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What ever happend to camping for xp?
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The games are not set up that way because people do not think spawn camping is proper content or good pastime.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You're not really looking too deeply are you?
The games are not set up that way because they have evolved into quest grinders. That doesn't automatically make everyone love quest grinding now does it? So I'm not clear where your answer is really coming from?
There are hosts of people who hate quest grinders. That doesn't minimize or negate those who love quest grinding now does it?
Perhaps because of games like WoW that helped bring mmo's to public consciousness one could very well say that more people like quest grinding. Part of that is because that's what they know and that's what a variety of mmo's since WoW built their progression around.
But those are different groups of people. There are still people who enjoy earlier methods of progression whether that's solo grinding, grinding in groups or camping mobs.
Additionally, this is not to say that the groups are mutually exclusive.
But "again" just because one method of character progression is the majority of any game's game play doesn't mean that "all people agree that is the best method of game play.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think I'm actually slightly weirder than most. I love camping, but hate socializing. I camp alone primarily, preferably. I got so excited about my reward from a several hour session of it that I recorded and posted a video of the results.
voluntarily camped for several hours for an item that I could have replaced with something twice as good with half as long spent grinding money.
Like it or not, people like me exist, and play games.
Although I am inclined to think we are no longer the dominant demographic.
You never were the dominant demographic. Its why WoW took off so well.
Did you just waste your time trying to portray a logical argument with one of those unwoken ones? I forget and do that sometimes too.
It's not that simple. Folks enjoyed what they thought of progress. Yes, they jumped ship. Only to see the old genres die to unsupportable numbers (numbers are required for solicalization and camping and a lot of good solid RPG play).
Now we are all stuck. There is no were to return back to with the numbers required to sustain it. If we all decided one day to jump ship to a new one of that old genre (or an old one that was updated with some of the modern expectations without the modern gameplay that is so derailing to RPGs) we would have the new Wow. Until then, folks stay in Wow because it is the best of its type, but a WHOLE lot more people play MMOs these days and in reaslity Wow is not nor has it ever really been the only game in town.
Once upon a time EVERYONE (with exception of a few who never found their way) played EQ, UO, or AC. Then DAOC.
Wow always shared the limelight with those in the early days, along with EQII. Then a HOST of others that have come sense. Sure it enjoyed the largest numbers by far. Wow is a good game, but it is not an RPG. Never was, but at first we didn't realize that.
The thing is that spawn camping isn't very challenging and therefor should be rewarded thereafter.
It is together with grinding stupid rat killing and FEDEX quests the worst parts of MMOs for me. Sure, we did socialize a bit while waiting for the next mobs to spawn but what makes a game fun is risk Vs rewards.
Going out to hunt things are fine but staying for others in the same spot and waiting for the exact same mobs to spawn over and over isn't my way of having fun.
There are far better places for people to socialize, like a marketor in the guildhall.
Risk vs. rewards? If I complete this - I get X (well I might need to do it a maximum number of times before the game mechanics ensure the RND)??
Except all of what you just posted is wrong. Not everyone would have jumped ship from EQ to WoW if they enjoyed EQ more than WoW. And in fact not everyone did jumpship from EQ to WoW. It's just as you said, alot of the old genres died out to unsupportable numbers. That's a clear indication that as i said, the people who enjoyed grinding/camping were never the majority. Which is all i said with my comment.
Yes, once upon a time, everyone did play EQ, UO, AC and DAOC. Because there was no other type of game to play. Once upon a time, everyone rode around in wagons drawn by horses. And then the automobile was made. Case in point.
Eventually(and hypothetically), we'll be looking back giggling at how inefficient automobiles were and wondering how people ever got around in them without flying cars/spaceships. It's how the world works.
I dont think anyone jumps ship, the fact that new games are not being made that makes people leave the old games is the reason people stay in old outdated games while some just leave the whole genre all together or game hop along until a new game that has what they want in it is developed.
I can only speak for myself, but the fact is I don't want to stay in outdated games. I want a new game that has xp caming in it with new graphics with new dungeons, with new content. Just hopping along until then, looking for the new game with my xp camping.
Just cause people dont want to stay in outdated games is no reason to say people dont like that style. After all I think the last real game with xp camping was almost 10 years old now.... cant expect anyone to stay in an old game that long without having something new.
How "deep" are you looking? Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, MMO's before WoW didn't do so well precisely because of boring, repetitive gameplay like this?
Apart from resource gathering, spawncamping is the simplest and most monotonous content you can have in a game! Anything is better than spawncamping.
