In my opinion it's the entire linear storyline quest bullshit that is damaging the genre.. I'm sorry, but the console arcade borg players have invaded our genre and are assimilating RPG into their desires.. I wish the single player storyline gamers would go back to their yard and leave mine alone.. I don't want your quest at all.. I don't want to relive and experience a storyline that everyone else follows as well..
I want freedom to choose my own path, my own story and be my own person.. I'm not a clone.
I remember when LotRO was young, the Old Forest section of the map was fairly vague. No paths or anything, just a blob of trees on the map. It was a veritable maze of paths and loops and dead ends. And players complained. About getting lost. In the Old Forest. Think about that for a moment. So Turbine changed it, a nice zoomable map that showed you exactly where you were in the Old Forest and how to get exactly wherever you needed to. *facepalm*
Quest helpers and trackers have a shared culprit with the above, I imagine.
Hah ya, god forbid you try make players use their brain in your game. If those types played chess, they'd complain that every game piece should be able to move like the queen.
Running around in hope to stumble on the thing you need because of crappy directions =/= using your brain, any idiot can do it.
Heaven forbid you get lost and have an actual adventure, instead of performing a task like you're running to the corner store for milk and eggs.
I remember when LotRO was young, the Old Forest section of the map was fairly vague. No paths or anything, just a blob of trees on the map. It was a veritable maze of paths and loops and dead ends. And players complained. About getting lost. In the Old Forest. Think about that for a moment. So Turbine changed it, a nice zoomable map that showed you exactly where you were in the Old Forest and how to get exactly wherever you needed to. *facepalm*
Quest helpers and trackers have a shared culprit with the above, I imagine.
Hah ya, god forbid you try make players use their brain in your game. If those types played chess, they'd complain that every game piece should be able to move like the queen.
Running around in hope to stumble on the thing you need because of crappy directions =/= using your brain, any idiot can do it.
Heaven forbid you get lost and have an actual adventure, instead of performing a task like you're running to the corner store for milk and eggs.
I can have adventure with or without quest trackers. If quest trackers prevents YOU from doing that its your own fault.
I remember when LotRO was young, the Old Forest section of the map was fairly vague. No paths or anything, just a blob of trees on the map. It was a veritable maze of paths and loops and dead ends. And players complained. About getting lost. In the Old Forest. Think about that for a moment. So Turbine changed it, a nice zoomable map that showed you exactly where you were in the Old Forest and how to get exactly wherever you needed to. *facepalm*
Quest helpers and trackers have a shared culprit with the above, I imagine.
Hah ya, god forbid you try make players use their brain in your game. If those types played chess, they'd complain that every game piece should be able to move like the queen.
Running around in hope to stumble on the thing you need because of crappy directions =/= using your brain, any idiot can do it.
Heaven forbid you get lost and have an actual adventure, instead of performing a task like you're running to the corner store for milk and eggs.
I can have adventure with or without quest trackers. If quest trackers prevents YOU from doing that its your own fault.
Wrong, as I already demonstrated in my previous post. In games with a built in quest tracker, quest texts are written taking the tracker into consideration, making it impossible to complete them without the tracker.
But the "adventure" we speak of is not realted to quest itself, nothing prevents you from going opposite way of quest tracker and have adventure. Quest tracker is pretty irrelevant in that matter.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
Because if he did, he'd level slower than his peers and miss out on all the fun...
What's ruining MMOs is impatience... it's like you've got hot coals under your feet or something. The game isn't going anywhere. The big bad boss will still be in the same instance waiting for you 10 years from now. Killing him today or tomorrow makes no difference at all.
Slow down... drink less caffeine... pace yourself... try leveling backwards... you can't run backwards!
If people stop playing mmorpgs like was a race locked in a well define track then maybe the fun factor increase and there wasnt so much nonsense complain around like usually.
Anyway, back in topic, i like to have options in the mmorpgs i play, i like to decide what to do and the way to do. Having helpers is not a problem, players just need to be able to turn off or on, simple, then each one play the way its more fun to them.
The problem of this kind of post is usually its more: "i want to everyone play my way", well i like freedom of choise, my way is slower? so what, as long im enjoy it its all what it matters.
Im playing AA since launch and only now im reaching some objectives that alot of players get them in 1st month, and i dont really care, im enjoying my playtime and its all it matters.
What we need is more options in mmorpgs so each one can adapt to is own playstyle.
