Also, R&D / development / pre-production doesn't make money. SOE's life depends on this lineup of games succeeding and with all the money already invested I don't see them pulling the plug before launch. If they launch EQN and it tanks because they couldn't deliver on promises I can see most of SOE being gutted but not before. They are in a very similar situation to square between FFXIV and FFXIV:ARR launch.
I disagree. I think EQ Next's fate will depend much on Landmark's and H1Z1's success. If SOE feels that both Landmark and H1Z1 have failed and they can't fix them, I think they won't release a third game using same engine.
H1Z1 is baed on the Planetside 2 engine.
EQN is based on a newly developed engine by SOE + Voxelfarm + Storybricks. Basicly Landmark is the development of EQN. They saw the potential of the new developers tools and turned these tools into a game ..... Everquest Next : Landmark. Then they realised "players" were building also stuff that wasn't related to the EQ Franchise, so they dropped the Everquest Next part of the title.
All of SOE's new lineup uses the same engine since it's compatible with the playstation 4. The idea is to cash in on Destiny's success at bringing "MMO's" (believe me i'm using the term VERY loosely here) to the console world.
@ Vrika
Think of EQLM and H1Z1 as low budget spinoffs of EQN. SOE realized the engine they had created for PS2 was capable of a lot of cool stuff so they decided to shotgun a couple of games out there that have a low development overhead (everything is being developed for EQN anyway) and see what sticks / make some money on the side. There is no way on God's green earth that they will cancel EQN before it sees the light of day. Everquest is SOE's flagship franchise, the only way it's getting dropped is out of their cold, dead hands.
Also, R&D / development / pre-production doesn't make money. SOE's life depends on this lineup of games succeeding and with all the money already invested I don't see them pulling the plug before launch. If they launch EQN and it tanks because they couldn't deliver on promises I can see most of SOE being gutted but not before. They are in a very similar situation to square between FFXIV and FFXIV:ARR launch.
I disagree. I think EQ Next's fate will depend much on Landmark's and H1Z1's success. If SOE feels that both Landmark and H1Z1 have failed and they can't fix them, I think they won't release a third game using same engine.
H1Z1 is baed on the Planetside 2 engine.
EQN is based on a newly developed engine by SOE + Voxelfarm + Storybricks. Basicly Landmark is the development of EQN. They saw the potential of the new developers tools and turned these tools into a game ..... Everquest Next : Landmark. Then they realised "players" were building also stuff that wasn't related to the EQ Franchise, so they dropped the Everquest Next part of the title.
EQN is also using the Planetside 2 engine (+Voxelfarm, Storybricks has nothing to do with the game engine).
you are right both started their journey with the Forgelight engine, but most people consider Forgelight + Voxelfarm a totally different engine than what PS2 is using,
I have seen the old sites where I used to go to when I played Everquest the original with a lot of negativity against EQ Next. I think the old Everquest players are heavily lobbying against this game and may be it will have no impact but I am still wondering if all this rumbling can be wholly ignored.
Well since they are marketing to another player base that is the console one and younger audience it will not matter but I am not too sure what the higher brass thinks of all this and if they do pull the plug what reason will be given. Personally I dislike the combat direction and secretly hoping it does fail so that I get my type of combat but that would be selfish since it would only ruin the genre and not good for it overall.
why siphon the crowds they have already in there other games there looking for a new market i would say and alot of complaits from the people from EQ1 and 2 is the art style which i dont see why that would turn people off to be honost, allthough i value gameplay over art/graphics i spose some people do it the other way round.
Originally posted by Aelious Yeah this same doom and gloom was posted back in March, the date of the article. Since then no major changes can be seen so no need to worry about things one can't change.
It would be unfortunate if SoE did dissolve. Take EQN/Landmark out of the picture and what is left in the way of forward thinking, fresh MMOs?
/crickets
What is forward thinking about EQnext?
The terrible graphics? Nickle and diming players to death through cash shop? Horrible action combat? The awful animations? Charging to play alpha/beta? Turning an original IP into something that does not in any way resemble the original IP?
I am just confused where the "forward thinking," comes in. Oh, I know. They call it Next, it must be forward thinking...
Voxel farm and Storybricks. Both could change how we MMO. Most of us are waiting to see if they pull it off.
