All attacks seems to be AoE-based just like in Wildstar. In the video there were attacks that sweeped 135 and 360 degrees and also ranged attacks that were a thin path in front of NPC's, something like 15m in front and 1m in width.
The difference was that these projections had a very short duration and nowhere as big as they were in wildstar.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
There's a chance telegraphs won't make the final cut. I see the leaning a bit closer to Tera's combat. There have been issues with accurately representing the game's physics on projectiles w/ telegraphs.
I'm going to pull this from the Combat FAQ which we updated this morning.
"In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).
Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)
The result – when combined with our voxel terrain and physics based movement systems – is combat sequences that looks more fluid, feel more visceral and require more tactical thinking."
I'm going to pull this from the Combat FAQ which we updated this morning.
"In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).
Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)
The result – when combined with our voxel terrain and physics based movement systems – is combat sequences that looks more fluid, feel more visceral and require more tactical thinking."
It will be very interestign to see how this plays out.
I know I will be paying attention to where this goes! My main apprehension with Crowfall came from what I read about combat in the FAQ. It sounded like WildStar -- and I can't say I was a fan of trading staring at my hotbar for staring at shapes on the ground. It was manageable in single combat situations, but quickly devolved into a pure chaos of shapes and colors when throwing in multiple combatants. I'm not keen to repeat that experience again, personally.
However, I do like most everything else I've heard up to this point. Fortunately, the particular implementation of combat doesn't look too distracting in the video we've seen so far, but I'm glad to hear that the team is receptive to feedback and can still make major adjustments at this point if necessary. It's also reassuring to learn they're heading more towards TERA's combat. I don't mind animation locking too much. It gives you something more real to think about in combat. If I make X move, it will lock me from doing anything else for Y. Having to consider animation times and recovery lend well to healthy action combat, IMO.
Could you attach a link to your post? I'd like to check out the discussion.
What you saw in the video could just be training wheels per say. When your weapon proficiency increase, those wheels could very well come off, the red/blue could be the training wheels for that weapon you just found, swing it a few times and it goes away, by the time it goes away, you better remember how that weapon behaves, it's part of knowing your abilities then, and it adds to the mystery of your opponents abilities.
First, I'm gonna say that you guys are awesome. This is exactly the kind of passion we here in the office have about the game and we love seeing it from you guys as well.
Now, I am working on the combat system and I can confirm that we are leaning toward a more Tera style combat where there will be a reticle for aiming so that you can better target things for ranged combat. What you see in the videos so far is pre-alpha footage and we're still refining the style and flow of combat, so nothing is set in stone yet.
What we want to end up with is more strategic combat where the battlefield commanders can control the flow of combat, the tanks can protect the "weaker" characters, and the more agile characters have more freedom of movement to get around and get things done. Skill should matter, not mashing buttons in a sequence.
Looks like they're going for a Tera style with less movement restrictions on the battefield. Also, Tera style aim/camera control as well. I don't see telegraphs sticking around since it really doesn't work well with reticle aiming - especially for ranged.
I don't like those janky telegraphs either personally, but this is pre-alpha, so even if the telegraphs are kept in I think they'll make them look much better/subtler before release. Other than that, the combat looks good to me. They intend to have physics, player collisions, and friendly fire as well, if it doesn't end up ruining everything. That'll be interesting.
Given, the whole game needs a lot of refining, but its early. I'm so happy that the combat is not tab-target and movement is rewarded; there's nothing inherently wrong with tab target/traditional mmo combat but I personally don't find it fun. This looks like it will be pretty fun when it's fully baked.
I wouldn't mind telegraphs if they were used in moderation, but having one for each basic attack is ridiculous. I know it's because of active dodging and avoiding attacks but isn't it a no-brainer to back up if you want to avoid a melee attack?
Telegraphs could be okay if they were used only for the most dangerous and dramatic attacks, ones you really need to avoid.
What really turns me off on this video is wildstar-ish area of effect attacks. What happend to AoE skills being less effective to single targets? Is that how a skilled swordsman fights against multiple enemies? Spams whirlwind ad nauseam?
How fun can PvP be in this game if everyone spams AoE attacks? Whichever side has the most attacks will win? I'm not an expert regarding PvP games, but i know one of the reasons MMO PvP can be fun is stuns, silences, fears, charms, knowdowns, etc. that interrupts spellcasting and hinders an enemy to give time to focus on the most dangerous or strategically most important opponent., and that's all about having singe target attacks.
I'm going to pull this from the Combat FAQ which we updated this morning.
"In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).
Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)
The result – when combined with our voxel terrain and physics based movement systems – is combat sequences that looks more fluid, feel more visceral and require more tactical thinking."
It will be very interestign to see how this plays out.
