When you read a fantasy novel you will not see anything in an MMORPG, including EQN, that will come close to the descriptions if the book is well written.
Totally agree, just seems to be a view that mmorpgs or rpgs in general have to function under some unwritten rules. Which isn't the case. Removing or adding X doesn't cause the entire system to collapse.
Slower tab combat might be someone's ideal mmorpg combat, doesn't mean everyone shares that view, and obviously devs/companies do no either. As with anything, time moves on and things change. I loved MUDs, just as I enjoyed EQ/WoW and a long list of other games. I'm ready to move forward.
Whatever the normal time to kill is, when you get a spike you die ultra quick compared to the normal rate. If it's PvP the rate will probably be faster. Landmark runs like hell on a decent machine, so there is a lot of work to do in that department. Regardless, the issue of latency will almost certainly be more of a problem in EQN than a game where you pick from 50+ buttons.
Until proven, we'll just have to wait and see. EQN might melt my PC when I try to play it, no clue yet.
So I imagine your last line is meant to imply that the forums should be devoid of dissenting opinions. I might not champion the game, but I can still talk about it.
We are all free to do what we wish (for the most part). Just confused as to why some of you that clearly do not like EQN for what it is, continue to go on and on about it. Your opinions/views/complaints/issues have zero impact on the game's future. It's one thing to be a fan and have a critical view, it is another to totally dislike something from the ground up.
If I went into the WoW forum and started going on and on about how I don't like XYZ and don't want to ever play the game, I wouldn't be shocked if people didn't find it constructive. It just doesn't make a lot of sense beyond having an ax to grind and boredom I guess
I don't think storybricks is going to effect combat all that much..
Except that they've already said SB will impact combat in a similar way that it plays out in non-combat content. Obviously we have to see some proof, but I'll wait for it as your guess doesn't outweigh statements made by devs creating the game.
My biggest issue is that NO ONE will be a squishy, because you removed the tank feature from the game.. If every class is able to defend themselves, where is the deterrent to keep groups from zerging combat?
Tank = Taunt to you? You "tanks" were removed, but in what way? They've clearly said that players can still play the front line, keep everyone safe, role. Be it standing between the enemy and friendlies or using CC or whatever other tools available to keep the mob off the weaker allies.
The degree to which each class will be able to "defend" itself is still unknown. While everyone will have tools to use, I doubt it will be equal across the board, removing any reason to play different classes. Why design 40+ classes to make them all the same?
Tanks still exist in typical trinity mmorpgs in PVP and in MOBAs where there is no taunt/agro. To me, Tanking is a role, not a gamey mechanic.
We don't know what will keep the zerg from happening, but I'm guessing it has something to do with Storybricks. Again, they've said they have played games like GW2 and aren't making that game. Why didn't people zerg in EQ? Systems in place to make it less effective. Not that difficult. Games that have zerging usually were designed with it in mind or simply have bad mechanics that all zerging as an exploit.
None of the games I'm aware of have tested the limits without lag.. I can promise you that NO shooter game out there can design and allow 30 people in a central location without lag. There is a reason why the best MOBA or PvP games deal with small "team" numbers..
PS2 has massive battles with lots of players, vehicles, special effects, etc...
TF2 allows for 32 player servers without issue.
Haven't played CS for a bit, but servers allowed for decent numbers as well without slide show action.
WoW had 40 vs 40 battles, no problem.
DAoC, ESO, GW2, massive battles although DAoC did suffer simply because of the tech of the time.
Overall, there are plenty of examples of massive PVE/PVP combat in various types of games without problems. If lag is going to happen, it will happen no matter if you are using tab or aiming.
Lag exists. It is real. It isn't going away. But to say that it will be terrible in EQN without any evidence (yet) is just another guess.
That last paragraph is the closest we've agreed upon anything.. I do look at games as a devils advocate, mainly because I experienced too many "Murphy's Law" events.. SOE has a bad track record of NOT seeing disaster before it hits.. Maybe because the devs are so blinded in love with their games in development, the don''t see all the problems until after the honeymoon is over.. By then it's too late, you're already married.. To this day, I get the same feeling as I did with SWG, Vanguard and EQ2 when they were all released.. Too many potential problems with NO recognition or plan if disaster hits.. Then what?
It happens and unfortunately no one can predict the future. Some of us might guess right sometimes, but it is still a guess in most cases that could go multiple ways.
Landmark is the perfect testing ground, and it has already shown them that PvP play and combat is NOT welcomed.. It is no surprise that most in Landmark do NOT enjoy the combat system so far.. We keep hearing how it is "work in progress" etc etc.. There comes a point you need to CUT YOUR LOSSES, and move on.. I question EQN's ability to recognize they can't design the combat system they want, and will force a bad system, in hopes they find a cure after it launches..
This is just a matter of who you talk to or what you read. Many people seem to enjoy Landmark's combat just fine. It is a work in progress, they seem to have started on the crazy end and are slowly bringing it in line. Landmark also functions differently then EQN and I don't expect them to have mirrored systems in every way. Combat shown for EQN (staged as it is) hasn't been anything like Landmark's bunny hopping. Once we have some mobs types in place and we can see how combat will work in PVE, maybe we'll start to see some EQN peeking through.
In avionics there is the "point of no return", whereas you've gone too far to return to where you came from, so you have no choice but to gamble and hope you make it to your destination.. I'm wondering if EQN has a point written on the calendar, or if they are just winging it from day to day?
They have been going on the same path for a while now. 2-3 Years from the sound of it. I've yet to seem them make any drastic adjustments or change their tune, don't expect them to in the near future. Again, without context, we really don't know how a lot of the game will even work. Assuming they have a slightly better picture on their end. Sure they could be blinded by their love of their own creation, but they are also gamers. While I could see them all blindly following someone in the studio or just collecting a check, I'm assuming everyone is pitching in and trying to make it the best game for everyone, not just a select few.
