Originally posted by Gorwe I may be dense, but what are "specialisations"? Yknow, it is mentioned seperately from additional weapons...
Still vague to me too, but this is what I found. "Specialisations in Heart Of Thorns is a system that allows each profession to master a new specialisation, to grow it into a secondary profession. For example, Ranger's will be able to learn and master the abilities of the Druid in the jungle. They'll be able to grow themselves to become a Druid. When they become a Druid they'll unlock a whole new set of skills and weapon sets. "
With the informatiom we have so far it is hard to tell. They did mention that the mechanics would be different but the question is how much.
At worst you will gain a few skills and a new weapon, at best you can change from one class to a new one when you maxed out.
We really need more information about this.
This is just a guess, but I think what we can expect is the following:
New skill and class mechanic (the F-keys)
New trait line
New elite / heal skills (though I'm hoping there are significantly more utilities.
All that does effectively change how the class plays, but i'm betting it's not going to feel quite the same as playing a brand new class. I'm thinking everyone who is expecting specializations to feel like new classes, have a host of new weapons, or completely change how a class feels is probably going to be a bit dissapointed.
That said, I'm betting there will be at least 2 (if not 3) specializations per class. It wouldn't make much sense for there to be only one (as it wouldn't really be a choice), it would just be something everyone obtained, because it's the next thing to do.
Originally posted by kjempff AA system sound good, and more weapon types to use. The rest I don't care about. Though I had secretly hoped for some groundbreaking change that could make gw2 interesting for me to play, but ok I am not exactly the target audience, and why risk alienating your core players.
Ironically enough, the rest of the expansion is doing exactly what you're claiming you didn't find.
The masteries system alone is a game mechanic that has mostly been missing from games since the days of mega man. It probably still isn't the game for you, but there's a lot more there than I think some people are realizing.
Whatever it is you are looking for, I hope you find it.
Colin kept talking that one of the new things in an expansion will be hard group PvE. He said that during the presentation and after during the interview.
Besides that.. he was also talking how we will need specializations and masteries to conquere new group content. Maybe the new specializations will give players bigger roles in groups. For example druid will be a very support oriented profession?
It sounded similarly to jobs from FF XIV, where you have classes for solo and specialized jobs for group content.
Besides that I can't wait for guild halls and precursor crafting.
Edit. I also don't believe we will be waiting for the release very long. I expect to get it in the summer. Why? They said the story of the expansion starts right away when it ended 2 weeks ago. So that means until the expansion we will only get balance patches and stuff like that. I doubt they will leave the game without content updates for the next year.
I wonder if the specializations, if there are more than one choice and I really hope there are, will bring Trinity gameplay into GW2 in a stronger form. To me, this is where the game suffers and makes me not as invested as I could be. Perhaps, there might be 3 specializations for each class aimed at tanking, healing and/or support/dps. That would be the most fantastic addition to this game and I think I would make it my top MMO on my desktop next to ESO, WoW, Wildstar, Lotro and EQ2.
Sounds "nice" but I doubt it will change the view on GW 2 for big GW 1 fans like me.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Originally posted by elocke I wonder if the specializations, if there are more than one choice and I really hope there are, will bring Trinity gameplay into GW2 in a stronger form. To me, this is where the game suffers and makes me not as invested as I could be. Perhaps, there might be 3 specializations for each class aimed at tanking, healing and/or support/dps. That would be the most fantastic addition to this game and I think I would make it my top MMO on my desktop next to ESO, WoW, Wildstar, Lotro and EQ2.
If the trinity had been there, and the PvE generally stronger, then I would still be playing GW2 now without a doubt. Their focus was being an e-sports wannabe and general PvP though when I played... The PvE just felt like a tacked on afterthought.
GW2 is a game that I WANT to like, it just never delivered on the side of the game that I need to be great. I will be watching this expansion in the hope that it can do so now.
Originally posted by bcbully All classes get to use one other weapon, 1 elite skill, 1 heal, and couple utilities. I'm kinda disappointed here. The lack of player customization/skills is what turned me off GW2 to begin with. I was hoping for a lot more here. Especially because this will be all you get for 2 1/2 years or so...
