Ehh. When any company asks for money to access their alpha / closed beta game instead of paying me to test that mess is the time when that game / devs / fans can no longer hide behind the " its alpha " or " closed beta " shield. If you can accept money then you can accept criticism. Plain as day.
Now, is that really fair? Coming from someone with a Landmark banner in their signature I will have to take that comment with a grain of salt
Honestly, the day that they start paying the public to perform alpha and beta testing is the day that I walk away from the software industry. Sure, there was a time when there were some legitimately good beta testers, but now it's absolutely horrid. Honestly, it's a little insulting to anyone who has ever tested software. It would be like saying "I know where the appendix is and, therefore, I could perform an appendectomy." The statement wouldn't be untrue entirely. I'm sure there would be some people who could actually perform it successfully, but in the majority of cases people would just end up doing more harm than good.
Ehh. When any company asks for money to access their alpha / closed beta game instead of paying me to test that mess is the time when that game / devs / fans can no longer hide behind the " its alpha " or " closed beta " shield. If you can accept money then you can accept criticism. Plain as day.
Who said you can't offer critique? Alpha builds are all about critique, so no one is arguing they don't deserve it. Critique isn't the point here as there's a difference between critique and showing woeful ignorance on the subject of alpha status, and what that means.
Are we reading the same thread? Doesnt seem so. It is the same for all games.. " ZOMG its alpha / closed beta! " when it comes to criticism. When money is involved it is fair game and whatever definition you want to apply to alpha / closed beta is out the window because it no longer applies.
There is nothing wrong with criticism and most of it if we are being honest is stuff that we do need to work on.
The UI is a common complaint and something we are going to be working on improving. We have had a fairly steady line that we wanted to get deeper into completing the UI and then bring in a good UI artist and an experienced UX developer to help clean it up. What you currently see will be improved upon before Beta both visually and from a UX perspective. It made more sense for us to get it fleshed out first so we can try to make it more consistent once we had brought people to work on it. We are pretty much at that time and should see a revamp in this area very soon. We are not pleased with it, haven't been, but it made more sense to us to try to get most of the revamp done at once.
Animations have been improving during the stage of development and will continue to improve. More animations will be brought in to finish out a lot more of the NPC animations. Our art department in general will be expanding quite a bit in 2015 and part of that should be more animations on staff cleaning up some existing animations and creating new ones.
The other common complaint is tracking/finding NPCs. While improvements have been made here, there are still obvious issues and we have been discussing better systems to put into place here so it is easier. If Johnny wants you to deliver a package I think Johnny wants you to know where to send it to. We have been finishing up some things we had planned pre Steam release for the initial post steam Patch, but I would expect to see a pretty significant improvement in that area most likely after that patch.
Performance wise we have had some complaints. Some are due to some texture work needing to be done that has been an ongoing process before and after Steam. There are also some slight design changes that need to be made to some of the cities for better occlusion/culling that already have started in one of the main cities: Freedomtown. These zones are currently over budget in regards to where they need to be and are slowly being dragged back in. Some further occlusion/rooming work has been ongoing as well, once all this work is complete things should run better.
Combat is something that gets mentioned. Melee is in need of a bit of extra work and is a known, we will be making some adjustments to it as well beyond a few stat tweeks. More tightening of the system from an animation, sound, and responsiveness need to be done and will be.
These are just a few things, we have plenty to work on of course. That being said, talk is cheap and now that NDA is lifted everything we do/change will be out there for people to see moving forward. If people are on the fence they will be able to evaluate our progress the following months to see if we are reacting to the feedback and making improvements in the following areas (and others).
Ehh. When any company asks for money to access their alpha / closed beta game instead of paying me to test that mess is the time when that game / devs / fans can no longer hide behind the " its alpha " or " closed beta " shield. If you can accept money then you can accept criticism. Plain as day.
Now, is that really fair? Coming from someone with a Landmark banner in their signature I will have to take that comment with a grain of salt
Honestly, the day that they start paying the public to perform alpha and beta testing is the day that I walk away from the software industry. Sure, there was a time when there were some legitimately good beta testers, but now it's absolutely horrid. Honestly, it's a little insulting to anyone who has ever tested software. It would be like saying "I know where the appendix is and, therefore, I could perform an appendectomy." The statement wouldn't be untrue entirely. I'm sure there would be some people who could actually perform it successfully, but in the majority of cases people would just end up doing more harm than good.
I have criticized Landmark probably more than anyone. Why? Because I paid money for it. The game has lots of issues and many wont change between now and when it hits open beta. So take it however you want.
we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses. Which will then evolve to 'it is just a beta' and then 'it just released' to 'its only been few months' and so on. Anyone seeing the same pattern here?
I bought the game because of its close resemblance to SWG but the state it is in right now i don't see it releasing any time soon. Unless ofcourse they bring in a huge team to make things work out sooner. 2015 seems impossible right now.
But hey that is indie kickstarter MMOS for you.
This imho is just bs. No offence to you personally but there is a difference between an estalished companies alpha and a kickstarter alpha. First being more of a "the game is ready and we let people in" and the second being what I would call a real alpha meaning "we still modify and add stuff" stage.
I already stated that I will flame them, the Repop devs. if they don't deliver and I stand by that. I like what they promised but also see current flaws in the game one is that it promotes botting in its current version. But I also see that they aren't EA, SOE or Blizzard which means they have to prove themselves. They dont have a history so in my book that means what they say is to be taken seriously. A dev (josh if I am not mistaken, pls correct me if I am) said that they work on different aspects. And until you can prove them worng which would mean they released the game without something they promised you are (sry) wrong.