It has nothing to do with luck of the draw, it has everything to do with hardware capabilities along with ISP speeds.. If EQN plans on everyone having the most current super graphics card with 50mbs d/l speeds, be ready for a very small audience..
So you've asked every single Landmark player and have facts to back this up? I've read a wide variety of systems working perfectly fine in Landmark. It simply isn't optimized and won't be for quite a while. No different then any other game in the genre ever. Could the end result require a some what "good" gaming PC? Sure, but this would also assume that they aren't going to allow for a wide variety of options to turn settings up/down to compensate. Currently though, even it the state it's in, people with several year old computers can play fine. I've seen people with almost identical machines run totally different, just how it is for now.
All of that is yet to be seen by the average gamer.. I never put trust in what companies put out for public viewing, or what people on youtube put out.. We don't know their hardware or ISP speeds when making their video and settings..
Lol okay, guess it is a conspiracy. Damn those guys with their $10k machines claiming they are regular PCs, shame on them! Do you play many mmorpgs? I've never had a top tier PC and have never ran into serious issue in any game I played.
Naa honestly big raids were scrapped not because guilds and public couldn't unite, it was because of technology and lag issues when performing the dance.. When companies like Blizzard design a boss fight, it's done with optimal settings for the average player.. So the problem comes when the average player LAGS out at 20 or 30 people.. Anything beyond 30+ people the boss fight dance becomes impossible for the average player due to lag.. Blizzard had to make a decision to either keep the large raids and nerf the boss fights, or nerf the raid size.. We saw what direction they went..
Yet my "average" PC never had an issue with 40+ content PVE or PVP in WoW... While I believe I read a stat from Blizzard saying only 5% or something crazy low ever were able to finish Vanilla Raids. I'm assuming more then 5% of players have "average" machines.
Rally Calls are not large scales events like a raid or anything, they are more like living stories we see in GW2.. or like the events Blizzard did with "Sunwell" or Lich King..
Proof?
That has yet to be seen.. One simple fact is that there is LESS game play in Landmark now , then before.. Landmark is quickly losing interest in many within a year. This is NOT a good thing.. FYI
We'll see what adding mobs, pathing, AI, and other systems beyond building will do? Many people also don't want to waste time and be wiped. Go to Reddit or official forums, many fans saying exactly this. They are just hanging out waiting for Landmark to become an actual game beyond digging and building to be wiped.
You seem to have tunnel focus on what a tank is.. aka (MEAT SHIELD).. Taunting was highly overused by devs, and should not be discarded because of it.. I like to think tanking as "AGRO" management.. Which I think most gamers today are clueless to understand..
Which any class can do if proper tools and management. I don't see EQN lacking this just because. Only thing they seem to lack is taunt itself. We really don't know how agro/threat/hate will work yet. Storybricks is supposed to work some how and not do the silly ping pong effect.
And what you describe is bad dev design.. Devs today put too much emphasis on "taunt" and "heal" and even I agree that is brainless whack a mole as well.. It's why I haven't played WoW in years.. Roles and classes have been homogenized so much, in the name of PvP balance, that PvE game play has become routine and boring.. IMO
Well they have to start somewhere. EQ was fairly whack a mole even early on. The UI and skill numbers weren't so crazy yet, but it wasn't very complicated either. Coming from MUDs and console RPGs, I didn't find EQ's combat to be too difficult. The pace was almost turned based at times.
Just wait and see how significant a PET is in combat compared to what they were in other games.. I seriously doubt EQN will allow pets that can cause serious damage and NEVER miss.. It would be too over powering against players that have to "aim" and hit their targets.. I'm sure that EQN pet dps will be significantly reduce so that pets aren't more powerful then players themselves.. Cause we know that TERA pets (Thralls) are a joke..
Unless the pet is supposed to be the player (like DAoC Necro), I hope they can't fill in for another player. We will have to wait and see on a lot of things, but I've yet to see any reason why pets won't work fine in EQN. This idea that they can't ever miss seems to assume that aiming will be the only way to attack. How do mobs attack us? They have AI aiming that has to lock on to us? I'm assuming they have a system that accounts for everything and we won't see non-missing pets/mobs.
Originally posted by Thebeasttt i was semi excited about EQN until i tried the combat. Why they would copy Neverwinter is beyond me but I died a little inside.
It's funny, because the combat is like Neverwinter/Tera I am more excited for this mmo. If it was another ZZ...z.z..z.z tab target mmo. I think I would pass without even trying. This is supposed to be the next gen mmo that everyone wants. Having a tab target combat system would be like buying a 2015 Lexus with a 1983 Toyota motor put in.
Allein.. that last part about Item A, B and C is ALL PURE speculation and guesswork on your part.. This is how hype works and leads to disappointment.. Here is another reason why I dislike shooter combat in a PvE world.. Listen up please and get your calculator out..
Combat in any game is based on two things.. 1) "to hit" probability and 2) "reaction" time in hitting spells and skills at the right time.. Traditional games that use auto targeting remove the #1 option.. Everyone has the same accuracy, so when devs have to program a fight, they only have to worry about the second part of button mashing, which accounts for average DPS..
Here comes the math.. Ready? When a poor player can only button mash 200dps due to slow reaction (#2) time, while a good player can button mash 400 dps, the devs know the variance between poor and good is 200.. Now add in shooter combat of hits and misses.. Poor player now can only do 100dps, where as the good player is still doing close to 400.. That variance grows and makes it difficult devs to design battles without alienating the poor the players, without making it too easy that good players become bored..
Shooter combat works OK in a PvP world but has NO BUSINESS in a PvE world.. It's a very divisive mechanic that turns games away from being community builders..