Storybricks - AI that is supposed to move about the world with some sort of purpose, beyond being sacks of HP
Voxels - Allows for more visual impact on the world, unique abilities, new exploration
Exploration - Tiers, caves, dungeons of the world won't be typical static snoozefest
Procedurally Generated Content - World and Quests are supposed to be PG to some degree
Horizontal Progression - Along with the more open approach, players should be able choose what and how they want to play. Multi-classing, gear that isn't focused on power stacking, able to make unique builds.
Sure there is more, but I wouldn't call any of that typical of what we've come to see in this genre. Not all of it is unique and the genre as a whole seems to be moving toward a more "sandbox" like approach where players have a lot more choice in their gameplay.
The terrible graphics?
Subjective. Compared to what?
Nickle and diming players to death through cash shop?
No sign of this in Landmark, PS2, and even EQ/EQ2's F2P options have improved.
Horrible action combat?
Subjective. Compared to what?
The awful animations?
Subjective. Compared to what?
Charging to play alpha/beta?
Option A: Don't get access to "alpha" and beta access is total luck.
Option B: Can pay to play an unfinished product to support it and provide feedback or get in through luck.
Option X: Game will be F2P on launch, don't want to waste your cash or feel lucky, wait.
Not sure who's being mistreated in what they are doing. If you can't afford $20 or whatever for entertainment, probably shouldn't be on the internet complaining.
Turning an original IP into something that does not in any way resemble the original IP?
In what way? The Lore/history, items, names, NPCs, mobs, skills, places/world, etc will be in EQN in some form, heck even the theme song has some of the original in it.
EQ, EQ2, EQOA are not identical. EQN does deviate more but I'm doubting anyone will confuse EQN with Final Fantasy or Elder Scrolls if you removed the EQ from the title and they ran around the world. It is still Norrath, simply an alternate version.
Talking mechanics? Not much of EQ is unique in that department.
I am just confused where the "forward thinking," comes in. Oh, I know. They call it Next, it must be forward thinking...
Then I guess they are doing exactly what has been done before, but then I don't see why anyone would be complaining. It's just like everyone other game, including EQ, YAY!
Looking at the genre in general, hard to find many fantasy mmorpgs doing what SOE is trying. Might not succeed, but they are taking some pretty interesting risks.
Obviously some folks want the same old thing with a new coat of paint, but SOE decided to break away from the pack and do it different. They aren't reinventing the wheel, but enough is different to make many happy and many angry apparently.
I would not expect anything public (Alpha/Beta) until Fall 2016 or Spring 2017. However, it is likely that we will see footage of the game at trade shows and such.
my assumption is that since they are racking up production now, that every quarter or every few months they will start releasing some infos on new classes, combat, vids, some teaser stuff and an closed beta / alpha will happen at the end of this year...but i am not expecting an open beta/release before mid to end 2016.
What staff? I know of 2 people who left themselves. Both were not programmers, but a Community Manager and a Branch Manager. Dave is still there, he cut off his ponytail, so maybe you do not recognize him anymore?
Wasn't talking about the EQNext team, but SoE in general.
In 2014, SoE cost Sony a lot of money. Since Sony is restructuring, it's entirely possible, the studio at one point gets canned. They can't sustain those kind of losses for very long.
The reason EQNext seems to be taking ages to get anywhere, is probably because of SoE's dire financial status.
Atm SoE is a deadweight division, they aren't turning a profit and they had to can multiple MMO and scale back and can projects, Sony isn't going to put up with that for very long.
thats a good point...will they cann the game once they come to the conclusion mmo's are dead? will they cann it if h1z1 does not work and produce the cash flow they expect? maybe h1z1 was just a short kinda cash in program to get cash flow and they hope it will work (cause it is certainly not a very work intense game so far)?
Originally posted by Waterlily It's possible that it will never get released. $60 million dollar write off in 2014, many SoE staff fired and Sony losing patience, it's possible this game will never see the light of day. SoE's other game in development is H1Z1, and it's extremely low budget.
I kinda doubt that because SOE need to get in new revenues. EQN is more or less their last chanse to really turn around things.
If they would close down the game they would enter a death spiral nothing could get them out of. You can't live on old games forever since they slowly bleed players. SOE needs a new Everquest, something that changes the game for them and make them one of the leading companies again.
