel stupid.

u get legendary because u grind the whole map, dungeon for 2 years straight

iridescence

Originally posted by nerovergil

Originally posted by Scalpless
P2W bothers me because it makes the game less fun, not because I can't afford it. If I win due to being richer than the other guy, it's meaningless and unsatisfying. I want to get an awesome sword by killing a dragon. Getting it by paying 10$ would just make me feel stupid.

u get legendary because u grind the whole map, dungeon for 2 years straight

Even if true in some games is still better than buying your legend with a damn credit card. P2W is lame. How any real gamer could defend it is beyond me.

 

Kopogero

For me it will always be...

Fully free to play => Pay to Win => Buy for promises or just to test/try

I've said it before and I'll say it again, monthly subs, buy to play are a dying model (you end up paying $180 a year for a sub for a single game, minus any expansions). You've all seen this more evidently in the last couple years. If you are a gamer you should rejoice this since you are in charge, in control on what you want to spend your $. You have the opportunity to not be scammed and lured on hypes or broken promises.

The ideal price for me to play a single game per year is $50-70. Anything above that it's not worth it, not in 2014 with all the choices I got available. This means I would pay $5 a month top for a sub to access the game. On the other hand to buy a game $50-70 and get free access to all, until further expansions, something like the Guild Wars 2 model it would have to be amazingly good and proven over a significant period before I "buy into it"

In Asia games are far more popular because of population issues. So, more people are involved with them and find them as a cheaper way of entertainment.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Kopogero

For me it will always be...

Fully free to play => Pay to Win => Buy for promises or just to test/try

I've said it before and I'll say it again, monthly subs, buy to play are a dying model (you end up paying $180 a year for a sub for a single game, minus any expansions).

But what if the game requires that much per person to stay afloat?

What you are not taking into account is that with the typical "free to play" model "someone" is taking up the slack and paying a lot extra.

So it's very possible they still require that great amount of money but instead of charging every person who plays they depend on those who are willing to open up their wallets.

I did this twice now so I'll mention it agian: look at how much it cost to make skyrim (yes, I know a single player game) look at how much they charged and then how much they sold to in order to cover their costs and make a profit.

It cost 85 million to make Skyrim. What AAA mmo is even in that ballpark? On top of that, the revenue is insane. 450 million in the first week and total over a billion. What mmo other than WoW can even come close to that?

So you have an mmo that is 100 million to 200 million to make. If they sell 1 million at release at 60 dollars per pop they won't even cover their development costs. And over time box sales go down.

It's expensive to make and continually develop an mmo. The only reason f2p works is that some people are willing to open up their wallets to cover the amount that other people aren't willing to pay.

Or, one could have a sub and everyone shares equally in cost. But people don't want to do that. They want to play games that cost a lot of money but not pay their share.