I know I will be paying attention to where this goes! My main apprehension with Crowfall came from what I read about combat in the FAQ. It sounded like WildStar -- and I can't say I was a fan of trading staring at my hotbar for staring at shapes on the ground. It was manageable in single combat situations, but quickly devolved into a pure chaos of shapes and colors when throwing in multiple combatants. I'm not keen to repeat that experience again, personally.
However, I do like most everything else I've heard up to this point. Fortunately, the particular implementation of combat doesn't look too distracting in the video we've seen so far, but I'm glad to hear that the team is receptive to feedback and can still make major adjustments at this point if necessary. It's also reassuring to learn they're heading more towards TERA's combat. I don't mind animation locking too much. It gives you something more real to think about in combat. If I make X move, it will lock me from doing anything else for Y. Having to consider animation times and recovery lend well to healthy action combat, IMO.
Could you attach a link to your post? I'd like to check out the discussion.
First, I'm gonna say that you guys are awesome. This is exactly the kind of passion we here in the office have about the game and we love seeing it from you guys as well.
Now, I am working on the combat system and I can confirm that we are leaning toward a more Tera style combat where there will be a reticle for aiming so that you can better target things for ranged combat. What you see in the videos so far is pre-alpha footage and we're still refining the style and flow of combat, so nothing is set in stone yet.
What we want to end up with is more strategic combat where the battlefield commanders can control the flow of combat, the tanks can protect the "weaker" characters, and the more agile characters have more freedom of movement to get around and get things done. Skill should matter, not mashing buttons in a sequence.
So cartoony tablet quality graphics and Wildstar telegraphs.
If that is what "famous veteran industry names" can come up when making "innovative risk-taking mmorpg" then it is gonna take decades for next actual interesting "breaking the mold" MMORPG to come.
The telegraphs and particle effects ruined WS and GW2 for me.
Same here.. All this with no block button is very concerning considering combat is what most people will be doing the majority of the time.
I do believe those can be turned off. I know in GW2 and ESO there is an option to turn them off if you don't like them.
I am not a fan of them being in the game period, but I can understand why they made them optional.
So far with the limited pre-alpha footage provided I am looking forward to see what else they have to offer.
Yep me too. My first thought after the video was "How can i get in?" Since the only date that has been given on the KS is Dec. 2016(alpha and beta same dates given), I'll let this combat design discussion cook a bit before I toss my hat in the ring.
Comments
Link to gameplay video:
We did not see ranged attacks. Let's hope not...
All attacks seems to be AoE-based just like in Wildstar. In the video there were attacks that sweeped 135 and 360 degrees and also ranged attacks that were a thin path in front of NPC's, something like 15m in front and 1m in width.
The difference was that these projections had a very short duration and nowhere as big as they were in wildstar.
Thomas B
I'm going to pull this from the Combat FAQ which we updated this morning.
"In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).
Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)
The result – when combined with our voxel terrain and physics based movement systems – is combat sequences that looks more fluid, feel more visceral and require more tactical thinking."
janii, on 24 Feb 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:
Telegraphs need to go. Never come back.
Combat Animations have zero weight. Exactly what I thought when I saw the art style of this game. Fits perfectly.. fucking sadly.
Even shadowbane has more weight with the animations at this point.
Stop with these instant attacks which only move the arms. Bring the whole body into a fluent swing or slash. Its just a pain to watch. Yes I know that it isnt even alpha, but I just want to point it out as something big.
Black desert is a good example how to perform eye candy on combat. Heavy and fluent attacks. Its simply a joy to watch these animations
This is why we have begun to head towards the Tera end of the combat spectrum. Their combat looks great, however the price you pay is animation locking. The worry about long animation locks is why we tried split body mechanics first. At this stage of the project we can make those large kinds of steering corrections, later on it is much more difficult.
Keep the feedback coming.
It will be very interestign to see how this plays out.
Disappointing.
The telegraphs and particle effects ruined WS and GW2 for me.
Same here.. All this with no block button is very concerning considering combat is what most people will be doing the majority of the time.
I know I will be paying attention to where this goes! My main apprehension with Crowfall came from what I read about combat in the FAQ. It sounded like WildStar -- and I can't say I was a fan of trading staring at my hotbar for staring at shapes on the ground. It was manageable in single combat situations, but quickly devolved into a pure chaos of shapes and colors when throwing in multiple combatants. I'm not keen to repeat that experience again, personally.
However, I do like most everything else I've heard up to this point. Fortunately, the particular implementation of combat doesn't look too distracting in the video we've seen so far, but I'm glad to hear that the team is receptive to feedback and can still make major adjustments at this point if necessary. It's also reassuring to learn they're heading more towards TERA's combat. I don't mind animation locking too much. It gives you something more real to think about in combat. If I make X move, it will lock me from doing anything else for Y. Having to consider animation times and recovery lend well to healthy action combat, IMO.
Could you attach a link to your post? I'd like to check out the discussion.
action combat
twitch
I HAVE LESS THAN ZERO INTEREST !
(deletes all Crowfall browser bookmarks)
I am glad I saw this.
I HATED Wildstar's combat.. I will most likely not back this game if they are going to model that type.
I don't like action combat, never have. (mmo)RPGS are not about twitchy action combat. Its about strategy and character development.
Keep action combat in console games plz.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
I am for one quite pleased to see this, the combat in WildStar was probably the best part of the game. (For me personally)
So I don't mind this one bit.
Tweet at me - Visit my website
New dev post on this exact subject:
First, I'm gonna say that you guys are awesome. This is exactly the kind of passion we here in the office have about the game and we love seeing it from you guys as well.
Now, I am working on the combat system and I can confirm that we are leaning toward a more Tera style combat where there will be a reticle for aiming so that you can better target things for ranged combat. What you see in the videos so far is pre-alpha footage and we're still refining the style and flow of combat, so nothing is set in stone yet.
What we want to end up with is more strategic combat where the battlefield commanders can control the flow of combat, the tanks can protect the "weaker" characters, and the more agile characters have more freedom of movement to get around and get things done. Skill should matter, not mashing buttons in a sequence.
Looks like they're going for a Tera style with less movement restrictions on the battefield. Also, Tera style aim/camera control as well. I don't see telegraphs sticking around since it really doesn't work well with reticle aiming - especially for ranged.
I don't like those janky telegraphs either personally, but this is pre-alpha, so even if the telegraphs are kept in I think they'll make them look much better/subtler before release. Other than that, the combat looks good to me. They intend to have physics, player collisions, and friendly fire as well, if it doesn't end up ruining everything. That'll be interesting.
Given, the whole game needs a lot of refining, but its early. I'm so happy that the combat is not tab-target and movement is rewarded; there's nothing inherently wrong with tab target/traditional mmo combat but I personally don't find it fun. This looks like it will be pretty fun when it's fully baked.
There is already a thread/vote about the whole thing in the official boards.
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2667-telegraphs-need-to-go-new-gameplay-trailer/
So, if you want to raise your voice against it or pro it, thats the way to do that.
Enjoy!
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
I wouldn't mind telegraphs if they were used in moderation, but having one for each basic attack is ridiculous. I know it's because of active dodging and avoiding attacks but isn't it a no-brainer to back up if you want to avoid a melee attack?
Telegraphs could be okay if they were used only for the most dangerous and dramatic attacks, ones you really need to avoid.
What really turns me off on this video is wildstar-ish area of effect attacks. What happend to AoE skills being less effective to single targets? Is that how a skilled swordsman fights against multiple enemies? Spams whirlwind ad nauseam?
How fun can PvP be in this game if everyone spams AoE attacks? Whichever side has the most attacks will win? I'm not an expert regarding PvP games, but i know one of the reasons MMO PvP can be fun is stuns, silences, fears, charms, knowdowns, etc. that interrupts spellcasting and hinders an enemy to give time to focus on the most dangerous or strategically most important opponent., and that's all about having singe target attacks.
I do believe those can be turned off. I know in GW2 and ESO there is an option to turn them off if you don't like them.
I am not a fan of them being in the game period, but I can understand why they made them optional.
So far with the limited pre-alpha footage provided I am looking forward to see what else they have to offer.
Here's more plus the link
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2628-wildstar-action-combat/
First, I'm gonna say that you guys are awesome. This is exactly the kind of passion we here in the office have about the game and we love seeing it from you guys as well.
Now, I am working on the combat system and I can confirm that we are leaning toward a more Tera style combat where there will be a reticle for aiming so that you can better target things for ranged combat. What you see in the videos so far is pre-alpha footage and we're still refining the style and flow of combat, so nothing is set in stone yet.
What we want to end up with is more strategic combat where the battlefield commanders can control the flow of combat, the tanks can protect the "weaker" characters, and the more agile characters have more freedom of movement to get around and get things done. Skill should matter, not mashing buttons in a sequence.
So cartoony tablet quality graphics and Wildstar telegraphs.
If that is what "famous veteran industry names" can come up when making "innovative risk-taking mmorpg" then it is gonna take decades for next actual interesting "breaking the mold" MMORPG to come.
Yep me too. My first thought after the video was "How can i get in?" Since the only date that has been given on the KS is Dec. 2016(alpha and beta same dates given), I'll let this combat design discussion cook a bit before I toss my hat in the ring.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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Currently Playing: ESO