I remember when LotRO was young, the Old Forest section of the map was fairly vague. No paths or anything, just a blob of trees on the map. It was a veritable maze of paths and loops and dead ends. And players complained. About getting lost. In the Old Forest. Think about that for a moment. So Turbine changed it, a nice zoomable map that showed you exactly where you were in the Old Forest and how to get exactly wherever you needed to. *facepalm*
Quest helpers and trackers have a shared culprit with the above, I imagine.
Hah ya, god forbid you try make players use their brain in your game. If those types played chess, they'd complain that every game piece should be able to move like the queen.
Running around in hope to stumble on the thing you need because of crappy directions =/= using your brain, any idiot can do it.
Heaven forbid you get lost and have an actual adventure, instead of performing a task like you're running to the corner store for milk and eggs.
I can have adventure with or without quest trackers. If quest trackers prevents YOU from doing that its your own fault.
Wrong, as I already demonstrated in my previous post. In games with a built in quest tracker, quest texts are written taking the tracker into consideration, making it impossible to complete them without the tracker.
But the "adventure" we speak of is not realted to quest itself, nothing prevents you from going opposite way of quest tracker and have adventure. Quest tracker is pretty irrelevant in that matter.
Good point..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually, I have no problem with quest trackers so long as the questor would naturally have that information.
The elves you are trying to protect KNOW exactly where the orcs are coming from. They have lost several scouts securing that information and would be remiss if they didn't give you that information on your map.
The farmer only knows vaguely where the wolves live that have been ravaging his farm. You only get a general direction here.
The poor family who had their daughter stolen by the sidhe have NO IDEA how to locate the sidhe, and only know it was them because of the changeling they left in her stead. For this one you will be following a cold trail.
Actually, I have no problem with quest trackers so long as the questor would naturally have that information....
Have you ever seen a quest tracker working that way?
Additionally, even if you had someone to mark the exact place on your map you wouldn't be able to go traipsing straight through the forests. You'd have to take roads and look for some landmarks to figure out the location. Arrow pointing always unerringly to correct location is more information than you'd ever get in an fantasy MMO unless you had a guide showing the route.
Actually, I have no problem with quest trackers so long as the questor would naturally have that information....
Have you ever seen a quest tracker working that way?
Additionally, even if you had someone to mark the exact place on your map you wouldn't be able to go traipsing straight through the forests. You'd have to take roads and look for some landmarks to figure out the location. Arrow pointing always unerringly to correct location is more information than you'd ever get in an fantasy MMO unless you had a guide showing the route.
HE explained his point, but you cut it out. Yes most quest trackers do work as he suggested, certain objectives give an exact location (a cave or town), others give a general area (indication of where to start your search, which goes along with the point you're trying to make a landmark or point of interest).
OR do you think mapping is strictly a modern practice? As well as understanding how a compass works? Which is what that arrow represents.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually, I have no problem with quest trackers so long as the questor would naturally have that information....
Have you ever seen a quest tracker working that way?
Additionally, even if you had someone to mark the exact place on your map you wouldn't be able to go traipsing straight through the forests. You'd have to take roads and look for some landmarks to figure out the location. Arrow pointing always unerringly to correct location is more information than you'd ever get in an fantasy MMO unless you had a guide showing the route.
HE explained his point, but you cut it out. Yes most quest trackers do work as he suggested, certain objectives give an exact location (a cave or town), others give a general area (indication of where to start your search, which goes along with the point you're trying to make a landmark or point of interest).
OR do you think mapping is strictly a modern practice? As well as understanding how a compass works? Which is what that arrow represents.
No, that arrow represents GPS, which is a strictly modern practise.
Using a compass tells you where is north. Even a professional orienteer can't just follow the arrow of compass and expect to find anywhere. You'll need to be constantly aware of your surroundings, and look for landmarks and map to keep track of your progress. The arrow telling you where to go does not represent compass, it's a GPS.
PS. Sorry if you feel that I cut out the point. I feel that it would have been stupid to quote a wall of text that's just above my post anyway.
No, that arrow represents GPS, which is a strictly modern practise.
Using a compass tells you where is north. Even a professional orienteer can't just follow the arrow of compass and expect to find anywhere. You'll need to be constantly aware of your surroundings, and look for landmarks and map to keep track of your progress. The arrow telling you where to go does not represent compass, it's a GPS.