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. I'm not trying to flame you. But, my personal experience is that usually people only say things like this when they prefer tab target combat or are just really bad at any action combat mmo.
When you read a fantasy novel you will not see anything in an MMORPG, including EQN, that will come close to the descriptions if the book is well written.
Totally agree, just seems to be a view that mmorpgs or rpgs in general have to function under some unwritten rules. Which isn't the case. Removing or adding X doesn't cause the entire system to collapse.
Slower tab combat might be someone's ideal mmorpg combat, doesn't mean everyone shares that view, and obviously devs/companies do no either. As with anything, time moves on and things change. I loved MUDs, just as I enjoyed EQ/WoW and a long list of other games. I'm ready to move forward.
Whatever the normal time to kill is, when you get a spike you die ultra quick compared to the normal rate. If it's PvP the rate will probably be faster. Landmark runs like hell on a decent machine, so there is a lot of work to do in that department. Regardless, the issue of latency will almost certainly be more of a problem in EQN than a game where you pick from 50+ buttons.
Until proven, we'll just have to wait and see. EQN might melt my PC when I try to play it, no clue yet.
So I imagine your last line is meant to imply that the forums should be devoid of dissenting opinions. I might not champion the game, but I can still talk about it.
We are all free to do what we wish (for the most part). Just confused as to why some of you that clearly do not like EQN for what it is, continue to go on and on about it. Your opinions/views/complaints/issues have zero impact on the game's future. It's one thing to be a fan and have a critical view, it is another to totally dislike something from the ground up.
If I went into the WoW forum and started going on and on about how I don't like XYZ and don't want to ever play the game, I wouldn't be shocked if people didn't find it constructive. It just doesn't make a lot of sense beyond having an ax to grind and boredom I guess
So a thread titled "Combat System" is somehow the territory of the pro-EQNext crowd? Also I am criticizing the game, you seem to be criticizing me and those who agree with me. It should be enough to counter the argument without the admonishment of why someone would have a negative opinion on a topic.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
one thing they have to get right is viscerality/impact...hardly any mmo does this...i guess its difficult - but i think one of the major aspects of combat that feels good
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
I agree. Has there ever been a radical change like that that anyone remembers? I sure don't. The combat will assuredly be 90% what we see in Landmark but with more buttons. EQNext combat is about moving as fast as you can while flashing like a strobe and using world object spells.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
I agree. Has there ever been a radical change like that that anyone remembers? I sure don't. The combat will assuredly be 90% what we see in Landmark but with more buttons. EQNext combat is about moving as fast as you can while flashing like a strobe and using world object spells.
Based on what? Unless you are working on the game you have no idea, anymore than the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for something "new." EQN could be horrible in the end but I'd rather be excited now because worst case scenario I go "meh, oh well." It's a better use of my time than wallowing in negativity about something I have no control over.
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
If the combat is as good as NWO I would be pretty happy. It still has a long way to get as polished and exciting as NWO combat, but I see the potential for it to be even better with more interaction between class skills and more flexible builds.
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
I agree. Has there ever been a radical change like that that anyone remembers? I sure don't. The combat will assuredly be 90% what we see in Landmark but with more buttons. EQNext combat is about moving as fast as you can while flashing like a strobe and using world object spells.
Based on what? Unless you are working on the game you have no idea, anymore than the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for something "new." EQN could be horrible in the end but I'd rather be excited now because worst case scenario I go "meh, oh well." It's a better use of my time than wallowing in negativity about something I have no control over.
The 90% remark is based just on my guess about what possible tweaking will take place. I'm thinking small changes are possible, but nothing big enough that you could call it a huge change. I'm just typing and conversing man, I'm comfortably sitting here watching tv, there is no wallowing going on. If the game comes out and is kick ass I will be happy that I was wrong, but in the mean time I'm not going to get all unhinged nor dreamy eyed.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
If the combat is as good as NWO I would be pretty happy. It still has a long way to get as polished and exciting as NWO combat, but I see the potential for it to be even better with more interaction between class skills and more flexible builds.
I think the chances are good you will like EQNext if you liked NWO combat. I stopped playing NWO mainly because of that combat though, so for me its almost sure to be a showstopper. It looks like a closer, cartoony NWO in a lot of ways to me.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
If the combat is as good as NWO I would be pretty happy. It still has a long way to get as polished and exciting as NWO combat, but I see the potential for it to be even better with more interaction between class skills and more flexible builds.
I think the chances are good you will like EQNext if you liked NWO combat. I stopped playing NWO mainly because of that combat though, so for me its almost sure to be a showstopper. It looks like a closer, cartoony NWO in a lot of ways to me.
Well I hope its going to be good, atm it is nothing like NWO combat in my opinion. I mean it is action-combat, but doesn't have any of the impact/polish/weight or excitement of NWO (or other games with a good action combat system) combat. I can see the potential, but will have to wait for further development to make a call on whether it is good or bad.
There is quite a lot of variation in how that style of combat is pulled off. All the games with "action-combat" have quite a different feel. For me the best such system was in dragons dogma- have you ever played that? It has a nice balance between weighted attacks and fluid movement, Capcom really are masters of making great combat systems like that. And that is my main worry. It is no easy feat to make a great combat system, let alone make it work online with all the additional issues that brings. Has SOE developed any other action-combat based games?
Of course it is going to be an action combat system they are not changing that now and the first tiny hint we will get of it is when PVE launches in Landmark this week. It will be limited # of skills in EQN they have confirmed that. But my guess is that they will have to tone down the speed in combat to better fit the market, in fact the speed of LM PvP movement have been reduced once already. Georgeson have also said several times that there will be classes for people who are not action game players.
We will see as many LM players are not used to action combat and how it works in a large scale test will be interesting.