Disagree with you almost all the time on most everything you post but sadly this is one time I agree with you. I had high hopes for a proper Hybrid Class with Revenant but it sounds more like its going to be some kind of Temp Pet class like the DAoC Theurgist. Maybe the 2H Sword Necromancer can play more like a proper Hybrid Class.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by Sukiyaki Lets all hope specialization will not devolve the game into the direction of brainless "trinity" gameplay and force player into a primitive set of oversimplified roles just to succumb to whining WoW kids and lazy minded selfproclaimed "casual gamer" aka baddies.
Yeah, you've got some issues. Anyway, if the specializations allow for Trinity play, making the dungeons worth running finally, then you shouldn't have an issue as they'll allow you to keep your weird no-role gameplay and allow me to pick an actual role to fulfill. In other words more options so that we can both be happy. No "forcing" , at least from what I can see, which isn't much right now, of HAVING to pick a specialization. But keep up with your anti trinity platform, it's working so well for the game, not.
I find the lack of a role "brainless" as you put it. Every group encounter becomes a free for all and chaotic. No order or distinct way to help your party members other than throwing down heals on yourself and hoping you can take a hit like a tank at the same time. It's not fun, it's just lazy design.
I'm talking strictly PVE here by the way as I find the chaotic one man army aspect of the game's current class design fits PVP much better. Although, it would still be nice to have healers in the back helping out as support in a more specific nature, but it's ok as is.
Originally posted by bcbully All classes get to use one other weapon, 1 elite skill, 1 heal, and couple utilities. I'm kinda disappointed here. The lack of player customization/skills is what turned me off GW2 to begin with. I was hoping for a lot more here. Especially because this will be all you get for 2 1/2 years or so...
Disagree with you almost all the time on most everything you post but sadly this is one time I agree with you. I had high hopes for a proper Hybrid Class with Revenant but it sounds more like its going to be some kind of Temp Pet class like the DAoC Theurgist. Maybe the 2H Sword Necromancer can play more like a proper Hybrid Class.
Tbh the Revenant to me sounds like more of a cross between the Dervish & Ritualists of GW1.
They may have a few pets (not unlike guardian spirit weapons, or engie turrets), but I'm betting those are going to be utilities. I'm thinking the bulk of their kit is conjuring the essences of certain legends (think elementalist attunements) and gaining different skills depending on what they currently have evoked.
What puzzles me is the complaints bully has of 'lack of customization' in GW2. When you actually compare it to nearly every other MMO the level of customization is actually fairly insane. What's getting me is why the game doesn't have a method to actually save your customizations yet.
Originally posted by Sukiyaki Lets all hope specialization will not devolve the game into the direction of brainless "trinity" gameplay and force player into a primitive set of oversimplified roles just to succumb to whining WoW kids and lazy minded selfproclaimed "casual gamer" aka baddies.
Yeah, you've got some issues. Anyway, if the specializations allow for Trinity play, making the dungeons worth running finally, then you shouldn't have an issue as they'll allow you to keep your weird no-role gameplay and allow me to pick an actual role to fulfill. In other words more options so that we can both be happy. No "forcing" , at least from what I can see, which isn't much right now, of HAVING to pick a specialization. But keep up with your anti trinity platform, it's working so well for the game, not.
I find the lack of a role "brainless" as you put it. Every group encounter becomes a free for all and chaotic. No order or distinct way to help your party members other than throwing down heals on yourself and hoping you can take a hit like a tank at the same time. It's not fun, it's just lazy design.
I'm talking strictly PVE here by the way as I find the chaotic one man army aspect of the game's current class design fits PVP much better. Although, it would still be nice to have healers in the back helping out as support in a more specific nature, but it's ok as is.
If specialization of classes means the inclusion of the trinity I might pick this game up again.
Honestly, if trinity gameplay got introduced into this game, it would be the end of it.
Trinity gameplay goes against the very foundations of GW2. It's principles clash with what the trinity has become, and it is for this reason that the game does not have one. At least not the traditional trinity (not going to get into another semantics argument).