Of course EQN might fail but I think they at least will get as much out of it as they got of EQ2 and that would be enough to keep them in business the next 5 years.
Originally posted by Waterlily It's possible that it will never get released. $60 million dollar write off in 2014, many SoE staff fired and Sony losing patience, it's possible this game will never see the light of day. SoE's other game in development is H1Z1, and it's extremely low budget.
I kinda doubt that because SOE need to get in new revenues. EQN is more or less their last chanse to really turn around things.
If they would close down the game they would enter a death spiral nothing could get them out of. You can't live on old games forever since they slowly bleed players. SOE needs a new Everquest, something that changes the game for them and make them one of the leading companies again.
Of course EQN might fail but I think they at least will get as much out of it as they got of EQ2 and that would be enough to keep them in business the next 5 years.
I kind of doubt it too, but wow that would be an interesting development if EQNext tanked SOE.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by Waterlily It's possible that it will never get released. $60 million dollar write off in 2014, many SoE staff fired and Sony losing patience, it's possible this game will never see the light of day. SoE's other game in development is H1Z1, and it's extremely low budget.
I kinda doubt that because SOE need to get in new revenues. EQN is more or less their last chanse to really turn around things.
If they would close down the game they would enter a death spiral nothing could get them out of. You can't live on old games forever since they slowly bleed players. SOE needs a new Everquest, something that changes the game for them and make them one of the leading companies again.
Of course EQN might fail but I think they at least will get as much out of it as they got of EQ2 and that would be enough to keep them in business the next 5 years.
I kind of doubt it too, but wow that would be an interesting development if EQNext tanked SOE.
I'm sure SOE is sweating bullets right now.. (at least their PC gaming dept).. Look at SOE's line up of games, Planetside 2, which happens to be their most played game (even more so then EQ2) barely ranks in the top 100.. Where and Who is SOE's cash cow, or "go to" game? Blizzard has WoW for example.. I honestly do see H1 or EQN stepping up and saving the day.. I think H1 will join the likes of PoTC, and EQN will probably be a niche small population game much like Landmark (#660)..
EQN is years away from going live.. If H1 tanks like many believe, EQN may never see the light of day.. It may be revamped for console, which will downsize the entire game..
If they can release it in a workable state, they will cash in on it, I don't think that's the problem, they will ride their EQ IP even if the game is bad.
However, if their slowed down updates are a sign of cash drying up at SoE, that would be a much bigger issue, having to scale down the project or being unable to convince investors or Sony, that would not end well.
P.S. To when beta is starting for EQN, it already has. Go pay 29.99 and join Landmark. You can test things that are going into ENQ. Everything from crafting to combat needs testing and feedback.
You can believe me or not,i been around long time and have seen everything and how SOE operates.My gut 100% believes that Next is being funded by Landmark,so it will be a very slow process.I also believe it is a fly by night setup with staff from other projects joining in between other ventures.Point is that a VERY small team is actually working on this full time.
I know SOE won't go full tilt low budget,they will make a decent looking game so it will take time.My gut thinks it is still very far away,unless they think they can pull off some amazing trickery by releasing it early and add in content as it goes hoping players don't reach the top end too fast.
Making of assets for a game take a lot of work,likely why we don't see amazing depth in our games,it takes too much money and time just to make the world.I have a thought on what SOE m igth actually do knowing it is taking too long.
What i think SOE is going to do is has half a game,1/2 being content they make and another half more or less an empty world,which they will claim is to allow players to create the content,but in reality it will be an unfinished game.
My reasoning is that SOE is no longer a rich developer,imo they are struggling badly,so the ywill be looking to cut a lot of corners in development.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well yeah, one or two years into the future could always have the chance to produce things we haven't seen, by definition. But... Do you have some sort of inside information you'd like to share with the rest of us?
My opinion is from what we know right now. I've thought for a while that it will be development tool improvements that make things more exciting in the MMO sphere. EQN/Landmark at the moment has the most of these so it would be a shame, in theory, to see it not get developed. I highly doubt this will be the case though.