People really need to learn the difference between AAA companies and kickstarter ones because unless the community of MMORPG players give the 2nd ones a chance we will be stuck in the WoW clone cycle. Those are the games that are known to work and yield a profit but if you want to see something different you have to give new players in the industy a chance. IF they fail, flame them, report them to every site you have heard of so that they can write negative article about them and warn new players about them BUT until that moment I ask you to give them the beneift of a doubt. (hope my english is correct here)
The game isn't perfect in its current state but while it has been in development a while it still isnt the finished product. Sure you can buy and play it atm but that doesnt mean it is released.
There is nothing wrong with criticism and most of it if we are being honest is stuff that we do need to work on.
These are just a few things, we have plenty to work on of course. That being said, talk is cheap and now that NDA is lifted everything we do/change will be out there for people to see moving forward. If people are on the fence they will be able to evaluate our progress the following months to see if we are reacting to the feedback and making improvements in the following areas (and others).
I'm one of those "on the fencers" and have really had to stop myself from buying it on steam. I was pretty close in doing so when the price was reduced last week, but I wasn't completely sold on it.
That being said its good to hear that - at this time - based on my limited knowledge - the things I've been hearing about the game are at least acknowledged by the development team. I've spent too many of my years testing these games and giving feedback in other games to not have my feedback at least acknowledged, so this was good to see. I'll keep my eye on this one.
Drop in sometime and give us updates here. They are very welcome.
I paid roughly 35 bucks to play this alpha. I have probably put 50 hours or so into the game and will likely put in more.
I look at it as putting my support behind the game with the added benefit of getting to play it in its current state. And even at this point, I feel I have gotten enough value for money.
I can't say I love the game at this point, but at least I respect what they are trying to do. If people want better games they are going to have to support those that are trying to make them. I honestly think that it is the players themselves that are driving MMO games into the ground. Why indie teams even bother to try for this audience is a bit of a mystery to me. Pretty sure all they are trying to do is make the best game they can, but then they have to listen to all the armchair critics bitchin and moanin about this and that.
This is not going to be competing with the big guns like ESO and FFARR. The devs themselves admit this is a niche game.
The $35 I put into this game is also as a show of support as I like the concept. It's in alpha so for me it's to early to start predicting how the game will be at launch. Not even the Devs can predict some things at this point cause that's what a work in progress is. I'm able to log in, and play with a few things, all without crashing or running into major bugs, as the game appears pretty stable which is for me a call of 'so far so good'.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
And this says nothing about the post release issues they are going to be facing. Especially releasing as F2P.
This is what you deal with when dealing with small companies. Part of the price of niche appeal and designs. You want them this is the price you pay.
On top of that, the idea of polish and huge games with many freedoms is another expectation you will rarely ever find met. Even the biggest of these games fail in this department time and time again. It's part of what you have to deal with to have these types of games. Skyrim has some of the most hilarious to down right infuriating glitches you can find in gaming, it's also one of the deepest modern games. Par for the course.
Skyrim's issues were related to it being rushed out unfinished (the modding community has uncovered overwhelming evidence that Skyrim was shipped as a gutted product). Same issues that currently plague every AAA MMORPG, pressured to release an incomplete product. I don't think that's a concern here.
My biggest concern here is how this team is going to handle a F2P community bend on exploiting every crack and crevasse they can find in the code.
There are a ton of issues that are engine related that have always been there with TES titles, anyone who messes with the CK and those tools that came before it can tell you that. It's all related to running so many scripts at the same time and the architecture that binds them together, one small oversight anywhere within affects it all. There is a lot of stuff going on in the background at all times in TES games especially Oblivion and Skyrim with their updated NPC systems. on top of so many physical items laying around to track. There's a lot more to it than a matter of rushed timing.
They will have hack issues, the extent of which may be severe, if it were solely a PVP oriented game I might worry about that, but there actually seems to be sand in this box, as opposed to many others that have come along recently. WIth that brings hope of a real community forming. One that isn't all about the red=dead mentality. In such a scenario that is really not of importance. Like SWG bad seeds get weeded out, there's no need to include them in your circle.
I hope you are right about that. Several times, I have been to their site and have all but clicked on the submit button to support this title. I just can't seem to put my doubts aside for it though. If I knew it would be as you say, I could deal with a lot of bugginess to get the overall game I want. But not if it goes so far as to actually break the game, or just as important, if they can't keep up with player related / created issues.
I have never backed a kick-starter game. I don't like the idea of paying for a game before it's ready or comes out. Finally, I relented and this is the ONLY game I have ever backed through crowd-funding and I will probably not do it again. It feels pre-alpha to me. I will check in on it from time to time but I don't see a lot of progress happening for a few years. I am still looking forward to the game and like what I see but I regret backing it this early.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I have never backed a kick-starter game. I don't like the idea of paying for a game before it's ready or comes out. Finally, I relented and this is the ONLY game I have ever backed through crowd-funding and I will probably not do it again. It feels pre-alpha to me. I will check in on it from time to time but I don't see a lot of progress happening for a few years. I am still looking forward to the game and like what I see but I regret backing it this early.
You like what you see but regret backing it early?
Why not feel good that you gave a game that you seem to like a chance to survive and grow?
Thats a good thing!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Combat is something that gets mentioned. Melee is in need of a bit of extra work and is a known, we will be making some adjustments to it as well beyond a few stat tweeks. More tightening of the system from an animation, sound, and responsiveness need to be done and will be.
Josh,
The problem with combat is you are trying to utilize two entirely different concepts for combat and not shining with either. I wish this game would stop trying to be everything to everyone and just focus down to sticking to core concepts really well.
Action combat feels like crap, mobs rubber band all over the place and even when tabbing and using hotkeys to assist in action combat is is still clunky as hell. Take a look at Firefall or hell even Fallen Earth, for MMO action shooter/tab combat
Combat really needs to be addressed, since you put the game out there to the masses via steam I can see people getting turned off at the games current state.