While trinity gameplay is comfortable, I much prefer the strategy behind figuring out what skills for your group to bring collectively. Being able to pick up the slack a bit if someone on your team dies is also very refreshing. As is not having to wait for an hour because there aren't good enough healers or tanks online atm.
The flexibility that not having a trinity brings to the game is actually one of it's strengths. It's a shame some people can't see that.
Originally posted by Sukiyaki Lets all hope specialization will not devolve the game into the direction of brainless "trinity" gameplay and force player into a primitive set of oversimplified roles just to succumb to whining WoW kids and lazy minded selfproclaimed "casual gamer" aka baddies.
Yeah, you've got some issues. Anyway, if the specializations allow for Trinity play, making the dungeons worth running finally, then you shouldn't have an issue as they'll allow you to keep your weird no-role gameplay and allow me to pick an actual role to fulfill. In other words more options so that we can both be happy. No "forcing" , at least from what I can see, which isn't much right now, of HAVING to pick a specialization. But keep up with your anti trinity platform, it's working so well for the game, not.
I find the lack of a role "brainless" as you put it. Every group encounter becomes a free for all and chaotic. No order or distinct way to help your party members other than throwing down heals on yourself and hoping you can take a hit like a tank at the same time. It's not fun, it's just lazy design.
I'm talking strictly PVE here by the way as I find the chaotic one man army aspect of the game's current class design fits PVP much better. Although, it would still be nice to have healers in the back helping out as support in a more specific nature, but it's ok as is.
If specialization of classes means the inclusion of the trinity I might pick this game up again.
Honestly, if trinity gameplay got introduced into this game, it would be the end of it.
Trinity gameplay goes against the very foundations of GW2. It's principles clash with what the trinity has become, and it is for this reason that the game does not have one. At least not the traditional trinity (not going to get into another semantics argument).
While trinity gameplay is comfortable, I much prefer the strategy behind figuring out what skills for your group to bring collectively. Being able to pick up the slack a bit if someone on your team dies is also very refreshing. As is not having to wait for an hour because there aren't good enough healers or tanks online atm.
The flexibility that not having a trinity brings to the game is actually one of it's strengths. It's a shame some people can't see that.
Well sorry but I don't it just seems like a every man for himself aggro all over the place chaotic mess. The trinity has more of a group dynamic and order that makes you work together more as a group in my opinion.
Agreed. It's not a matter of not "seeing that" as I've played guardian and Mesmer to cap and have played many characters to cap in other MMOs and trinity gameplay just made group content feel better on all fronts. Doing group content, like dungeons, in GW2 just feels chaotic, all over the place and luck of the draw and wasn't fun by any stretch. They also don't have to change the core game, just give those of us who want more specific roleplay the option to do so while still allowing those who like non trinity to keep what they have. This is what I'm hoping specializations are, as I've been reading the "rumours" over on the GW2 forums that choosing specializations isn't permanent and you can change back to what you are used to. Again, just rumours, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Originally posted by bcbully All classes get to use one other weapon, 1 elite skill, 1 heal, and couple utilities. I'm kinda disappointed here. The lack of player customization/skills is what turned me off GW2 to begin with. I was hoping for a lot more here. Especially because this will be all you get for 2 1/2 years or so...
Disagree with you almost all the time on most everything you post but sadly this is one time I agree with you. I had high hopes for a proper Hybrid Class with Revenant but it sounds more like its going to be some kind of Temp Pet class like the DAoC Theurgist. Maybe the 2H Sword Necromancer can play more like a proper Hybrid Class.
Tbh the Revenant to me sounds like more of a cross between the Dervish & Ritualists of GW1.
They may have a few pets (not unlike guardian spirit weapons, or engie turrets), but I'm betting those are going to be utilities. I'm thinking the bulk of their kit is conjuring the essences of certain legends (think elementalist attunements) and gaining different skills depending on what they currently have evoked.
