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Musings of an MMO Vet
nolf
Member UncommonPosts: 869
I see a lot of "rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia" vs. "MMO nooblets" discussions flying around. In reading some of these threads here and on a few of the forums of games I am currently playing, it got me thinking about how this all started for me.
And why it sometimes tastes so sour. Not just the MMO experience, but the divide between the new and the old, in terms of when people started their MMO gaming lives.
I had a roommate my freshman year in college who I don't believe ever left our dorm room. He was an EQ addict. I don't know any other word for it; he was addicted. Whenever I hear of some kid in Korea starving to death in an internet cafe, I think about this guy. For about 6 months I watched with horror and disgust as he became smellier and smellier and more socially withdrawn from the world around him. I didn't have a super high opinion of the MMO genre at the time. I ended up buying a copy and starting a character to try to connect with him on some level. It's how we became friends, but I was terrible at the game (didn't understand core concepts like "The Trinity" and what things like "Tank" meant) and I'm pretty sure I spent more time doing corpse runs than anything else. I didn't get much out of my initial stint with EQ (I later found a love for it), other than being quasi-forced into this new genre I hadn't heard anything about.
Much like first love, everyone holds a special place in their heart from their first true MMO experience. I know for me, it changed what I expected from a video game experience. I never looked back.
My first REAL MMO experience came a few years after my first stint in EQ (which at the time was more of an attempt at intervention for a stranger I was forced to live with). I remember the first time I logged into an MMORPG that I had sought out and decided to play just for my own pure personal enjoyment. SWG. I spent about an hour making my first character. For some reason, I needed it to be just right. For the first time I was handed a tool-set to make damn near whatever I wanted to, and man did I spend time looking at every possibility. Anyway, I finally finished creating my character and onto the server I went. I got to choose my starting skill set and which city my character would be born into. My Wookie Brawler popped into Coronet, the capital city of Corellia, and I was overwhelmed. I spent the next 3 or so hours just wandering everywhere I could go in the city. Eventually I found some low level mobs I could punch to death. Wait, is that a knife in my inventory? *stabstabstab* After a time I literally had no idea what to do next. So I did what any logical person would do in this situation.
I asked in chat.
Me: I've seen this whole city, what am I supposed to do now?
Someone: WHATEVER YOU WANT.
Those of us who were un/fortunate enough (completely a matter of perspective) to experience what is considered the "early days" of MMO gaming were treated to a wonderful and brutal tossing to the wolves. And I believe my first real random interaction in my first real MMO gaming experience sums that up perfectly. There were no tutorials, mission-giver markers, online wiki guides or anything of the like.
It was thousands upon thousands of people being dumped into a new world and being left to figure out how it all worked; and often times DIDN'T work.
Me: What do you mean whatever I want? What am I SUPPOSED to do?
Someone: You're SUPPOSED to do whatever you want. I'm in a group headed for what we heard is a warzone south of here. Want to come?
Hell yes I did! This naked, ill-equipped newborn Wookie brawler couldn't wait to find a stormtrooper to punch in the face with his starter knife. For the better part of 4 hours, 20 of us braved the virgin wilds of Coronet. No one had any real idea where this supposed battlefield was. A guy apparently knew a guy who knew a guy who gave him rough coordinates to it. We wandered mostly aimlessly, in the general direction we thought we were meant to go. We stumbled onto groups of mobs that we went to town on, and it maybe took a time or two to learn that not everything in the world was beatable just yet. But right out of the clone station, we headed right back out to our supposed destination. Eventually, we came upon the battlefield. And I shit you not, a lagfest ensued that could only be described as fearing your computer was breathing its last breath, and in less than 5 seconds we were popping back up in a clone station while reading a system message about how some turret just killed us. We spent 4 hours together to get there, only to be shipped back in 5 seconds. That was the beginning of a guild that lasted for over TEN YEARS (through a dozen games), and a few friendships that will last our lifetimes.
This is what made those games back then both great and terrible at the same time. That feeling of being lost in a virtual world, banding together to do some random shit, only to have it all blow up in our face because it was bugged to all hell because we were in a game with so many broken parts they made it into a new game instead of fixing it. But even in a broken game that didn't even know you had a hand that needed to be held, some of my most memorable and fun gaming experiences took place. This was because the content we experienced was created by US. We were given the tools to have a good time, but it was on US to make that happen. And WE DID, despite many of those tools being broken and useless. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a case for games without content. I am, however, making a case for player-driven content being a necessity for a great MMO.
I think when nostalgia starts creeping up on us, we are generally thinking about how amazing it was to first experience these kinds of things. I, for one, am glad I got those experiences on old broken games that had no time for hand holding or polish. Or working game features. I am glad my first experiences didn't train me to look for exclamation points and question marks and quest hubs. Or to run the exact same content that every other player to ever play the game ran. I am glad that my experiences encouraged me to band together with strangers and EXPLORE. And die. And die some more. But that was all part of the fun, the danger.