There is no consistency in combat... You can get wrecked by trivial mobs and completely destroy some higher level ones.
You may want to consider doing a polish pass on combat before tweaking UI's and making aesthetic adjustments.
we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses. Which will then evolve to 'it is just a beta' and then 'it just released' to 'its only been few months' and so on. Anyone seeing the same pattern here?
I bought the game because of its close resemblance to SWG but the state it is in right now i don't see it releasing any time soon. Unless ofcourse they bring in a huge team to make things work out sooner. 2015 seems impossible right now.
But hey that is indie kickstarter MMOS for you.
No offence bud but your post is pretty pointless... How about you tell us why in your opinion the game is in a bad state?
I have not bought into this game so would be interested in your take on things... Give me/us some detail to debate...
I can only base my opinion on the tutorial. I'd give my opinion on more of the game but the tutorial didn't leave me motivated enough to continue, as it was neither too interesting or compelling from gameplay or immersion perspectives. I understand that the game is in a proper alpha stage and not a marketing stage, so I consider issues to be resolvable prior to a public beta.
My first real issue with the game as it is right now is the absolutely abysmal combat systems. The game has an identity crisis where it cannot figure out if it wants to be a shooter or a tab targeting game, and in this process it ends up doing both of these things very poorly; WoW or GW2 are better tab targeting games, while any traditional FPS game makes for a better shooter.
TR's developers need to pick one and put their limited development resources into that instead of doing this half-arsed job at double dipping. In my personal opinion the advertised gameplay would fit better with a shooter style gameplay similar to Darkfall, since both games compete in the same niche market. That being said, TR uses the Hero Engine, and to my knowledge it doesn't do shooters (or MMO's...) very well by default, which by the way, has an obvious impact on TR.
The other serious issue I have with the game are the poor character controls, which extends to the game's GUI controls for the most part The character movement feels unresponsive, un-natural, and look 'off'. This an outcome of a combination of factors, including animations. Player characters are the core of most games, especially MMO's. These need to feel and function perfectly, and since they currently don't, that does leave me questioning the state of the rest of the game.
Additionally, while I personally am not intimidated by the crafting system, I can easily say that for most people it is far too complicated and the dependency on other players is far too high for the average player. I think they need to reconsider having different quality levels of materials and just stick to having different materials with a single quality level.
Other than that, the tutorial does an okay job at explaining the basics of the game (once you figure out you cannot interact with NPC's in shooter mode). It is however relatively lengthy and boring, which highlights the immersion issue I mentioned. I foresee a lot of people just quitting the game during this tutorial out of boredom if it were to launch as-is.
On a final worthwhile note, once you leave the tutorial you will quickly see the world graphics and how horrifically dated they are, we're talking 2003 era here and that is no exaggeration, and I don't think the alpha excuse works for game artwork.
TR has a lot of good concepts, but so do many indie games. The difference between a successful game and a failing one is quite simply the fact whether or not a game can deliver the goods they promised in the right condition (or at all). TR is still in alpha, so they got the chance to do it right before launching the game into public marketing beta.
I can only base my opinion on the tutorial. I'd give my opinion on more of the game but the tutorial didn't leave me motivated enough to continue, as it was neither too interesting or compelling from gameplay or immersion perspectives. I understand that the game is in a proper alpha stage and not a marketing stage, so I consider issues to be resolvable prior to a public beta.
My first real issue with the game as it is right now is the absolutely abysmal combat systems. The game has an identity crisis where it cannot figure out if it wants to be a shooter or a tab targeting game, and in this process it ends up doing both of these things very poorly; WoW or GW2 are better tab targeting games, while any traditional FPS game makes for a better shooter.
TR's developers need to pick one and put their limited development resources into that instead of doing this half-arsed job at double dipping. In my personal opinion the advertised gameplay would fit better with a shooter style gameplay similar to Darkfall, since both games compete in the same niche market. That being said, TR uses the Hero Engine, and to my knowledge it doesn't do shooters (or MMO's...) very well by default, which by the way, has an obvious impact on TR.
The other serious issue I have with the game are the poor character controls, which extends to the game's GUI controls for the most part The character movement feels unresponsive, un-natural, and look 'off'. This an outcome of a combination of factors, including animations. Player characters are the core of most games, especially MMO's. These need to feel and function perfectly, and since they currently don't, that does leave me questioning the state of the rest of the game.
Additionally, while I personally am not intimidated by the crafting system, I can easily say that for most people it is far too complicated and the dependency on other players is far too high for the average player. I think they need to reconsider having different quality levels of materials and just stick to having different materials with a single quality level.
Other than that, the tutorial does an okay job at explaining the basics of the game (once you figure out you cannot interact with NPC's in shooter mode). It is however relatively lengthy and boring, which highlights the immersion issue I mentioned. I foresee a lot of people just quitting the game during this tutorial out of boredom if it were to launch as-is.
On a final worthwhile note, once you leave the tutorial you will quickly see the world graphics and how horrifically dated they are, we're talking 2003 era here and that is no exaggeration, and I don't think the alpha excuse works for game artwork.
TR has a lot of good concepts, but so do many indie games. The difference between a successful game and a failing one is quite simply the fact whether or not a game can deliver the goods they promised in the right condition (or at all). TR is still in alpha, so they got the chance to do it right before launching the game into public marketing beta.
So how many games have you made?? The comment about the graphics, is something they are doing smart.. You may not be used to it, but many devs have went indie as we feel a lot of AAA companys shit all over the devs.. Not saying all AAA are bad, but ask a lot of devs they like to work for a small company as they can make the game right.
So graphics are going to come in with better rendering, they are working on, better shader support, I can see they are missing many basic shaders, which they did I bet to test the game which is not uncommon but for todays games it is, since AAA like to rush things.