Both serve the same purpose.... IN something like TOR yes it may be a GPS, in something like Skyrim it is most definitely a compass... It represents your heading in either case, which is more convenience than anything, so you don't have to keep pulling your map out (hitting your map key).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
it's true! I remember when I first played WoW back before they added the quest tracker or helper or whatever you want to call it. It actually required you to read the text. god forbid you actually have to read something in a mmorpg and do a little detective work. it's a role playing game, thats the reason you're playing it, is for the exploration and discovery and lore. Not to go from quest hub to quest hub constantly checking your world map to see where it tells you to go. I remember it being a process and the satisfaction I got from completely the quest on my own, yeah it took longer but it was more immersive and getting to end game actually meant something now it seems like old news.
Another thing i'v noticed recently and this is actually about wild star and a few others like tera and swtor is the transition from zone to to zone is awful. Just the other day i got done with wilderrun in wildstar and teleported back to the main city then teleported to the new zone... what fun is that? you miss the whole world teleporting from spot to spot. Yeah it's fast but it takes away from the open world experience. WoW had it right with all the interconnecting gryffin rides and summoning stones. Yeah once it again it took longer but it was an actual game not just a set of rules
It turned out actually participatingin quests was more enjoyable and offered more interesting decisions than reading text inside a game. Who knew!
It also turned out that participating in the game was more enjoyable than watching a run animation. Who knew!
...well, probably oldschool gamers knew actually. We knew that games should focus on gameplay. We may not have realized early MMORPGs' excessive timesinks were the result of a business model built around selling game time (monthly subscriptions). We may not have made the connection that good gameplay means interesting decisions (and that travel and reading quest text offer almost zero interesting decisions.) But we knew the one thing that mattered: early MMORPGs weren't as fun as games which dished up fun early and often.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
it's true! I remember when I first played WoW back before they added the quest tracker or helper or whatever you want to call it. It actually required you to read the text. god forbid you actually have to read something in a mmorpg and do a little detective work. it's a role playing game, thats the reason you're playing it, is for the exploration and discovery and lore. Not to go from quest hub to quest hub constantly checking your world map to see where it tells you to go. I remember it being a process and the satisfaction I got from completely the quest on my own, yeah it took longer but it was more immersive and getting to end game actually meant something now it seems like old news.
Another thing i'v noticed recently and this is actually about wild star and a few others like tera and swtor is the transition from zone to to zone is awful. Just the other day i got done with wilderrun in wildstar and teleported back to the main city then teleported to the new zone... what fun is that? you miss the whole world teleporting from spot to spot. Yeah it's fast but it takes away from the open world experience. WoW had it right with all the interconnecting gryffin rides and summoning stones. Yeah once it again it took longer but it was an actual game not just a set of rules
It turned out actually participatingin quests was more enjoyable and offered more interesting decisions than reading text inside a game. Who knew!
It also turned out that participating in the game was more enjoyable than watching a run animation. Who knew!
...well, probably oldschool gamers knew actually. We knew that games should focus on gameplay. We may not have realized early MMORPGs' excessive timesinks were the result of a business model built around selling game time (monthly subscriptions). We may not have made the connection that good gameplay means interesting decisions (and that travel and reading quest text offer almost zero interesting decisions.) But we knew the one thing that mattered: early MMORPGs weren't as fun as games which dished up fun early and often.
^^^That too^^^
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Quest helpers and trackers contribute to diffrent game enviroment.
When those tools are in-game players behave diffrently because they are more self-sufficiant.
Generally thought quest helpers and trackers are only a small portion of this. There are many other tools and design decisions that affect mmorpg's/ virtual worlds.
Originally posted by Loke666
To be honest is part of the problem with trackers the fact that they do very badly together with he simple idiot quests we had since Meridian 59 (kill 10 rats in the moat, take this message to my brother who are 10 feets west of me). With long and advanced quests they are far less annoying (but still not good).
Actually it is other way around. When you have complex, sophisticated and engaging quests then you don't need quest trackers at all - gameplay benefit most from not having it.
When you have "go kill 10 rats quest" then it does not benefit much from not having quest tracker.
The simpler the game is the more beneficial is to have quest tracker.
The more complex and engaging game is - the more beneficial is to NOT have quest trackers and helper.
Back when the world was small, people didn't venture all that far from home and they had a pretty good knowledge of where they were and used all kinds of visual cues to orient themselves to walk or ride their horse to where they were going. MMOs drop you into unfamiliar terrain although the story usually has you there as a local resident who should know the area.
It's a lot different looking at a flat 2-D screen and trying to simulate that knowledge and those cues... so we have artificial aids. An MMO without those little helpers doesn't even begin to provide you with a realistic simulation of what you could do in the real world when you have the use of all your senses, peripheral vision and even the warmth of the sun to know if you're heading in the right direction.
MMOs of old were just clunkier in their attempts to simulate real 3-D environments... I enjoy being "ruined."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
it's true! I remember when I first played WoW back before they added the quest tracker or helper or whatever you want to call it. It actually required you to read the text. god forbid you actually have to read something in a mmorpg and do a little detective work. it's a role playing game, thats the reason you're playing it, is for the exploration and discovery and lore. Not to go from quest hub to quest hub constantly checking your world map to see where it tells you to go. I remember it being a process and the satisfaction I got from completely the quest on my own, yeah it took longer but it was more immersive and getting to end game actually meant something now it seems like old news.
Another thing i'v noticed recently and this is actually about wild star and a few others like tera and swtor is the transition from zone to to zone is awful. Just the other day i got done with wilderrun in wildstar and teleported back to the main city then teleported to the new zone... what fun is that? you miss the whole world teleporting from spot to spot. Yeah it's fast but it takes away from the open world experience. WoW had it right with all the interconnecting gryffin rides and summoning stones. Yeah once it again it took longer but it was an actual game not just a set of rules
"Y'ALL GET OFF MY LAWN !"
Lol, I sympathize with the OP actually, but I also understand why things went this way. There's just too many players that are not interested in the lore or story of MMORPG's and/or don't care the slightest about immersion. To them the "open world experience" is just an unfocused waste of time.
The inevitable consequence of increased visual guidance and "quest helper's" is that the quest descriptions and dialogue become so trivial that they are basically useless. You can no longer play the game without the helping mechanisms, because the quest text has been watered-down so much that it tells you nothing of value.
^^^ Exactly what SpottyGekko said. even if you turn off the quest tracker in most games you still can't get away from all the tips and hints and arrows they use to guide you through the game. Quest text has been watered down severely because they know a majority of the players don't read it. they just accept, open world map, go toward the closest quest and then click around for a few moments and find what they need and move on.
I don't agree with this. Wow quests were just about the same quality in terms of text before and after the introduction of quest trackers. If anything the new revamped quests in 1-60 have more compelling stories.
however I agree that it is impossible to play without quest markers as wow doesn't let you turn them off.
I also agree that wow was more immersive in vanilla and tbc before they introduced quest markers. However the majority of people still didn't read the quest text so not much has changed there.
I still ill read the quests even though there are quest markers cause otherwise you miss out on all the story.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Many (I'd daresay most, sadly) players are "brain lazy" and unable or unwilling to follow simple directions.
The only problem of those quest helpers is that they are forced on your. You can't turn them off because nowadays, quest texts are written with those helpers in mind.
Quest text in 2004:
"Go to the NW between the two hills, and you'll find the lair of the mighty lion".
Quest text in 2014:
"Go to the lair of the mighty lion". - the place is marked on your map.
Sad, but inevitable. You can thank the new, lazy, "hand it all to me for free" generation. Makes me even more proud to have been young and discovered computers and gaming in the 70s and 80s and not now.
Dang, another good example is mobile games. On the google play store, you regularly have such comments for games that are worth $2 or less:
"Very nice game, but too expensive".
Seriously?
That really pisses me off too. God forbid a game cost anything on mobile. People complain about games which cost £2 and which deliver something like 5-10 hours of gameplay, how cheap are those people. I can imagine what the comments are on Google play about excom which is £10... It's a bit better on iOS, as people are more willing to pay more money and don't expect the world for only £2 lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Quests in general ruin my immersion. I am done with having NPC robots lead me around virtual worlds. I didn't do quests in EQ1 (well I did some real hard ones like PoP progression, that's it), I didn't do them in Anarchy Online or Darkfall and I sure as hell don't do them in Eve now. *I* decide what I want to do in games, it is orders of magnitude more fun that way.
Any MMO that looks like it wants to lead the players around by the nose, reducing them to NPC errand boys, I won't touch with a ten foot pole.
I dunno, mixed bag for me. I play to progress, not to adventure, so these assist in my progression goals and I tend to favor them.
But I do understand, after a while you feel like all you are doing is following the yellow brick road, and it becomes more of a grind than anything else.
Wonder if there's a happy medium in between, more of an assistant rather than taking you by the hand completely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
it's true! I remember when I first played WoW back before they added the quest tracker or helper or whatever you want to call it. It actually required you to read the text. god forbid you actually have to read something in a mmorpg and do a little detective work. it's a role playing game, thats the reason you're playing it, is for the exploration and discovery and lore. Not to go from quest hub to quest hub constantly checking your world map to see where it tells you to go. I remember it being a process and the satisfaction I got from completely the quest on my own, yeah it took longer but it was more immersive and getting to end game actually meant something now it seems like old news.
Another thing i'v noticed recently and this is actually about wild star and a few others like tera and swtor is the transition from zone to to zone is awful. Just the other day i got done with wilderrun in wildstar and teleported back to the main city then teleported to the new zone... what fun is that? you miss the whole world teleporting from spot to spot. Yeah it's fast but it takes away from the open world experience. WoW had it right with all the interconnecting gryffin rides and summoning stones. Yeah once it again it took longer but it was an actual game not just a set of rules
If by "MMO" you mean YOUR immersion, then sure.
No he was talking about RPG...R=ROLE p=PLAYING.We all know the three letters MMO means absolutely NOTHING now a days.
If you are following quest trackers and markers on a map ,it is a game on rails and NOT YOUR game,it is SUPPOSE to be YOUR ROLE PLAYING game ,but since it is laid out for EVERY single player to play identical ,it fails in it's design,weather you like to admit it or not.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
In my opinion it's the entire linear storyline quest bullshit that is damaging the genre.. I'm sorry, but the console arcade borg players have invaded our genre and are assimilating RPG into their desires.. I wish the single player storyline gamers would go back to their yard and leave mine alone.. I don't want your quest at all.. I don't want to relive and experience a storyline that everyone else follows as well..
I want freedom to choose my own path, my own story and be my own person.. I'm not a clone.
Heaven forbid you get lost and have an actual adventure, instead of performing a task like you're running to the corner store for milk and eggs.
I can have adventure with or without quest trackers. If quest trackers prevents YOU from doing that its your own fault.
But the "adventure" we speak of is not realted to quest itself, nothing prevents you from going opposite way of quest tracker and have adventure. Quest tracker is pretty irrelevant in that matter.
If people stop playing mmorpgs like was a race locked in a well define track then maybe the fun factor increase and there wasnt so much nonsense complain around like usually.
Anyway, back in topic, i like to have options in the mmorpgs i play, i like to decide what to do and the way to do. Having helpers is not a problem, players just need to be able to turn off or on, simple, then each one play the way its more fun to them.
The problem of this kind of post is usually its more: "i want to everyone play my way", well i like freedom of choise, my way is slower? so what, as long im enjoy it its all what it matters.
Im playing AA since launch and only now im reaching some objectives that alot of players get them in 1st month, and i dont really care, im enjoying my playtime and its all it matters.
What we need is more options in mmorpgs so each one can adapt to is own playstyle.
Good point..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually, I have no problem with quest trackers so long as the questor would naturally have that information.
The elves you are trying to protect KNOW exactly where the orcs are coming from. They have lost several scouts securing that information and would be remiss if they didn't give you that information on your map.
The farmer only knows vaguely where the wolves live that have been ravaging his farm. You only get a general direction here.
The poor family who had their daughter stolen by the sidhe have NO IDEA how to locate the sidhe, and only know it was them because of the changeling they left in her stead. For this one you will be following a cold trail.
Have you ever seen a quest tracker working that way?
Additionally, even if you had someone to mark the exact place on your map you wouldn't be able to go traipsing straight through the forests. You'd have to take roads and look for some landmarks to figure out the location. Arrow pointing always unerringly to correct location is more information than you'd ever get in an fantasy MMO unless you had a guide showing the route.
HE explained his point, but you cut it out. Yes most quest trackers do work as he suggested, certain objectives give an exact location (a cave or town), others give a general area (indication of where to start your search, which goes along with the point you're trying to make a landmark or point of interest).
OR do you think mapping is strictly a modern practice? As well as understanding how a compass works? Which is what that arrow represents.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I like them just fine THANK YOU! Especially when I don't have a lot of time to look around or I am soloing.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
No, that arrow represents GPS, which is a strictly modern practise.
Using a compass tells you where is north. Even a professional orienteer can't just follow the arrow of compass and expect to find anywhere. You'll need to be constantly aware of your surroundings, and look for landmarks and map to keep track of your progress. The arrow telling you where to go does not represent compass, it's a GPS.
PS. Sorry if you feel that I cut out the point. I feel that it would have been stupid to quote a wall of text that's just above my post anyway.
Both serve the same purpose.... IN something like TOR yes it may be a GPS, in something like Skyrim it is most definitely a compass... It represents your heading in either case, which is more convenience than anything, so you don't have to keep pulling your map out (hitting your map key).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It turned out actually participating in quests was more enjoyable and offered more interesting decisions than reading text inside a game. Who knew!
It also turned out that participating in the game was more enjoyable than watching a run animation. Who knew!
...well, probably oldschool gamers knew actually. We knew that games should focus on gameplay. We may not have realized early MMORPGs' excessive timesinks were the result of a business model built around selling game time (monthly subscriptions). We may not have made the connection that good gameplay means interesting decisions (and that travel and reading quest text offer almost zero interesting decisions.) But we knew the one thing that mattered: early MMORPGs weren't as fun as games which dished up fun early and often.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
^^^That too^^^
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I like the quest helpers and trackers. They are not ruining the game for me, or how I play.
Quest helpers and trackers contribute to diffrent game enviroment.
When those tools are in-game players behave diffrently because they are more self-sufficiant.
Generally thought quest helpers and trackers are only a small portion of this. There are many other tools and design decisions that affect mmorpg's/ virtual worlds.
Actually it is other way around. When you have complex, sophisticated and engaging quests then you don't need quest trackers at all - gameplay benefit most from not having it.
When you have "go kill 10 rats quest" then it does not benefit much from not having quest tracker.
The simpler the game is the more beneficial is to have quest tracker.
The more complex and engaging game is - the more beneficial is to NOT have quest trackers and helper.
Back when the world was small, people didn't venture all that far from home and they had a pretty good knowledge of where they were and used all kinds of visual cues to orient themselves to walk or ride their horse to where they were going. MMOs drop you into unfamiliar terrain although the story usually has you there as a local resident who should know the area.
It's a lot different looking at a flat 2-D screen and trying to simulate that knowledge and those cues... so we have artificial aids. An MMO without those little helpers doesn't even begin to provide you with a realistic simulation of what you could do in the real world when you have the use of all your senses, peripheral vision and even the warmth of the sun to know if you're heading in the right direction.
MMOs of old were just clunkier in their attempts to simulate real 3-D environments... I enjoy being "ruined."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't agree with this. Wow quests were just about the same quality in terms of text before and after the introduction of quest trackers. If anything the new revamped quests in 1-60 have more compelling stories.
however I agree that it is impossible to play without quest markers as wow doesn't let you turn them off.
I also agree that wow was more immersive in vanilla and tbc before they introduced quest markers. However the majority of people still didn't read the quest text so not much has changed there.
I still ill read the quests even though there are quest markers cause otherwise you miss out on all the story.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
That really pisses me off too. God forbid a game cost anything on mobile. People complain about games which cost £2 and which deliver something like 5-10 hours of gameplay, how cheap are those people. I can imagine what the comments are on Google play about excom which is £10... It's a bit better on iOS, as people are more willing to pay more money and don't expect the world for only £2 lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Quests in general ruin my immersion. I am done with having NPC robots lead me around virtual worlds. I didn't do quests in EQ1 (well I did some real hard ones like PoP progression, that's it), I didn't do them in Anarchy Online or Darkfall and I sure as hell don't do them in Eve now. *I* decide what I want to do in games, it is orders of magnitude more fun that way.
Any MMO that looks like it wants to lead the players around by the nose, reducing them to NPC errand boys, I won't touch with a ten foot pole.
Why? Cause after playing wow every other mmo seems like crap?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I dunno, mixed bag for me. I play to progress, not to adventure, so these assist in my progression goals and I tend to favor them.
But I do understand, after a while you feel like all you are doing is following the yellow brick road, and it becomes more of a grind than anything else.
Wonder if there's a happy medium in between, more of an assistant rather than taking you by the hand completely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
No he was talking about RPG...R=ROLE p=PLAYING.We all know the three letters MMO means absolutely NOTHING now a days.
If you are following quest trackers and markers on a map ,it is a game on rails and NOT YOUR game,it is SUPPOSE to be YOUR ROLE PLAYING game ,but since it is laid out for EVERY single player to play identical ,it fails in it's design,weather you like to admit it or not.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.