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
I agree. Has there ever been a radical change like that that anyone remembers? I sure don't. The combat will assuredly be 90% what we see in Landmark but with more buttons. EQNext combat is about moving as fast as you can while flashing like a strobe and using world object spells.
Based on what? Unless you are working on the game you have no idea, anymore than the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for something "new." EQN could be horrible in the end but I'd rather be excited now because worst case scenario I go "meh, oh well." It's a better use of my time than wallowing in negativity about something I have no control over.
The 90% remark is based just on my guess about what possible tweaking will take place. I'm thinking small changes are possible, but nothing big enough that you could call it a huge change. I'm just typing and conversing man, I'm comfortably sitting here watching tv, there is no wallowing going on. If the game comes out and is kick ass I will be happy that I was wrong, but in the mean time I'm not going to get all unhinged nor dreamy eyed.
I may have misunderstood you. If you meant the targeting specifically is 90% there I would agree. Other than a "smart" highlight system that makes ability hitting easier I think what is seen in Landmark is going to be in EQN.
All of the other aspects, such as combat speed, "weight", and variations of abilities will be much different. Just looking at the combat videos from SoELive '13 and '14 show that. Along with this will be the implementation of "labeling", ability sources and categories. They say there will be 40 classes at launch. Assuming that's true that is 320 primary abilities and 160 secondary abilities on top of any effects from gear. At the moment in Landmark there are 12 abilities and, I think, two gear abilities (glide and double jump).
I think Landmark will always have a more simplified version of combat than EQN, just because there won't be the same number of classes or abilities. That said, SoE wanted to effectively test the basics of their combat programming which is why Landmark is what it is at the moment.
So a thread titled "Combat System" is somehow the territory of the pro-EQNext crowd? Also I am criticizing the game, you seem to be criticizing me and those who agree with me. It should be enough to counter the argument without the admonishment of why someone would have a negative opinion on a topic.
Not at all, like I said, I don't really care nor wish to stop anyway from posting anything, just seems like a waste to me. Guess I'm just being Captain Obvious.
This is the EQN forum, not a general gaming forum, so I'd imagine people reading/posting here have some interest in the game. If not, why be here?
Again, would be like me randomly posting in any other game's forum about how I don't like it or some part of it just for the heck of it. Doesn't seem very constructive. "I hate tab targeting, Blizzard should so change that, I don't plan to play the game, but they should change it anyway."
As this is the EQN forum and as I am a fan of the up and coming game, I feel it is a bit disrespectful to come in and basically say it is garbage, implying those that like it, like garbage. No one is forcing anyone to love/hate or pay any attention to it.
This isn't a you vs me situation. It is you hating on what SOE is doing with no real end in sight. You don't like it, awesome. Why waste time on it? Again, I don't waste my time on other games I played or not, especially if I have no interest or really dislike what they are. Makes no sense. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about all of them, just don't have the need to share it.
If you have real interest in the game, but don't like the design or where it is heading, contact the devs, be productive. If you are here to just bad mouth a product that some might actually want/like, seems pretty pointless.
Several of those against what they are doing don't even offer real solutions or alternatives. It's just "That sucks, I don't like that, fail, stupid, child's game, cartoon, yadda yadda." Again, we all have opinions and are free to share them, but I guess I'm just looking for a point. My reason for posting/reading threads here is I'm interested in the game and want to have constructive conversations about what we've seen and what could be possible. Doom and Gloom doesn't really add much to that conversation. It is very easy to say "That won't work" take very little effort or thought. Almost like it adds little to nothing.
So a thread titled "Combat System" is somehow the territory of the pro-EQNext crowd? Also I am criticizing the game, you seem to be criticizing me and those who agree with me. It should be enough to counter the argument without the admonishment of why someone would have a negative opinion on a topic.
Not at all, like I said, I don't really care nor wish to stop anyway from posting anything, just seems like a waste to me. Guess I'm just being Captain Obvious.
This is the EQN forum, not a general gaming forum, so I'd imagine people reading/posting here have some interest in the game. If not, why be here?
Again, would be like me randomly posting in any other game's forum about how I don't like it or some part of it just for the heck of it. Doesn't seem very constructive. "I hate tab targeting, Blizzard should so change that, I don't plan to play the game, but they should change it anyway."
As this is the EQN forum and as I am a fan of the up and coming game, I feel it is a bit disrespectful to come in and basically say it is garbage, implying those that like it, like garbage. No one is forcing anyone to love/hate or pay any attention to it.
This isn't a you vs me situation. It is you hating on what SOE is doing with no real end in sight. You don't like it, awesome. Why waste time on it? Again, I don't waste my time on other games I played or not, especially if I have no interest or really dislike what they are. Makes no sense. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about all of them, just don't have the need to share it.
If you have real interest in the game, but don't like the design or where it is heading, contact the devs, be productive. If you are here to just bad mouth a product that some might actually want/like, seems pretty pointless.
Several of those against what they are doing don't even offer real solutions or alternatives. It's just "That sucks, I don't like that, fail, stupid, child's game, cartoon, yadda yadda." Again, we all have opinions and are free to share them, but I guess I'm just looking for a point. My reason for posting/reading threads here is I'm interested in the game and want to have constructive conversations about what we've seen and what could be possible. Doom and Gloom doesn't really add much to that conversation. It is very easy to say "That won't work" take very little effort or thought. Almost like it adds little to nothing.
Nothing that we do here is constructive. The Forum says EQNext, not EQNext positivity forum. I have an interest in talking about a game that I was very interested in playing, and even spent the money to go to SOE Live to see introduced. I suspect that you simply find it uncomfortable to be faced with a dissenting opinion, and I say that with no animosity. It harshes your mellow, or whatever.