So gamers may not be used to this, I work in the field as a UI designer, Artist/Programmer not for this game but for AAA and now indies, so I see the difference, you stated you never left the tutorial well every one I told to play this game I said ignore it as it does suck bad. They need to re do it, because it ruins the game for most once your out, its better. The combat is typical MMO style combat, I do agree having two combats are bad I said this during early beta, which I felt they were silly about, but I pick one style and I go with it and it does not bother me as its typical.
The crafting is one of the best around period, it puts and AAA companys crafting to shame give them time, they don't have millions and they have tiny team , and they will do even better.
Being in the industry I,m even impressed with what they did with a small team in the time period they did it, some of you want to bash them but please go make a game, or try to, then come talk to me.
They deserve respect and this is another reason most GOOD devs will never make a MMO, you guys on sites like this bash every single MMO on the market, you people like to complain about everything!!!!
we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses. Which will then evolve to 'it is just a beta' and then 'it just released' to 'its only been few months' and so on. Anyone seeing the same pattern here?
I bought the game because of its close resemblance to SWG but the state it is in right now i don't see it releasing any time soon. Unless ofcourse they bring in a huge team to make things work out sooner. 2015 seems impossible right now.
But hey that is indie kickstarter MMOS for you.
No offence bud but your post is pretty pointless... How about you tell us why in your opinion the game is in a bad state?
I have not bought into this game so would be interested in your take on things... Give me/us some detail to debate...
I agree his post is senseless and this is why devs go through.... He stated unless you bring in a huge steam I laughed super hard... MMO's are hard to work on, but laying out the world and having a lot of the main functions is what is needed.
People are mostky whining that the graphics are dated and that the game is to hard, which a lot of us love that its not WOW and a clone...
Do they need work yes, and using that is not a excuse when people say ALPHA, because guess what come see ANY game in ALPHA form, guess what hats what it looks like..
I would love for you to see the game in early development when the characters are a BOX and AI is boxes.. You would have a heart attack!!
We've noticed three common complaints from the users who have not liked the game and they fall into the basic categories: Graphics, UI, or Complexity. The complexity is something that is here to stay. We'll keep streamlining the interface and tutorials to make things easier for people, but that's part of what makes the game unique. Some players will hate it, but others will love it. It's a tradeoff we're willing to make. There's plenty of other simple games out there. That having been said there are things that we can do to make some of the more complex features easier to learn and grasp, and that's something you'll see continue throughout testing.
Graphics and UI though, that's to be expected. If you look at our roadmap you'll see that both areas are things that are represented heavily on there. There's a whole new XML customized interface in the pipeline. Graphically, that's been our approach. The graphics improve as we go, but the reality is that artists aren't cheap and a big part of the reason you do something like a Steam Early Access is to generate money so you can hire more artists and get things done more quickly. If rough animations or graphics ruin a game for you, I'd suggest you wait until closer to launch or post-launch.
I have never backed a kick-starter game. I don't like the idea of paying for a game before it's ready or comes out. Finally, I relented and this is the ONLY game I have ever backed through crowd-funding and I will probably not do it again. It feels pre-alpha to me. I will check in on it from time to time but I don't see a lot of progress happening for a few years. I am still looking forward to the game and like what I see but I regret backing it this early.
You like what you see but regret backing it early?
Why not feel good that you gave a game that you seem to like a chance to survive and grow?
Thats a good thing!
Well that is the ONE positive way of looking at it.There is a down side it encourages a thousand of these wannabe triple A developers to pop up with NOTHING to lose but broken promises.
Now before i mention the game ,i want to say it does not mean good or bad but it does mean unpredictable.Look at Star Citizen,this team already had multiple Millions with not one single iota of promise,really almsot nothing to go on,so all that money came from what,there was nothing yet to base it on.
Sure over time that game MIGHT grow into what you had imagined but it still came from NOTHING,just talk.SO when a LARGE portion of those free hand outs are baseless,you cannot warrant the free hand out based on nothing it is silly.
Now if you want to support PROVEN material that you can actually see and perhaps even test FIRST,then yes i am 100% ok with that.However this is NOT what is happening,instead tons of devs playing with other people's money,living in their expensive houses making a living off other's money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by raapnaapI can only base my opinion on the tutorial. I'd give my opinion on more of the game but the tutorial didn't leave me motivated enough to continue, as it was neither too interesting or compelling from gameplay or immersion perspectives. I understand that the game is in a proper alpha stage and not a marketing stage, so I consider issues to be resolvable prior to a public beta.My first real issue with the game as it is right now is the absolutely abysmal combat systems. The game has an identity crisis where it cannot figure out if it wants to be a shooter or a tab targeting game, and in this process it ends up doing both of these things very poorly; WoW or GW2 are better tab targeting games, while any traditional FPS game makes for a better shooter.TR's developers need to pick one and put their limited development resources into that instead of doing this half-arsed job at double dipping. In my personal opinion the advertised gameplay would fit better with a shooter style gameplay similar to Darkfall, since both games compete in the same niche market. That being said, TR uses the Hero Engine, and to my knowledge it doesn't do shooters (or MMO's...) very well by default, which by the way, has an obvious impact on TR.The other serious issue I have with the game are the poor character controls, which extends to the game's GUI controls for the most part The character movement feels unresponsive, un-natural, and look 'off'. This an outcome of a combination of factors, including animations. Player characters are the core of most games, especially MMO's. These need to feel and function perfectly, and since they currently don't, that does leave me questioning the state of the rest of the game.Additionally, while I personally am not intimidated by the crafting system, I can easily say that for most people it is far too complicated and the dependency on other players is far too high for the average player. I think they need to reconsider having different quality levels of materials and just stick to having different materials with a single quality level.Other than that, the tutorial does an okay job at explaining the basics of the game (once you figure out you cannot interact with NPC's in shooter mode). It is however relatively lengthy and boring, which highlights the immersion issue I mentioned. I foresee a lot of people just quitting the game during this tutorial out of boredom if it were to launch as-is.On a final worthwhile note, once you leave the tutorial you will quickly see the world graphics and how horrifically dated they are, we're talking 2003 era here and that is no exaggeration, and I don't think the alpha excuse works for game artwork.TR has a lot of good concepts, but so do many indie games. The difference between a successful game and a failing one is quite simply the fact whether or not a game can deliver the goods they promised in the right condition (or at all). TR is still in alpha, so they got the chance to do it right before launching the game into public marketing beta.
So how many games have you made?? The comment about the graphics, is something they are doing smart.. You may not be used to it, but many devs have went indie as we feel a lot of AAA companys shit all over the devs.. Not saying all AAA are bad, but ask a lot of devs they like to work for a small company as they can make the game right.
So graphics are going to come in with better rendering, they are working on, better shader support, I can see they are missing many basic shaders, which they did I bet to test the game which is not uncommon but for todays games it is, since AAA like to rush things.
So gamers may not be used to this, I work in the field as a UI designer, Artist/Programmer not for this game but for AAA and now indies, so I see the difference, you stated you never left the tutorial well every one I told to play this game I said ignore it as it does suck bad. They need to re do it, because it ruins the game for most once your out, its better. The combat is typical MMO style combat, I do agree having two combats are bad I said this during early beta, which I felt they were silly about, but I pick one style and I go with it and it does not bother me as its typical.
The crafting is one of the best around period, it puts and AAA companys crafting to shame give them time, they don't have millions and they have tiny team , and they will do even better.
Being in the industry I,m even impressed with what they did with a small team in the time period they did it, some of you want to bash them but please go make a game, or try to, then come talk to me.
They deserve respect and this is another reason most GOOD devs will never make a MMO, you guys on sites like this bash every single MMO on the market, you people like to complain about everything!!!!
Make your own game Then!!!
You are confusing 'bashing' with criticism and feedback. I am not bashing the game in the slightest, I have absolutely no reason or interest in doing so. In fact the only reason I even wrote that post was to express a level of interest in the product, but I highlighted points which bothered me about the product as it is, in order to make sure they are noticed. If I or other people didn't care, we could have just not said anything and walked away while leaving the developers none the wiser. Alternatively, if the developers are not looking for feedback, they should have left the NDA in place.
As for making my own game, I have made two, however this was over 10 years ago and neither were massively multiplayer games. I'd happily make another game today but my life's path does not lead me to that any longer, and neither do I see it to be relevant to my capability of presenting feedback on other products. If feedback required a certificate granted exclusively from being within the same industry of the subject of the feedback, then we'd be living in a world with very little improvements happening.
OP, What pattern are you refering to? Im not quite sure I even understand your point. Game is early access late alpha which means exactly that. If your not capable of understanding what it mean than you definatly need to wait untill retail official launch. Truth be told, Ive bought and played games that WERE officially released and didnt have half the features or stability that repop has. Its very feature rich as we speak, and as stated by the Dev, has a ways to go but the small team continues to work on it. I take my hats off to these guys and am quite pleased to be able to support them . Its a heck of a game so far and I cant wait to see how it evolves in the future.
we are already seeing its 'just an alpha' excuses. Which will then evolve to 'it is just a beta' and then 'it just released' to 'its only been few months' and so on. Anyone seeing the same pattern here?
I bought the game because of its close resemblance to SWG but the state it is in right now i don't see it releasing any time soon. Unless ofcourse they bring in a huge team to make things work out sooner. 2015 seems impossible right now.
But hey that is indie kickstarter MMOS for you.
What is broken with the game that you feel it won't be released this year? Every system in the game seems to just have MINOR bugs for an alpha. The only consistent complaint I've seen people make is about graphic quality in general. Combat has been second, but it seems to be mainly by people who want the game to be FPS only. I agree that the devs should only go with one or the other, but the game, for me anyways, plays better in action mode due to having real LOS and I dislike managing 100s of hot keys and action mode streamlines this process pretty well IMO (once you understand momentum)
I saw gameplay videos today for the first time and was really surprised how terrible everything looks and feels. They chasing depth neglecting things that can turn off a player immediately. Even fonts are horrendous and its not something that is hard to do well
Way to early to tell about actual launch, many decent things
crafting is to much. Why? SWG's complexity was right on the money, the whole different letter grades actually make it a not enjoyable process.
No present class skills and unlimited skill system. To me this is a turn off. Why not have a skill point cap with the ability to remove skills and regrind others? This worked wonderfully in the past.
No big enough. To make crafting and resources viable it needs more. To get around multiple worlds, it could of been simply different continents on a large world. Many options.
Here is my biggest complaint. Really the funniest part of Galaxies was the ability to make an economy. To make and economy it has to be simple at the core, yet complex at the end. Galaxies mastered that with different quality level of resource spawns. If you sat long enough you made the best ever.
With that you had an economy that evolved around social aspects and crafting at the core:
Resources needed mined, this lead to some players renting or utilizing mines for resources just to be bought by the crafters.
Resources needed farmed in the case of meats, hide, and occasionally bone.
Doctors made buffs needed to be utilized by combat professions using armor and weapons made by crafters that lasted roughly 2-3hrs on average.
Musicians and Dancers then provided more buffs those making money and a large social aspect was created.
All of that flowed in harmony together. Was it perfect? No, but it was damn near close to everyone needed to do their part. Galaxies at its peak was excellent before the CU and NGE. It was my favorite game to date. The CU cut off its legs and then the NGE destroyed it.
I'm not evening going to talk about how awesome Space combat was as a whole other part.
What I'm saying is this formula has yet to be copied. There is no reason not to copy it. What Repopulation did was copy bits and pieces of it, but make it more complex, and in the end so far that has left it with nothing resembling SWG as I thought it would.
Even most the weapon classes have been covered and yet the game is lacking. I hope Repopulation team figures out what they have is way to complex and a grind.
I am currently not digging it much for many reasons that I mentioned, but am holding out hope for a later release while spending a few hours a week on this game between matches in Hex atm.
I saw gameplay videos today for the first time and was really surprised how terrible everything looks and feels. They chasing depth neglecting things that can turn off a player immediately. Even fonts are horrendous and its not something that is hard to do well
For something so niche I don't think we could hope for something that look much better. I am ok with it, I am enjoying it right now so I guess it can only gets better before release.
I paid roughly 35 bucks to play this alpha. I have probably put 50 hours or so into the game and will likely put in more.
I look at it as putting my support behind the game with the added benefit of getting to play it in its current state. And even at this point, I feel I have gotten enough value for money.
I can't say I love the game at this point, but at least I respect what they are trying to do. If people want better games they are going to have to support those that are trying to make them. I honestly think that it is the players themselves that are driving MMO games into the ground. Why indie teams even bother to try for this audience is a bit of a mystery to me. Pretty sure all they are trying to do is make the best game they can, but then they have to listen to all the armchair critics bitchin and moanin about this and that.
This is not going to be competing with the big guns like ESO and FFARR. The devs themselves admit this is a niche game.
The highlighted paragraph above pretty much sums up my thoughts on this subject. I can't really agree more with this.
I'm even more surprised that the owner and other employees of this game would actually come to this site to read what people are saying about The Repopulation.
I applaud them for trying and I am supporting this game.
I have never backed a kick-starter game. I don't like the idea of paying for a game before it's ready or comes out. Finally, I relented and this is the ONLY game I have ever backed through crowd-funding and I will probably not do it again. It feels pre-alpha to me. I will check in on it from time to time but I don't see a lot of progress happening for a few years. I am still looking forward to the game and like what I see but I regret backing it this early.
You say the game feels like pre-alpha and to me it looks like pre-alpha. All of these types of games sound good on paper just like Darkfall and Mortal Online. I have no idea why anybody would back these games after they show actual gameplay. The videos are always painful to watch.
Comments
Now, is that really fair? Coming from someone with a Landmark banner in their signature I will have to take that comment with a grain of salt
Honestly, the day that they start paying the public to perform alpha and beta testing is the day that I walk away from the software industry. Sure, there was a time when there were some legitimately good beta testers, but now it's absolutely horrid. Honestly, it's a little insulting to anyone who has ever tested software. It would be like saying "I know where the appendix is and, therefore, I could perform an appendectomy." The statement wouldn't be untrue entirely. I'm sure there would be some people who could actually perform it successfully, but in the majority of cases people would just end up doing more harm than good.
Crazkanuk
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Are we reading the same thread? Doesnt seem so. It is the same for all games.. " ZOMG its alpha / closed beta! " when it comes to criticism. When money is involved it is fair game and whatever definition you want to apply to alpha / closed beta is out the window because it no longer applies.
There is nothing wrong with criticism and most of it if we are being honest is stuff that we do need to work on.
The UI is a common complaint and something we are going to be working on improving. We have had a fairly steady line that we wanted to get deeper into completing the UI and then bring in a good UI artist and an experienced UX developer to help clean it up. What you currently see will be improved upon before Beta both visually and from a UX perspective. It made more sense for us to get it fleshed out first so we can try to make it more consistent once we had brought people to work on it. We are pretty much at that time and should see a revamp in this area very soon. We are not pleased with it, haven't been, but it made more sense to us to try to get most of the revamp done at once.
Animations have been improving during the stage of development and will continue to improve. More animations will be brought in to finish out a lot more of the NPC animations. Our art department in general will be expanding quite a bit in 2015 and part of that should be more animations on staff cleaning up some existing animations and creating new ones.
The other common complaint is tracking/finding NPCs. While improvements have been made here, there are still obvious issues and we have been discussing better systems to put into place here so it is easier. If Johnny wants you to deliver a package I think Johnny wants you to know where to send it to. We have been finishing up some things we had planned pre Steam release for the initial post steam Patch, but I would expect to see a pretty significant improvement in that area most likely after that patch.
Performance wise we have had some complaints. Some are due to some texture work needing to be done that has been an ongoing process before and after Steam. There are also some slight design changes that need to be made to some of the cities for better occlusion/culling that already have started in one of the main cities: Freedomtown. These zones are currently over budget in regards to where they need to be and are slowly being dragged back in. Some further occlusion/rooming work has been ongoing as well, once all this work is complete things should run better.
Combat is something that gets mentioned. Melee is in need of a bit of extra work and is a known, we will be making some adjustments to it as well beyond a few stat tweeks. More tightening of the system from an animation, sound, and responsiveness need to be done and will be.
These are just a few things, we have plenty to work on of course. That being said, talk is cheap and now that NDA is lifted everything we do/change will be out there for people to see moving forward. If people are on the fence they will be able to evaluate our progress the following months to see if we are reacting to the feedback and making improvements in the following areas (and others).
Joshua Halls
Co Owner-Lead Programmer The Repopulation
I have criticized Landmark probably more than anyone. Why? Because I paid money for it. The game has lots of issues and many wont change between now and when it hits open beta. So take it however you want.
This imho is just bs. No offence to you personally but there is a difference between an estalished companies alpha and a kickstarter alpha. First being more of a "the game is ready and we let people in" and the second being what I would call a real alpha meaning "we still modify and add stuff" stage.