I'm sure SOE is sweating bullets right now.. (at least their PC gaming dept).. Look at SOE's line up of games, Planetside 2, which happens to be their most played game (even more so then EQ2) barely ranks in the top 100.. Where and Who is SOE's cash cow, or "go to" game? Blizzard has WoW for example.. I honestly do see H1 or EQN stepping up and saving the day.. I think H1 will join the likes of PoTC, and EQN will probably be a niche small population game much like Landmark (#660)..
EQN is years away from going live.. If H1 tanks like many believe, EQN may never see the light of day.. It may be revamped for console, which will downsize the entire game..
Blizzard is in an entirely different league compared to SOE and every other MMO developer as far as I can tell. Diablo, Starcraft, WoW, Hearthstone, if they got around to releasing another Warcraft, and I'm damn sure Overwatch will be huge.
SOE is 2nd tier, just like ArenaNet, Zenimax, Trion, Carbine, etc. SOE has been around since the beginning, but hasn't ever been able to step out of Blizzard's shadow. They also haven't had a major mmorpg since EQ2 in 2004. They lost severely to WoW.
PS2 is a good game and once on PS4, might do relatively well. Will it ever catch on and be something Halo-Destiny-COD folks turn to? Who knows.
H1Z1 could do relatively well, especially if it is more feature packs and higher quality then DayZ, but I honestly doubt the "hardcore survival crowd" is as large or committed as some assume.
Landmark has huge potential, but I think it's a little ahead of its time and probably won't ever be SOE's top product.
EQN is pretty much their only hope to make a name for themselves in today's market and make a profit at the same time.
I doubt EQN will be a major blockbuster like WoW (no game will), but it has a lot more potential then Wildstar, ESO, GW2, etc that depending on our definitions, are all fairly successful and not niche games.
If SOE can pull off half of what they are saying, I don't see why at least a few million wouldn't be playing EQN. Might not be Blizzard level, but I wouldn't be upset if I was SOE.
They said at the very beginning that they are banking the companies future on EQN. They know the stakes a lot better then any of us forum experts.
You can believe me or not,i been around long time and have seen everything and how SOE operates.My gut 100% believes that Next is being funded by Landmark,so it will be a very slow process.I also believe it is a fly by night setup with staff from other projects joining in between other ventures.Point is that a VERY small team is actually working on this full time.
SOE doesn't have a ton of devs from what I can see, but that's true of pretty much all except Blizzard.
No clue what you are talking about as far as the fly by night or borrowing devs view though. SOE devs have a lot of face time with the public through live streams on Twitch, youtube videos, campus visits, and SOE Live as a main event.
It's fairly clear who is working on what. There are PS2 devs for example, now working either on H1Z1 exclusively or both. EQN's team is Landmark's team as well. Although depending on their role, may focus on one or the other more at a given time.
They don't seem to have many more in the works projects where devs are coming and going to.
If EQN is funded by Landmark, it won't see the light of day. The next EQ was being developed for a few years before Landmark existed. Not sure why they would stop funding the core project and go to running on the fumes of Landmark. SOE is an established company with funding, they aren't running on crowd funding or random investors.
Originally posted by Waterlily It's possible that it will never get released. $60 million dollar write off in 2014, many SoE staff fired and Sony losing patience, it's possible this game will never see the light of day. SoE's other game in development is H1Z1, and it's extremely low budget.
I kinda doubt that because SOE need to get in new revenues. EQN is more or less their last chanse to really turn around things.
If they would close down the game they would enter a death spiral nothing could get them out of. You can't live on old games forever since they slowly bleed players. SOE needs a new Everquest, something that changes the game for them and make them one of the leading companies again.
Of course EQN might fail but I think they at least will get as much out of it as they got of EQ2 and that would be enough to keep them in business the next 5 years.
I kind of doubt it too, but wow that would be an interesting development if EQNext tanked SOE.
I'm sure SOE is sweating bullets right now.. (at least their PC gaming dept).. Look at SOE's line up of games, Planetside 2, which happens to be their most played game (even more so then EQ2) barely ranks in the top 100.. Where and Who is SOE's cash cow, or "go to" game? Blizzard has WoW for example.. I honestly do see H1 or EQN stepping up and saving the day.. I think H1 will join the likes of PoTC, and EQN will probably be a niche small population game much like Landmark (#660)..
EQN is years away from going live.. If H1 tanks like many believe, EQN may never see the light of day.. It may be revamped for console, which will downsize the entire game..
Wow PS2 is their biggest game? Holy crap that is bad. PS2 feels a bit dead lately, and if that is their flagship as far as player base they are at least in the depths of mediocrity, possibly more like a marginal presence in the market. Smedley probably secretly works for EA.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Wow PS2 is their biggest game? Holy crap that is bad. PS2 feels a bit dead lately, and if that is their flagship as far as player base they are at least in the depths of mediocrity, possibly more like a marginal presence in the market. Smedley probably secretly works for EA.
As many companies do not release population numbers, not sure where those stats are coming from or how correct. Although I don't doubt that PS2 is the top for SOE, what else would be? Would like to see the source though, even though it can't be too accurate.
Originally posted by Aelious Yeah this same doom and gloom was posted back in March, the date of the article. Since then no major changes can be seen so no need to worry about things one can't change.
It would be unfortunate if SoE did dissolve. Take EQN/Landmark out of the picture and what is left in the way of forward thinking, fresh MMOs?
/crickets
Lots is left
SoE is not the only studio pushing the envelope.
Watch for MMO announcements this and next year - SoEs stuff will seem tame in comparison to what's coming.
What's the rush to get it launched? They'll go live and most people will hate the game, then they'll drastically change it and alienate their core fanbase who actually stuck with the game and then everyone who still plays will just act super pissed off all the time when they're not AFK in front of the bank/broker. But it will still stick around for 20 years or so because it's EQ.
Comments
All of SOE's new lineup uses the same engine since it's compatible with the playstation 4. The idea is to cash in on Destiny's success at bringing "MMO's" (believe me i'm using the term VERY loosely here) to the console world.
@ Vrika
Think of EQLM and H1Z1 as low budget spinoffs of EQN. SOE realized the engine they had created for PS2 was capable of a lot of cool stuff so they decided to shotgun a couple of games out there that have a low development overhead (everything is being developed for EQN anyway) and see what sticks / make some money on the side. There is no way on God's green earth that they will cancel EQN before it sees the light of day. Everquest is SOE's flagship franchise, the only way it's getting dropped is out of their cold, dead hands.
you are right both started their journey with the Forgelight engine, but most people consider Forgelight + Voxelfarm a totally different engine than what PS2 is using,
why siphon the crowds they have already in there other games there looking for a new market i would say and alot of complaits from the people from EQ1 and 2 is the art style which i dont see why that would turn people off to be honost, allthough i value gameplay over art/graphics i spose some people do it the other way round.
Voxel farm and Storybricks. Both could change how we MMO. Most of us are waiting to see if they pull it off.
thats a good point...will they cann the game once they come to the conclusion mmo's are dead? will they cann it if h1z1 does not work and produce the cash flow they expect? maybe h1z1 was just a short kinda cash in program to get cash flow and they hope it will work (cause it is certainly not a very work intense game so far)?
I kinda doubt that because SOE need to get in new revenues. EQN is more or less their last chanse to really turn around things.
If they would close down the game they would enter a death spiral nothing could get them out of. You can't live on old games forever since they slowly bleed players. SOE needs a new Everquest, something that changes the game for them and make them one of the leading companies again.
Of course EQN might fail but I think they at least will get as much out of it as they got of EQ2 and that would be enough to keep them in business the next 5 years.
I kind of doubt it too, but wow that would be an interesting development if EQNext tanked SOE.
I'm sure SOE is sweating bullets right now.. (at least their PC gaming dept).. Look at SOE's line up of games, Planetside 2, which happens to be their most played game (even more so then EQ2) barely ranks in the top 100.. Where and Who is SOE's cash cow, or "go to" game? Blizzard has WoW for example.. I honestly do see H1 or EQN stepping up and saving the day.. I think H1 will join the likes of PoTC, and EQN will probably be a niche small population game much like Landmark (#660)..
EQN is years away from going live.. If H1 tanks like many believe, EQN may never see the light of day.. It may be revamped for console, which will downsize the entire game..
If they can release it in a workable state, they will cash in on it, I don't think that's the problem, they will ride their EQ IP even if the game is bad.
However, if their slowed down updates are a sign of cash drying up at SoE, that would be a much bigger issue, having to scale down the project or being unable to convince investors or Sony, that would not end well.
You can believe me or not,i been around long time and have seen everything and how SOE operates.My gut 100% believes that Next is being funded by Landmark,so it will be a very slow process.I also believe it is a fly by night setup with staff from other projects joining in between other ventures.Point is that a VERY small team is actually working on this full time.
I know SOE won't go full tilt low budget,they will make a decent looking game so it will take time.My gut thinks it is still very far away,unless they think they can pull off some amazing trickery by releasing it early and add in content as it goes hoping players don't reach the top end too fast.
Making of assets for a game take a lot of work,likely why we don't see amazing depth in our games,it takes too much money and time just to make the world.I have a thought on what SOE m igth actually do knowing it is taking too long.
What i think SOE is going to do is has half a game,1/2 being content they make and another half more or less an empty world,which they will claim is to allow players to create the content,but in reality it will be an unfinished game.
My reasoning is that SOE is no longer a rich developer,imo they are struggling badly,so the ywill be looking to cut a lot of corners in development.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well yeah, one or two years into the future could always have the chance to produce things we haven't seen, by definition. But... Do you have some sort of inside information you'd like to share with the rest of us?
My opinion is from what we know right now. I've thought for a while that it will be development tool improvements that make things more exciting in the MMO sphere. EQN/Landmark at the moment has the most of these so it would be a shame, in theory, to see it not get developed. I highly doubt this will be the case though.
Blizzard is in an entirely different league compared to SOE and every other MMO developer as far as I can tell. Diablo, Starcraft, WoW, Hearthstone, if they got around to releasing another Warcraft, and I'm damn sure Overwatch will be huge.
SOE is 2nd tier, just like ArenaNet, Zenimax, Trion, Carbine, etc. SOE has been around since the beginning, but hasn't ever been able to step out of Blizzard's shadow. They also haven't had a major mmorpg since EQ2 in 2004. They lost severely to WoW.
PS2 is a good game and once on PS4, might do relatively well. Will it ever catch on and be something Halo-Destiny-COD folks turn to? Who knows.
H1Z1 could do relatively well, especially if it is more feature packs and higher quality then DayZ, but I honestly doubt the "hardcore survival crowd" is as large or committed as some assume.
Landmark has huge potential, but I think it's a little ahead of its time and probably won't ever be SOE's top product.
EQN is pretty much their only hope to make a name for themselves in today's market and make a profit at the same time.
I doubt EQN will be a major blockbuster like WoW (no game will), but it has a lot more potential then Wildstar, ESO, GW2, etc that depending on our definitions, are all fairly successful and not niche games.
If SOE can pull off half of what they are saying, I don't see why at least a few million wouldn't be playing EQN. Might not be Blizzard level, but I wouldn't be upset if I was SOE.
They said at the very beginning that they are banking the companies future on EQN. They know the stakes a lot better then any of us forum experts.
SOE doesn't have a ton of devs from what I can see, but that's true of pretty much all except Blizzard.
No clue what you are talking about as far as the fly by night or borrowing devs view though. SOE devs have a lot of face time with the public through live streams on Twitch, youtube videos, campus visits, and SOE Live as a main event.
It's fairly clear who is working on what. There are PS2 devs for example, now working either on H1Z1 exclusively or both. EQN's team is Landmark's team as well. Although depending on their role, may focus on one or the other more at a given time.
They don't seem to have many more in the works projects where devs are coming and going to.
If EQN is funded by Landmark, it won't see the light of day. The next EQ was being developed for a few years before Landmark existed. Not sure why they would stop funding the core project and go to running on the fumes of Landmark. SOE is an established company with funding, they aren't running on crowd funding or random investors.
Wow PS2 is their biggest game? Holy crap that is bad. PS2 feels a bit dead lately, and if that is their flagship as far as player base they are at least in the depths of mediocrity, possibly more like a marginal presence in the market. Smedley probably secretly works for EA.
As many companies do not release population numbers, not sure where those stats are coming from or how correct. Although I don't doubt that PS2 is the top for SOE, what else would be? Would like to see the source though, even though it can't be too accurate.
Ooo do tell what you are hinting at.