What puzzles me is the complaints bully has of 'lack of customization' in GW2. When you actually compare it to nearly every other MMO the level of customization is actually fairly insane. What's getting me is why the game doesn't have a method to actually save your customizations yet.
I just went back to look at a skill calculator for my Necro. Here was my problem. Main hand dagger, scepter, axes - 3 skills for each. The first skill for each is a basic strike. Strike 1 once, strike twice, strike 3 times, very similar. Off hand dagger, focus, warhorn. 2 skills each. Or I could use a staff that took up all 5 skills. 3 ground target circles and a basic strike attack similar to the other 3 mentioned above.
If I ran dagger main plus w/e and staff for a swap, I would naturally pick traits to buff those weapons. By the time I quit I had played every combination in every way. That took me about 3/12 to four weeks. That was when I realized that this is what I was going to be stuck with forever unless I rerolled.
I had always wished that each weapon had more slotable skills. Instead of main hand dagger being the same 3 attacks, I wished that main hand dagger would give a choice of maybe 3 skiills per slot that I could slot. There simply were not many ways to tailor my character to my play style.
I just went back to look at a skill calculator for my Necro. Here was my problem. Main hand dagger, scepter, axes - 3 skills for each. The first skill for each is a basic strike. Strike 1 once, strike twice, strike 3 times, very similar. Off hand dagger, focus, warhorn. 2 skills each. Or I could use a staff that took up all 5 skills. 3 ground target circles and a basic strike attack similar to the other 3 mentioned above.
If I ran dagger main plus w/e and staff for a swap, I would naturally pick traits to buff those weapons. By the time I quit I had played every combination in every way. That took me about 3/12 to four weeks. That was when I realized that this is what I was going to be stuck with forever unless I rerolled.
I had always wished that each weapon had more slotable skills. Instead of main hand dagger being the same 3 attacks, I wished that main hand dagger would give a choice of maybe 3 skiills per slot that I could slot. There simply were not many ways to tailor my character to my play style.
That's certainly one way to play the class.
Tbh none of the top necro builds atm work that way, though. Most atm work off of deathshround, and the weapons you choose are either there to give you life force, or to give you extra utility / damage in between shrouds. There's also minion master specs, which work primarily off your utility skills, well specs that work primarily around those utilities, condi specs which work mostly off buffing your condition damage, blind specs (especially chilling darkness) which work primarilly off debuffing / hindering enemies.
There's a lot of different ways you can focus a class, and that doesn't even get into stats / runes / sigils. Compare that to most other MMOs, and you really only have a few specs to choose from. It's especially bad once you start looking at the WoW clones.
- It is a matter of perspective, but the customization is there. It's just a matter of if it appeals to you in the same way as a class tree does, or a talent tree.
Well sorry but I don't it just seems like a every man for himself aggro all over the place chaotic mess. The trinity has more of a group dynamic and order that makes you work together more as a group in my opinion.
Agreed. It's not a matter of not "seeing that" as I've played guardian and Mesmer to cap and have played many characters to cap in other MMOs and trinity gameplay just made group content feel better on all fronts. Doing group content, like dungeons, in GW2 just feels chaotic, all over the place and luck of the draw and wasn't fun by any stretch. They also don't have to change the core game, just give those of us who want more specific roleplay the option to do so while still allowing those who like non trinity to keep what they have. This is what I'm hoping specializations are, as I've been reading the "rumours" over on the GW2 forums that choosing specializations isn't permanent and you can change back to what you are used to. Again, just rumours, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Here's the thing:
Trinity gameplay = incredibly easy to understand. It is essentially group combat in it's most simplistic form. It works, because there is no complexity to it. It's basic.
GW2's combat may seem like a chaotic mess, until you start playing w/ people who are organized, who understand how the game works, or who coordinate. Not unlike how actual combat is. Believe it or not there is a system to aggro in GW2, and understanding how this works does help, and differs for certain fights. For example, in the Mai fight (sky pirates) she will always target the person furthest from her, use a shadow shot to teleport to that person, and try and blow them up w/ a combo.
Once you understand that, you can strategize how to beat it, or how to manipulate the circumstances to avoid such a mechanic. There are examples of this for most fights in the game. There are ways to tank in the game, there are also ways to manipulate enemies into positions that result in them getting slaughtered easily. There are tricks for most every fight to make fights easier or harder, and i'm not even talking about exploits. It's also been shown that most fights in the game can be soloed by a skilled enough player.
That said, there are fights like The Shatterer, which are mind numbingly dull, and I'm not going to pretend like Anet is the best company at making PvE content ever. But there is a pretty big difference between a poorly designed boss encounter, and an entire class dynamic not working. There are numerous PvE fights in the game that are actually done really well, that are challenging, that encourage group-coordination and strategy, and that can turn into a chaotic mess if you don't go into them prepared. Much in the same way as a traditional raid can be an absolute cluster FK if your group just waltzes in there with zero clue as to how to handle the engagement or it's mechanics.
If you doubt this, then fire up GW2, and look into joining a TTS run. Oh, and make sure you have Teamspeak.
I just went back to look at a skill calculator for my Necro. Here was my problem. Main hand dagger, scepter, axes - 3 skills for each. The first skill for each is a basic strike. Strike 1 once, strike twice, strike 3 times, very similar. Off hand dagger, focus, warhorn. 2 skills each. Or I could use a staff that took up all 5 skills. 3 ground target circles and a basic strike attack similar to the other 3 mentioned above.
If I ran dagger main plus w/e and staff for a swap, I would naturally pick traits to buff those weapons. By the time I quit I had played every combination in every way. That took me about 3/12 to four weeks. That was when I realized that this is what I was going to be stuck with forever unless I rerolled.
I had always wished that each weapon had more slotable skills. Instead of main hand dagger being the same 3 attacks, I wished that main hand dagger would give a choice of maybe 3 skiills per slot that I could slot. There simply were not many ways to tailor my character to my play style.
That's certainly one way to play the class.
Tbh none of the top necro builds atm work that way, though. Most atm work off of deathshround, and the weapons you choose are either there to give you life force, or to give you extra utility / damage in between shrouds. There's also minion master specs, which work primarily off your utility skills, well specs that work primarily around those utilities, condi specs which work mostly off buffing your condition damage, blind specs (especially chilling darkness) which work primarilly off debuffing / hindering enemies.
There's a lot of different ways you can focus a class, and that doesn't even get into stats / runes / sigils. Compare that to most other MMOs, and you really only have a few specs to choose from. It's especially bad once you start looking at the WoW clones.
I played death shroud first. It was the most warlockish of the builds. Then I played minion master. I played a condition build also, thus the staff. Circle circle circle, blow them up and spread. This does not change your weapons attacks though.
When I left GW2 I bought Pandaland... Something I said I would never do after leaving during Cata. The thing that was most striking after being away for nearly a year, was that in WoW I had 25+ abilities available to me at one time. I used all of them. I had far more choice for different situations. WoW is wow though I left never to return after about the same amount of time spent in GW2.
I fully aware that this is my opinion and my problems with GW2. You may not feel the same way and that's fine. I was hoping this expansion gave more options for weapon attacks.
Tbh none of the top necro builds atm work that way, though. Most atm work off of deathshround, and the weapons you choose are either there to give you life force, or to give you extra utility / damage in between shrouds. There's also minion master specs, which work primarily off your utility skills, well specs that work primarily around those utilities, condi specs which work mostly off buffing your condition damage, blind specs (especially chilling darkness) which work primarilly off debuffing / hindering enemies.
There's a lot of different ways you can focus a class, and that doesn't even get into stats / runes / sigils. Compare that to most other MMOs, and you really only have a few specs to choose from. It's especially bad once you start looking at the WoW clones.
I played death shroud first. It was the most warlockish of the builds. Then I played minion master. I played a condition build also, thus the staff. Circle circle circle, blow them up and spread. This does not change your weapons attacks though.
When I left GW2 I bought Pandaland... Something I said I would never do after leaving during Cata. The thing that was most striking after being away for nearly a year, was that in WoW I had 25+ abilities available to me at one time. I used all of them. I had far more choice for different situations. WoW is wow though I left never to return after about the same amount of time spent in GW2.
I think this is where the matter of perspective / preference comes into play.
In WoW you most definitely have more skills, for sure. But imho you have less choice, by far. While it's true you get to use 25+ abilities, you are also using most of those 25+ abilities all the time. Even before the talent rework the game wasn't that complex really. If you wanted to play a mage there were essentially 3 specs. One of them was garbage, the other was decent (but better for PvE) and the other was good (better for PvP). Those were your options. If I were to reinstall warlords today, I would essentially have the same set of choices today. I'd have a couple new skills, which is neat, but my playstyle doesn't really change.
By contrast, if I were to play my necro in GW2 right now, there are at least a dozen ways I could set him up that would be viable for various things. The playstyles still change, even if there is a lot of overlap between weapons. Even in using the staff there are multiple ways to use that weapon. Same skills, different purpose, different results. You can use it for the utility, for the damage, for the conditions. You never really get that kind of flexibility in WoW. There's a little bit with the talent rework, but it's still very minor. It's not much different than choosing which heal & elite to use.
Wow undoubtedly has significantly more skills per class, but they are all single-purpose. There is little versatility outside of choosing from a couple viable builds. There are also quite a few skills that are not combat oriented (summoning mounts, etc.) that help to pad that number. The focus on WoW is more on choose your talent tree to focus on, and less on choosing what skills work for the job at hand. Because the answer is basically the same in every fight. You're spec X, Y, or Z, so use rotation X, Y, or Z. Here is your 'oh sh@(' skill, here is your CC break, here is your CC skill. Have fun.
Some interesting features in there, including guild halls that I was hoping for at release. Not sure if it will be enough for me to come back, but will keep an eye on this.
Comments
This is just a guess, but I think what we can expect is the following:
New skill and class mechanic (the F-keys)
New trait line
New elite / heal skills (though I'm hoping there are significantly more utilities.
All that does effectively change how the class plays, but i'm betting it's not going to feel quite the same as playing a brand new class. I'm thinking everyone who is expecting specializations to feel like new classes, have a host of new weapons, or completely change how a class feels is probably going to be a bit dissapointed.
That said, I'm betting there will be at least 2 (if not 3) specializations per class. It wouldn't make much sense for there to be only one (as it wouldn't really be a choice), it would just be something everyone obtained, because it's the next thing to do.
Ironically enough, the rest of the expansion is doing exactly what you're claiming you didn't find.
The masteries system alone is a game mechanic that has mostly been missing from games since the days of mega man. It probably still isn't the game for you, but there's a lot more there than I think some people are realizing.
Whatever it is you are looking for, I hope you find it.
I have to say I'm a little bit excited.
Colin kept talking that one of the new things in an expansion will be hard group PvE. He said that during the presentation and after during the interview.
Besides that.. he was also talking how we will need specializations and masteries to conquere new group content. Maybe the new specializations will give players bigger roles in groups. For example druid will be a very support oriented profession?
It sounded similarly to jobs from FF XIV, where you have classes for solo and specialized jobs for group content.
Besides that I can't wait for guild halls and precursor crafting.
Edit. I also don't believe we will be waiting for the release very long. I expect to get it in the summer. Why? They said the story of the expansion starts right away when it ended 2 weeks ago. So that means until the expansion we will only get balance patches and stuff like that. I doubt they will leave the game without content updates for the next year.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
If the trinity had been there, and the PvE generally stronger, then I would still be playing GW2 now without a doubt. Their focus was being an e-sports wannabe and general PvP though when I played... The PvE just felt like a tacked on afterthought.
GW2 is a game that I WANT to like, it just never delivered on the side of the game that I need to be great. I will be watching this expansion in the hope that it can do so now.
