- Failure to craft a world. If there isn't a good heaping of PvE to go with the PvP, or if it's all just instanced then there are plenty of FPS / MOBA's to play already. MMOs need to be about a world.
- Full Loot. I understand there needs to be item loss, but that does not mean it needs to be every time you die.
Originally posted by DSWBeef Non consensual full loot pvp is an instant NOPE for me.
Then this game will be 100% not for you (and devs are fine since they want to be a niche game as they stated numerous times).
OT, my negative points are:
- no ffa pvp + full loot - f2p model - shitty tab targeting combat with 20 skills in the hotbar
What i want is a ffa seamless open world with full loot, with a great economy, trading and localized resources, sieges, but moreover i want different playstyles, not only the warrior way (pvp).
Atm, my big worry is the combat system, i really hope they go for an action system with active blocking (Mount & Blade or Darkfall).
Originally posted by DSWBeef Non consensual full loot pvp is an instant NOPE for me.
Then this game will be 100% not for you (and devs are fine since they want to be a niche game as they stated numerous times).
OT, my negative points are:
- no ffa pvp + full loot - f2p model - shitty tab targeting combat with 20 skills in the hotbar
What i want is a ffa seamless open world with full loot, with a great economy, trading and localized resources, sieges, but moreover i want different playstyles, not only the warrior way (pvp).
Atm, my big worry is the combat system, i really hope they go for an action system with active blocking (Mount & Blade or Darkfall).
They have 100% not said the game is nonconsensual full loot pvp.
Originally posted by caetftl They have 100% not said the game is nonconsensual full loot pvp.
But:
The very concept that players can and will lose their items at some point is required, otherwise the game loop breaks. It is a very controversial topic for those who dont like the potential of losing their items, and we understand that. But sometimes you have to embrace ideas that may not be popular at first glance, because they open up amazing areas of gameplay that are otherwise not accessible.
You can't lose you gear if there is consensual pvp amirite? And since is a pvp centered game is very odd if they make it consensual.
Game hopefully will be ffa pvp with full loot, the only system that allow constant supply and demand, a paradise for crafters and pve lovers expecially thanks to regional resources and the use of caravans (mentioned in the article).
However, the one thing that would turn me off is overblown hype about the game, without any solid details to back it up. If you make a great product, it will speak for itself much better than any marketing hype. You only need the marketing hype if your game is crap, and you are trying to cover it up.
Originally posted by caetftl They have 100% not said the game is nonconsensual full loot pvp.
But:
The very concept that players can and will lose their items at some point is required, otherwise the game loop breaks. It is a very controversial topic for those who don’t like the potential of losing their items, and we understand that. But sometimes you have to embrace ideas that may not be popular at first glance, because they open up amazing areas of gameplay that are otherwise not accessible.
You can't lose you gear if there is consensual pvp amirite? And since is a pvp centered game is very odd if they make it consensual.
Game hopefully will be ffa pvp with full loot, the only system that allow constant supply and demand, a paradise for crafters and pve lovers expecially thanks to regional resources and the use of caravans (mentioned in the article).
That does not say "omg you lose all your items to another player that has looted it all once they have killed you anywhere in the world because it is all open ffa pvp.
And what says consensual pvp could have no gear loss? Do people lose their money to consensual gambling? They've also said PvP is A major focus, not PvP is THE major focus...
Any form of P2W will kill my desire pretty quickly - for example creating 15 different item tiers then getting the player to gamble on 'chance for upgrade' items slot machine style.
However, the one thing that would turn me off is overblown hype about the game, without any solid details to back it up. If you make a great product, it will speak for itself much better than any marketing hype. You only need the marketing hype if your game is crap, and you are trying to cover it up.
Every mmorpg company markets to some degree, it's just a matter of the context in which they do so.
Look at the way blizzard markets their games...
Then compare it to the very indy-feeling mmo companies who often need to leave "breadcrumbs" to build up hype, instead of just flat out coming out and saying what their game is.
Marketing what your game actually is is fine... marketing by leaving things vague or ambiguous so that people's imaginations run wild is tacky.
Questing and team content thats not tested and working for teams. I hate joining friends for questing and it just does not flow. Should be fun teaming with your friends. IF working together slows you down, they did it wrong.
However, the one thing that would turn me off is overblown hype about the game, without any solid details to back it up. If you make a great product, it will speak for itself much better than any marketing hype. You only need the marketing hype if your game is crap, and you are trying to cover it up.
Every mmorpg company markets to some degree, it's just a matter of the context in which they do so.
Look at the way blizzard markets their games...
Then compare it to the very indy-feeling mmo companies who often need to leave "breadcrumbs" to build up hype, instead of just flat out coming out and saying what their game is.
Marketing what your game actually is is fine... marketing by leaving things vague or ambiguous so that people's imaginations run wild is tacky.
There is nothing wrong with marketing the game... what is wrong is marketing the hype. This is what P2P has done for years, and why the PC MMO market has had a change to F2P (i.e. let me see if you were honest before I pay). Any marketing that doesn't have solid visible gameplay to back it up is just a cover up, so that they can take people money without delivering.
I'm betting it'll be when it releases and falls short of just about every feature on their hypetrain laundry list. That'll be the moment when I officially say NO TY. Up until then, I'm sure it'll be the game of everyone's hope and dreams.
That seems to be how MMO's go these days.
"This is going to be the best game ever!"
"It's only Alpha, they're going to add X and Y and Z!"
"It's only Beta, plenty of time for changes!"
"Launch is still a week away, they've promised a miracle patch."
"OMG I love it, it's a breath of fresh air!"
2 weeks later
"Well if they had just done this and this and this and that, it would have been a great game. Thanks a lot Blizzard, you ruined the MMO industry. Also, you too Obama, for ruining stuffs."
Ignoring "this is broken/this is stupid" repeated commentary from Alpha/Beta/Pre-Release/InVogueNameOfTheWeek players.
If you won't change it, and can't or won't defend why you are doing X, then no. It's all about Dev fee-fees at that point, and it *always* ends badly. If they behave that way before release, they'll behave that way after release until they go away. I'll get off that roller-coaster before it starts moving.
Somewhat related - taking features off the table as an impending release date approaches. BZZZZZT. Nearly all of us peons know what THAT means nowadays, and I'll be happy to wait and see if they deliver or not. If it's a good game after all, Hooray! If not, I have plenty of other things to spend time doing.
TL;DR Don't pretend to care about player opinions, and don't lie. I can't fit my current interests into 24/7, I won't add yours.
Im not a carebear to pvp, nor am I a wuss to the thought of losing gear in pvp.
i just dont like the type of people attracted to this. Even in a non-loot pvp based game, it just brings out the worst in people. overly competitive and the game becomes just hunting players 24/7. not my thing.
Some people in this thread will be saying, "No thank you."
Some developer quotes.
2. We'll be posting some high level information about resources and territorial conquest in one of our updates next week. You'll definitely want to come back and read that, because it ties directly into your comments about harvesting/gathering.
Thanks!
Todd
ACE
More like Eve. the entire point of the first two illustrations is "this universe is not like WOW."
In fact: 99% of the time, when I say the words " not like a traditional MMO", I'm saying "not like WOW".
Todd
I will say: I have always felt like Shadowbane could have been an amazing game, if things had turned out differently. I don't want to turn this into a "things I wish I had done differently!" rant, so I won't. Instead I'll just say that I think the SB vision was (and remains, to this day) revolutionary and I think of this area of game design as a wild, untamed wilderness... teeming with mystery and just waiting to be explored.
I'm delighted to have a chance to hunt in these woods again.
Todd
ACE
People who are completely unreceptive of PvP aspects, but want to achieve everything won't get along with our game. That's fine, there are other games out there that cater to that audience.
Now, I'm not saying that absolutely everything is PvP focused and theres no way at all to avoid the terror that is human kind. But make no mistake, wether you're a fighter or a not, to get the most out of the game you'll likely have to deal with the ongoing threat of a knife in the back, an arrow to the knee, a hammer to the head... you get my point.
However, the one thing that would turn me off is overblown hype about the game, without any solid details to back it up. If you make a great product, it will speak for itself much better than any marketing hype. You only need the marketing hype if your game is crap, and you are trying to cover it up.
Every mmorpg company markets to some degree, it's just a matter of the context in which they do so.
Look at the way blizzard markets their games...
Then compare it to the very indy-feeling mmo companies who often need to leave "breadcrumbs" to build up hype, instead of just flat out coming out and saying what their game is.
Marketing what your game actually is is fine... marketing by leaving things vague or ambiguous so that people's imaginations run wild is tacky.
From what I heard, Cromfall will have PVP, siege, territorial conquests, deep crafting system, nice art concept.... so far they're music to my ears. A big NTY would be the world is not conductive to these game designs. Instanced, bad. Bland settings, bad. Small, bad. Lack of varieties, bad. Actually, boring gameplay would be just enough to say, "Okay....bye" even though you have to wait a few years to find out. Depressing, isn't it?
Comments
- Failure to craft a world. If there isn't a good heaping of PvE to go with the PvP, or if it's all just instanced then there are plenty of FPS / MOBA's to play already. MMOs need to be about a world.
- Full Loot. I understand there needs to be item loss, but that does not mean it needs to be every time you die.
- Cash Shop.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I don't understand. If you walk into something, knowing the circumstances, what's non-consensual about it?
Then this game will be 100% not for you (and devs are fine since they want to be a niche game as they stated numerous times).
OT, my negative points are:
- no ffa pvp + full loot
- f2p model
- shitty tab targeting combat with 20 skills in the hotbar
What i want is a ffa seamless open world with full loot, with a great economy, trading and localized resources, sieges, but moreover i want different playstyles, not only the warrior way (pvp).
Atm, my big worry is the combat system, i really hope they go for an action system with active blocking (Mount & Blade or Darkfall).
They have 100% not said the game is nonconsensual full loot pvp.
But:
You can't lose you gear if there is consensual pvp amirite? And since is a pvp centered game is very odd if they make it consensual.
Game hopefully will be ffa pvp with full loot, the only system that allow constant supply and demand, a paradise for crafters and pve lovers expecially thanks to regional resources and the use of caravans (mentioned in the article).
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Same here. B2P ok, SUB ok, F2P go to hell.
I really like the concept of the game....
However, the one thing that would turn me off is overblown hype about the game, without any solid details to back it up. If you make a great product, it will speak for itself much better than any marketing hype. You only need the marketing hype if your game is crap, and you are trying to cover it up.
That does not say "omg you lose all your items to another player that has looted it all once they have killed you anywhere in the world because it is all open ffa pvp.
And what says consensual pvp could have no gear loss? Do people lose their money to consensual gambling? They've also said PvP is A major focus, not PvP is THE major focus...
Any form of P2W will kill my desire pretty quickly - for example creating 15 different item tiers then getting the player to gamble on 'chance for upgrade' items slot machine style.
Every mmorpg company markets to some degree, it's just a matter of the context in which they do so.
Look at the way blizzard markets their games...
Then compare it to the very indy-feeling mmo companies who often need to leave "breadcrumbs" to build up hype, instead of just flat out coming out and saying what their game is.
Marketing what your game actually is is fine... marketing by leaving things vague or ambiguous so that people's imaginations run wild is tacky.
F2p, Cash shop, founders pack, etc: Anything that promotes this trend is of no interest to me.
I will say that I have never heard of the game, but plan to research it.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
There is nothing wrong with marketing the game... what is wrong is marketing the hype. This is what P2P has done for years, and why the PC MMO market has had a change to F2P (i.e. let me see if you were honest before I pay). Any marketing that doesn't have solid visible gameplay to back it up is just a cover up, so that they can take people money without delivering.
What will make me say "No TY" to Crowfall?
I'm betting it'll be when it releases and falls short of just about every feature on their hypetrain laundry list. That'll be the moment when I officially say NO TY. Up until then, I'm sure it'll be the game of everyone's hope and dreams.
That seems to be how MMO's go these days.
"This is going to be the best game ever!"
"It's only Alpha, they're going to add X and Y and Z!"
"It's only Beta, plenty of time for changes!"
"Launch is still a week away, they've promised a miracle patch."
"OMG I love it, it's a breath of fresh air!"
2 weeks later
"Well if they had just done this and this and this and that, it would have been a great game. Thanks a lot Blizzard, you ruined the MMO industry. Also, you too Obama, for ruining stuffs."
Ignoring "this is broken/this is stupid" repeated commentary from Alpha/Beta/Pre-Release/InVogueNameOfTheWeek players.
If you won't change it, and can't or won't defend why you are doing X, then no. It's all about Dev fee-fees at that point, and it *always* ends badly. If they behave that way before release, they'll behave that way after release until they go away. I'll get off that roller-coaster before it starts moving.
Somewhat related - taking features off the table as an impending release date approaches. BZZZZZT. Nearly all of us peons know what THAT means nowadays, and I'll be happy to wait and see if they deliver or not. If it's a good game after all, Hooray! If not, I have plenty of other things to spend time doing.
TL;DR Don't pretend to care about player opinions, and don't lie. I can't fit my current interests into 24/7, I won't add yours.
Avatars are people too
Im not a carebear to pvp, nor am I a wuss to the thought of losing gear in pvp.
i just dont like the type of people attracted to this. Even in a non-loot pvp based game, it just brings out the worst in people. overly competitive and the game becomes just hunting players 24/7. not my thing.
Some people in this thread will be saying, "No thank you."
Some developer quotes.
2. We'll be posting some high level information about resources and territorial conquest in one of our updates next week. You'll definitely want to come back and read that, because it ties directly into your comments about harvesting/gathering.
Thanks!
Todd
ACE
More like Eve. the entire point of the first two illustrations is "this universe is not like WOW."
In fact: 99% of the time, when I say the words " not like a traditional MMO", I'm saying "not like WOW".
Todd
I will say: I have always felt like Shadowbane could have been an amazing game, if things had turned out differently. I don't want to turn this into a "things I wish I had done differently!" rant, so I won't. Instead I'll just say that I think the SB vision was (and remains, to this day) revolutionary and I think of this area of game design as a wild, untamed wilderness... teeming with mystery and just waiting to be explored.
I'm delighted to have a chance to hunt in these woods again.
Todd
ACE
People who are completely unreceptive of PvP aspects, but want to achieve everything won't get along with our game. That's fine, there are other games out there that cater to that audience.
Now, I'm not saying that absolutely everything is PvP focused and theres no way at all to avoid the terror that is human kind. But make no mistake, wether you're a fighter or a not, to get the most out of the game you'll likely have to deal with the ongoing threat of a knife in the back, an arrow to the knee, a hammer to the head... you get my point.
Its more than tacky, its dishonest.
From what I heard, Cromfall will have PVP, siege, territorial conquests, deep crafting system, nice art concept.... so far they're music to my ears. A big NTY would be the world is not conductive to these game designs. Instanced, bad. Bland settings, bad. Small, bad. Lack of varieties, bad. Actually, boring gameplay would be just enough to say, "Okay....bye" even though you have to wait a few years to find out. Depressing, isn't it?