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MMORPG influence in other games and genres

QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

I don't like it how the repetitive nature of MMORPGs along with some of the gameplay mechanics are seeping into other games. And I know why it is happening: People are seemingly happy with them and, by now, familiar with them.

Grinding, gathering materials, crafting, throw-away quests with hardly any story or background... Its a bummer. Setting up a large area with monsters waiting to be killed seems like lazy design to me. Is this "content" now?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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Comments

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

     

    I not sure if the OP can support his claim on numbers of games doing this.  Worse, not sure that calling repetition is exclusing to and original to mmorpgs.   Certainly mmorpgs didn't invent those things by a long shot.

    OP, you haven't made a good claim on this.  -1

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!

     

    If we are talking about a minority of games, and if you don't like it, it is easy to avoid. And so it should be a non-problem.

    Personally, i *like* the idea of games getting ideas from different genres, so the combination is new. But obviously that depends on if the resulting game is fun.

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

     

    I not sure if the OP can support his claim on numbers of games doing this.  Worse, not sure that calling repetition is exclusing to and original to mmorpgs.   Certainly mmorpgs didn't invent those things by a long shot.

    OP, you haven't made a good claim on this.  -1

    Take AI as an example. In an MMORPG, there isn't enough resources to make any fancy AI calculations server side and since AI calculations are a no-go on the client-side (for the moment), the AI is reduced to something very simple. And since there is no shortage of resources in a single player game to make advance AI calculations, why are the single player games still doing the same MMORPGs are doing?

    Other than being short on money or time, there's no reason not to have a better AI in single player games than in MMORPGs. So why is it still tank 'n' spank combat? -Because people have gotten used to this playing your standard holy trinity MMORPGs.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!

     

    If we are talking about a minority of games, and if you don't like it, it is easy to avoid. And so it should be a non-problem.

    Personally, i *like* the idea of games getting ideas from different genres, so the combination is new. But obviously that depends on if the resulting game is fun.

    I don't mind if games borrow good ideas from one another. Borrowing bad ideas on the otherhand... is bad.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,465

    Well, the good and bad of it for the bean counters is 'Does it make money?'.   Not whether this design works well.   They'll happily sell us Pong until we quite buying it.

     

    Until it's possible to make MMOs for lessor amounts of money, they'll continue to cast their net real, real wide, just to make back expenses.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I don't mind if games borrow good ideas from one another. Borrowing bad ideas on the otherhand... is bad.

    yeah .. but "good" or "bad" is subjective ... and if the games come out popular, all is good.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Well, the good and bad of it for the bean counters is 'Does it make money?'.   Not whether this design works well.   They'll happily sell us Pong until we quite buying it.

     

    Until it's possible to make MMOs for lessor amounts of money, they'll continue to cast their net real, real wide, just to make back expenses.

    Yeah ... but people won't buy games that aren't fun to them. You have to have some entertainment value to sell.

     

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I don't mind if games borrow good ideas from one another. Borrowing bad ideas on the otherhand... is bad.

    yeah .. but "good" or "bad" is subjective ... and if the games come out popular, all is good.

    And I'd disagree.  I think it is perfectly possible to be bad and popular.    Unless popular is the sole determinate of good. 

     

    But that way leads to trouble

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Well, the good and bad of it for the bean counters is 'Does it make money?'.   Not whether this design works well.   They'll happily sell us Pong until we quite buying it.

     

    Until it's possible to make MMOs for lessor amounts of money, they'll continue to cast their net real, real wide, just to make back expenses.

    Yeah ... but people won't buy games that aren't fun to them. You have to have some entertainment value to sell.

     

    You merely have to have games that bring in enough money to pay back the initial investment and keep the design team afloat.    If you can do that, at any level, you can continue on.    Having a good understanding of who you appeal to, and what their numbers might be, is a fundamental task of game development. 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698

    MMORPGs rubbing off in other genres. I am all for large worlds in any genre but not the grind really.

    Other genres rubbing off in MMORPGs.. Is bad all round. The RPG is disappearing in favor of more shallow features.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

     

    I not sure if the OP can support his claim on numbers of games doing this.  Worse, not sure that calling repetition is exclusing to and original to mmorpgs.   Certainly mmorpgs didn't invent those things by a long shot.

    OP, you haven't made a good claim on this.  -1

    Take AI as an example. In an MMORPG, there isn't enough resources to make any fancy AI calculations server side and since AI calculations are a no-go on the client-side (for the moment), the AI is reduced to something very simple. And since there is no shortage of resources in a single player game to make advance AI calculations, why are the single player games still doing the same MMORPGs are doing?

    Other than being short on money or time, there's no reason not to have a better AI in single player games than in MMORPGs. So why is it still tank 'n' spank combat? -Because people have gotten used to this playing your standard holy trinity MMORPGs.

    Actually there is another more pertinent reason for not having better AI.  You don't want AI that drives your players away from your game because it is too good.  Look at how trivialized many games are and wonder if you think it would be better with great AI?  Now I want you to look beyond what you want and look at if from the masses and the investors. 

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Well, the good and bad of it for the bean counters is 'Does it make money?'.   Not whether this design works well.   They'll happily sell us Pong until we quite buying it.

     

    Until it's possible to make MMOs for lessor amounts of money, they'll continue to cast their net real, real wide, just to make back expenses.

    Yeah ... but people won't buy games that aren't fun to them. You have to have some entertainment value to sell.

     

    You merely have to have games that bring in enough money to pay back the initial investment and keep the design team afloat.    If you can do that, at any level, you can continue on.    Having a good understanding of who you appeal to, and what their numbers might be, is a fundamental task of game development. 

    People have to want to continue to buy your products if you continue on, otherwise there is no point, that is the inherent flaw in your reasoning here. A company that makes bad products has an uphill battle in countering bad press/word of mouth. Teh only way to get past that is release games people want to play..Prime examples being Ubisoft, as well as EA.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • fineflufffinefluff Member RarePosts: 561
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.

    It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"

    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.

    And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.

     

    Nobody can find something fun before they try it. Someone can look at something and think that it could be fun. But fun needs to be experienced. Games selling a lot means a lot are looking for something fun and the games that sell the most copies are always the ones with the most advertising.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    i am noticed only others games genres influences in  mmorpg's ; action , shooter crap what is ruined mmorpg genre.
  • ArtificeVenatusArtificeVenatus Member UncommonPosts: 1,236
     
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I don't mind if games borrow good ideas from one another. Borrowing bad ideas on the otherhand... is bad.

    yeah .. but "good" or "bad" is subjective ... and if the games come out popular, all is good.

     

    That's interesting logic... A very 1-dimensional way of looking at things that encourages stagnation to the point of an industry collapse. Study the movie industry before, during, and after the release of titles such as Jaws and Star Wars (the originals) to see how such 1-dimensional thinking for "good" results in disaster for the industry.

    image
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    It's all part of the "mashification" of gaming genres. It can be interesting when a few games try to cross genres, but when the majority of games start doing it, it gets old real fast.It's all done in the name "sell more copies!"
    if it indeed sells more copies .. that mean more are finding it fun .. whether you do or not.And i doubt a majority of games are doing it. Very few single player games have MMO elements, although the reverse does not seem to be true.
    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!
    The "majority" statement was my fault :)

    I could be wrong, but I was trying to think if there are FPS games still made without some form of RPG (character building) involved. I don't play them, so I could very well be wrong :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785

    I know what you mean OP. When I popped in Far Cry 3 which was getting glowing reviews only to find myself having to gather mats to craft bags and stuff, I was really put off. I'm playing a shooter, why am I grinding boars?

  • ghorgosghorgos Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!

    but is that 2007 released edition of D&D realy that much infuenced by MMORPG's?

    I see the same issue here as with the column about MMO's hurting rpg's: You blame mmo's for things that happened in single player games before the rise of mmo's. It is far more an issue of the whole gaming industryand if there is a thing to blame for this influence than it is the profit-thinking and maybe console games to a certain degree.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I don't mind if games borrow good ideas from one another. Borrowing bad ideas on the otherhand... is bad.

    yeah .. but "good" or "bad" is subjective ... and if the games come out popular, all is good.

     

    That's interesting logic... A very 1-dimensional way of looking at things that encourages stagnation to the point of an industry collapse. Study the movie industry before, during, and after the release of titles such as Jaws and Star Wars (the originals) to see how such 1-dimensional thinking for "good" results in disaster for the industry.

    What disaster? After jaws and star wars, we have T2, jurassic park, and now all the marvel movies.

    So what stagnation? If it is stagnation, it won't be popular anymore, and won't be good.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     

     

    I could be wrong, but I was trying to think if there are FPS games still made without some form of RPG (character building) involved. I don't play them, so I could very well be wrong :)

    Of course. Wolftenstein New World Order is nothing but just a shooter.

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by ghorgos
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    So far, no one has said "majority of games are doing it". What I am saying is that an influence can be seen. Even in 4th edition D&D. A pen & paper RPG!

    but is that 2007 released edition of D&D realy that much infuenced by MMORPG's?

    I see the same issue here as with the column about MMO's hurting rpg's: You blame mmo's for things that happened in single player games before the rise of mmo's. It is far more an issue of the whole gaming industryand if there is a thing to blame for this influence than it is the profit-thinking and maybe console games to a certain degree.

     

    2007 was well after the "rise of MMOs".

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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