Originally posted by Bladestrom personally, its not WOW, its the greed of blizzard. investing 10% or so of your monthly sub back into the game and absorbing the rest as pure profit is nasty.
and you cam up with those numbers right out of your ass?
or do you have any stats to back them up?
people hate it when things go mainstream, those new hippster generation needs something "cool" and "unique", and wow stopped being unique when everyone copied it, that's when the rest of the world (but those copying it) started to hate it.
if you hate WoW you most likely don't like MMOs. it's pretty simple
Sure he pulled those numbers out of his ass, but he has a point. When you compare the amount of new content FFXIV gets to the amount of new content WoW gets, then consider that FFXIV has a small fraction of WoW's subscriber base then there are really only three possibilities:
1) Blizzard Pockets almost all of your subscription fees.
2) SE is taking a loss on FFXIV and borrowing money to pay for new content.
3) The skill gap between the people working on WoW and the people working on FFXIV is so large that the FFXIV team can put out a comparable if not superior amount content with a much smaller team.
Yup ^^. Re figures out of my ass, it's not that hard to guesstimate, simply look at blizzards balance sheet. FFXIV and ESO are good examples of investment ratios that put blizzard to shame.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
People won't like it but WoW moved with the times and appealed to a younger playerbase that have different interests then we did 10 years, i.e. quick casual group play, very much intune with the rise of the MOBAs we have now.
Expecting a company to appeal to you, when you've changed in the 10 years the games been around, is just bizzare.
While these figures were from 2008. The subscribers havent changed that much since then. They were getting a revenue of 1 billion a year. And there was also another Article stating they only had paid out 200m in the 4 years 2004-2008 for upkeep cost (equipment/payroll/etc) so its pretty easy to guess they are easily profiting around 600ish~ million a year.
And no. They aren't "pocketing" this money. If that was the only thing Blizzard spent their money on then yes they would be pocketing that money. But they are constantly developing new games and even making a movie. Blizzard is one of the few companies that know how to stay in business and keep making quality products. Everyone assumes they are greedy but thats just how business works, otherwise they wouldnt even be around anymore. I mean hell they even combined with activision to keep them alive for gamers. If it werent for that then all these call of duty fans would be stuck with whatever game came out last before the merger.
People won't like it but WoW moved with the times and appealed to a younger playerbase that have different interests then we did 10 years, i.e. quick casual group play, very much intune with the rise of the MOBAs we have now.
Expecting a company to appeal to you, when you've changed in the 10 years the games been around, is just bizzare.
Except the bulk of their player base is 30+ something adults.
While these figures were from 2008. The subscribers havent changed that much since then. They were getting a revenue of 1 billion a year. And there was also another Article stating they only had paid out 200m in the 4 years 2004-2008 for upkeep cost (equipment/payroll/etc) so its pretty easy to guess they are easily profiting around 600ish~ million a year.
And no. They aren't "pocketing" this money. If that was the only thing Blizzard spent their money on then yes they would be pocketing that money. But they are constantly developing new games and even making a movie. Blizzard is one of the few companies that know how to stay in business and keep making quality products. Everyone assumes they are greedy but thats just how business works, otherwise they wouldnt even be around anymore. I mean hell they even combined with activision to keep them alive for gamers. If it werent for that then all these call of duty fans would be stuck with whatever game came out last before the merger.
Both true, and not true. I always suspected the 12 months WoW went with no new content went to fund the 500 million they put into Destiny. The problem is I'm not the least bit interested in Destiny. In fact I'm not impressed with any of the new games Blizzard has put out in the last 10 years so while they aren't technically pocketing my subscription feethey might as well be.
People won't like it but WoW moved with the times and appealed to a younger playerbase that have different interests then we did 10 years, i.e. quick casual group play, very much intune with the rise of the MOBAs we have now.
Expecting a company to appeal to you, when you've changed in the 10 years the games been around, is just bizzare.
Except the bulk of their player base is 30+ something adults.
The casualization of WoW is more about catering to adults than it is to appealing to teenagers. It's not the 17 year-old in highschool that wants quick casual play it's the 30 something with two kids and a full time job that only has time for that kind of content now.
WoW is in top 3 of my list of the best games of all times.
..or it was during vanilla and TBC. I don't hate WoW for what it is, and i have got over the fact it doesn't cater to my preferences anymore.
But i hate there once was an awesome game, which i can't play anymore - not even as abandon ware.
This is how I feel and believe most do. They took the game I love and made it in to something else. All my time invested feels a waste.
This ^
It was so much fun even in TBC. But before TBC came out they promis the players that the LFG tool would come out to help us reduce the time to wait for grouping but that they would not nerf the game at all. eg : xp needed to level up, no extra rested bonus added on the existing one, not nerf the mobs and increase the xp they give at the same time. not take away cc in dungeons and keep them hard like they where. The players at the time wanted to keep the time it took in those days to level up, the immersion and the fun we had playing the game.
What they did? They did everyting they said they would not do + they gave us the LFG tool. They also killed world pvp on pvp servers and added similar rule set that pve servers have. The game is not the same has it was. technically it is a altohlics dream for sure but not a mmorpg player game anymore. Now it is more about convenience then the fun.
There are three main reasons for there are so many WoW haters.
1. Being the mainstream/best/most popular mmo. A lot of people will always side against the mainstream/best/most popular option in any field of life, simply because it's human nature. You can translate that to any field of life. For example, let's say I don't care about American Football. It's an American sport that here in Europe nobody plays or really cares about. So when the Superbowl comes up, they show the finalist teams and label one as the "twenty times champion favourite" and the other as the "newcoming aspirant". The big favourite team is from New York, or some big, fat, industrial city. The newcomer aspirant team is from a backwater town with a population of 7,000. There are studies that indicate that the vast majority of people when presented a choice will be biased against the one that represents the biggest/favourite entity simply because it's more exciting to create an upset in the established order.
2. Bli$$ard. The company's policies based on milking off the gaming population are annoying to many, and even more so because they are successful. To many people, companies like Blizzard/Activision, Ubisoft or EA are destroying the gaming markets, and taking from gamers what belongs to them with microtransactions and paywalls. Only because of that, any game made by Blizzard will get (understandable) hate.
3. Burnt-out. Jimmy played WoW for six years, but in his mind, they gradually made the game less and less appealing to his tastes. Those changes followed a criteria he didn't really agree with (ie, more accessible to casuals) and that irritated Jimmy, but he kept playing, building up hatred with every little thing that he considered to be against his ideals of what the game should be. Eventually there were enough nails in that coffin for Jimmy to decide to unsuscribe. Now although Jimmy had the absolutely best times of his gaming history in WoW, he can't get over how in his mind, the game has been violated and it's in a poor, worthless state. Jimmy refers to the time when he played as the "good old days", and shuns anyone who plays now because they missed the fun he had, the only fun worth having. Jimmy also feels the need to repeatedly bash the game.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
I think that even if WoW didn't take the direction it did and it stayed similar to how it was in Vanilla, most people would still stop playing.
I personally see it this way. I stopped playing WoW not necessarily because of changes to the game or its direction. I just understand that nothing lasts forever. You can't spend so many hours playing a game and not get bored. Tbere is a fine point at which you simply need a brand new game no matter what changes are made to a game.
Do you guys expect to be able to play a game after playing it for 1k+ or more hours and still enjoy it like a new game. IT simply doesn't work. So it seems a lot of people would focus on what changed rather then just moving on and saying hey I've played this game for a long time and I simply got bored.
Would you guys REALLY still play WoW if it maintained exactly the same philosophy as during Vanilla/TBC? I am pretty sure the answer would still be no. But it looks like a lot of people still focus on the changes made to the game and only remember the bad as opposed all the good that this game did. Such a pessimistic way of thinking.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Do quests, level up, do 5 mans, do heroics, get raid ready, raid.
I can answer for me.
1: They nerfed the leveling game. It's to fast, to easy now. Zero challenge.
2: They added heirloom gear that ruined battle ground leveling.
3: They made dungeons all about aoe.
4: They dumbed down many aspects of the game. Hunter pets, Rogue poisons, reagents for spells, travel, weapon skill leveling, etc....It's all about convenience. Makes the game feel like a kids game. I could go on but you get my point.
Thanks for the reality check Grey. Anyone who says the game feels the same now as it did throughout every single expansion is either stoned out of their minds or is flat out lying that they had ever played previous editions ... especially vanilla or BC.
There was a time when missing even one CC on a trash mob meant a group wipe. It was simply THAT hard and tactical. I am not speaking of the newest expansion due to not having experience in it but ever since BC Wow has been about as challenging as games people play on their smart phones these days.
This mmo direction is industry wide and the core reason why the genre is where it is today. Blizzard's Wow is simply the posterboy and greatest influence on this change ... something not missed by fans of the genre.
TBC had the most challenging content in the game. Why do you say ever since TBC the game has bee as challenging as msarphone games? TBC was more difficult than vanilla. What you were talking about CC, was true to TBC. It was so pathetic when looking for a dungeon party and there were so many class specs which were excluded out right. Retri paladin? HAHAHA, go reroll. Moonkin? Are you for real? Go dance near the mailbox in Stormwind. So many dps classes were not taken to dungeons because they had to be a CC dps. Resto druids were treated as shit. I know as it was my main spec throughout the entire game. In vanilla Resto was so shitty, all we did in raids was innervate the priests. In TBC we were great for raids but horrible for dungeons. I can't remember the times that I got kicked out of dungeons simply because i didn't have an out of combat resurrect. Sometimes people would'nt even take me. They would go and take the real healers!
However, while TBC and vanilla did a lot of things right, there were a lot of issues with those two iterations of the game. A lot of issues which people complained like there is no tomorow at the time and Blizzard addressed (for the better in my opinion)but no one seems to remember those. It's all the suppossedly bad changes that people focus on.
There was someone who posted a really good overview of what class balance was like during vanilla and how piss easy and unsophisticated most class specs were. But I can't find it and I don't feel like spending 1 hours typing it up
So there were tons of changes which were done for the better. But again people only focus on the "bad changes".
WoW is not as casual as people make it out to be. Have you guys done heroic raiding? Raiding in the later expansions has a lot more complex mechanics than we ever had in vanilla. Heroic raiding is very hard too. But people seem to be focusing on heroic dungeons and LFR lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
^^ that's why my only issue is the investment not the game itself.
For example if the invested subscriptions back into the game (while still having a good but not greedy profit margin). They could easily:
Rewrite the gfx engine Give 50 levels of content every 2 years, not 5 Redesign the progression. System that doesn't destroy itself - I.e balance + the crazy increase in gear reward cadance. New classes every 2 years With balancing sorted, massive expansion of skills. All the niche elements, market leading housing etc
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I would agree that after almost 10 years and more than 10k hours played, its more me and less of WoW's fault that i cant play it anymore.
But on the other hand there isnt anything attractive or even reminding an rpg game anymore. There isnt any kind of character progression in max lvl. Classes and talent trees are one way anymore, leaving almost no choices. There is no world content and no world exploration. Professions are pointless and 99% of the meaningful content is instanced and garrisons pushed even more towards that. Everything is under a 24hour cd. In my eyes WoW becomes with each expansion / patch more of a facebook game than a real mmorpg one.
Anyway thats my point of view. Still the game has millions of subs, so i guess everything is alright...
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
I would agree that after almost 10 years and more than 10k hours played, its more me and less of WoW's fault that i cant play it anymore.
But on the other hand there isnt anything attractive or even reminding an rpg game anymore. There isnt any kind of character progression in max lvl. Classes and talent trees are one way anymore, leaving almost no choices. There is no world content and no world exploration. Professions are pointless and 99% of the meaningful content is instanced and garrisons pushed even more towards that. Everything is under a 24hour cd. In my eyes WoW becomes with each expansion / patch more of a facebook game than a real mmorpg one.
Anyway thats my point of view. Still the game has millions of subs, so i guess everything is alright...
Correct me if I am wrong but WoW actually has more varied things to do at max level now than in previous expansions. In vanilla all the way to WoD the only kind of character progression there was at max level was gear. That hasn't changed one bit. There was only raiding in vanilla at max level and that's still the case. There was 0 character progression with regard to your talents. They pretty much capped at max level. There was no talent variety, certainly not in vanilla.
I always found professions useless. I played through the whole of WoW without really relying on any kind of professions, to me there were always a boring time sink which didn't justify the effort.
WoW never hard world content other than some raid bosses and some limited time events like AQ. There were city raids but that was killed very early on in vanilla.
World exploration to me is always about the mindset of the individual not about the game. If you are not interested in the world, you probably won't want to explore it. I have had games where at one point I really enjoyed exploring their world and next thing you know I lose all interest/don't care about the world (change of mindset).
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
1. WOW makes changes too often. Even "good" changes are jarring if done too frequently.
2. WOW is dumbing itself down, which does not really fit, as even casual players are becoming more sophisticated. Imagine teaching someone to ride a bike and starting them out on 10-speeds, then later, some kind of teen bike, then when they're really good, rolling out a tricycle for them.
3. WOW does not listen to beta testers in regards to design decisions. Many folks, from what I've heard, warned them about too much focus on garrisons. Garrisons happened anyway and are core to this expansion's experience.
4. Proving ground requirements. Again, WOW working in the opposite direction of the player base. Blizzard talks about making the game more accessible, then throws up a hurdle to that accessibility. Proving grounds only determine whether a player is adept at "shoot and move" with rapid changes. But many skilled players, casters and healers and hunters, need not move too much in actual raids. So, there is a disconnect here.
5. Trivializing and marginalizing professions. Some folks have put 10 years into their professions, only to become outdated because garrison NPC's now, effortlessly, do most of what is needed here.
6. Cross-realm gaming. Destroys community, because you often group with someone you will never really get to know or even have guarantees of adventuring again.
7. World races by too fast. Imagine a vast art gallery that you are rushed through in minutes. That's kind of the feeling WOW instills upon its world. Blizzard creates a vast beautiful world in its expansion, then makes leveling from 90 to 100 into a blink of the eye--two days in some cases.
8. Profit-focus trumping design-focus. We now have "Farmville", basically, and uber-instanced, cross-realm content. What happened to the world? Where is the community? If everyone is max level is anyone really max level?
1. Agree.
2. Done with mythics raids in the first week lite top guild? No? They game is clearly too challenging
3. Dunno, got any data to back it up? Developers should listen to community but not blindly follow them. Mosr of the times the gamers dont know what they want and as hell dont know how to make games.
4. So this game is to hard or to easy? Make up your mind...
5. Dont completly agree, but it is a point. Also, grind as hell.
6. How meeting moar people is less socializing? You dont talk to random dung pug either way. Ans screaming "LF2M" in trade chat is not socializing...
7. Lack of content for a launch i agree upon. Thats why stoped playing and paying.
8. I can spam trade chat in garrison, so your point?
The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.
Not because it's a great game
Not because it rivals anything out now
Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.
Not because it's a great game
Not because it rivals anything out now
Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....
Thank the gods we have a clever philosopher like you to tell everyone else what's the game they should be enjoying.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.
Not because it's a great game
Not because it rivals anything out now
Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....
Thank the gods we have a clever philosopher like you to tell everyone else what's the game they should be enjoying.
Hmmmm...don't see where I said what to play
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Well... I can tell you really simply why I don't like WoW.
Before WoW, MMO's were made differently. They just were. They had different objectives. WoW came along with its own objective. That's fine. Other folks can enjoy what they want to enjoy. I don't have a problem with it. But... I didn't find the value in it then, and I still don't. The problem is... that's the only MMO available. Every major MMO released thus far has been a copy cat of WoW.
I liked SWG. I liked almost everything about it, Pre-NGE. That's the kind of MMO I want to play. But they don't make MMO's like that anymore. And it has nothing to do with it not being successful. Technology was different back then. What they were trying to do came out like a steam-pile of crap. I'll admit it. But it had nothing to do with it being "subscription." The designs weren't flawed. It had nothing to do with it not being centered around RAIDs or PVP or any of that stuff. The entire Internet was still in its infancy at the time. The industry had just started. Times have changed. It's time they go back to the roots and try to make that game again. I'm 100% positive that it will succeed in this day and age - now that most of the kinks have been worked out. I'd put every last dollar I have on it.
I don't think WoW is a terrible game. And I wouldn't say I hate it. I just don't enjoy it. It doesn't appeal to me from a foundational perspective. It never has, and in the past 10 years of constant copy cats, nothing about it has proven to be different. And I am pretty sure it never will. That's all there is to it. It's not some bitter mindset that's been stewing. People just prefer different things, and developers and publishers constantly neglect to give it to us.
Well... I can tell you really simply why I don't like WoW.
Before WoW, MMO's were made differently. They just were. They had different objectives. WoW came along with its own objective. That's fine. Other folks can enjoy what they want to enjoy. I don't have a problem with it. But... I didn't find the value in it then, and I still don't. The problem is... that's the only MMO available. Every major MMO released thus far has been a copy cat of WoW.
I liked SWG. I liked almost everything about it, Pre-NGE. That's the kind of MMO I want to play. But they don't make MMO's like that anymore. And it has nothing to do with it not being successful. Technology was different back then. What they were trying to do came out like a steam-pile of crap. I'll admit it. But it had nothing to do with it being "subscription." The designs weren't flawed. It had nothing to do with it not being centered around RAIDs or PVP or any of that stuff. The entire Internet was still in its infancy at the time. The industry had just started. Times have changed. It's time they go back to the roots and try to make that game again. I'm 100% positive that it will succeed in this day and age - now that most of the kinks have been worked out. I'd put every last dollar I have on it.
I don't think WoW is a terrible game. And I wouldn't say I hate it. I just don't enjoy it. It doesn't appeal to me from a foundational perspective. It never has, and in the past 10 years of constant copy cats, nothing about it has proven to be different. And I am pretty sure it never will. That's all there is to it. It's not some bitter mindset that's been stewing. People just prefer different things, and developers and publishers constantly neglect to give it to us.
^Good opinion also...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
2. cause some blame WoW for no Warcraft 4, whether that is true or not i don't know. we will see once StarCraft 2 trilogy is done.
3. cause it shifted the genre toward wow clones unintentionally.
personally i still like WoW but story-wise it got worse. it wasn't exactly a masterpiece but it got worse in recent years and it wasn't just WoW. other Blizzard games like Diablo 3 and SC2: Heart of the Swarm got the same treatment and now they are going toward "almost no story" with cards and MOBA.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
Yes i can't stand WoW...but.....why should you care? Maybe i should thank WoW,for always playing it safe and mainstreaming MMO's and now we have so many indie and small studios taking the risks blizzard refuses to and we can all find the games we really like. life would be boring if we all loved the same things.
2. cause some blame WoW for no Warcraft 4, whether that is true or not i don't know. we will see once StarCraft 2 trilogy is done.
3. cause it shifted the genre toward wow clones unintentionally.
personally i still like WoW but story-wise it got worse. it wasn't exactly a masterpiece but it got worse in recent years and it wasn't just WoW. other Blizzard games like Diablo 3 and SC2: Heart of the Swarm got the same treatment and now they are going toward "almost no story" with cards and MOBA.
1. No
2. No again
3. Yes
Did you mean Diablo2 and not 3? Cause I'm confused about the MOBA and no story part. All of the Diablo series had a great story...not sure if people cared enough though.
Oh...and no cards needed...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Comments
Its usually not hate its just people once loved the game and are disappointed in what it has become in recent years .
Sure he pulled those numbers out of his ass, but he has a point. When you compare the amount of new content FFXIV gets to the amount of new content WoW gets, then consider that FFXIV has a small fraction of WoW's subscriber base then there are really only three possibilities:
1) Blizzard Pockets almost all of your subscription fees.
2) SE is taking a loss on FFXIV and borrowing money to pay for new content.
3) The skill gap between the people working on WoW and the people working on FFXIV is so large that the FFXIV team can put out a comparable if not superior amount content with a much smaller team.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
People won't like it but WoW moved with the times and appealed to a younger playerbase that have different interests then we did 10 years, i.e. quick casual group play, very much intune with the rise of the MOBAs we have now.
Expecting a company to appeal to you, when you've changed in the 10 years the games been around, is just bizzare.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
While these figures were from 2008. The subscribers havent changed that much since then. They were getting a revenue of 1 billion a year. And there was also another Article stating they only had paid out 200m in the 4 years 2004-2008 for upkeep cost (equipment/payroll/etc) so its pretty easy to guess they are easily profiting around 600ish~ million a year.
And no. They aren't "pocketing" this money. If that was the only thing Blizzard spent their money on then yes they would be pocketing that money. But they are constantly developing new games and even making a movie. Blizzard is one of the few companies that know how to stay in business and keep making quality products. Everyone assumes they are greedy but thats just how business works, otherwise they wouldnt even be around anymore. I mean hell they even combined with activision to keep them alive for gamers. If it werent for that then all these call of duty fans would be stuck with whatever game came out last before the merger.
Except the bulk of their player base is 30+ something adults.
Both true, and not true. I always suspected the 12 months WoW went with no new content went to fund the 500 million they put into Destiny. The problem is I'm not the least bit interested in Destiny. In fact I'm not impressed with any of the new games Blizzard has put out in the last 10 years so while they aren't technically pocketing my subscription fee they might as well be.
The casualization of WoW is more about catering to adults than it is to appealing to teenagers. It's not the 17 year-old in highschool that wants quick casual play it's the 30 something with two kids and a full time job that only has time for that kind of content now.
This ^
It was so much fun even in TBC. But before TBC came out they promis the players that the LFG tool would come out to help us reduce the time to wait for grouping but that they would not nerf the game at all. eg : xp needed to level up, no extra rested bonus added on the existing one, not nerf the mobs and increase the xp they give at the same time. not take away cc in dungeons and keep them hard like they where. The players at the time wanted to keep the time it took in those days to level up, the immersion and the fun we had playing the game.
What they did? They did everyting they said they would not do + they gave us the LFG tool. They also killed world pvp on pvp servers and added similar rule set that pve servers have. The game is not the same has it was. technically it is a altohlics dream for sure but not a mmorpg player game anymore. Now it is more about convenience then the fun.
There are three main reasons for there are so many WoW haters.
1. Being the mainstream/best/most popular mmo. A lot of people will always side against the mainstream/best/most popular option in any field of life, simply because it's human nature. You can translate that to any field of life. For example, let's say I don't care about American Football. It's an American sport that here in Europe nobody plays or really cares about. So when the Superbowl comes up, they show the finalist teams and label one as the "twenty times champion favourite" and the other as the "newcoming aspirant". The big favourite team is from New York, or some big, fat, industrial city. The newcomer aspirant team is from a backwater town with a population of 7,000. There are studies that indicate that the vast majority of people when presented a choice will be biased against the one that represents the biggest/favourite entity simply because it's more exciting to create an upset in the established order.
2. Bli$$ard. The company's policies based on milking off the gaming population are annoying to many, and even more so because they are successful. To many people, companies like Blizzard/Activision, Ubisoft or EA are destroying the gaming markets, and taking from gamers what belongs to them with microtransactions and paywalls. Only because of that, any game made by Blizzard will get (understandable) hate.
3. Burnt-out. Jimmy played WoW for six years, but in his mind, they gradually made the game less and less appealing to his tastes. Those changes followed a criteria he didn't really agree with (ie, more accessible to casuals) and that irritated Jimmy, but he kept playing, building up hatred with every little thing that he considered to be against his ideals of what the game should be. Eventually there were enough nails in that coffin for Jimmy to decide to unsuscribe. Now although Jimmy had the absolutely best times of his gaming history in WoW, he can't get over how in his mind, the game has been violated and it's in a poor, worthless state. Jimmy refers to the time when he played as the "good old days", and shuns anyone who plays now because they missed the fun he had, the only fun worth having. Jimmy also feels the need to repeatedly bash the game.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
I think that even if WoW didn't take the direction it did and it stayed similar to how it was in Vanilla, most people would still stop playing.
I personally see it this way. I stopped playing WoW not necessarily because of changes to the game or its direction. I just understand that nothing lasts forever. You can't spend so many hours playing a game and not get bored. Tbere is a fine point at which you simply need a brand new game no matter what changes are made to a game.
Do you guys expect to be able to play a game after playing it for 1k+ or more hours and still enjoy it like a new game. IT simply doesn't work. So it seems a lot of people would focus on what changed rather then just moving on and saying hey I've played this game for a long time and I simply got bored.
Would you guys REALLY still play WoW if it maintained exactly the same philosophy as during Vanilla/TBC? I am pretty sure the answer would still be no. But it looks like a lot of people still focus on the changes made to the game and only remember the bad as opposed all the good that this game did. Such a pessimistic way of thinking.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
TBC had the most challenging content in the game. Why do you say ever since TBC the game has bee as challenging as msarphone games? TBC was more difficult than vanilla. What you were talking about CC, was true to TBC. It was so pathetic when looking for a dungeon party and there were so many class specs which were excluded out right. Retri paladin? HAHAHA, go reroll. Moonkin? Are you for real? Go dance near the mailbox in Stormwind. So many dps classes were not taken to dungeons because they had to be a CC dps. Resto druids were treated as shit. I know as it was my main spec throughout the entire game. In vanilla Resto was so shitty, all we did in raids was innervate the priests. In TBC we were great for raids but horrible for dungeons. I can't remember the times that I got kicked out of dungeons simply because i didn't have an out of combat resurrect. Sometimes people would'nt even take me. They would go and take the real healers!
However, while TBC and vanilla did a lot of things right, there were a lot of issues with those two iterations of the game. A lot of issues which people complained like there is no tomorow at the time and Blizzard addressed (for the better in my opinion)but no one seems to remember those. It's all the suppossedly bad changes that people focus on.
There was someone who posted a really good overview of what class balance was like during vanilla and how piss easy and unsophisticated most class specs were. But I can't find it and I don't feel like spending 1 hours typing it up
So there were tons of changes which were done for the better. But again people only focus on the "bad changes".
WoW is not as casual as people make it out to be. Have you guys done heroic raiding? Raiding in the later expansions has a lot more complex mechanics than we ever had in vanilla. Heroic raiding is very hard too. But people seem to be focusing on heroic dungeons and LFR lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
For example if the invested subscriptions back into the game (while still having a good but not greedy profit margin). They could easily:
Rewrite the gfx engine
Give 50 levels of content every 2 years, not 5
Redesign the progression. System that doesn't destroy itself - I.e balance + the crazy increase in gear reward cadance.
New classes every 2 years
With balancing sorted, massive expansion of skills.
All the niche elements, market leading housing etc
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I would agree that after almost 10 years and more than 10k hours played, its more me and less of WoW's fault that i cant play it anymore.
But on the other hand there isnt anything attractive or even reminding an rpg game anymore. There isnt any kind of character progression in max lvl. Classes and talent trees are one way anymore, leaving almost no choices. There is no world content and no world exploration. Professions are pointless and 99% of the meaningful content is instanced and garrisons pushed even more towards that. Everything is under a 24hour cd. In my eyes WoW becomes with each expansion / patch more of a facebook game than a real mmorpg one.
Anyway thats my point of view. Still the game has millions of subs, so i guess everything is alright...
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Correct me if I am wrong but WoW actually has more varied things to do at max level now than in previous expansions. In vanilla all the way to WoD the only kind of character progression there was at max level was gear. That hasn't changed one bit. There was only raiding in vanilla at max level and that's still the case. There was 0 character progression with regard to your talents. They pretty much capped at max level. There was no talent variety, certainly not in vanilla.
I always found professions useless. I played through the whole of WoW without really relying on any kind of professions, to me there were always a boring time sink which didn't justify the effort.
WoW never hard world content other than some raid bosses and some limited time events like AQ. There were city raids but that was killed very early on in vanilla.
World exploration to me is always about the mindset of the individual not about the game. If you are not interested in the world, you probably won't want to explore it. I have had games where at one point I really enjoyed exploring their world and next thing you know I lose all interest/don't care about the world (change of mindset).
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
1. Agree.
2. Done with mythics raids in the first week lite top guild? No? They game is clearly too challenging
3. Dunno, got any data to back it up? Developers should listen to community but not blindly follow them. Mosr of the times the gamers dont know what they want and as hell dont know how to make games.
4. So this game is to hard or to easy? Make up your mind...
5. Dont completly agree, but it is a point. Also, grind as hell.
6. How meeting moar people is less socializing? You dont talk to random dung pug either way. Ans screaming "LF2M" in trade chat is not socializing...
7. Lack of content for a launch i agree upon. Thats why stoped playing and paying.
8. I can spam trade chat in garrison, so your point?
It's how I felt as well, I miss it still but I know what I wanted and got out of it originally has long since past.
The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.
Not because it's a great game
Not because it rivals anything out now
Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Thank the gods we have a clever philosopher like you to tell everyone else what's the game they should be enjoying.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Hmmmm...don't see where I said what to play
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Well... I can tell you really simply why I don't like WoW.
Before WoW, MMO's were made differently. They just were. They had different objectives. WoW came along with its own objective. That's fine. Other folks can enjoy what they want to enjoy. I don't have a problem with it. But... I didn't find the value in it then, and I still don't. The problem is... that's the only MMO available. Every major MMO released thus far has been a copy cat of WoW.
I liked SWG. I liked almost everything about it, Pre-NGE. That's the kind of MMO I want to play. But they don't make MMO's like that anymore. And it has nothing to do with it not being successful. Technology was different back then. What they were trying to do came out like a steam-pile of crap. I'll admit it. But it had nothing to do with it being "subscription." The designs weren't flawed. It had nothing to do with it not being centered around RAIDs or PVP or any of that stuff. The entire Internet was still in its infancy at the time. The industry had just started. Times have changed. It's time they go back to the roots and try to make that game again. I'm 100% positive that it will succeed in this day and age - now that most of the kinks have been worked out. I'd put every last dollar I have on it.
I don't think WoW is a terrible game. And I wouldn't say I hate it. I just don't enjoy it. It doesn't appeal to me from a foundational perspective. It never has, and in the past 10 years of constant copy cats, nothing about it has proven to be different. And I am pretty sure it never will. That's all there is to it. It's not some bitter mindset that's been stewing. People just prefer different things, and developers and publishers constantly neglect to give it to us.
^Good opinion also...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
1. cause it's cool to hate it
2. cause some blame WoW for no Warcraft 4, whether that is true or not i don't know. we will see once StarCraft 2 trilogy is done.
3. cause it shifted the genre toward wow clones unintentionally.
personally i still like WoW but story-wise it got worse. it wasn't exactly a masterpiece but it got worse in recent years and it wasn't just WoW. other Blizzard games like Diablo 3 and SC2: Heart of the Swarm got the same treatment and now they are going toward "almost no story" with cards and MOBA.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
1. No
2. No again
3. Yes
Did you mean Diablo2 and not 3? Cause I'm confused about the MOBA and no story part. All of the Diablo series had a great story...not sure if people cared enough though.
Oh...and no cards needed...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."