But if they dumbed down most games we will get an attack button and the movement keys (well forward and back, the rest you can use your mosue for, that is easier) and nothing more. Doesn't sound very fun to me at least.
They didn't say that.
They were saying to have the same controls for more games .. so people don't have to remember again and again.
And while this is already true for shooters, it is not true for TPS, and other types of action games.
It is, however, true for Diablo type games.
Also note that control is just a small part of it. You also have to learn the use of gameplay systems. And that differs a lot across games. For example, even when D3 and Marvel Heroes uses essentially mouse to move, right/left click + number keys for skills, you have to learn what skill to use in what situations.
And you don't want to make that difficult (for example, you need all the skills right from the start to progress).
""And asking for two hours of somebody's time--most of our customers, between their normal family lives...to find two contiguous hours to concentrate on learning how to play a video game is a big ask," he added."'
2 hours.... two... really
Yet another sign of the coming apocalypse
I can't honestly remember the last time I had 2 straight uninterrupted hours of gaming time...
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is too difficult for some too, I guess thats why they have those PB&J combo jars at the supermarket, does this mean EA is the PB&J combo of the gaming industry? I guess theres a market for everything...
It's the double-edged sword of mainstreamification of gaming. With gaming as a mainstream hobby, it gets more attention, more money, money developers, more products, and more competition. However, with a larger audience comes larger ROI expectations, which means they need to attract more people.
Alienating the gamers that grew up on games when they were "uncool" and "dorky" is a small price to pay for the corporate world when you can trade 1 old gamer for 1000 nouveau gamers. It's always going to be the right business decision. It's not necessarily the right decision for quality, but the corporate world cares little for quality. They only care to reach the lowest bar necessary to sell their product.
But, it's not doom and gloom as so many think. With gaming more popular than ever, we do have more people entering the field who may strike out on their own and make something great. Path of Exile is a great game, would it exist if the market wasn't so large? Who knows, would GGG even have existed? There's various gems out there and I think as the market continues to expand, there will be enough room (aka enough consumers of differing tastes) that some studios will find it better to pursue those people as customers.
I also think we're seeing a lot of effort being made in this direction from smaller start-ups and indies, although they have to really understand what systems will appeal to players and try to be more inclusive (I'm looking at you "heavy emphasis on PvP" culprit).
Originally posted by MisterZebub And this is why I no longer support EA Games and haven't for some time. Games made by committee just become bland and boring copies of other games negating any real reason for said game to exist.
Really?
The first Deadspace is not fun for you? It was a lot of fun for me.
Sigh, I feel a new dumbing down of the games comming up... A chimp can already learn to play them but it seems that EA thinks their players are incredible stupid.
They also in their wisdom say: "Every game is an RPG now,".
I don't know what's scarier, the fact that EA is saying this, or the fact that they aren't necessarily wrong.
The difficulty for games keeps getting lower and lower, and yet I keep seeing players who struggle which each new low. Furthermore, almost every game has incorporated RPG elements in them today. Does this automatically make them RPGs? Of course not, but it's pretty clear that those lines have become very blurred in recent years.
I fear we will continue to see games get dumber, and sadly I think it's a self-perpetuating loop. As games continue to get dumber, so does the average gamer. And as a result, the gap widens between those with a brain that want meaningful / challenging games, and those that are button pressers.
The irony is that people are bemoaning the "dumbing down" of games in posts which are marginally articulate and laced with spelling and syntactic errors.
And the EA executive saying, "That's a big ask."
This reminds me of the Orwell quote:
"The English language becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for foolish thoughts."
Edit: This is not directed at non-native speakers of English, even though this website does use spell check.
How is their grammar and spelling abilities at all related to finding gaming too easy and simple? You are drawing a parallel where there isn't one.
Must they also be fantastic in Geography? Math? History? People who find these subjects simple and easy might draw the same parallel you drew to their respective subjects then.
Not good at math and complaining that games are too easy? Oh, the irony.
I'm a bit worried about what gamers want in games today. They seem to be just interesting in quickly getting as much loot and advancement as possible. Difficulty seems to be grinding over and over for loot at high levels. It's like Diablo has become every game. Sadly Diablo actually had a better story then most of the games today. The actual variety of gameplay and choice wasn't much better though. If you add any measure of choice or difficulty then it's boring or frustrating. If there is any kind of mood setter like darkness, fog, rain storms, it is annoying. If there are any penalties it is a time waster. If there are too many abilities/skills or utility it is unneeded clutter. If you have to do anything but DPS in some way it's not fun. If a mob is strong enough to kill you at early levels it is not fun. If you can't get good equipment right away it is boring.
Lol. What did you guys think would happen when games became the #1 mainstream entertainment media?
Mainstream mass produced pop music is shit...
Mainstream mass-produced TV is shit...
Mainstream mass produced movies are shit...
Did you think games would be exempt?
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
And yes, they've all been injecting RPG bits into everything so they can bill it as such in their adds -- it has become almost meaningless. And yes, the latest trend is to make them all MOs... never mind that first M, the gullible can be made to think the first M doesn't matter.
Shit, this very site covers all kinds of MOs without much effort to differentiate them... adding to the general confusion.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
""And asking for two hours of somebody's time--most of our customers, between their normal family lives...to find two contiguous hours to concentrate on learning how to play a video game is a big ask," he added."'2 hours.... two... reallyYet another sign of the coming apocalypse
Next thing you know parents will stop vaccinating their children against common diseases like Measles.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Sigh, I feel a new dumbing down of the games comming up... A chimp can already learn to play them but it seems that EA thinks their players are incredible stupid.
They also in their wisdom say: "Every game is an RPG now,".
This is something the industry was discovering years ago, and the main driver behind it is the sequelling of games. Each one iterates on the previous one. By the third or fourth installment, that "intuitive UI" is far from intuitive, and the core gameplay has had so much piled on that it's hard to get to what the actual focus of the game was.
What's sad is that this was a hot topic almost twenty years ago. A great example of a developer that went the other direction is Impressions Games, who trimmed down the 'features' of Lords of the Realm in their sequel, creating a game that focused less on micromanagement (each little step of growing/transporting your crops, for example) and more on the core gameplay. This made the sequel a more engaging game for existing fans and kept the barrier to entry low for new fans.
It's not that games need to be dumbed down or that people are stupider, it's that sometimes games seem to be developed under the assumption that the audience is familiar with all the similarities, conventions and tropes of previous iterations, and that isn't always the case.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
What are you talking about?
TV is great .. the Flash, Arrow, House of Cards, Scandal .... it is the golden age of TV.
Movie is great ... all the marvel movies ...
.. if games can do as well as TV & movie, i will be very happy. It is not bad though ... there are some great games to play from mainstream stuff like D3 and Dishonored, to more indie like stuff like Life is Strange, and Gone Home.
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
What are you talking about?
TV is great .. the Flash, Arrow, House of Cards, Scandal .... it is the golden age of TV.
Movie is great ... all the marvel movies ...
.. if games can do as well as TV & movie, i will be very happy. It is not bad though ... there are some great games to play from mainstream stuff like D3 and Dishonored, to more indie like stuff like Life is Strange, and Gone Home.
TV is great on HBO, Netflix, FX, etc. and it continues to be shit on CBS, ABC and NBC where they produce all the heavily censored pablum for the masses... and btw, you forgot Fargo, True Detectives, and The Americans to name just 3 more.
F2P mobile and FB shit is the main focus of game development these days because it's easy money. That and the incremental refresh of franchises. Games like Darkest Dungeon are the exception not the rule. Luckily there is enough volume to give us a lot of exceptions to choose from.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
""And asking for two hours of somebody's time--most of our customers, between their normal family lives...to find two contiguous hours to concentrate on learning how to play a video game is a big ask," he added."'
2 hours.... two... really
Yet another sign of the coming apocalypse
Yes really.
2 hours is the time to watch a movie. I usually don't give a game 2 hours before I decide whether to give it more time. If it is not fun in the first 15-20 min, i am out of there.
Plus, he makes a good point in the article. I really don't want to waste time to learn just another button layout in a more game. It is not that I cannot .. but I have better use of my time. So it would be great if button layouts are similar across games (which btw, is almost true today, anyway).
Now if devs don't want to make games for me, it is perfectly fine .. i have plenty to do. However, if they want a slice of my entertainment time, don't waste it, and make it fun from the start. I am not giving anyone 2 hours just to sell me.
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
What are you talking about?
TV is great .. the Flash, Arrow, House of Cards, Scandal .... it is the golden age of TV.
Movie is great ... all the marvel movies ...
.. if games can do as well as TV & movie, i will be very happy. It is not bad though ... there are some great games to play from mainstream stuff like D3 and Dishonored, to more indie like stuff like Life is Strange, and Gone Home.
TV is great on HBO, Netflix, FX, etc. and it continues to be shit on CBS, ABC and NBC where they produce all the heavily censored pablum for the masses... and btw, you forgot Fargo, True Detectives, and The Americans to name just 3 more.
I avoid HBO as I cant stand all the nudity and swearing. We keep things family rated in our home.
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
What are you talking about?
TV is great .. the Flash, Arrow, House of Cards, Scandal .... it is the golden age of TV.
Movie is great ... all the marvel movies ...
.. if games can do as well as TV & movie, i will be very happy. It is not bad though ... there are some great games to play from mainstream stuff like D3 and Dishonored, to more indie like stuff like Life is Strange, and Gone Home.
TV is great on HBO, Netflix, FX, etc. and it continues to be shit on CBS, ABC and NBC where they produce all the heavily censored pablum for the masses... and btw, you forgot Fargo, True Detectives, and The Americans to name just 3 more.
I avoid HBO as I cant stand all the nudity and swearing. We keep things family rated in our home.
I never said pablum wasn't popular
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Forget MMOs, we might be seeing the end of gaming as we know it.
Let's make everything so ******* simple that kids won't have to think while playing. Maybe this way they won't develope brain cells.
They didn't say that.
They were saying to have the same controls for more games .. so people don't have to remember again and again.
And while this is already true for shooters, it is not true for TPS, and other types of action games.
It is, however, true for Diablo type games.
Also note that control is just a small part of it. You also have to learn the use of gameplay systems. And that differs a lot across games. For example, even when D3 and Marvel Heroes uses essentially mouse to move, right/left click + number keys for skills, you have to learn what skill to use in what situations.
And you don't want to make that difficult (for example, you need all the skills right from the start to progress).
I can't honestly remember the last time I had 2 straight uninterrupted hours of gaming time...
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
It's the double-edged sword of mainstreamification of gaming. With gaming as a mainstream hobby, it gets more attention, more money, money developers, more products, and more competition. However, with a larger audience comes larger ROI expectations, which means they need to attract more people.
Alienating the gamers that grew up on games when they were "uncool" and "dorky" is a small price to pay for the corporate world when you can trade 1 old gamer for 1000 nouveau gamers. It's always going to be the right business decision. It's not necessarily the right decision for quality, but the corporate world cares little for quality. They only care to reach the lowest bar necessary to sell their product.
But, it's not doom and gloom as so many think. With gaming more popular than ever, we do have more people entering the field who may strike out on their own and make something great. Path of Exile is a great game, would it exist if the market wasn't so large? Who knows, would GGG even have existed? There's various gems out there and I think as the market continues to expand, there will be enough room (aka enough consumers of differing tastes) that some studios will find it better to pursue those people as customers.
I also think we're seeing a lot of effort being made in this direction from smaller start-ups and indies, although they have to really understand what systems will appeal to players and try to be more inclusive (I'm looking at you "heavy emphasis on PvP" culprit).