What gets lost in this discussion a lot of the times, is that we want our cake and eat it too. Yes, we think most of these newer MMOs suck sweaty donkey balls. No, we do not think all of these wonderful new features are without their merit. If we could get a new game that TRULY captures what those old days were like with all these bells and whistles. A game that doesn't just reward grouping, but necessitates it. A game with built-in systems to bring players together, instead of making the whole thing solo-able. A game to get lost in. A game that fosters a sense of community....I would like to say we'd love every one of the advances our genre has made.
But would we? Is our current community something we want to be forced into? The vast majority of what used to be a niche in gaming has now since exploded in size and has been trained to follow the path to look for the next quest hub. Trained that MMOs should be delivered in bite-sized, lunch-hour break time periods. Trained that content generation is a burden and that it is to be shouldered solely by the developers. Granted, that is what the majority of the community is paying for now, but could it be the like it was in the old days in the right game?
And even if they do make that perfect game....would it ever live up to our first love, or are we truly reaching for the unattainable? Would these folks who came into the genre later in the game ever be able to feel that sense of wonder and unity in the face of being overwhelmed and underprepared, or would they just run to the forums to QQ over not getting the instant gratification of an easy victory between dinner and dessert? Would these folks even accept the notion that we are partially responsible for content generation, and that it is indeed the best content one can find?
I wish we could have our cake and also eat it, but it seems like an awful lot to expect from developers.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Comments
This isn't rose coloured glasses though, games weren't min-maxed and mapped out as much and people were generally less fussy about a lot because they didn't know any better. Someone posted a few weeks ago that it is the mystery that they are trying to recapture but there is little left. I'd say ironically games are deliberately trying to remove mystery in that they seek balance and fairness which is arguably its antithesis.
This sums it up pretty perfectly.
OP, you need to think about not only the games you were playing back then, but the CLIMATE that you played them in. When MMOs first started to become a thing was during a time when the internet was also still very much growing into... well we didn't know what it would become at the time. Many people still had dial-up, and while there were fan sites for various MMOs, it wasn't anywhere near what we have today.
Back then it was common to spend months just trying to figure out what was actually in the game. People would also often worry about messing up their characters because they didn't know any better, and didn't want to waste months of time spent lvling just to remake due to a mistake. Now? Regardless of how good a game is, all it's mysteries are discovered within days of release. Sometimes even prior to release, depending on how good the datamining is. And it's all up there on the internet for everyone to see.
The irony is that most of what we used to do back in the 'golden age' of MMOs, you can still do in modern games. We just don't anymore. Largely because we are no longer forced to, but also because of incentives. We are creatures driven by incentives, and as a result we will often choose the easiest / most seemingly convenient method to get what we want. Unfortunately when it comes to MMOs, that generally means ignoring 90% of the game's content, looking up spoilers for much of the rest, and skipping what can be skipped to 'get the loot' or reward at the end of the tunnel. A lot of gamers no longer play these games for the journey, they skip the journey to play for the rewards.
It's backwards, but we are as much to blame for it as the developers / games themselves.
Your comment about the overall climate is ABSOLUTELY true. Napster was still a thing, ffs. You're absolutely right. We had no idea the internet would degrade into a nest of social networks infested by inaccurate articles with click-bait titles. Upon considering this, I think MMOs might be fairing far better than the rest of the web.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Congrats, you win the "first person to mention WoW in this thread" award!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I'd rather "win something" for pointing out there was a generation of multi-player rpg fans 10 years before EQ, but ok, thanks.
edit: I should amend it to "mp rpg computer games". Yes, I'm aware there was pnp in the 70s.
There was a time I too thought it was not likely that we could ever truly have that feeling again that we got from the early games in this genre. I was pretty skeptical indeed.
Then I played Vanguard, and for all its failings, I felt very much like I did as a teenager playing EverQuest. That open ended sense of adventure, the overwhelming number of options which left me just wandering in some direction and talking to random npcs or killing random mobs in a place where few other people traveled.
I'm now certain that if done in similar fashion, barring all technical and other difficulties, that another game could come along and give us those same feelings of wonder and mystery. As long as they get rid of the training wheels, stop trying predict and control what players do and bring back the danger that was consistent with all early video games, it will invoke the same feeling of wonder and spark our imaginations once again. Would it be find it better or even more captivating than our first love? Maybe not. I still enjoy the holidays, but not like I did when I was 10. Yet I look forward to it every year and I'm always sad when its over.
This is actually false.FFXI one of the first major MMORPG's uses a same level or within a couple levels for it's pvp based system.Since that time games have actually gone the OTHER way making it LESS fair.
Some games constantly claim balancing yet have systems that make balancing not work.Perfect example is ZERG type pvp,how can you ever balance that?Some games even allow vast level differences and separate pvp gear that one might have more of or better of than it;s opponent/s.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If by one of the first you mean first 10 lol. come on.
Rose tinted glasses was in quotes because thats the side of the argument I keep seeing, just for the record. Not how I see myself, or "us vets."
lolThanks man!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
It's this bit that first got me excited about the elder scrolls games.
Morrowind was the first game where I didn't log in and "strictly follow the story". Heck you could even mimimize your part in "the story".
That was so novel for me. Looking around at the horizon thinking "I"m on my own?"
So when I first started mmo's this is what i thought mmo worlds would bring. But I was a bit wrong.
Still, it's nice meeting people and having mini-little adventures. I"m still waiting for my "morrowind online".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't get my hopes up when it comes to MMOs anymore, we all know the state of things.
Hearing about ESO when it was announced was as close as I've gotten in a long while, though.
Still waiting on that same kind of freedom. I definitely had Skyrim Online in mind.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Love your post Nolf, I miss real mmo's too.
Anyway, ESO is the most liner game I had ever played.
This is how you play it :
First you have the starting area up to about level 3, then you move to your first real zone level 4-10. Your allowed to quest two levels at a time by moving across the map either bottom to top or left to right. Don't try going too far because you will be above your level. When the content gets a little easer proceed farther to the right. When you get to level 10 you'll be strong enough to run the entire zone to collect your crafting mats. Then you can move to the 11-20 zone and so on......Don't bother making any friends because your on a mega server and never see them again.......Don't bother joining a Guild because you don't need one its liner, just move left to right .......MMO my Butt !!
I can honestly say I haven't spent one moment in ESO. Since it's gone F2P, I've considered it. But I've seen enough gameplay vids to know I've already played this game more times than I can count.
Thanks for the love, delete.
Maybe one day we'll get an MMO with the soul of the old school and the polish of the new.
And then we can ruin it all by QQing on the forums until they change it to something we're all already sick of!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
That would be nice Nolf
MMORPG Vets:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
First of all, I never went on the attack on modern MMORPGs. In fact, if I read myself correctly, I am hoping to see the new polish and features in my "ideal" game. So don't put words in my mouth.
The point you are missing here, is that what seems to be left behind is the idea that the journey in and of itself can be rewarding, not just the destination.
You consider my 4 hour jaunt into the unknown as non-gameplay? It was a band of noobs huddling together to brave the unknown and form the foundation of a bond that lasted over a decade of games, the RL friendships formed lasting our lifetimes.
It is no more possible to argue with the sort of logic that sees no value in that adventure than you accuse the viewpoint that you put into my mouth is.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
If you're a "oldschool" gamer I suspect your playstyle has changed allot?
While ESO is nothing like a oldschoolgame it definitly doesn't have to be played that linear as delete5230 makes it out to be. Atleast in my opinion.
Also in older MMORPG's we had area's/worlds/planets that were above your level/skill. And like ESO you where still able to explore but obvious not able to do much more except some harvesting.
Making friends doesn't really matter if it's a 3k server or megaserver. Multible way's to connect to them. Not really sure what your issue is on this.
Regardless if a game is linear or more open some players like to be guilded no matter what. Overcome challenges together, create their own challenges.
While I don't like the direction this genre has gone into I feel I am still that old school player, I still find my own niche even in those so-called linear games.
OP: Really enjoyed your post...brought back some great memories..
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am similar to you, in that I try to find my own niche in games. Hell, right now I'm playing SWTOR again, and that is as hand-holding themepark as you can GET. Many of us vets/old-schoolers/bitter old men, I believe, would like to have a modern polished feature-laden game catered to our niche, so that we don't have to go so far out of our way to get it. But as my OP ponders, I wonder if that is even possible given the current state of the community. It also leads me to wonder if there are even enough of us around that our sub numbers would come even CLOSE to covering the cost of such an endeavor.
Like I ended my OP with, it's simply too much to ask of developers. We will get what we get, and we will play it or we wont.
Either way, we will damn sure be rocking forums with our opinions and nostalgia!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
If I was putting that viewpoint in your mouth, my post would have started with "NOLF:" instead of "MMO vets:"
Instead my post was made in the context of another poster criticizing ESO's gameplay, and so my post was obviously about MMORPG vets generally not you specifically.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's how you play it....I've spend most of my leveling time thus far in Cyrodil, killing mobs, doing the simple tasks (quests) and avoiding groups of enemy players (not all that different than a typical PVP MMO.... When I want a different experience I hop into the world proper to do some story related questing/exploring (finding Shards etc..), I don't find it linear really at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Considering I referred to myself as an MMO vet in the title, and you referenced my tale of a 4 hour journey leading to insta-death, I hardly think "obviously" not about me specifically is a real stretch, unless one's communication skills need a metric fuck-ton of work.
No harm done, just sayin
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
I referred specifically to your 4-hour journey and to delete's ESO criticism.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This experience came in City of Heroes for me. I created my character and did the tutorial. After porting to Atlas Park, I was asked by a few other players if I wanted to team up. I kept declining because I knew very little about the game or my character. I did not want to be detrimental to the other players or worse, get them killed. My first MMORPG, EQ, I did not experience this right off of the bat. I had time to explore and learn my character before anyone asked if I wanted to group up.
The rest, though, eloquently stated
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR