It's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.
But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?! ), thats what matters.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
It's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.
But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?! ), thats what matters.
It does seem to have some parallels with the original Guild Wars, in that game too you could hop from server to server, the only difference is that the servers here will have different conditionals/rule sets and are not 'persistent' in the same way that you get with regular MMO's, so yes, more MMO than MOBA, although the lack of any character creation tools does make the game look more like a MOBA, in that sense its more like Marvel Heroes where you pick a hero and run with it, which may in part, be a reason for some of the confusion
Originally posted by Dauntis Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't knocking the game I was just asking for insight.
You get a lot of angry internet people in this world,try to ignore them.If they like a game and you make ANY indication you don't like even one thing,they bark out at you like your an idiot.
I'll help you out...They can get mad at me instead.
The game is obviously hiding a lot from us for a good reason.What i see so far look like a BUDGET game design,exactly what i expected from this team.
When they are ready to show us more,i will give it a more FAIR assessment .Hey i have not told them to hide anything from me or anyone else,they are obviously keeping some stuff a secret for a reason.
When i see some large open maps and content that is not just pvp related,then it might warrant some favorable review.
I can tell you this much,offline skills is an automatic -3 in my books,so the game is already at maximum of 7/10.Personally it is worse than that,i would not play a game with automated skills i gave Eve the same D rating because of it.IMo a developer that even thinks along those lines is one i don't want developing a game for me.
Seriously where is the plausible logic?I know we all go to bed every night and wake up rocket scientist,so ya it's plausible i guess.pffft.
the plausible logic with the automated skill training is that in a pvp focused game there needs to be a relatively level playing field. having skills passively gain while your not playing enables people that cant play everyday to compete as far as game mechanics go. the time constrained people will probably still lose due to simple fight/play experience, but it wont be because of skill/gear discrepancies. the game isn't like planetside 2 or a moba in this respect because they plan on a skill progressive system of some sort. its also something that enabled eve to thrive because a new player can specialize and compete with the old vets quickly and returning players can pick back up almost instantly....all the while the vets still have a progression system.
the developers are "hiding things" because the game isn't in an alpha state yet....and thus still in that proof of concept stage of development. there would be no point in previewing something that may drastically change or be out right removed a month from now. a perfect example would why were haven't seen any in game footage of the range classes.....they probably don't have any skill animations at all at this point(they even stated that the first stretch goal would enable them to higher more FX design artists)....thus it would be pointless to show said range classes and they can only release what limited information we have seen a this point.
giving eve a D rating(not even going to comment on giving a game a rating that a) you haven't played and b) isn't even in an alpha state) because it has one feature that you don't like also seems a bit closed minded. In order to give a fair review you need to look past your own personal preferences and bias....and rate based on does the game due what the developer intended and how well they accomplished their goal. A personal example for me would be ESO.....i absolutely hate the very concept of solo-centric focused gameplay in an mmo environment.....HATE IT. but that doesn't mean ESO deserves a bad review...the developers goal was story driven leveling content....they accomplished that in spades. the only real fault i can find with the game is the mega-server technology didn't really accomplish anything and caused bugs at launch that could have been avoided had they gone with traditional servers with additional transfer and chat features to accommodate guild functions.
the developer has a progression system planned....in previews they have shown that each "archetype" has 3 sub roles/skill trees and that the character creation has a trait system. whether we can mix and match sub roles hasn't been stated one way or the other yet. also the inclusion of crafting skills and roles also suggests that its not a direct deviation of a moba.
the developers also stated that the focus is almost entirely conquest pvp with faction v faction v faction, 9-12 faction, guild v guild, and FFA style rule sets. this suggest it isn't quite like a mmorpg either. its only mmorpg as in the sense of eve being an mmorpg....which i think is also debatable with the broad use of the term MMO these days.
And the campaigns are dying worlds, so it kinda works with the lore.
But I doubt Crowfall is gonna be like your average mmo, but I won't hate it for that, because I've been wanting change in the genre for a while, so I will wait and see.
It might turn out bad, but it might turn out great too.
We'll see in 2 years time.
I'm a gamer and I play games, not virtual vending machines.
It's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.
But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?! ), thats what matters.
It does seem to have some parallels with the original Guild Wars, in that game too you could hop from server to server, the only difference is that the servers here will have different conditionals/rule sets and are not 'persistent' in the same way that you get with regular MMO's, so yes, more MMO than MOBA, although the lack of any character creation tools does make the game look more like a MOBA, in that sense its more like Marvel Heroes where you pick a hero and run with it, which may in part, be a reason for some of the confusion
Originally posted by Dauntis Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't knocking the game I was just asking for insight.
You get a lot of angry internet people in this world,try to ignore them.If they like a game and you make ANY indication you don't like even one thing,they bark out at you like your an idiot.
I'll help you out...They can get mad at me instead.
The game is obviously hiding a lot from us for a good reason.What i see so far look like a BUDGET game design,exactly what i expected from this team.
When they are ready to show us more,i will give it a more FAIR assessment .Hey i have not told them to hide anything from me or anyone else,they are obviously keeping some stuff a secret for a reason.
When i see some large open maps and content that is not just pvp related,then it might warrant some favorable review.
I can tell you this much,offline skills is an automatic -3 in my books,so the game is already at maximum of 7/10.Personally it is worse than that,i would not play a game with automated skills i gave Eve the same D rating because of it.IMo a developer that even thinks along those lines is one i don't want developing a game for me.
Seriously where is the plausible logic?I know we all go to bed every night and wake up rocket scientist,so ya it's plausible i guess.pffft.
the plausible logic with the automated skill training is that in a pvp focused game there needs to be a relatively level playing field. having skills passively gain while your not playing enables people that cant play everyday to compete as far as game mechanics go. the time constrained people will probably still lose due to simple fight/play experience, but it wont be because of skill/gear discrepancies. the game isn't like planetside 2 or a moba in this respect because they plan on a skill progressive system of some sort. its also something that enabled eve to thrive because a new player can specialize and compete with the old vets quickly and returning players can pick back up almost instantly....all the while the vets still have a progression system.
the developers are "hiding things" because the game isn't in an alpha state yet....and thus still in that proof of concept stage of development. there would be no point in previewing something that may drastically change or be out right removed a month from now. a perfect example would why were haven't seen any in game footage of the range classes.....they probably don't have any skill animations at all at this point(they even stated that the first stretch goal would enable them to higher more FX design artists)....thus it would be pointless to show said range classes and they can only release what limited information we have seen a this point.
giving eve a D rating(not even going to comment on giving a game a rating that a) you haven't played and b) isn't even in an alpha state) because it has one feature that you don't like also seems a bit closed minded. In order to give a fair review you need to look past your own personal preferences and bias....and rate based on does the game due what the developer intended and how well they accomplished their goal. A personal example for me would be ESO.....i absolutely hate the very concept of solo-centric focused gameplay in an mmo environment.....HATE IT. but that doesn't mean ESO deserves a bad review...the developers goal was story driven leveling content....they accomplished that in spades. the only real fault i can find with the game is the mega-server technology didn't really accomplish anything and caused bugs at launch that could have been avoided had they gone with traditional servers with additional transfer and chat features to accommodate guild functions.
the developer has a progression system planned....in previews they have shown that each "archetype" has 3 sub roles/skill trees and that the character creation has a trait system. whether we can mix and match sub roles hasn't been stated one way or the other yet. also the inclusion of crafting skills and roles also suggests that its not a direct deviation of a moba.
the developers also stated that the focus is almost entirely conquest pvp with faction v faction v faction, 9-12 faction, guild v guild, and FFA style rule sets. this suggest it isn't quite like a mmorpg either. its only mmorpg as in the sense of eve being an mmorpg....which i think is also debatable with the broad use of the term MMO these days.
Eve probably has a stronger claim for being an MMO than just about any other MMO out there, in that it actually does have 'thousands' if not tens of thousands of players on the same server, at the same time, although in terms of the same system at the same time, it can only handle something under i believe, 3000, which is still significantly more than any other MMO that currently exists. As for being an MMORPG, as RPG = role playing game, and not fantasy environment simulator, then its also that, as you can be sure that many of the players of Eve are role playing, there are pirates there after all, not to mention industrialists, miners, bounty hunters, etc. etc. Eve probably has more role players than most other games out there
It's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.
But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?! ), thats what matters.
But the world doesn't reset. Eternal Kingdoms are persistent. It's the campaign rings that reset. It's like claiming WOW is a lobby game because Ragefire Chasm is repeatable.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Every post I read makes me wonder more and more why I get sucked into these threads.
The OPs question was perfectly sensible despite the odd way it was approached. Lack of character customization is a legitimate reason for a person to be disappointed. Some of the core mechanics these developers are looking to implement can be compared directly to a game like league of legends. To not connect these dots means you have no place to respond, didn't bother to read the OP, or are just exploiting an opportunity to behave aggressively.
Yet when majority of concerns come from peoples assumptions when they haven't even attempted to find the information. It has been explained more than multiple times (and it reads in the F.A.Q) that characters will be customisable. You can change things like hair, face etc. In addition the game is pre-alpha, they have not made any item sets for characters yet, but they did not want to portray the characters naked, so they made 1 armor model for all characters as a "sample". There was a stream showing creation process of the Duelist archetype model, and there we saw the "naked model" which all archetypes have. The characters will look different with different armors, so even that is nowhere near your Dota/LoL. The next being a lobby one; One campaign is a "server", a server that lasts until it ends or a victory condition is met. These servers all boast a randomly generated maps, so each server will have unique world. These servers will be far from lobbies, as they'll last from months to year(s). In addition lobbies are restricted, once they begin you cannot join them, that is not the case with campaigns in CF.
I'm well aware of the revealed game mechanics, thank you. It's interesting that you've condemned the OP for asking for this information however have chosen to direct the very same information at me when I've not asked for it. Why not just answer the OP's question?
I'm very interested in how Crowfall will be categorized in the MMO genre so I was hoping to see that the OPs question would prompt constructive conversation on the topic but I was disappointed to see mostly OP bashing instead.
As the MMO space evolves the lines between generas begins to blur....
In the beginning MUDs and MMORPG's had a very narrow range of implementations and features as the technical limitations as well as old programming techniques are no-where near what we have now. EQ came out in 1999, the same year as Tony Hawks pro-skater, Shinmue, and Alpha Centari.... You look at the graphics, game-play, and All around general "feel" of those games and they are no-where even NEAR comparable.
However as internet-infastructure, PC hardware, and Modern Programming Methods have continued to improve it's now possible to pretty much make ANYTHING "Massivley Multiplayer". And so we are seeing what used to be a pretty clear-cut genera lines dissapearing. Hell now we have 600+ players and a single Euro Truck Simulator 2 Server with all the Netcode and multi-player functionality slapped in by a game-modder.
Is an instance Lobby game like DDO a Real MMO?
Is something Like Defiance?
Does it really matter?
Personally I'd classify Crowfall as a MMOBA. A "Pure" MMO it may not be, but i still think it'll be fun as hell. Assuming they ever finish it.
Considering a campaign will last 1-3 months and your character is permanent it is hardly a moba. The only thing it shares is that once a campaign or 'match' is over there is a reset.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by CaldicotIt's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?! ), thats what matters.
But the world doesn't reset. Eternal Kingdoms are persistent. It's the campaign rings that reset. It's like claiming WOW is a lobby game because Ragefire Chasm is repeatable.
Every MOBA I've played has some sort of persistent general lobby mainly used as a chat room between matches, so that makes them MMO's in your opinion?
See, I can also make false analogies.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Characters are persistent but are Character LEVELS persistent?
I'd be VERY surprised if they were. That would sorta defeat the point of a map wipe. Not to mention the hunger mechanic. How would you simulate the creatures getting stronger and the world more dangerous if all the players are progression capped after the first campaign.
and i'm not sure what time-limit has to do with genera.
A lobby based game where characters join matches that end after a specific objective is achieved, while gaining levels and participating agianst other players where both your progression and the map is wiped after the game ends.
..... That's a Moba
But i'm giving you the MMO part of it because your playing with and against hundreds of players instead of only a handful.
Its an MMOBA. Characters are somewhat persistent, almost everything else isn't except for the Eternal Kingdom.
This will not be an mmorpg in that it won't be conducive to traditional mmorpg elements or roleplay itself. Think Counterstrike with Elves.
Could be fun, will probably still give it a try, but it won't scratch that itch I've had for nearly a decade for a proper mmorpg.
so D&D is now cunterstrike with elves.
you heard it here first folks
Crowfall is as much D&D as Mario Brothers is Pong.
Well, next time actually THINK what you write and how it is related to what you wrie, because your aswer is just as good as D&D=counterstrike with elves lol
To put into context how strange the question is worded. I'll try an analogy.
Is this a burger or a sandwich? I mean, it doesn't have a tomato in it.
You're talking about a feature that could be in either, or neither genre.
so you say he is wrong with asking that question?
didnt inform myself too much bout crowfall yet, but if it has PREMADE chars.... quite frankly, it sounds more like a PTS to me or a moba than a mmoprg.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
To put into context how strange the question is worded. I'll try an analogy.
Is this a burger or a sandwich? I mean, it doesn't have a tomato in it.
You're talking about a feature that could be in either, or neither genre.
so you say he is wrong with asking that question?
didnt inform myself too much bout crowfall yet, but if it has PREMADE chars.... quite frankly, it sounds more like a PTS to me or a moba than a mmoprg.
Why? RPG games have tons of premade characters. Cloud from FF7? Cecil? What about premade campaigns and characters for Table top D@D? Totally not RPG?
To put into context how strange the question is worded. I'll try an analogy.
Is this a burger or a sandwich? I mean, it doesn't have a tomato in it.
You're talking about a feature that could be in either, or neither genre.
so you say he is wrong with asking that question?
didnt inform myself too much bout crowfall yet, but if it has PREMADE chars.... quite frankly, it sounds more like a PTS to me or a moba than a mmoprg.
It doesn't. It has archetypes but character appearances are customisable, at least according to their FAQ:
4. Can the character appearances be customized?
Yes. We will offer the ability to customize your character (hair styles, color and face) in Character Creation. Further customization can be done in-game, by collecting equipment.
To put into context how strange the question is worded. I'll try an analogy.
Is this a burger or a sandwich? I mean, it doesn't have a tomato in it.
You're talking about a feature that could be in either, or neither genre.
so you say he is wrong with asking that question?
didnt inform myself too much bout crowfall yet, but if it has PREMADE chars.... quite frankly, it sounds more like a PTS to me or a moba than a mmoprg.
It doesn't. It has archetypes but character appearances are customisable, at least according to their FAQ:
4. Can the character appearances be customized?
Yes. We will offer the ability to customize your character (hair styles, color and face) in Character Creation. Further customization can be done in-game, by collecting equipment.
Comments
It's definitely more of an MMORPG than a MOBA (there is character progression, economy etc.) but since the world resets I wouldn't call it an MMORPG in it's fullest sense. A lobby based pvp game is close enough for me given what we know at this point.
But what does it matter anyway, it's something new and it's interesting (Destruction anyone!?!
), thats what matters.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
It does seem to have some parallels with the original Guild Wars, in that game too you could hop from server to server, the only difference is that the servers here will have different conditionals/rule sets and are not 'persistent' in the same way that you get with regular MMO's, so yes, more MMO than MOBA, although the lack of any character creation tools does make the game look more like a MOBA, in that sense its more like Marvel Heroes where you pick a hero and run with it, which may in part, be a reason for some of the confusion
the plausible logic with the automated skill training is that in a pvp focused game there needs to be a relatively level playing field. having skills passively gain while your not playing enables people that cant play everyday to compete as far as game mechanics go. the time constrained people will probably still lose due to simple fight/play experience, but it wont be because of skill/gear discrepancies. the game isn't like planetside 2 or a moba in this respect because they plan on a skill progressive system of some sort. its also something that enabled eve to thrive because a new player can specialize and compete with the old vets quickly and returning players can pick back up almost instantly....all the while the vets still have a progression system.
the developers are "hiding things" because the game isn't in an alpha state yet....and thus still in that proof of concept stage of development. there would be no point in previewing something that may drastically change or be out right removed a month from now. a perfect example would why were haven't seen any in game footage of the range classes.....they probably don't have any skill animations at all at this point(they even stated that the first stretch goal would enable them to higher more FX design artists)....thus it would be pointless to show said range classes and they can only release what limited information we have seen a this point.
giving eve a D rating(not even going to comment on giving a game a rating that a) you haven't played and b) isn't even in an alpha state) because it has one feature that you don't like also seems a bit closed minded. In order to give a fair review you need to look past your own personal preferences and bias....and rate based on does the game due what the developer intended and how well they accomplished their goal. A personal example for me would be ESO.....i absolutely hate the very concept of solo-centric focused gameplay in an mmo environment.....HATE IT. but that doesn't mean ESO deserves a bad review...the developers goal was story driven leveling content....they accomplished that in spades. the only real fault i can find with the game is the mega-server technology didn't really accomplish anything and caused bugs at launch that could have been avoided had they gone with traditional servers with additional transfer and chat features to accommodate guild functions.
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as for the OPs question...its neither
the developer has a progression system planned....in previews they have shown that each "archetype" has 3 sub roles/skill trees and that the character creation has a trait system. whether we can mix and match sub roles hasn't been stated one way or the other yet. also the inclusion of crafting skills and roles also suggests that its not a direct deviation of a moba.
the developers also stated that the focus is almost entirely conquest pvp with faction v faction v faction, 9-12 faction, guild v guild, and FFA style rule sets. this suggest it isn't quite like a mmorpg either. its only mmorpg as in the sense of eve being an mmorpg....which i think is also debatable with the broad use of the term MMO these days.
Well, there is a persistent world.
And the campaigns are dying worlds, so it kinda works with the lore.
But I doubt Crowfall is gonna be like your average mmo, but I won't hate it for that, because I've been wanting change in the genre for a while, so I will wait and see.
It might turn out bad, but it might turn out great too.
We'll see in 2 years time.
I'm a gamer and I play games, not virtual vending machines.
Lack of character creation tools?
Eve probably has a stronger claim for being an MMO than just about any other MMO out there, in that it actually does have 'thousands' if not tens of thousands of players on the same server, at the same time, although in terms of the same system at the same time, it can only handle something under i believe, 3000, which is still significantly more than any other MMO that currently exists. As for being an MMORPG, as RPG = role playing game, and not fantasy environment simulator, then its also that, as you can be sure that many of the players of Eve are role playing, there are pirates there after all, not to mention industrialists, miners, bounty hunters, etc. etc. Eve probably has more role players than most other games out there
But the world doesn't reset. Eternal Kingdoms are persistent. It's the campaign rings that reset. It's like claiming WOW is a lobby game because Ragefire Chasm is repeatable.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm well aware of the revealed game mechanics, thank you. It's interesting that you've condemned the OP for asking for this information however have chosen to direct the very same information at me when I've not asked for it. Why not just answer the OP's question?
I'm very interested in how Crowfall will be categorized in the MMO genre so I was hoping to see that the OPs question would prompt constructive conversation on the topic but I was disappointed to see mostly OP bashing instead.
As the MMO space evolves the lines between generas begins to blur....
In the beginning MUDs and MMORPG's had a very narrow range of implementations and features as the technical limitations as well as old programming techniques are no-where near what we have now. EQ came out in 1999, the same year as Tony Hawks pro-skater, Shinmue, and Alpha Centari.... You look at the graphics, game-play, and All around general "feel" of those games and they are no-where even NEAR comparable.
However as internet-infastructure, PC hardware, and Modern Programming Methods have continued to improve it's now possible to pretty much make ANYTHING "Massivley Multiplayer". And so we are seeing what used to be a pretty clear-cut genera lines dissapearing. Hell now we have 600+ players and a single Euro Truck Simulator 2 Server with all the Netcode and multi-player functionality slapped in by a game-modder.
Is an instance Lobby game like DDO a Real MMO?
Is something Like Defiance?
Does it really matter?
Personally I'd classify Crowfall as a MMOBA. A "Pure" MMO it may not be, but i still think it'll be fun as hell. Assuming they ever finish it.
Every MOBA I've played has some sort of persistent general lobby mainly used as a chat room between matches, so that makes them MMO's in your opinion?
See, I can also make false analogies.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Characters are persistent but are Character LEVELS persistent?
I'd be VERY surprised if they were. That would sorta defeat the point of a map wipe. Not to mention the hunger mechanic. How would you simulate the creatures getting stronger and the world more dangerous if all the players are progression capped after the first campaign.
and i'm not sure what time-limit has to do with genera.
A lobby based game where characters join matches that end after a specific objective is achieved, while gaining levels and participating agianst other players where both your progression and the map is wiped after the game ends.
..... That's a Moba
But i'm giving you the MMO part of it because your playing with and against hundreds of players instead of only a handful.
Its an MMOBA. Characters are somewhat persistent, almost everything else isn't except for the Eternal Kingdom.
This will not be an mmorpg in that it won't be conducive to traditional mmorpg elements or roleplay itself. Think Counterstrike with Elves.
Could be fun, will probably still give it a try, but it won't scratch that itch I've had for nearly a decade for a proper mmorpg.
so D&D is now cunterstrike with elves.
you heard it here first folks
Crowfall is as much D&D as Mario Brothers is Pong.
Well, next time actually THINK what you write and how it is related to what you wrie, because your aswer is just as good as D&D=counterstrike with elves lol
so you say he is wrong with asking that question?
didnt inform myself too much bout crowfall yet, but if it has PREMADE chars.... quite frankly, it sounds more like a PTS to me or a moba than a mmoprg.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Why? RPG games have tons of premade characters. Cloud from FF7? Cecil? What about premade campaigns and characters for Table top D@D? Totally not RPG?
It doesn't. It has archetypes but character appearances are customisable, at least according to their FAQ:
4. Can the character appearances be customized?
Yes. We will offer the ability to customize your character (hair styles, color and face) in Character Creation. Further customization can be done in-game, by collecting equipment.
Source.
Noooooooo, you read the FAQ and informed yourself, youre doing it WRONG!