Really?
The first Deadspace is not fun for you? It was a lot of fun for me.
I don't know what's scarier, the fact that EA is saying this, or the fact that they aren't necessarily wrong.
The difficulty for games keeps getting lower and lower, and yet I keep seeing players who struggle which each new low. Furthermore, almost every game has incorporated RPG elements in them today. Does this automatically make them RPGs? Of course not, but it's pretty clear that those lines have become very blurred in recent years.
I fear we will continue to see games get dumber, and sadly I think it's a self-perpetuating loop. As games continue to get dumber, so does the average gamer. And as a result, the gap widens between those with a brain that want meaningful / challenging games, and those that are button pressers.
How is their grammar and spelling abilities at all related to finding gaming too easy and simple? You are drawing a parallel where there isn't one.
Must they also be fantastic in Geography? Math? History? People who find these subjects simple and easy might draw the same parallel you drew to their respective subjects then.
Not good at math and complaining that games are too easy? Oh, the irony.
Havent buyed in 2 year any EA game:) gonna keep that line.
Lol. What did you guys think would happen when games became the #1 mainstream entertainment media?
Mainstream mass produced pop music is shit...
Mainstream mass-produced TV is shit...
Mainstream mass produced movies are shit...
Did you think games would be exempt?
But.... there is good music, good TV and good movies. You just have to be more selective and beware of the over-hyped titles from studios and individuals with a known track record for catering to the masses.
And yes, they've all been injecting RPG bits into everything so they can bill it as such in their adds -- it has become almost meaningless. And yes, the latest trend is to make them all MOs... never mind that first M, the gullible can be made to think the first M doesn't matter.
Shit, this very site covers all kinds of MOs without much effort to differentiate them... adding to the general confusion.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
progression does make an rpg.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Next thing you know parents will stop vaccinating their children against common diseases like Measles.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
This is something the industry was discovering years ago, and the main driver behind it is the sequelling of games. Each one iterates on the previous one. By the third or fourth installment, that "intuitive UI" is far from intuitive, and the core gameplay has had so much piled on that it's hard to get to what the actual focus of the game was.
What's sad is that this was a hot topic almost twenty years ago. A great example of a developer that went the other direction is Impressions Games, who trimmed down the 'features' of Lords of the Realm in their sequel, creating a game that focused less on micromanagement (each little step of growing/transporting your crops, for example) and more on the core gameplay. This made the sequel a more engaging game for existing fans and kept the barrier to entry low for new fans.
It's not that games need to be dumbed down or that people are stupider, it's that sometimes games seem to be developed under the assumption that the audience is familiar with all the similarities, conventions and tropes of previous iterations, and that isn't always the case.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why would anyone listen to this developer when all he did was take a franchise system (assassin's creed) and marry it to an IP (Lord of the Rings)?
EA's opinion of gamers......
What are you talking about?
TV is great .. the Flash, Arrow, House of Cards, Scandal .... it is the golden age of TV.
Movie is great ... all the marvel movies ...
.. if games can do as well as TV & movie, i will be very happy. It is not bad though ... there are some great games to play from mainstream stuff like D3 and Dishonored, to more indie like stuff like Life is Strange, and Gone Home.
Anyone got a walk through to find the first dot?
Electronic Arts Consumers (apparently):
http://youtu.be/y0O7_3o3BrI
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TV is great on HBO, Netflix, FX, etc. and it continues to be shit on CBS, ABC and NBC where they produce all the heavily censored pablum for the masses... and btw, you forgot Fargo, True Detectives, and The Americans to name just 3 more.
F2P mobile and FB shit is the main focus of game development these days because it's easy money. That and the incremental refresh of franchises. Games like Darkest Dungeon are the exception not the rule. Luckily there is enough volume to give us a lot of exceptions to choose from.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But.... you already bought the game?
I avoid HBO as I cant stand all the nudity and swearing. We keep things family rated in our home.
I never said pablum wasn't popular
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED