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[Column] General: Is P2P Doomed?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Welcome to Player Versus Player, the bi-weekly column that throws two writers in a cage in a battle of faction warfare. We debate the topics nearest and dearest to your heart and then throw it in the comments to you to decide the victor. This week, we cast our gaze to business models and ask whether it’s time for Pay to Play to go the way of the Dodo.
Read more of Christopher Coke's and Ryan Getchell's Player vs Player: Is P2P Doomed?
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Comments
Buy to play means you pay once and that's it, no cash shops or dlc content.
Buy to play is indeed over. So is my faith in this hobby, I don't think I have much of a future left with this hobby anymore.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
You wanna point us in the direction of an F2P with good game design and community? BTW Good communities create good guilds, not the other way around.
Can't tell if you're trolling or not.
"I don’t want to feel like I have to log in or else waste money."
Do you feel the same way about your cable and internet services? You pay the same for TV whether you watch 2 hours a day or 10 hours a day.
It kills me that people fret over 50 cents a day for an mmo subscription. But they are fine with being gouged by their phone and cable companies.
I used to keep track of them here:
http://themess.com/gamestuff/2009/01/will-a-monthly-sub-make-it-in-the-age-of-free-to-play/
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Bingo.
Also, that argument, "I feel like I have to log in...", always gives me the impression that people are looking at the situation backwards.
That you're paying a sub fee is an indication - or should be - that you *want* to log in and play.
There is no sense of "obligation" when you're doing something you want to do.
If you go to a burger joint because you like their burgers... you're putting your money on the counter to buy that burger because you want to eat it. You don't go in, buy the burger and then sit there at your table, staring at it thinking "Well... gee.. I paid for it.. so now I feel like I have to eat it. This sucks".
If I'm subbed to a game, I never feel "obligated", or "forced", or "need to" to log in because I'm paying for it. I'm paying for it because I want to log in and play in the first place. That's kinda the way it works. You buy things because you want to have/use them. You don't buy something so you can feel like you "need to" have/use it, because you paid for it.
The moment I feel like the only reason I'm logging in is because "well, I paid for it.. guess I should be logging in to make it worth while", is the moment I'm canceling my sub and finding a new game to play, because it's no longer the game making me want to log in.
Frankly, I've always thought the argument was a bogus one anyway. It's one of those easy "canned responses" that sounds great on its face, but makes no sense when you actually think about it. There are a lot of those kinds of arguments when it comes to the anti-P2P crowd. Of all of them, the only one that stands up under scrutiny is, "I won't pay a sub for that game, because the game isn't worth it to me". It's a valid argument because is a value judgment, which is entirely subjective and which is perfectly rational for a person to make... about anything, not just MMOs.
Now, if someone says "I want to play that game, but I don't want to pay a sub, because it's not worth it"... then they're just trying to get free access to something they actually enjoy... enough to want to keep playing it. Those people will typically continue to pay and play, even while complaining about it, and even threatening to quit every so often... which they never do. They just want something for nothing.
Also, regarding the value of paying $13-$15 flat a month, which can break down to pennies an hour if you play enough... I have to wonder if these people do something like, say... go to a theater to see a movie. You can spend nearly the cost of a monthly sub, just to see the movie itself.. nevermind if you want to get snacks. That's 2-3 hours (tops) of entertainment, and that's it. You don't get a monthly pass to walk in as often as you want for the month and see all the movies they're showing, as many times as you want to see them. No. You pay for a single ticket, to a single showing of a single movie. Yet, people don't even think twice about that, or question its value.
And that's just one such example.
Tell them they can spend ~$15 and get "all you can eat access" to a game for a month, to log in and play as often as they want, for as long as they want (outside of maintenance of course) for an entire month... and suddenly they've got the microscope out, analyzing the "value" of that money, turning their nose up at it, and deeming it "not worth the money".
What's even funnier is when those people will denounce P2P as a "scam", or "not worth the $15", because they can't play it as often or whatever... But then they'll turn around and spend far more than that in a F2P cash shop. They're not playing the game any more than they would a P2P. They're getting no more value out of it - in fact they're getting less value once they go over the $15 mark for a month.... and many people, go well over that; and I'm not even talking about whales here (whales are on a whole other level). But they will argue 'til they're blue in the face that it's still a better value because... "I chose to pay it". Great. I choose to pay a subscription fee, as well.
And even at that, what cracks me up is that these people will denounce paying a subscription as "not being worth it" and want the game to be free... But then will argue that the reason they'll spend money on a F2P cash shop is "to support the developers". What the hell do they think the sub fee goes toward?
There is so much contradiction, double-standard, backwards thinking, and even non-thinking in the mantras of the anti-P2P crowd, it's impossible to keep up sometimes.
And of course, the biggest, and saddest, joke is that may of these people actually believe devs go F2P because it's better for the players. That's the biggest laugh right there.
IMO, payment model is irrelevant. It's like paper or plastic, Coke or Pepsi, Netflix or Hulu, etc.
Sure, we all have our preferences but if it's a great game, we'd all play it regardless of the model.
Religion, politics and now gaming are really polarizing topics.
people's preference and beliefs will not changed just because another player wrote a long. articulate and well-thought counter argument.
There is a name that has come up for the business model, and it's a pretty sound one at that. Here's a statement from Ryan Dancey on Pathfinder Online's approach: “We’ll begin with subscriptions only, and transition to microtransactions as soon as it makes sense to do so.” (Source)
I've got the model's name written down at work. I should drive in tomorrow and get it because it's been bugging the heck out of me that I can't remember.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This the average player, if it's a free to play game they will complain that mmo is taking there money for things it cost money to make and time, dev don't work for free or cheap. Then we got sub mmo player complain it about is, if people remember wildstar? still good content just people wanted harder game then wow end up being to hard for them then back to wow.
Sub mmo not going die, but there be the few out there thats about it, never grew be on it's point anymore.
Perhaps this will help refresh your memory:
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sponge grippy hand?
This could end up being very interesting.
"P2P is the foundation for a fantastic community"
WoW disproved that 10 years ago. Next?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Subscription for optional premium content/access. You do not need to pay a subscription to play either of those games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
P2P by itself isn't working in the current market. Then again neither is B2P. We are in an era of micro transactions. The pendulum will swing in another direction sooner or later.
I missed the data on that. It's true that several games have gone up in subs after transition, but I haven't seen the data that indicates who has those subs, preexisting or new players.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre