Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
I was wondering when the semantics police would get here to start dissecting terminology
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
For what it's worth, I'm honestly pretty sure either Trion or XLGames (probably both) believes it's pay-to-win. Really, Archeage ticks off on the vast majority of the points in R2Games' business' "Pay To Win is profitable!!!!!!1" presentation, and I find it highly unlikely that other companies would come up with such a similar business model without having put similar thought as R2Games on WHY they made the model that way (I linked to it in another thread but I'll re-link it here if anyone wants it).
The Pay-to-Win business model is no trade secret (to the point where R2Games just blurted it out and doesn't give a crap that it's now in front of everyones' face with their presentation). Any company that institutes gambling boxes, equipment enhancements, and energy/stamina refills in their game's cash shop (among other things) probably knows what they're getting into and why.
Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
"You gain a distinct advantage by paying money over and beyond the sub cost."
where is the winning condition in that sentence ?
Please provide a definitioon for "Win" in archeage. "Advantage" is not sufficient enough to give the full state of "win" and to replace the term "win" with.
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
People who frequent this site are like those crusty old farts who always say "Back in my day..... I walked 15 miles to school, through blizzards, uphill the entire way (blah blah blah)" who talk up the old days which is like that fish story whose size keeps growing bigger n bigger with each retelling. They are the vocal minority whom Carbine swore up n down where the real voice of the MMO genre and we all know how their game ended. This site is pretty crap from the community to the actual staffing and their shitacular reviews who conduct "modding" with neo-nazi approach.
P2W doesn't mean it's a bad game. But I "believe" it's a bad business model for the consumer.
You don't need to believe it's bad for the consumer. Businesses KNOW it's bad for the consumer. R2Games explicitly says "Games' short life span" as one of the cons to such a model. They do it anyways because it's profitable as hell.
Originally posted by DMKano If ArcheAge is p2w than all games are p2w. In WoW you can buy a high level character - doesn't that give you an advantage over those that didn't pay and start at level 1? Everything in AA cash shop can be bough for via gold in game - this includes cash shop credits, you can buy those with gold too.
This and because in other games people with jobs hstand no chance in Archeage gamers with jobs have the option to stay competetive against the basement dwellers.
Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
"You gain a distinct advantage by paying money over and beyond the sub cost."
where is the winning condition in that sentence ?
Please provide a definitioon for "Win" in archeage. "Advantage" is not sufficient enough to give the full state of "win" and to replace the term "win" with.
Semantics. Point is someone spending loads of cash is unbeatable and contributes more to team fights.
In a game like TERA, the best they can do is look really cool. Gameplay-wise they cannot get an advantage over you outside of the game.
It's called Free 2 Play. NOT Free 2 Win. In AA and all P2W games you may be able to win with out spending money but you will have to work for it. If you are a P4F player and want BIS gear then expect to spend 6 to 12 months working for it. If you have money them expect to get it anytime you want. ALL games were made for people who spend money. Not for Play 4 Free gamers. You want to cry that no game will let you Play 4 Free, then it sucks to be you! No one who makes gamer cares! Games aren't made for Play 4 Free gamers!
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
People who frequent this site are like those crusty old farts who always say "Back in my day..... I walked 15 miles to school, through blizzards, uphill the entire way (blah blah blah)" who talk up the old days which is like that fish story whose size keeps growing bigger n bigger with each retelling. They are the vocal minority whom Carbine swore up n down where the real voice of the MMO genre and we all know how their game ended. This site is pretty crap from the community to the actual staffing and their shitacular reviews who conduct "modding" with neo-nazi approach.
Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
"You gain a distinct advantage by paying money over and beyond the sub cost."
where is the winning condition in that sentence ?
Please provide a definitioon for "Win" in archeage. "Advantage" is not sufficient enough to give the full state of "win" and to replace the term "win" with.
And that's what you "believe" and what you "believe" does not make another's "belief" invalid or vice versa
Originally posted by DMKano If ArcheAge is p2w than all games are p2w. In WoW you can buy a high level character - doesn't that give you an advantage over those that didn't pay and start at level 1? Everything in AA cash shop can be bough for via gold in game - this includes cash shop credits, you can buy those with gold too.
And won't it be a sad day for gaming when every game is P2W
Originally posted by Konfess It's called Free 2 Play. NOT Free 2 Win. In AA and all P2W games you may be able to win with out spending money but you will have to work for it. If you are a P4F player and want BIS gear then expect to spend 6 to 12 months working for it. If you have money them expect to get it anytime you want. ALL games were made for people who spend money. Not for Play 4 Free gamers. You want to cry that no game will let you Play 4 Free, then it sucks to be you! No one who makes gamer cares! Games aren't made for Play 4 Free gamers!
They aren't made for people who spend money in general either. That's just bonus pennies. They're made for WHALES.
If you saw that South Park episode on Freemium games, you might note that they start out saying "Oh, tons of people paying $2 here and $5 here is millions of revenue!", but then near the end they instead reveal the TRUTH. That they make the majority of their money off of addicts who spend a TON of money, and Joe Bob who only spends $30 to $300 (which already is a lot for one game) is practically irrelevant compared to the money pulled in by one guy spending thousands.
Now, you might say "Oh, that's South Park" but that's pretty much just copied and pasted from stuff business companies have publically stated (in fact, the entire episode is practically just a copy and paste of various F2P companies' statements. That's one of the reasons why the episode is kinda not that funny, honestly. It's basically just a copy and paste of real life stuff. Well-researched though)
If you need citations, it's right there in R2Games' presentation (again, I can give the link if you want it. Though I posted it in another thread already so I don't want to overdo that). They explicitly state the vast majority of their profits come from whales. They aren't the only ones though. I no longer have the links but I've seen several companies over the years state that 95% or so of their F2P revenues come from like, 5% of their players or something like that.
If you ask around in Archeage, you'll find several players who spent thousands. Odds are most other players' $15 a month patron payment is practically not even worth a footnote in the financial statements (the $150 founder pack sales might be, though)
Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
I was wondering when the semantics police would get here to start dissecting terminology
I thought that by using words like "believe" and "belief" that we might be able to get away from that.
And to all the AA fans out there:
P2W doesn't mean it's a bad game. But I "believe" it's a bad business model for the consumer.
Yeah I know. I even poked a bit of fun at the belief part with my video link but I knew why you were doing it
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by DMKano If ArcheAge is p2w than all games are p2w. In WoW you can buy a high level character - doesn't that give you an advantage over those that didn't pay and start at level 1? Everything in AA cash shop can be bough for via gold in game - this includes cash shop credits, you can buy those with gold too.
Originally posted by DMKano If ArcheAge is p2w than all games are p2w. In WoW you can buy a high level character - doesn't that give you an advantage over those that didn't pay and start at level 1? Everything in AA cash shop can be bough for via gold in game - this includes cash shop credits, you can buy those with gold too.
And won't it be a sad day for gaming when every game is P2W
That's where were headed
Maybe we should redefine the word "game"
WOW's saving grace is that the best items are still Bind on Pick-up (BOP) and can't be sold in the AH. And since most of us equate "winning" with being most powerful (whether in Raids or PVP it's irrelevant) then no, WOW is not P2W even though you can certainly pay to get close to it with the 90 boost.
Ironically, the games that are best for crafters - where the best items are crafted and can be sold - all have the potential to be bought with ill-gotten gold.... and that makes them P2W even though it's not as egregious a form of P2W as other more blatant models.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by DMKano If ArcheAge is p2w than all games are p2w. In WoW you can buy a high level character - doesn't that give you an advantage over those that didn't pay and start at level 1? Everything in AA cash shop can be bough for via gold in game - this includes cash shop credits, you can buy those with gold too.
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
You're sounding kinda Butt-hurt yourself there dude.
Nah, this is just entertainment for me. I'm a level 100 poster now and got my Elite title. Woo hoo! No achievement though. Maybe MMORPG.com will add them in the next expansion. Maybe not, because this game seems like it's dying.
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
You're sounding kinda Butt-hurt yourself there dude.
Nah, this is just entertainment for me. I'm a level 100 poster now and got my Elite title. Woo hoo! No achievement though. Maybe MMORPG.com will add them in the next expansion. Maybe not, because this game seems like it's dying.
I heard that the odds for that achievement are like 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 but if you buy this potion from the cash shop you can cut the odds down to 100:1
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
You're sounding kinda Butt-hurt yourself there dude.
Nah, this is just entertainment for me. I'm a level 100 poster now and got my Elite title. Woo hoo! No achievement though. Maybe MMORPG.com will add them in the next expansion. Maybe not, because this game seems like it's dying.
I heard that the odds for that achievement are like 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 but if you buy this potion from the cash shop you can cut the odds down to 100:1
Really? I don't know why they need a cash shop with all the bogus reviews paid for by advertisers. Cash grab?
Define "win" or provide the winning condition for Archeage.
Poll is useless.
"You gain a distinct advantage by paying money over and beyond the sub cost."
where is the winning condition in that sentence ?
Please provide a definitioon for "Win" in archeage. "Advantage" is not sufficient enough to give the full state of "win" and to replace the term "win" with.
To 'Win' does not just mean to cross the finish line. It also means to reach a goal before others or faster than others. In a game like an MMO, the ability to bypass content/restrictions/grind with a purchase is to gain an advantage over those who do not make the same purchase.
You may not like it, but you cannot keep moving the finish line to suit your argument. It's a show of desperation.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Lets find out what the majority of mmorpg.com members believe
This community is hardly representative of gamers. Hell, it's hardly representative of MMO players. As long as you don't say this data is proof that AA is P2W, then cool.
You'll now know how many petty, butt-hurt, sheeple think AA is P2W. Congrats!
You're sounding kinda Butt-hurt yourself there dude.
Nah, this is just entertainment for me. I'm a level 100 poster now and got my Elite title. Woo hoo! No achievement though. Maybe MMORPG.com will add them in the next expansion. Maybe not, because this game seems like it's dying.
I heard that the odds for that achievement are like 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 but if you buy this potion from the cash shop you can cut the odds down to 100:1
Really? I don't know why they need a cash shop with all the bogus reviews paid for by advertisers. Cash grab?
Comments
No shit Sherlock
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I was wondering when the semantics police would get here to start dissecting terminology
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For what it's worth, I'm honestly pretty sure either Trion or XLGames (probably both) believes it's pay-to-win. Really, Archeage ticks off on the vast majority of the points in R2Games' business' "Pay To Win is profitable!!!!!!1" presentation, and I find it highly unlikely that other companies would come up with such a similar business model without having put similar thought as R2Games on WHY they made the model that way (I linked to it in another thread but I'll re-link it here if anyone wants it).
The Pay-to-Win business model is no trade secret (to the point where R2Games just blurted it out and doesn't give a crap that it's now in front of everyones' face with their presentation). Any company that institutes gambling boxes, equipment enhancements, and energy/stamina refills in their game's cash shop (among other things) probably knows what they're getting into and why.
where is the winning condition in that sentence ?
Please provide a definitioon for "Win" in archeage. "Advantage" is not sufficient enough to give the full state of "win" and to replace the term "win" with.
Just to put things into a little perspective, my district just elected a dead man to congress...
Just saying...
I thought that by using words like "believe" and "belief" that we might be able to get away from that.
And to all the AA fans out there:
P2W doesn't mean it's a bad game. But I "believe" it's a bad business model for the consumer.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
People who frequent this site are like those crusty old farts who always say "Back in my day..... I walked 15 miles to school, through blizzards, uphill the entire way (blah blah blah)" who talk up the old days which is like that fish story whose size keeps growing bigger n bigger with each retelling. They are the vocal minority whom Carbine swore up n down where the real voice of the MMO genre and we all know how their game ended. This site is pretty crap from the community to the actual staffing and their shitacular reviews who conduct "modding" with neo-nazi approach.
You don't need to believe it's bad for the consumer. Businesses KNOW it's bad for the consumer. R2Games explicitly says "Games' short life span" as one of the cons to such a model. They do it anyways because it's profitable as hell.
This and because in other games people with jobs hstand no chance in Archeage gamers with jobs have the option to stay competetive against the basement dwellers.
Semantics. Point is someone spending loads of cash is unbeatable and contributes more to team fights.
In a game like TERA, the best they can do is look really cool. Gameplay-wise they cannot get an advantage over you outside of the game.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Jaws?
And that's what you "believe" and what you "believe" does not make another's "belief" invalid or vice versa
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
And won't it be a sad day for gaming when every game is P2W
That's where were headed
Maybe we should redefine the word "game"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
They aren't made for people who spend money in general either. That's just bonus pennies. They're made for WHALES.
If you saw that South Park episode on Freemium games, you might note that they start out saying "Oh, tons of people paying $2 here and $5 here is millions of revenue!", but then near the end they instead reveal the TRUTH. That they make the majority of their money off of addicts who spend a TON of money, and Joe Bob who only spends $30 to $300 (which already is a lot for one game) is practically irrelevant compared to the money pulled in by one guy spending thousands.
Now, you might say "Oh, that's South Park" but that's pretty much just copied and pasted from stuff business companies have publically stated (in fact, the entire episode is practically just a copy and paste of various F2P companies' statements. That's one of the reasons why the episode is kinda not that funny, honestly. It's basically just a copy and paste of real life stuff. Well-researched though)
If you need citations, it's right there in R2Games' presentation (again, I can give the link if you want it. Though I posted it in another thread already so I don't want to overdo that). They explicitly state the vast majority of their profits come from whales. They aren't the only ones though. I no longer have the links but I've seen several companies over the years state that 95% or so of their F2P revenues come from like, 5% of their players or something like that.
If you ask around in Archeage, you'll find several players who spent thousands. Odds are most other players' $15 a month patron payment is practically not even worth a footnote in the financial statements (the $150 founder pack sales might be, though)
Yeah I know. I even poked a bit of fun at the belief part with my video link but I knew why you were doing it
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Which vendor can you go buy it from?
WOW's saving grace is that the best items are still Bind on Pick-up (BOP) and can't be sold in the AH. And since most of us equate "winning" with being most powerful (whether in Raids or PVP it's irrelevant) then no, WOW is not P2W even though you can certainly pay to get close to it with the 90 boost.
Ironically, the games that are best for crafters - where the best items are crafted and can be sold - all have the potential to be bought with ill-gotten gold.... and that makes them P2W even though it's not as egregious a form of P2W as other more blatant models.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Look at that.
"......ArcheAge........All games.........*******BOOM!******............WoW!"
Nice deflection there. Too bad the poll is about ArcheAge.
Oh and thanks for confirming that Archeage is P2W.
Nah, this is just entertainment for me. I'm a level 100 poster now and got my Elite title. Woo hoo! No achievement though. Maybe MMORPG.com will add them in the next expansion. Maybe not, because this game seems like it's dying.
I heard that the odds for that achievement are like 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 but if you buy this potion from the cash shop you can cut the odds down to 100:1
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Really? I don't know why they need a cash shop with all the bogus reviews paid for by advertisers. Cash grab?
To 'Win' does not just mean to cross the finish line. It also means to reach a goal before others or faster than others. In a game like an MMO, the ability to bypass content/restrictions/grind with a purchase is to gain an advantage over those who do not make the same purchase.
You may not like it, but you cannot keep moving the finish line to suit your argument. It's a show of desperation.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I know just look at the tripe
"League of Angels"
"Conquer co.99.com REAL FIGHT, TRUE BLOOD"
Do people really play this shit?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I vote for you laserit.
You keep the endless discuss about p2w around AA but at least you have a pool