Disagree with you almost all the time on most everything you post but sadly this is one time I agree with you. I had high hopes for a proper Hybrid Class with Revenant but it sounds more like its going to be some kind of Temp Pet class like the DAoC Theurgist. Maybe the 2H Sword Necromancer can play more like a proper Hybrid Class.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Yeah, you've got some issues. Anyway, if the specializations allow for Trinity play, making the dungeons worth running finally, then you shouldn't have an issue as they'll allow you to keep your weird no-role gameplay and allow me to pick an actual role to fulfill. In other words more options so that we can both be happy. No "forcing" , at least from what I can see, which isn't much right now, of HAVING to pick a specialization. But keep up with your anti trinity platform, it's working so well for the game, not.
I find the lack of a role "brainless" as you put it. Every group encounter becomes a free for all and chaotic. No order or distinct way to help your party members other than throwing down heals on yourself and hoping you can take a hit like a tank at the same time. It's not fun, it's just lazy design.
I'm talking strictly PVE here by the way as I find the chaotic one man army aspect of the game's current class design fits PVP much better. Although, it would still be nice to have healers in the back helping out as support in a more specific nature, but it's ok as is.
Tbh the Revenant to me sounds like more of a cross between the Dervish & Ritualists of GW1.
They may have a few pets (not unlike guardian spirit weapons, or engie turrets), but I'm betting those are going to be utilities. I'm thinking the bulk of their kit is conjuring the essences of certain legends (think elementalist attunements) and gaining different skills depending on what they currently have evoked.
What puzzles me is the complaints bully has of 'lack of customization' in GW2. When you actually compare it to nearly every other MMO the level of customization is actually fairly insane. What's getting me is why the game doesn't have a method to actually save your customizations yet.
Honestly, if trinity gameplay got introduced into this game, it would be the end of it.
Trinity gameplay goes against the very foundations of GW2. It's principles clash with what the trinity has become, and it is for this reason that the game does not have one. At least not the traditional trinity (not going to get into another semantics argument).
While trinity gameplay is comfortable, I much prefer the strategy behind figuring out what skills for your group to bring collectively. Being able to pick up the slack a bit if someone on your team dies is also very refreshing. As is not having to wait for an hour because there aren't good enough healers or tanks online atm.
The flexibility that not having a trinity brings to the game is actually one of it's strengths. It's a shame some people can't see that.
Agreed. It's not a matter of not "seeing that" as I've played guardian and Mesmer to cap and have played many characters to cap in other MMOs and trinity gameplay just made group content feel better on all fronts. Doing group content, like dungeons, in GW2 just feels chaotic, all over the place and luck of the draw and wasn't fun by any stretch. They also don't have to change the core game, just give those of us who want more specific roleplay the option to do so while still allowing those who like non trinity to keep what they have. This is what I'm hoping specializations are, as I've been reading the "rumours" over on the GW2 forums that choosing specializations isn't permanent and you can change back to what you are used to. Again, just rumours, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.
I just went back to look at a skill calculator for my Necro. Here was my problem. Main hand dagger, scepter, axes - 3 skills for each. The first skill for each is a basic strike. Strike 1 once, strike twice, strike 3 times, very similar. Off hand dagger, focus, warhorn. 2 skills each. Or I could use a staff that took up all 5 skills. 3 ground target circles and a basic strike attack similar to the other 3 mentioned above.
If I ran dagger main plus w/e and staff for a swap, I would naturally pick traits to buff those weapons. By the time I quit I had played every combination in every way. That took me about 3/12 to four weeks. That was when I realized that this is what I was going to be stuck with forever unless I rerolled.
I had always wished that each weapon had more slotable skills. Instead of main hand dagger being the same 3 attacks, I wished that main hand dagger would give a choice of maybe 3 skiills per slot that I could slot. There simply were not many ways to tailor my character to my play style.
That's certainly one way to play the class.
Tbh none of the top necro builds atm work that way, though. Most atm work off of deathshround, and the weapons you choose are either there to give you life force, or to give you extra utility / damage in between shrouds. There's also minion master specs, which work primarily off your utility skills, well specs that work primarily around those utilities, condi specs which work mostly off buffing your condition damage, blind specs (especially chilling darkness) which work primarilly off debuffing / hindering enemies.
There's a lot of different ways you can focus a class, and that doesn't even get into stats / runes / sigils. Compare that to most other MMOs, and you really only have a few specs to choose from. It's especially bad once you start looking at the WoW clones.
- It is a matter of perspective, but the customization is there. It's just a matter of if it appeals to you in the same way as a class tree does, or a talent tree.
Here's the thing:
Trinity gameplay = incredibly easy to understand. It is essentially group combat in it's most simplistic form. It works, because there is no complexity to it. It's basic.
GW2's combat may seem like a chaotic mess, until you start playing w/ people who are organized, who understand how the game works, or who coordinate. Not unlike how actual combat is. Believe it or not there is a system to aggro in GW2, and understanding how this works does help, and differs for certain fights. For example, in the Mai fight (sky pirates) she will always target the person furthest from her, use a shadow shot to teleport to that person, and try and blow them up w/ a combo.
Once you understand that, you can strategize how to beat it, or how to manipulate the circumstances to avoid such a mechanic. There are examples of this for most fights in the game. There are ways to tank in the game, there are also ways to manipulate enemies into positions that result in them getting slaughtered easily. There are tricks for most every fight to make fights easier or harder, and i'm not even talking about exploits. It's also been shown that most fights in the game can be soloed by a skilled enough player.
That said, there are fights like The Shatterer, which are mind numbingly dull, and I'm not going to pretend like Anet is the best company at making PvE content ever. But there is a pretty big difference between a poorly designed boss encounter, and an entire class dynamic not working. There are numerous PvE fights in the game that are actually done really well, that are challenging, that encourage group-coordination and strategy, and that can turn into a chaotic mess if you don't go into them prepared. Much in the same way as a traditional raid can be an absolute cluster FK if your group just waltzes in there with zero clue as to how to handle the engagement or it's mechanics.
If you doubt this, then fire up GW2, and look into joining a TTS run. Oh, and make sure you have Teamspeak.
I played death shroud first. It was the most warlockish of the builds. Then I played minion master. I played a condition build also, thus the staff. Circle circle circle, blow them up and spread. This does not change your weapons attacks though.
When I left GW2 I bought Pandaland... Something I said I would never do after leaving during Cata. The thing that was most striking after being away for nearly a year, was that in WoW I had 25+ abilities available to me at one time. I used all of them. I had far more choice for different situations. WoW is wow though I left never to return after about the same amount of time spent in GW2.
I fully aware that this is my opinion and my problems with GW2. You may not feel the same way and that's fine. I was hoping this expansion gave more options for weapon attacks.
I think this is where the matter of perspective / preference comes into play.
In WoW you most definitely have more skills, for sure. But imho you have less choice, by far. While it's true you get to use 25+ abilities, you are also using most of those 25+ abilities all the time. Even before the talent rework the game wasn't that complex really. If you wanted to play a mage there were essentially 3 specs. One of them was garbage, the other was decent (but better for PvE) and the other was good (better for PvP). Those were your options. If I were to reinstall warlords today, I would essentially have the same set of choices today. I'd have a couple new skills, which is neat, but my playstyle doesn't really change.
By contrast, if I were to play my necro in GW2 right now, there are at least a dozen ways I could set him up that would be viable for various things. The playstyles still change, even if there is a lot of overlap between weapons. Even in using the staff there are multiple ways to use that weapon. Same skills, different purpose, different results. You can use it for the utility, for the damage, for the conditions. You never really get that kind of flexibility in WoW. There's a little bit with the talent rework, but it's still very minor. It's not much different than choosing which heal & elite to use.
Wow undoubtedly has significantly more skills per class, but they are all single-purpose. There is little versatility outside of choosing from a couple viable builds. There are also quite a few skills that are not combat oriented (summoning mounts, etc.) that help to pad that number. The focus on WoW is more on choose your talent tree to focus on, and less on choosing what skills work for the job at hand. Because the answer is basically the same in every fight. You're spec X, Y, or Z, so use rotation X, Y, or Z. Here is your 'oh sh@(' skill, here is your CC break, here is your CC skill. Have fun.