You will continue to see posts from a lot of people who are not on the positive side. I'm sorry but you have no better claim to post here than someone who doesn't like the game per se. If the thread was "Post your EQNext Love here," then I think someone might be just being provocative to post there (which I have done in the past, and may do in the future if I have been drinking).
Some will be doing the inverse of expressing interest, others will be venting as they know there is no reason to talk to SOE: you might as well address the wind.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by DMKano Expect lots of changes and tuning - the current iteration is pretty weak IMO, but it is like combat prototype. But no updates to combat at this time.
The problem is a game needs to be well thought before design even begins.If we believe they have a large active team working on this,they would have already designed mobs and the entire game around that combat system.Point being you cant simply make changes without having to go back and rethink the game and its combat design now.
Personally i have no problems with cool downs but they need to be combined with solid skills and abillities,.A perfect example of BAD game design is when i see meaningless CDs like everything on a hotbar is a 0.5-3 second cool down,that is a weak effort on game design.
A good well though out design has a large array of delays,also allowing for spike damage and powerful abilities to make it fun for players.I could think of a million ideas utilizing long delays ,the simple 0.5-3 delay means you will get nothing powerful,nothing fun.
I personally never liked the way SOE did EQ or EQ2 combat it felt very restricted and generic,thats why several classes felt the same.I fear this because i do not see SOE changing their thought process even though this design is similar to FFXIV.As seen by MANY posts,not many like FFXIV combat,i know i dont and i wanted to like ffxiv so badly.
I dont like any idea that revolves around a stat that restricts an entire design,such as Potency or anything similar.It was far better when SOE was using multiple stats for EVERY class,then they decided it was EASIER for them to remove them and go with a stat that can MISLEAD players.That si when you see dumb stuff like +200 or +50 and yet it seems to do absolutely nothing to change the combat,which is why i said mislead the players into thinking they have this great gear seis
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So a thread titled "Combat System" is somehow the territory of the pro-EQNext crowd? Also I am criticizing the game, you seem to be criticizing me and those who agree with me. It should be enough to counter the argument without the admonishment of why someone would have a negative opinion on a topic.
Not at all, like I said, I don't really care nor wish to stop anyway from posting anything, just seems like a waste to me. Guess I'm just being Captain Obvious.
This is the EQN forum, not a general gaming forum, so I'd imagine people reading/posting here have some interest in the game. If not, why be here?
Again, would be like me randomly posting in any other game's forum about how I don't like it or some part of it just for the heck of it. Doesn't seem very constructive. "I hate tab targeting, Blizzard should so change that, I don't plan to play the game, but they should change it anyway."
As this is the EQN forum and as I am a fan of the up and coming game, I feel it is a bit disrespectful to come in and basically say it is garbage, implying those that like it, like garbage. No one is forcing anyone to love/hate or pay any attention to it.
This isn't a you vs me situation. It is you hating on what SOE is doing with no real end in sight. You don't like it, awesome. Why waste time on it? Again, I don't waste my time on other games I played or not, especially if I have no interest or really dislike what they are. Makes no sense. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about all of them, just don't have the need to share it.
If you have real interest in the game, but don't like the design or where it is heading, contact the devs, be productive. If you are here to just bad mouth a product that some might actually want/like, seems pretty pointless.
Several of those against what they are doing don't even offer real solutions or alternatives. It's just "That sucks, I don't like that, fail, stupid, child's game, cartoon, yadda yadda." Again, we all have opinions and are free to share them, but I guess I'm just looking for a point. My reason for posting/reading threads here is I'm interested in the game and want to have constructive conversations about what we've seen and what could be possible. Doom and Gloom doesn't really add much to that conversation. It is very easy to say "That won't work" take very little effort or thought. Almost like it adds little to nothing.
Nothing that we do here is constructive. The Forum says EQNext, not EQNext positivity forum. I have an interest in talking about a game that I was very interested in playing, and even spent the money to go to SOE Live to see introduced. I suspect that you simply find it uncomfortable to be faced with a dissenting opinion, and I say that with no animosity. It harshes your mellow, or whatever.
You will continue to see posts from a lot of people who are not on the positive side. I'm sorry but you have no better claim to post here than someone who doesn't like the game per se. If the thread was "Post your EQNext Love here," then I think someone might be just being provocative to post there (which I have done in the past, and may do in the future if I have been drinking).
Some will be doing the inverse of expressing interest, others will be venting as they know there is no reason to talk to SOE: you might as well address the wind.
I've played EQ and EQ2, in varying degrees, since 2000. I used to be a strong supporter, but given how SOE has devolved their gaming experience since Dave Georgeson took command, I can't say that is my position any longer. In my opinion, EQN is just using the franchise name (like Landmark before they finally renamed it) and SOE is not marketing to their fan base at all. People wanted EQ3, and they're dishing up FreeRealmsNext.
So, I agree with you. it's very important to be critical. Keeping your SOE knee pads carefully polished, like some people on this forum, is tantamount to burying your head in the sand.
Nothing that we do here is constructive. The Forum says EQNext, not EQNext positivity forum. I have an interest in talking about a game that I was very interested in playing, and even spent the money to go to SOE Live to see introduced. I suspect that you simply find it uncomfortable to be faced with a dissenting opinion, and I say that with no animosity. It harshes your mellow, or whatever.
You will continue to see posts from a lot of people who are not on the positive side. I'm sorry but you have no better claim to post here than someone who doesn't like the game per se. If the thread was "Post your EQNext Love here," then I think someone might be just being provocative to post there (which I have done in the past, and may do in the future if I have been drinking).
Some will be doing the inverse of expressing interest, others will be venting as they know there is no reason to talk to SOE: you might as well address the wind.
All's good with me. I do spend more time on Reddit as it is a bit more constructive with ideas and what not being tossed around, even if they aren't really leading to anything. I've visited this site many times over the years, but not until EQN, did I feel like making an account and posting as it is a long ways off. Just so many full of negativity that will never be pleased.
I'm not uncomfortable at all with people having differing opinions of myself or SOE. I simply am curious what the point is. If it is simply to "address the wind," have at it. Never been big on the whole online venting/complaining deal. If I don't like something, I move on and don't look back.
If you have the time and need to talk down to what SOE is doing and in turn, those that like it, so be it. Sucks you didn't get the game you wanted, but over the last ~20 years or so of my online gaming, happened more times then not. Just how it is.
I've played EQ and EQ2, in varying degrees, since 2000. I used to be a strong supporter, but given how SOE has devolved their gaming experience since Dave Georgeson took command, I can't say that is my position any longer. In my opinion, EQN is just using the franchise name (like Landmark before they finally renamed it) and SOE is not marketing to their fan base at all. People wanted EQ3, and they're dishing up FreeRealmsNext.
So, I agree with you. it's very important to be critical. Keeping your SOE knee pads carefully polished, like some people on this forum, is tantamount to burying your head in the sand.
Some people wanted EQ3, but they aren't the majority. EQ fans are not a large group. I enjoyed EQ, didn't like EQ2, and am looking forward to EQN. We don't always get what we want, when we want it.
Not sure who has the SOE knee pads on, it seems even those of us that actually like what has been shown, aren't blind fanbois without any clue of SOE's past or present history in the market.
Don't like it? Sucks for you I guess. Has nothing to do with knee pads or heads in the sand. If EQN turns out poorly (for me), oh well, I'll survive. If it turns out well (for me), I have a game to play.
Those longing for EQ3 are out of luck. As it seems many that have been around enough to have played EQ/EQ2, have lost a lot of faith in SOE as it is, not sure how EQ3 would of been the answer. 15 years of "mistakes" would just be washed away and the perfect game would appear? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Games, market, and gamers have all moved on, some seem to refuse to accept it. EQN is a game of the future, for better or worse. I'm hoping it's for the better, but only time will tell.
Allein.. that last part about Item A, B and C is ALL PURE speculation and guesswork on your part.. This is how hype works and leads to disappointment.. Here is another reason why I dislike shooter combat in a PvE world.. Listen up please and get your calculator out..
Combat in any game is based on two things.. 1) "to hit" probability and 2) "reaction" time in hitting spells and skills at the right time.. Traditional games that use auto targeting remove the #1 option.. Everyone has the same accuracy, so when devs have to program a fight, they only have to worry about the second part of button mashing, which accounts for average DPS..
Here comes the math.. Ready? When a poor player can only button mash 200dps due to slow reaction (#2) time, while a good player can button mash 400 dps, the devs know the variance between poor and good is 200.. Now add in shooter combat of hits and misses.. Poor player now can only do 100dps, where as the good player is still doing close to 400.. That variance grows and makes it difficult devs to design battles without alienating the poor the players, without making it too easy that good players become bored..
Shooter combat works OK in a PvP world but has NO BUSINESS in a PvE world.. It's a very divisive mechanic that turns games away from being community builders..
Action-type combat is totally different from "shooter" combat and has been in pve based games for a long long time. This lame-arse tab targeting crap some of you seem to love is mainly the stuff of mmos (especially older ones), and combat was probably structured that way to get around issues of lag/internet speeds that are not such a big issue these days.
Everyone has different tastes. I find action combat as distasteful as you find tab target / auto attack. I'm more interested in RPGing in an RPG game, what I don't get is why gamers like you would rather change the RPG genre than to just go play a FPS or RTS or AAG where stats and thoughtful strategy no longer cramp your style. Thanks to consoles and some nebulous vocal player base, every RPG, both single player and MMO have started to cater to action junkies and left nothing for the rest of us who were here from the very beginning.
I've played EQ and EQ2, in varying degrees, since 2000. I used to be a strong supporter, but given how SOE has devolved their gaming experience since Dave Georgeson took command, I can't say that is my position any longer. In my opinion, EQN is just using the franchise name (like Landmark before they finally renamed it) and SOE is not marketing to their fan base at all. People wanted EQ3, and they're dishing up FreeRealmsNext.
So, I agree with you. it's very important to be critical. Keeping your SOE knee pads carefully polished, like some people on this forum, is tantamount to burying your head in the sand.
Some people wanted EQ3, but they aren't the majority. EQ fans are not a large group. I enjoyed EQ, didn't like EQ2, and am looking forward to EQN. We don't always get what we want, when we want it.
Not sure who has the SOE knee pads on, it seems even those of us that actually like what has been shown, aren't blind fanbois without any clue of SOE's past or present history in the market.
Don't like it? Sucks for you I guess. Has nothing to do with knee pads or heads in the sand. If EQN turns out poorly (for me), oh well, I'll survive. If it turns out well (for me), I have a game to play.
Those longing for EQ3 are out of luck. As it seems many that have been around enough to have played EQ/EQ2, have lost a lot of faith in SOE as it is, not sure how EQ3 would of been the answer. 15 years of "mistakes" would just be washed away and the perfect game would appear? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Games, market, and gamers have all moved on, some seem to refuse to accept it. EQN is a game of the future, for better or worse. I'm hoping it's for the better, but only time will tell.
Why should every single MMO that comes out be designed for the majority? Why not design several niche games that net you a larger market share over-all? I seriously doubt that homogenized video gaming is the future that MMOs should embrace, let alone be embraced by the majority of gamers.
Some people wanted EQ3, but they aren't the majority.
EQ fans are not a large group.
I enjoyed EQ, didn't like EQ2, and am looking forward to EQN. We don't always get what we want, when we want it.