You cannot set the bar any lower for the developer if this is what you want. It wouldn't really be an issue to make it for them, if people wanted this. So why don't they do it? -The people don't want it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Plenty of spawn camps were plenty challenging, what with mana management, patrols, trains, nameds, and different cons. Zone knowledge, CC, and skilled pullers were important for a reason. If they were as zero risk vs reward as is being suggested then individuals would not have had reputations for doing the job so well.
Just fighting to a spawn could be challenging in it's own right. Just getting to a group could easily get you killed. For XP. And the loss of your corpse.
Spawn camping could, and did, easily include a risk vs reward. I don't really understand this comment.
Have to disagree here. If I understand what you mean by marketor anyhow. I would rather be meeting new people in the open world alongside my existing friends and allies while scoring nice XP and maybe some loot while I socialise.
I hate locking myself away inside a tiny guild community while I solo my way through the levels, being handed 'participation' loot like some 'everybody wins' participation medal at school sports day. The game world should have so much more to offer than that.
The only thing good about camping for exp is you can share the exp with other player in party. Which make the game good as multiplayer.
Quest grind ? nah , you can't share the reward nor share the quest that other ready done it.
What ever you look at it , camping (mob grind) is make for MMORPG , try difference and you get wow killers lol.
I think I'm going deeply enough to recognize that you aren't really following the "progression and evolution" of mmo's.
Because, if I were to take your argument at face value it would support the idea that millions of people knew about everquest and Ultima Online, knew about the game play and decided that those games weren't for them. Then WoW comes along and suddenly they see the light and all flock to WoW.
But that's just not even remotely true.
mmo's were the realm of geeky people, original adopters of the net, people who followed along on what was happening in online games. Small amounts of people. Heck, I played video games and knew nothing of any online games at the time.
When WoW came on the scene Blizzard wanted to make more streamlined game play, having quests in the same map area, not having players run for hours not having long progressions to cap.
but again, that's not what drew average people to wow.
WoW gained in numbers because it was well made and did have, for the time, a new type of game play. That drew in gamers but didn't make it the juggernaut it is today. Their marketing, their putting the game into the public mind, them making the game seem like a "social thing" rather than "geeky video gaming" is what drew in all those people.
Then those people show up and experience wow game play and that is what they were weened on.
As far as simple, monotonous game play I find it hard to believe you find spawn camping more simple and monotonous than running to ! grabbing 5 quests (many don't even read the text) openign up the map, running to glowing area, killing 5 of something, - probably all far enough away so that there never is any chance of danger and either running back to ? or getting a popup stating "YOU'VE FINISHED THE QUEST/COLLECT REWARD" and rinse and repeat.
I find it hard to believe you feel that is more challenging and engaging.
What I would say, is that if one were to look at what actually goes on in a camping/grinding group OR what actually goes on with quests where players actually read and get immersed in the lore, then there is a bit more involved.
But if you want to boil it down to some base actions I can confidently say that neither option sounds appealing when viewed through your lens.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There will always be some random elements in MMOs. But the harder the better drop list should a boss have.
And camping something to kill it over and over is rarely very hard even if there have been exceptions. And you should get less XP and less good loot for doing something simple many times instead of doing some hard stuff.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Could you imagine camping exp spots today? Why did the tank die?
"Sorry was checking Twitter" , "Sorry was checking facebook", "Sorry was checking comments on my stream", "Sorry was.."
You're saying this as if we didn't have our own variety of excuses 15 years ago?
OT: While I participated in camping and usually enjoyed my time there (depending on the group), I disliked then, as I do now, having to rely on others to enjoy my time in a game.
One thing I have trouble with in any game is "watching the XP bar" for the sole purpose of leveling up. For me, my journey is never about Level A to Level Z, but rather more based on area to area or quest to quest. Camping mobs just does not make an enjoyable "journey" for me. Strangely, though, making metal bits in order to improve to metal sheets, and so on in crafting I enjoy. Maybe the difference is doing crafting on my own and relying on others when I log in?
In any event, I think this is a "thing from the past" which may never see the light of day again. It is entirely possible, but I just do not see it happening. Just my thoughts on "Camping."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Yeah, because having the game light up beacons telling you where to go, dragging you by the nose to a wolf camp, kill 5 wolves, run back to town, rinse repeat for 60 levels, that's far superior, right?
At leasst mob grinding gave you freedom to fight where you wanted, socialize, and choose your own challenge.