I already stated that I will flame them, the Repop devs. if they don't deliver and I stand by that. I like what they promised but also see current flaws in the game one is that it promotes botting in its current version. But I also see that they aren't EA, SOE or Blizzard which means they have to prove themselves. They dont have a history so in my book that means what they say is to be taken seriously. A dev (josh if I am not mistaken, pls correct me if I am) said that they work on different aspects. And until you can prove them worng which would mean they released the game without something they promised you are (sry) wrong.
People really need to learn the difference between AAA companies and kickstarter ones because unless the community of MMORPG players give the 2nd ones a chance we will be stuck in the WoW clone cycle. Those are the games that are known to work and yield a profit but if you want to see something different you have to give new players in the industy a chance. IF they fail, flame them, report them to every site you have heard of so that they can write negative article about them and warn new players about them BUT until that moment I ask you to give them the beneift of a doubt. (hope my english is correct here)
The game isn't perfect in its current state but while it has been in development a while it still isnt the finished product. Sure you can buy and play it atm but that doesnt mean it is released.
I'm one of those "on the fencers" and have really had to stop myself from buying it on steam. I was pretty close in doing so when the price was reduced last week, but I wasn't completely sold on it.
That being said its good to hear that - at this time - based on my limited knowledge - the things I've been hearing about the game are at least acknowledged by the development team. I've spent too many of my years testing these games and giving feedback in other games to not have my feedback at least acknowledged, so this was good to see. I'll keep my eye on this one.
Drop in sometime and give us updates here. They are very welcome.
The $35 I put into this game is also as a show of support as I like the concept. It's in alpha so for me it's to early to start predicting how the game will be at launch. Not even the Devs can predict some things at this point cause that's what a work in progress is. I'm able to log in, and play with a few things, all without crashing or running into major bugs, as the game appears pretty stable which is for me a call of 'so far so good'.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I hope you are right about that. Several times, I have been to their site and have all but clicked on the submit button to support this title. I just can't seem to put my doubts aside for it though. If I knew it would be as you say, I could deal with a lot of bugginess to get the overall game I want. But not if it goes so far as to actually break the game, or just as important, if they can't keep up with player related / created issues.
I have never backed a kick-starter game. I don't like the idea of paying for a game before it's ready or comes out. Finally, I relented and this is the ONLY game I have ever backed through crowd-funding and I will probably not do it again. It feels pre-alpha to me. I will check in on it from time to time but I don't see a lot of progress happening for a few years. I am still looking forward to the game and like what I see but I regret backing it this early.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
You like what you see but regret backing it early?
Why not feel good that you gave a game that you seem to like a chance to survive and grow?
Thats a good thing!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Josh,
The problem with combat is you are trying to utilize two entirely different concepts for combat and not shining with either. I wish this game would stop trying to be everything to everyone and just focus down to sticking to core concepts really well.
Action combat feels like crap, mobs rubber band all over the place and even when tabbing and using hotkeys to assist in action combat is is still clunky as hell. Take a look at Firefall or hell even Fallen Earth, for MMO action shooter/tab combat
Combat really needs to be addressed, since you put the game out there to the masses via steam I can see people getting turned off at the games current state.
There is no consistency in combat... You can get wrecked by trivial mobs and completely destroy some higher level ones.
You may want to consider doing a polish pass on combat before tweaking UI's and making aesthetic adjustments.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
No offence bud but your post is pretty pointless... How about you tell us why in your opinion the game is in a bad state?
I have not bought into this game so would be interested in your take on things... Give me/us some detail to debate...
I can only base my opinion on the tutorial. I'd give my opinion on more of the game but the tutorial didn't leave me motivated enough to continue, as it was neither too interesting or compelling from gameplay or immersion perspectives. I understand that the game is in a proper alpha stage and not a marketing stage, so I consider issues to be resolvable prior to a public beta.
My first real issue with the game as it is right now is the absolutely abysmal combat systems. The game has an identity crisis where it cannot figure out if it wants to be a shooter or a tab targeting game, and in this process it ends up doing both of these things very poorly; WoW or GW2 are better tab targeting games, while any traditional FPS game makes for a better shooter.
TR's developers need to pick one and put their limited development resources into that instead of doing this half-arsed job at double dipping. In my personal opinion the advertised gameplay would fit better with a shooter style gameplay similar to Darkfall, since both games compete in the same niche market. That being said, TR uses the Hero Engine, and to my knowledge it doesn't do shooters (or MMO's...) very well by default, which by the way, has an obvious impact on TR.
The other serious issue I have with the game are the poor character controls, which extends to the game's GUI controls for the most part The character movement feels unresponsive, un-natural, and look 'off'. This an outcome of a combination of factors, including animations. Player characters are the core of most games, especially MMO's. These need to feel and function perfectly, and since they currently don't, that does leave me questioning the state of the rest of the game.
Additionally, while I personally am not intimidated by the crafting system, I can easily say that for most people it is far too complicated and the dependency on other players is far too high for the average player. I think they need to reconsider having different quality levels of materials and just stick to having different materials with a single quality level.
Other than that, the tutorial does an okay job at explaining the basics of the game (once you figure out you cannot interact with NPC's in shooter mode). It is however relatively lengthy and boring, which highlights the immersion issue I mentioned. I foresee a lot of people just quitting the game during this tutorial out of boredom if it were to launch as-is.
On a final worthwhile note, once you leave the tutorial you will quickly see the world graphics and how horrifically dated they are, we're talking 2003 era here and that is no exaggeration, and I don't think the alpha excuse works for game artwork.
TR has a lot of good concepts, but so do many indie games. The difference between a successful game and a failing one is quite simply the fact whether or not a game can deliver the goods they promised in the right condition (or at all). TR is still in alpha, so they got the chance to do it right before launching the game into public marketing beta.
So how many games have you made?? The comment about the graphics, is something they are doing smart.. You may not be used to it, but many devs have went indie as we feel a lot of AAA companys shit all over the devs.. Not saying all AAA are bad, but ask a lot of devs they like to work for a small company as they can make the game right.
So graphics are going to come in with better rendering, they are working on, better shader support, I can see they are missing many basic shaders, which they did I bet to test the game which is not uncommon but for todays games it is, since AAA like to rush things.
So gamers may not be used to this, I work in the field as a UI designer, Artist/Programmer not for this game but for AAA and now indies, so I see the difference, you stated you never left the tutorial well every one I told to play this game I said ignore it as it does suck bad. They need to re do it, because it ruins the game for most once your out, its better. The combat is typical MMO style combat, I do agree having two combats are bad I said this during early beta, which I felt they were silly about, but I pick one style and I go with it and it does not bother me as its typical.
The crafting is one of the best around period, it puts and AAA companys crafting to shame give them time, they don't have millions and they have tiny team , and they will do even better.
Being in the industry I,m even impressed with what they did with a small team in the time period they did it, some of you want to bash them but please go make a game, or try to, then come talk to me.
They deserve respect and this is another reason most GOOD devs will never make a MMO, you guys on sites like this bash every single MMO on the market, you people like to complain about everything!!!!
Make your own game Then!!!
I agree his post is senseless and this is why devs go through.... He stated unless you bring in a huge steam I laughed super hard... MMO's are hard to work on, but laying out the world and having a lot of the main functions is what is needed.
People are mostky whining that the graphics are dated and that the game is to hard, which a lot of us love that its not WOW and a clone...
Do they need work yes, and using that is not a excuse when people say ALPHA, because guess what come see ANY game in ALPHA form, guess what hats what it looks like..
I would love for you to see the game in early development when the characters are a BOX and AI is boxes.. You would have a heart attack!!
We've noticed three common complaints from the users who have not liked the game and they fall into the basic categories: Graphics, UI, or Complexity. The complexity is something that is here to stay. We'll keep streamlining the interface and tutorials to make things easier for people, but that's part of what makes the game unique. Some players will hate it, but others will love it. It's a tradeoff we're willing to make. There's plenty of other simple games out there. That having been said there are things that we can do to make some of the more complex features easier to learn and grasp, and that's something you'll see continue throughout testing.
Graphics and UI though, that's to be expected. If you look at our roadmap you'll see that both areas are things that are represented heavily on there. There's a whole new XML customized interface in the pipeline. Graphically, that's been our approach. The graphics improve as we go, but the reality is that artists aren't cheap and a big part of the reason you do something like a Steam Early Access is to generate money so you can hire more artists and get things done more quickly. If rough animations or graphics ruin a game for you, I'd suggest you wait until closer to launch or post-launch.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Well that is the ONE positive way of looking at it.There is a down side it encourages a thousand of these wannabe triple A developers to pop up with NOTHING to lose but broken promises.
Now before i mention the game ,i want to say it does not mean good or bad but it does mean unpredictable.Look at Star Citizen,this team already had multiple Millions with not one single iota of promise,really almsot nothing to go on,so all that money came from what,there was nothing yet to base it on.
Sure over time that game MIGHT grow into what you had imagined but it still came from NOTHING,just talk.SO when a LARGE portion of those free hand outs are baseless,you cannot warrant the free hand out based on nothing it is silly.
Now if you want to support PROVEN material that you can actually see and perhaps even test FIRST,then yes i am 100% ok with that.However this is NOT what is happening,instead tons of devs playing with other people's money,living in their expensive houses making a living off other's money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You are confusing 'bashing' with criticism and feedback. I am not bashing the game in the slightest, I have absolutely no reason or interest in doing so. In fact the only reason I even wrote that post was to express a level of interest in the product, but I highlighted points which bothered me about the product as it is, in order to make sure they are noticed. If I or other people didn't care, we could have just not said anything and walked away while leaving the developers none the wiser. Alternatively, if the developers are not looking for feedback, they should have left the NDA in place.
As for making my own game, I have made two, however this was over 10 years ago and neither were massively multiplayer games. I'd happily make another game today but my life's path does not lead me to that any longer, and neither do I see it to be relevant to my capability of presenting feedback on other products. If feedback required a certificate granted exclusively from being within the same industry of the subject of the feedback, then we'd be living in a world with very little improvements happening.
I hope this makes my stance perfectly clear.
What is broken with the game that you feel it won't be released this year? Every system in the game seems to just have MINOR bugs for an alpha. The only consistent complaint I've seen people make is about graphic quality in general. Combat has been second, but it seems to be mainly by people who want the game to be FPS only. I agree that the devs should only go with one or the other, but the game, for me anyways, plays better in action mode due to having real LOS and I dislike managing 100s of hot keys and action mode streamlines this process pretty well IMO (once you understand momentum)
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I saw gameplay videos today for the first time and was really surprised how terrible everything looks and feels. They chasing depth neglecting things that can turn off a player immediately. Even fonts are horrendous and its not something that is hard to do well
Here is my personal opinion.
For something so niche I don't think we could hope for something that look much better. I am ok with it, I am enjoying it right now so I guess it can only gets better before release.
The highlighted paragraph above pretty much sums up my thoughts on this subject. I can't really agree more with this.
I'm even more surprised that the owner and other employees of this game would actually come to this site to read what people are saying about The Repopulation.
I applaud them for trying and I am supporting this game.
You say the game feels like pre-alpha and to me it looks like pre-alpha. All of these types of games sound good on paper just like Darkfall and Mortal Online. I have no idea why anybody would back these games after they show actual gameplay. The videos are always painful to watch.