Those longing for EQ3 are out of luck. As it seems many that have been around enough to have played EQ/EQ2, have lost a lot of faith in SOE as it is, not sure how EQ3 would of been the answer. 15 years of "mistakes" would just be washed away and the perfect game would appear? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Games, market, and gamers have all moved on, some seem to refuse to accept it. EQN is a game of the future, for better or worse. I'm hoping it's for the better, but only time will tell.
So why call it "Everquest" anything?
Everquest fans were looking for EQ3, and yes they are out of luck. This new game (if it ever sees the light of day) is not EQ3 but nor is it Everquest anything.
If this monstrosity is "a game of the future" then it is a future in which I will not be playing games. So I hope that is not the case.
Comments
It's funny, because the combat is like Neverwinter/Tera I am more excited for this mmo. If it was another ZZ...z.z..z.z tab target mmo. I think I would pass without even trying. This is supposed to be the next gen mmo that everyone wants. Having a tab target combat system would be like buying a 2015 Lexus with a 1983 Toyota motor put in.
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. I'm not trying to flame you. But, my personal experience is that usually people only say things like this when they prefer tab target combat or are just really bad at any action combat mmo.
So a thread titled "Combat System" is somehow the territory of the pro-EQNext crowd? Also I am criticizing the game, you seem to be criticizing me and those who agree with me. It should be enough to counter the argument without the admonishment of why someone would have a negative opinion on a topic.
My interest has never died so fast as it did with EQN releasing it's combat system. It seriously looked like they were using Neverwinter Online as a guide....
Alot of wishful thinkers in here think it will be totally revamped into something that isn't terrible but I doubt we'll be that lucky. The fanboi's will likely fill their ears with praises as they unknowingly drive the game off a cliff.
I agree. Has there ever been a radical change like that that anyone remembers? I sure don't. The combat will assuredly be 90% what we see in Landmark but with more buttons. EQNext combat is about moving as fast as you can while flashing like a strobe and using world object spells.
Based on what? Unless you are working on the game you have no idea, anymore than the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for something "new." EQN could be horrible in the end but I'd rather be excited now because worst case scenario I go "meh, oh well." It's a better use of my time than wallowing in negativity about something I have no control over.
If the combat is as good as NWO I would be pretty happy. It still has a long way to get as polished and exciting as NWO combat, but I see the potential for it to be even better with more interaction between class skills and more flexible builds.
The 90% remark is based just on my guess about what possible tweaking will take place. I'm thinking small changes are possible, but nothing big enough that you could call it a huge change. I'm just typing and conversing man, I'm comfortably sitting here watching tv, there is no wallowing going on. If the game comes out and is kick ass I will be happy that I was wrong, but in the mean time I'm not going to get all unhinged nor dreamy eyed.
I think the chances are good you will like EQNext if you liked NWO combat. I stopped playing NWO mainly because of that combat though, so for me its almost sure to be a showstopper. It looks like a closer, cartoony NWO in a lot of ways to me.
Well I hope its going to be good, atm it is nothing like NWO combat in my opinion. I mean it is action-combat, but doesn't have any of the impact/polish/weight or excitement of NWO (or other games with a good action combat system) combat. I can see the potential, but will have to wait for further development to make a call on whether it is good or bad.
There is quite a lot of variation in how that style of combat is pulled off. All the games with "action-combat" have quite a different feel. For me the best such system was in dragons dogma- have you ever played that? It has a nice balance between weighted attacks and fluid movement, Capcom really are masters of making great combat systems like that. And that is my main worry. It is no easy feat to make a great combat system, let alone make it work online with all the additional issues that brings. Has SOE developed any other action-combat based games?
Of course it is going to be an action combat system they are not changing that now and the first tiny hint we will get of it is when PVE launches in Landmark this week. It will be limited # of skills in EQN they have confirmed that. But my guess is that they will have to tone down the speed in combat to better fit the market, in fact the speed of LM PvP movement have been reduced once already. Georgeson have also said several times that there will be classes for people who are not action game players.
We will see as many LM players are not used to action combat and how it works in a large scale test will be interesting.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I may have misunderstood you. If you meant the targeting specifically is 90% there I would agree. Other than a "smart" highlight system that makes ability hitting easier I think what is seen in Landmark is going to be in EQN.
All of the other aspects, such as combat speed, "weight", and variations of abilities will be much different. Just looking at the combat videos from SoELive '13 and '14 show that. Along with this will be the implementation of "labeling", ability sources and categories. They say there will be 40 classes at launch. Assuming that's true that is 320 primary abilities and 160 secondary abilities on top of any effects from gear. At the moment in Landmark there are 12 abilities and, I think, two gear abilities (glide and double jump).
I think Landmark will always have a more simplified version of combat than EQN, just because there won't be the same number of classes or abilities. That said, SoE wanted to effectively test the basics of their combat programming which is why Landmark is what it is at the moment.
Not at all, like I said, I don't really care nor wish to stop anyway from posting anything, just seems like a waste to me. Guess I'm just being Captain Obvious.
This is the EQN forum, not a general gaming forum, so I'd imagine people reading/posting here have some interest in the game. If not, why be here?
Again, would be like me randomly posting in any other game's forum about how I don't like it or some part of it just for the heck of it. Doesn't seem very constructive. "I hate tab targeting, Blizzard should so change that, I don't plan to play the game, but they should change it anyway."
As this is the EQN forum and as I am a fan of the up and coming game, I feel it is a bit disrespectful to come in and basically say it is garbage, implying those that like it, like garbage. No one is forcing anyone to love/hate or pay any attention to it.
This isn't a you vs me situation. It is you hating on what SOE is doing with no real end in sight. You don't like it, awesome. Why waste time on it? Again, I don't waste my time on other games I played or not, especially if I have no interest or really dislike what they are. Makes no sense. Doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about all of them, just don't have the need to share it.
If you have real interest in the game, but don't like the design or where it is heading, contact the devs, be productive. If you are here to just bad mouth a product that some might actually want/like, seems pretty pointless.
Several of those against what they are doing don't even offer real solutions or alternatives. It's just "That sucks, I don't like that, fail, stupid, child's game, cartoon, yadda yadda." Again, we all have opinions and are free to share them, but I guess I'm just looking for a point. My reason for posting/reading threads here is I'm interested in the game and want to have constructive conversations about what we've seen and what could be possible. Doom and Gloom doesn't really add much to that conversation. It is very easy to say "That won't work" take very little effort or thought. Almost like it adds little to nothing.
Nothing that we do here is constructive. The Forum says EQNext, not EQNext positivity forum. I have an interest in talking about a game that I was very interested in playing, and even spent the money to go to SOE Live to see introduced. I suspect that you simply find it uncomfortable to be faced with a dissenting opinion, and I say that with no animosity. It harshes your mellow, or whatever.
You will continue to see posts from a lot of people who are not on the positive side. I'm sorry but you have no better claim to post here than someone who doesn't like the game per se. If the thread was "Post your EQNext Love here," then I think someone might be just being provocative to post there (which I have done in the past, and may do in the future if I have been drinking).
Some will be doing the inverse of expressing interest, others will be venting as they know there is no reason to talk to SOE: you might as well address the wind.
The problem is a game needs to be well thought before design even begins.If we believe they have a large active team working on this,they would have already designed mobs and the entire game around that combat system.Point being you cant simply make changes without having to go back and rethink the game and its combat design now.
Personally i have no problems with cool downs but they need to be combined with solid skills and abillities,.A perfect example of BAD game design is when i see meaningless CDs like everything on a hotbar is a 0.5-3 second cool down,that is a weak effort on game design.
A good well though out design has a large array of delays,also allowing for spike damage and powerful abilities to make it fun for players.I could think of a million ideas utilizing long delays ,the simple 0.5-3 delay means you will get nothing powerful,nothing fun.
I personally never liked the way SOE did EQ or EQ2 combat it felt very restricted and generic,thats why several classes felt the same.I fear this because i do not see SOE changing their thought process even though this design is similar to FFXIV.As seen by MANY posts,not many like FFXIV combat,i know i dont and i wanted to like ffxiv so badly.
I dont like any idea that revolves around a stat that restricts an entire design,such as Potency or anything similar.It was far better when SOE was using multiple stats for EVERY class,then they decided it was EASIER for them to remove them and go with a stat that can MISLEAD players.That si when you see dumb stuff like +200 or +50 and yet it seems to do absolutely nothing to change the combat,which is why i said mislead the players into thinking they have this great gear seis
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I've played EQ and EQ2, in varying degrees, since 2000. I used to be a strong supporter, but given how SOE has devolved their gaming experience since Dave Georgeson took command, I can't say that is my position any longer. In my opinion, EQN is just using the franchise name (like Landmark before they finally renamed it) and SOE is not marketing to their fan base at all. People wanted EQ3, and they're dishing up FreeRealmsNext.
So, I agree with you. it's very important to be critical. Keeping your SOE knee pads carefully polished, like some people on this forum, is tantamount to burying your head in the sand.
All's good with me. I do spend more time on Reddit as it is a bit more constructive with ideas and what not being tossed around, even if they aren't really leading to anything. I've visited this site many times over the years, but not until EQN, did I feel like making an account and posting as it is a long ways off. Just so many full of negativity that will never be pleased.
I'm not uncomfortable at all with people having differing opinions of myself or SOE. I simply am curious what the point is. If it is simply to "address the wind," have at it. Never been big on the whole online venting/complaining deal. If I don't like something, I move on and don't look back.
If you have the time and need to talk down to what SOE is doing and in turn, those that like it, so be it. Sucks you didn't get the game you wanted, but over the last ~20 years or so of my online gaming, happened more times then not. Just how it is.
Some people wanted EQ3, but they aren't the majority. EQ fans are not a large group. I enjoyed EQ, didn't like EQ2, and am looking forward to EQN. We don't always get what we want, when we want it.
Not sure who has the SOE knee pads on, it seems even those of us that actually like what has been shown, aren't blind fanbois without any clue of SOE's past or present history in the market.
Don't like it? Sucks for you I guess. Has nothing to do with knee pads or heads in the sand. If EQN turns out poorly (for me), oh well, I'll survive. If it turns out well (for me), I have a game to play.
Those longing for EQ3 are out of luck. As it seems many that have been around enough to have played EQ/EQ2, have lost a lot of faith in SOE as it is, not sure how EQ3 would of been the answer. 15 years of "mistakes" would just be washed away and the perfect game would appear? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Games, market, and gamers have all moved on, some seem to refuse to accept it. EQN is a game of the future, for better or worse. I'm hoping it's for the better, but only time will tell.
Everyone has different tastes. I find action combat as distasteful as you find tab target / auto attack. I'm more interested in RPGing in an RPG game, what I don't get is why gamers like you would rather change the RPG genre than to just go play a FPS or RTS or AAG where stats and thoughtful strategy no longer cramp your style. Thanks to consoles and some nebulous vocal player base, every RPG, both single player and MMO have started to cater to action junkies and left nothing for the rest of us who were here from the very beginning.
Why should every single MMO that comes out be designed for the majority? Why not design several niche games that net you a larger market share over-all? I seriously doubt that homogenized video gaming is the future that MMOs should embrace, let alone be embraced by the majority of gamers.
So why call it "Everquest" anything?
Everquest fans were looking for EQ3, and yes they are out of luck. This new game (if it ever sees the light of day) is not EQ3 but nor is it Everquest anything.
If this monstrosity is "a game of the future" then it is a future in which I will not be playing games. So I hope that is not the case.